Would you get a lactate threshold & VO2 max test?

seanynova

Just want to throw this out there for discussion, would any of ye pay to have these tested? There are other testing options also, but the test below seem to be the the full package for running related tests:

Lactate threshold test with VO2 In addition to the measurement of blood lactate, this assessment also measures metabolic and ventilatory data during incremental exercise. Gas exchange will be measured using a metabolic cart to determine oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production. Other variables measured include ventilation rate, max heart rate, and VO2max, the maximal amount of oxygen the body can consume to produce energy. $200

More info here from the clinic:
http://www.fortiussport.com/Services/Pages/ExercisePhysiology.aspx

I'm thinking of doing it at some stage, as I'm curious about these things but don't necessarily want to know my limits. I'd like to think with enough training, I can be as fast as a Kenyan

A mod may want to add a poll to the thread to guage responses....

sconhome

Have done on two separate occasions.

Once in Trinity Sports Science lab cost €60 and they did blood testing with finger prick method and gas exchange. More recently in Galway 2 years ago same finger prick method costing €100. Both were coming up with the same results that I was getting from my Polar watch so unlikely to pay for it again considering the watch technology is so close.

HelenAnne

seanynova wrote: »

Just want to throw this out there for discussion, would any of ye pay to have these tested? There are other testing options also, but the test below seem to be the the full package for running related tests:

Lactate threshold test with VO2 In addition to the measurement of blood lactate, this assessment also measures metabolic and ventilatory data during incremental exercise. Gas exchange will be measured using a metabolic cart to determine oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production. Other variables measured include ventilation rate, max heart rate, and VO2max, the maximal amount of oxygen the body can consume to produce energy. $200

More info here from the clinic:
http://www.fortiussport.com/Services/Pages/ExercisePhysiology.aspx

I'm thinking of doing it at some stage, as I'm curious about these things but don't necessarily want to know my limits. I'd like to think with enough training, I can be as fast as a Kenyan

A mod may want to add a poll to the thread to guage responses....

Your limits don't have to limit you TOO much though, I always think of this article whenever I start to think of my disadvantages (not a whippety-runner shape, short legs, asthma etc ).

http://www.runnersworld.com/the-fast-life/why-science-and-running-dont-always-mix

walshb

I did the VO2 test a couple of years ago. I got categorized as superior. According to them I'm a natural!

pconn062

I had a lactate test done last year (not a Vo2 max test), mainly because I wanted to determine accurately heart zones to train off HR. I got mine done with Emmett Dunleavey, was done on a track on a pretty calm day with the pin prick method on the finger. Was very happy with it, and I got exactly what I wanted out of it. Will get another one done in a few weeks if I get a bit more solid training done just to see where I currently am.

Jnealon

pconn062 wrote: »

I had a lactate test done last year (not a Vo2 max test), mainly because I wanted to determine accurately heart zones to train off HR. I got mine done with Emmett Dunleavey, was done on a track on a pretty calm day with the pin prick method on the finger. Was very happy with it, and I got exactly what I wanted out of it. Will get another one done in a few weeks if I get a bit more solid training done just to see where I currently am.

+1

Itziger

It's a personal thing I suppose, like a lot of our training and racing and everything else.

Me, I wouldn't be bothered at this stage. Been running now for 8 years and I know the body fairly well. Still feel like I have a bit of room for improvement at the tender age of 51. Did start from a low base of course!

The tests just seem to be like everything else that is non-running. Do pilates, eat this, drink that, stretch more. stretch less, sleep more, sleep less. Comes a time when it's all noise.

Wanna improve? Train harder, train smarter.* But train.


*Not saying I always do either!

pconn062

Itziger wrote: »

It's a personal thing I suppose, like a lot of our training and racing and everything else.

Me, I wouldn't be bothered at this stage. Been running now for 8 years and I know the body fairly well. Still feel like I have a bit of room for improvement at the tender age of 51. Did start from a low base of course!

The tests just seem to be like everything else that is non-running. Do pilates, eat this, drink that, stretch more. stretch less, sleep more, sleep less. Comes a time when it's all noise.

Wanna improve? Train harder, train smarter.* But train.


*Not saying I always do either!

Not really the same thing to be fair. A lactate test to determine HR zones is a training tool, a bit like a training plan. That's a bit like writing off intervals, long runs, recovery runs as just white noise. Most runners train with HR, and the best way to determine accurate zones is with a LT test. A Vo2 max test I will concede is a bit pointless, but then you could argue anything is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Jakey Rolling

pconn062 wrote:

Most runners train with HR, and the best way to determine accurate zones is with a LT test. A Vo2 max test I will concede is a bit pointless, but then you could argue anything is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

I thought a VO2 Max Test properly conducted would also identify your anaerobic (lactic) threshold - there's a step change in O2 consumption at the aerobic and anaerobic thresholds on the graphs from my own test.

Itziger

pconn062 wrote: »

Not really the same thing to be fair. A lactate test to determine HR zones is a training tool, a bit like a training plan. That's a bit like writing off intervals, long runs, recovery runs as just white noise. Most runners train with HR, and the best way to determine accurate zones is with a LT test. A Vo2 max test I will concede is a bit pointless, but then you could argue anything is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Do they? I'm curious to know if this is so.

68 lost souls

Itziger wrote: »

Do they? I'm curious to know if this is so.

I use a mix of pace and HR. Some days my HR can be raised or lowered depending on hat else I have going on so I will have to slow it down a bit or te odd time speed it up to maintain the same effort. More often than not when I glance at my garmin though it's pace an not HR.

sconhome

pconn062 wrote: »

Most runners train with HR,

Itziger wrote: »

Do they? I'm curious to know if this is so.

I would tend to disagree.

There is a gradual change but I would say the vast majority of runners (at all levels) still train to pace rather than heart rate.

Firedance

pconn062 wrote: »

I had a lactate test done last year (not a Vo2 max test), mainly because I wanted to determine accurately heart zones to train off HR. I got mine done with Emmett Dunleavey, was done on a track on a pretty calm day with the pin prick method on the finger. Was very happy with it, and I got exactly what I wanted out of it. Will get another one done in a few weeks if I get a bit more solid training done just to see where I currently am.

Another +1 to this, I'm definitely getting another one post marathon I'd hope to see drastic changes in the results.

OP I got the test done so I could determine my HR zone and training paces for marathon training. It depends what your looking for, for me it was exactly what I needed and has served me very well.

Myles Splitz

sconhome wrote: »

I would tend to disagree.

There is a gradual change but I would say the vast majority of runners (at all levels) still train to pace rather than heart rate.

I think it depends on the background of the athlete.

I know most athletes coming up through system (athletics club from early age) and most AAI trained coaches will use this type of approach to some extent (sometimes just in early season)

Personally I think it can be very beneficial tool for any athlete (like anything has its pro s and cons) but how its used determines the success.

Personally while i dont fully use it in day to day I have used HR training and my lactate threshold/vo2 max results got this year to make small successful changes to training over the last 12 months

Wild Garlic

Anything to be said for running by feel?

sconhome

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Personally I think it can be very beneficial tool for any athlete (like anything has its pro s and cons) but how its used determines the success.

100% agree.

A lot of the older runners don't believe in HR cos it wasn't around in their day and a lot of the newbies don't use it for fear of over complicating things.

HR is the best way to monitor and measure fitness as a runner. Use it as a marker for where you are at any particular stage of the season. VO2 measurement is part of that system to get the best benefit.

No point in tracking HR if you don't understand the nuances of stress, fatigue and recovery; their effects all apparent when you train by HR.

Myles Splitz

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Anything to be said for running by feel?

Yes and no, problem with that is RPE can be manipulated my mental stubbornness/strength. People can mentally condition themselves to believe they are running easier than they are, similarly other athletes can kid themselves in sessions by not digging deep enough for effort required for prescribed session.

The other issue is basing sessions off feel requires you to be consciously aware of the effort required in that race session and that takes experience of racing regularly enough.

No point in running 1 mile effort not looking at the watch if you have only ever raced the distance once and it was not the target race. Your basically throwing darts in the dark and hoping for the best

adrian522

To those who had this test done were the results any different to what you would have expected?

I'd be of the opinion that I have a pretty good idea of what my training zones should be and I wouldn't expect a test to throw out results much different to what I am doing anyway but I could be wrong on that.

Myles Splitz

adrian522 wrote: »

To those who had this test done were the results any different to what you would have expected?

I'd be of the opinion that I have a pretty good idea of what my training zones should be and I wouldn't expect a test to throw out results much different to what I am doing anyway but I could be wrong on that.

I did test before Christmas. While the HR and rough pace guides were not hugely out the one thing that did become apparent was that my lactate clearance was alot higher than I expected.

I used this info to manipulate my training somewhat from my previous approaches in the past where I am now running my tempo sections at a slightly higher effort and added alot more 10k paced work as this was where my strength was going to be best developed rather than the MP tempo's I had originally planned in my training.

So far it seems to be working as I am in alot better shape than I have been in previous years and effort levels are alot more controlled at higher paces.

Firedance

adrian522 wrote: »

To those who had this test done were the results any different to what you would have expected?

I'd be of the opinion that I have a pretty good idea of what my training zones should be and I wouldn't expect a test to throw out results much different to what I am doing anyway but I could be wrong on that.

Yes, I have to say I learned a lot about myself and what I was capable of from the test. They're not for everyone clearly but if its something someone is interested in then why not?

ultrapercy

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Anything to be said for running by feel?

There is more to be said for science.

Wild Garlic

ultrapercy wrote: »

There is more to be said for science.

In my opinion a good 5k race will give you as good an indicator of training paces/zones than any Lab test. And a lot cheaper too. Rinse and repeat every couple of months.

Firedance

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Anything to be said for running by feel?

I don't disagree with you, it's a valid point - it just happens I'm rubbish at that, something to be worked on for sure!

ultrapercy

Wild Garlic wrote: »

In my opinion a good 5k race will give you as good an indicator of training paces/zones than any Lab test. And a lot cheaper too. Rinse and repeat every couple of months.

Yes it will but it's not entirely accurate. It is cheaper tho. 2 lactate tests a year is enough and they are about 60 euros if you shop around. There is the travel cost also I suppose. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all but most runners get all their training efforts and paces wrong. A lactate test and a training plan based on it is definitely the best way to optomise your training but there are other ways. You learn a lot from it too if the tester is knowledgeable and not just testing by a manual.

averagejoe123

Have been considering getting this done for a while now.

Is there a list of places that do the testing? Can anyone recommend somewhere in Dublin where you can get it done?

Thanks

TFBubendorfer

ultrapercy wrote: »

There is more to be said for science.

Depends.

After years of training mostly by feel I had a lactate test done last year as part of a training camp.

Most other runners had some variations or minor spikes but my own results were absolutely textbook-like and the tester more or less said "keep doing exactly what you've been doing".

In a way that was nice to hear but on the other hand the other guys and girls might have gotten a pointer on how to improve their training; I didn't.

Coffee Fulled Runner

averagejoe123 wrote: »

Have been considering getting this done for a while now.

Is there a list of places that do the testing? Can anyone recommend somewhere in Dublin where you can get it done?

Thanks

http://www.perfectpacing.com/

pconn062

Wild Garlic wrote: »

In my opinion a good 5k race will give you as good an indicator of training paces/zones than any Lab test. And a lot cheaper too. Rinse and repeat every couple of months.

What if it's windy on the day of the 5k, or you're a little run down without realising it and you don't perform as well and run slower than you did 2 months ago? Do you adjust your training based off one 5k race? HR is a much more accurate, stable way of measuring progression. I used to run "by feel", most runs without a Garmin, but after I got the lactate test done it turns out I was running too hard on my easy days (about 20 secs a mile on average). This pace still felt easy to me but the HR data said otherwise and it was impacting my recovery abilities. Each to their own though.

Wild Garlic

pconn062 wrote: »

What if it's windy on the day of the 5k, or you're a little run down without realising it and you don't perform as well and run slower than you did 2 months ago? Do you adjust your training based off one 5k race? HR is a much more accurate, stable way of measuring progression. I used to run "by feel", most runs without a Garmin, but after I got the lactate test done it turns out I was running too hard on my easy days (about 20 secs a mile on average). This pace still felt easy to me but the HR data said otherwise and it was impacting my recovery abilities. Each to their own though.

5k races are a penny a dozen. If conditions or your health are not perfect just do one the following week when conditions are better.
Not saying these tests aren't accurate, just think they are a bit overkill. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Clearlier

Wild Garlic wrote: »

5k races are a penny a dozen. If conditions or your health are not perfect just do one the following week when conditions are better.
Not saying these tests aren't accurate, just think they are a bit overkill. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

If a race over 5k gives you information that allows you to plan your training to improve your performance then great and keep going but I think that Myles nailed it when he said that it can help people who are running too hard or too easy.

When I started trying to run seriously I was coming from a background of rugby training and pushing myself pretty hard. Getting a max wasn't massively difficult. Several years on though with many easy miles under my belt I'm not sure that I'm pushing myself as hard as I possibly can. I think that I am but I do plan to get one of these tests done at some point to confirm it.

The bits I'd be interested in are where my LT is and what my max HR is. It's certainly not essential but it's a useful tool that can help you to train a bit more efficiently.

Krusty_Clown

Wild Garlic wrote: »

In my opinion a good 5k race will give you as good an indicator of training paces/zones than any Lab test. And a lot cheaper too. Rinse and repeat every couple of months.

So, I ran a flat out 5k recently. What does that tell me about my training paces? In other words, how do I calculate my training paces from my result?
Are you suggesting plugging it into a VDOT calculator or Macmillan, and lifting threshold, easy, marathon pace etc from the equivalent results and/or suggested workout paces? This is generally what I do at the moment, though if I'm being honest, I'm also guided (misguided?) by my target/goals.

My watch also calculates Vo2max and LT (Garmin Fenix), but I believe these values to be grossly over-estimated (2:23 marathon anyone? ). I hope to have a physiology test soon, so will hopefully be in a position to share some comparative info.