First car

The Black Oil

Hi,

I'm in my early 30s and I've been thinking of getting a car for the first time. Budget ~ 10-12k, maybe a little more.

It'd be mostly for commuting or around Dublin, sometimes Donegal, Waterford, etc. Not huge mileage each year, by any means. I was thinking of something like a Toyota Yaris, say between 2010-2013, but am open to suggestions.

ba_barabus

Massive choice really. Is there any cars you do or don't like?

Duke O Smiley

A friend of mine has a 151 Yaris (hybrid), its a seriously nice car and well kitted for a small hatchback but I suppose that is subject to spec. Hes a new-ish driver, its very very cheap to run in all respects and it nice/easy to drive. If I was in the market for a new hatchback I would most likely buy one of them.

Look at the Kia Rio around 2013 or so. They have a very long warranty

The Black Oil

ba_barabus wrote: »

Massive choice really. Is there any cars you do or don't like?

The bubble styling of the Nissan Micra isn't really for me, I don't think. Ford Fiesta seems alright, but I've not sat in one. I've a prefer for dealing with a main dealer, tbh, or what do most people use the web for - just research, or actual purchases after a visit and test drive?

Not 100% sure on the insurance situation. I had a quick look last year and it was ~ 1,700, iirc. Mind you, a family member was at one stage going to give me his 30cc moped and the quote back then was 2,300 Irish punts, third party/fire and theft. Hopefully it's not as mad now I'm a little older.

ba_barabus

Have you any no claims bonus?

You might be quiet shocked at the insurance prices you'll be quoted to be honest.

Anyway, cars I'd suggest would be a Clio, Ibiza, Sandero and Swift. All nice cars, with good spec and good reliability. All are available with 1.2 engines and are generally insurance friendly.

The Black Oil

I've not been driving long, about 3 years. I've not been involved in any accidents or made any claims.

ba_barabus

Is that as a named driver on someone else's policy?

Do you have a no claims bonus certificate

stefanovich

The Black Oil wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in my early 30s and I've been thinking of getting a car for the first time. Budget ~ 10-12k, maybe a little more.

It'd be mostly for commuting or around Dublin, sometimes Donegal, Waterford, etc. Not huge mileage each year, by any means. I was thinking of something like a Toyota Yaris, say between 2010-2013, but am open to suggestions.

Yaris is a real girly car dude. Get something a bit more masculine for christ's sake.

ba_barabus

stefanovich wrote: »

Yaris is a real girly car dude. Get something a bit more masculine for christ's sake.

How do you know it's a "dude" babe?

The Black Oil

ba_barabus wrote: »

Is that as a named driver on someone else's policy?

Do you have a no claims bonus certificate

1) Yep.

2) Is this a mere matter of paperwork or..?

stefanovich wrote: »

Yaris is a real girly car dude. Get something a bit more masculine for christ's sake.

I'm an atheist.

ba_barabus

The Black Oil wrote: »

2) Is this a mere matter of paperwork or..?

I'm just wondering if you actually have a certificate for the No claims bonus as insurance companies don't always treat named driving experience the same. I do know not all will actually give you a no claims bonus for it as yours was earned as a named driver which means you really need to check out quotes before going shopping. Just for your own peace of mind as you don't want to find all this out after you buy the car.

Ogogo

OP. If your finances can stretch to it would you be better off to buy a new car and have a new car warranty rather than having the worry about maintaining a 4 to 6 year old car. You mentioned that you liked Fiesta's and Yaris's. You could probably buy either one of those new for €14 -€15K at an entry level spec compared to the 10 - 12 you said you were considering spending.

dogmatix

You can get a brand new basic Sandero for just over 10K, a basic Logan for just over 11K and a base model Sandero Stepway for just under 13K. The cars are not much to look at but are brand new with the usual 3 year warranties.

I was seriously considering the Sandero Stepway at one point until Nissans 4k scrappage scheme came around.

Here is the current Dacia pricelist:
https://www.cdn.daciagroup.com/content/dam/Dacia/IE/Discover-Dacia/Dacia-Price-List.pdf

The Black Oil

I could probably stretch to new, perhaps in the summer. I'd prefer new. Apart from safety equipment, and mostly entry level spec, about the only other thing that interests me is bluetooth.

I'll have to do a fair bit of research, might throw a spreadsheet together in order to help with comparisons in my own head. Tbh, the likes of Kia doesn't particularly interest me as they seem unspeakably dull, but then one could say that about a lot of makes and models, really. And with something like a 7 year warranty, is it all in the execution? Someone mentioned Clios and other European brands. How's reliability with French manufacturer's in the long run? Didn't a certain Top Gear presenter basically say bits start to fall off them after a few years? :pac:

What are the main costs out of the catalogue price? Delivery to dealership? Is VRT included in the dealer's price? I'll get a bit more of a feel for the costs and spec and insurance and work from there.

Thanks for the posts, btw.

ETA - I see Citizens Information has some info, I'll take a look.

grogi

dogmatix wrote: »

/.../ a base model Sandero Stepway for just under 13K. The cars are not much to look at but are brand new with the usual 3 year warranties.

I'm not sure if they are that ugly... Even the cheapest Stepway Alternative looks more than interesting for my old eyes...

TeaBagMania

As others have mentioned I think the biggest hurdle is the insurance. Is it possible to ask a broker what the least expensive car is to insure based on you the driver and your history?

If so it might be the best route for the first year or two while you build that NCB

Pascal101

You can look at cars ireland 2014 nissan note for 10K or 2011 honda insight hybrid for 8k.

colm_mcm

Jap import, great idea for cheap insurance :eek:
Spose you still gotta sell them. Must be quiet if you have to try sell them here..

The Black Oil

I don't mind the Note, though I've never been in one.

Am awaiting feedback from insurance companies.

Marcus-Aurelius

How do, didnt wanna start a new thread and just thought id post here too. Similar situation to the OP.
Looking to buy my first car also, budget of 12-14k, have driven 06 golf for three yrs with car share with my other half in uk.

Looking at a 1.6 2010 golf, highline, 66miles on it for 12,500 or a 2011 Toyota Auris Automatic 1.8 hybrid with just 28k (Uk import, top spec) for 12,200.

Insurance for both us very similar given my age of +25years of age.

I would like an opinion on matter of what to choose. Pain in the t!ts with deciding as the other half has said that the Auris is a girls car but feel that its a great car to turn away from. drives like new.

Head says Auris and heart says golf, not sure what to do! Advice please...

TeaBagMania

yeswecan wrote: »

Automatic

this would kill the deal on the Toyota, id rather the VW with a manual trans

Marcus-Aurelius

TeaBagMania wrote: »

this would kill the deal on the Toyota, id rather the VW with a manual trans

Personal pref or is there any know issue/faults with an auto?

It doesnt bother me, makes life a tad bit easier in that dept, im not a motor head really.

bazz26

yeswecan wrote: »

Personal pref or is there any know issue/faults with an auto?

It doesnt bother me, makes life a tad bit easier in that dept, im not a motor head really.

Automatics have come along way in the last decade or two so don't be put off by people still stuck in the 1980s.

What sort of driving will you be doing? Doing alot of short start/stop journeys or city driving and the hybrid will be more suitable. If your doing long motorway driving then the diesel will do the job too. The hybrid will probably give less trouble over it's lifetime though when you take into account the cost of replacing consumables on the diesel like flywheel, dpf, etc.

Just make sure you are happy with the reduced size of the boot in the hybrid as that is where the batteries are stored.

Marcus-Aurelius

thanks for reply bazz, driving lucan to blanch/castleknock for work. Odd trip down whest is about it tbh.

Yep the boot is pretty small and thats the reason why its for sale!

Thought sticking in my head is that i could do two yrs driving to get to 66k of the golf...

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

Just make sure you are happy with the reduced size of the boot in the hybrid as that is where the batteries are stored.

Auris, hybrid or not, has identical boot of 428 or 530l.

https://assuredusedcars.toyota.ie/forms/download/?brochurefile=Auris.pdf

-- edit

But not for 2011 I guess...

The Black Oil

Had a good scout around Airisde today. I now have a pile of brochures and price lists.

I checked the boot on them all. I think the Note, Corsa, Fiesta and Polo came out best in that department. Some others had more shallow boot space. Rear leg room was generally OK, not great in others. Found the steering wheel aesthetics a little odd in some, mainly because of the buttons. :pac: Liked the radio screen in some of the 4 I've mentioned, but am not sure how standard these are, or if they're extra. Having individual numbers for dialling was in the Fiesta model in showroom. Touch overkill, perhaps. Dial/hangup and menu's enough. Hyundai i20 seemed OK.

Should really have taken a pen and notebook with me. :cool:

TeaBagMania

yeswecan wrote: »

Personal pref or is there any know issue/faults with an auto?

It doesnt bother me, makes life a tad bit easier in that dept, im not a motor head really.

Its personal preference, given the choice ill always take the manual trans

2forjoy

I like VW Polo , was my 2nd car and great buy

emo72

I think 10 to 12k should just about cover your insurance! Back in the 90s I paid around 3k for my first 1 litre Micra. Ah the joys of young motoring.

The Black Oil

Are heated windscreens worth it?

Using the 'build your car' online thingy, prices come out roughly as:

Polo €16,035
Fiesta €18,350 (added bluetooth)
Note €17,195 (added air con)
Corsa €17,490

Probably throw in another 700 for delivery, I guess.

Or, this could be a pipe dream.

grogi

The Black Oil wrote: »

Are heated windscreens worth it?

Using the 'build your car' online thingy, prices come out roughly as:

Polo €16,035
Fiesta €18,350 (added bluetooth)
Note €17,195 (added air con)
Corsa €17,490

Probably throw in another 700 for delivery, I guess.

Or, this could be a pipe dream.

Jazz is €17,395, with AirCon and BT.
Fabia 1.2TSI 90PS, Ambition is €16,865...

You have plenty of options in ~17k range. Note is definitely the biggest, with 2600mm wheelbase.

alan partridge aha

The Black Oil wrote: »

Are heated windscreens worth it?

Using the 'build your car' online thingy, prices come out roughly as:

Polo €16,035
Fiesta €18,350 (added bluetooth)
Note €17,195 (added air con)
Corsa €17,490

Probably throw in another 700 for delivery, I guess.

Or, this could be a pipe dream.

Seeing as its your first car and not trading in, you should get at least €500 off the price of the new car. Play one against the other even when it comes to the same make.

The Black Oil

grogi wrote: »

Jazz is €17,395, with AirCon and BT.
Fabia 1.2TSI 90PS, Ambition is €16,865...

You have plenty of options in ~17k range. Note is definitely the biggest, with 2600mm wheelbase.

I was struck by that on first glance alright.

But, I think in the past 24 hours I've gotten a little too caught up in the excitement of the brochures, spec and everything else...and am realising. The. Sheer. Amount. Of. Money. Rational brain has kicked in. :pac:

The Black Oil

Insurance quotes ranging from €850-€1650. First person was very helpful, another was like a robot.

Expected the latter alright, I'm surprised anything is coming up for under €1,000, though that's just AA online.

Not completely mental...if it ended up somewhere in the middle of those.

The Black Oil

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Seeing as its your first car and not trading in, you should get at least €500 off the price of the new car. Play one against the other even when it comes to the same make.

How cheeky can I be with this? :pac:

Quite interested in the Hyundai i20 Deluxe, I must admit. It helps somewhat that website is easier (imo) to follow and you're getting pretty decent spec. I had a look at one earlier. I saved a few PDFs on my computer of 2-3 configurations each of Polos, Fiestas, Corsas, Note, etc. Was going to do a spreadsheet comparing the costs and so forth.

I'd probably have to travel to see some Toyotas. Maybe the Aygo is too small, so perhaps a Yaris. Probably would end up similar OTR cost to the i20 ~ 18k.

The Black Oil

Some further research...

Generally found the older sales reps were more approachable and willing to give information, the younger ones were a little rushed even though the floor wasn't busy.

Fiesta - cash price pretty good, offered 3k off. I'm just not that sold on the dashboard, to be honest. The air direction thing is too stiff and I don't like it as a big wheel. The multimedia aspect, too many buttons and the numbers I'd probably never use, overload, imo. Aesthetically, that aspect is not for me. I quite like the rest of the car, it seems to have airbags in the rear clothes hooks, presumably they're curtain yolks. Can't recall if that's in addition to side airbags. The SYNC and driver pack, well, I'm not that bothered about remote folding mirrors, tbh. Would go for the Titanium over the Zetec, even simple things like the interior lights felt better. Rear legroom, decent. They did have an ST in the showroom, one can dream. :P Someone I was on holiday with recently said she almost bought a Fiesta, but didn't like the front grill (I think). Not sure that's the main reason why she lost interest and went with an Audi A1 instead.

Corsa - Legroom was decent, slightly narrow boot. Nice enough car, maybe not for me.

Polo, from the spec sheet I guess either the 1.0 5DR, either Fun or Comfortline, possibly the latter. Good boot, again nice enough.

Don't know why, but I was under the impression that the Kia Cee'd and Hyundai i20 are similar on the price side, they're not. So I guess the Kia Rio and i20 are more comparable. Both the Kia and Hyundai felt very similar inside, the finish, etc. Discount on the i20 was 1,500k, for cash.

Nissan Note, rear legroom seemed good and I generally like the spec. Discount of 1,800 offered, but said we'd do better on the day, if I came in to do a deal. I'm kinda interested in things like lane departure warning and such, to see what they're like. Would like a reversing camera too, damn gadgets. :pac:

Still have to see a Clio and Yaris in the flesh.

bazz26

The Kia Ceed is a bigger car than the i20, the Ceed is basically an i30 and priced similarly. The Rio is similar to the i20.

Corsa is old hat, it's a facelift of the car on sale since 2006 and shares a lot with the Fiat Grand Punto or whatever name they call it now.

Mazda2 is worth a look at too, new model was launched late last year, might not be big discounts on them though. Mazda traditionally don't heavily discount their cars.

PLL

I'm just looking for my first car - I'm going for a Yaris with nice and cheap boxymo insurance

The Black Oil

Cool. Which version of the Yaris? Enjoy.

kerten

If you liked note, I would look at honda jazz for sure. better than note imho.

The Black Oil

Why is the Jazz better than the Note?

Honda rep said that Jazz (ES version) is hard to get. Not much of a discount offered, so it'd be 20k. Seemingly, after July you'd be looking at next year due to stock availability. Interior seemed nice. Thinking of the insurance as it's a 1.3, but then the Note is 1.2, so they'd probably be similar for coverage. Mazda is a 1.5, iirc, from what I saw on their website the other day.

Yaris, it could well have been the seating position, but I thought the speed dials, etc, were very low. I did adjust the seat a little and that seemed to help it feel less unnatural. Boot - good enough. Rear legroom, decent. Discount better than the Jazz, not as much as a Fiesta. Probably a safe bet, if predictable and dull. :P The Luna vs Sol, I'm thinking of the latter. The rep seemed to contradict what's on the website, so either I'm reading it wrong, or he's wrong because of all the spec he has to remember!

I guess the next thing do to is to make some sort of short list and think about things from there. All car'd out at this stage. :pac:

colm_mcm

The original Jazz was always an expensive and quirky supermini offering interior space that was a close match (at the time) for cars a class above. They were especially popular with older customers who were downsizing from bigger cars. Build quality was properly Japanese, and short supply second hand always kept them popular, especially in the UK.
As with a lot of Honda stuff recently, the new Jazz is still heavily influenced by the older models, they're not as innovative these days in comparison with other cars but still retain the premium pricing.
It's hard to make a string case for buying a new one.

With the Yaris, you'd really want to be getting the 1.33 - The 1.0 3 cylinder engine is out a long time now, and they've done little to address the main flaw in it which is lack of refinement. Peugeot and VW have proven that it's possible to make 3 cylinder engines that don't sound like lawnmowers, but Irish customers seem to still have the "get as small an engine as possible" lark that was understandable when cc based tax was a thing.
Spec up a Yaris in engine and equipment and it becomes a very expensive little thing with minimal extra second-hand value compared to a basic one.
If you do want a Yaris with decent engine and spec with good resale, then the hybrid is the one to get. It is the most expensive one, but in terms of value for money it's much better than a Luna or Sol 1.33

TeaBagMania

IMO the quality of nissan has really gone downhill the last 15 years; the only Japanese cars I would consider are Toyota and Honda. I’d still take a Kia Soul but I believe the smallest engine available is a 1.6 and there goes your insurance

I really like the Toyota IQ too bad they stopped building them

kerten

The Black Oil wrote: »

Why is the Jazz better than the Note?

Honda rep said that Jazz (ES version) is hard to get. Not much of a discount offered, so it'd be 20k. Seemingly, after July you'd be looking at next year due to stock availability. Interior seemed nice. Thinking of the insurance as it's a 1.3, but then the Note is 1.2, so they'd probably be similar for coverage. Mazda is a 1.5, iirc, from what I saw on their website the other day.

Yaris, it could well have been the seating position, but I thought the speed dials, etc, were very low. I did adjust the seat a little and that seemed to help it feel less unnatural. Boot - good enough. Rear legroom, decent. Discount better than the Jazz, not as much as a Fiesta. Probably a safe bet, if predictable and dull. :P The Luna vs Sol, I'm thinking of the latter. The rep seemed to contradict what's on the website, so either I'm reading it wrong, or he's wrong because of all the spec he has to remember!

I guess the next thing do to is to make some sort of short list and think about things from there. All car'd out at this stage. :pac:

Colm explained build quality aspect of Jazz vs Note. I suggested Jazz based on a post above saying jazz can be bought around 17k as well.

Jazz offers decent spec at entry level and it will have better residuals than note in future. But if there is 3-4k difference for the same package I don't think it is that good.

I would test drive Note at N/M roads to see how refined it is as cost cutting started with new micra/note shows up in refinement most of the time.

The Black Oil

Thanks all, appreciate it. Sounds like the 1.33 is a more mature engine, then? I wouldn't rule out a Hybrid, but I know pretty much nothing about them. Main thing I'm unsure about is, and this is partly searching past threads, is whether it's worthwhile re mpg. Quick search on insurance says the Hybrid's about 200 more than a Sol.

My Dad's on his third Nissan. First was second hand, solid. Second car was new, didn't have any issues apart from an ECU fuse, I think. My sister has a 05 Micra, mostly going grand for years.

If it were to be a Jazz, the entry level SE would do the trick. Sounded like the only discount would be the paint, though.

ETA, insuring the Jazz is about 1,700 AIB. 1,300 with the AA and 970 with Aviva.

The Black Oil

Heh, Carbuyer just posted a review of the Jazz. I was looking at other videos of it the other day and touch screen to control the volume, eh no. That'd drive me nuts. That and, if there's no volume on the steering wheel...perhaps the base model, which features CD/radio rather than touchscreen has volume controls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJKN3538Zmk

Also, I sat in an Auris Hybrid in the showroom just out of curiosity and didn't like the gear stick all that much. Hybrids seem to have 5 year warranties, though.

colm_mcm

the hybrid gear shift is just a little unusual. theye been doing them like that for 12 years now and its not an issue for owners. mre for people that havent driven one yet
the fact that the shifter doesn't stay in the position you put it in is offputting at first but you get used to that after a few spins.

The Black Oil

It was the size of the stick in the Auris Hybrid that made me go wtf. It was tiny, like a kid's play thing. I was wondering if this is standard across the range. I was in a 2012 Prius taxi yesterday and it was similar, but going by Youtube, the Yaris Hybrid stick is of a more typical size.

I was in Spain recently, saw very few Nissans and Toyotas in the countryside, cars were generally older too. Couple of Kias knocking about. Saw quite a few Fiat Multiplas, more than I've seen here, really. Spain was hit hard by the recession, so perhaps people can't afford to upgrade. Cars in the city were generally newer. Was in the back of a Skoda Superb taxi as well, ridiculous amount of rear legroom in it!

Anyway, back on point.

colm_mcm wrote: »

With the Yaris, you'd really want to be getting the 1.33 - The 1.0 3 cylinder engine is out a long time now, and they've done little to address the main flaw in it which is lack of refinement. Peugeot and VW have proven that it's possible to make 3 cylinder engines that don't sound like lawnmowers, but Irish customers seem to still have the "get as small an engine as possible" lark that was understandable when cc based tax was a thing.
Spec up a Yaris in engine and equipment and it becomes a very expensive little thing with minimal extra second-hand value compared to a basic one.
If you do want a Yaris with decent engine and spec with good resale, then the hybrid is the one to get. It is the most expensive one, but in terms of value for money it's much better than a Luna or Sol 1.33

Noticed that alight. Pretty strongly interested in the Yaris Hybrid. I'm considering that as plan A. Plan B the Note or the Jazz (well, plan C), the latter might be harder to source given stock availability. I think I had ruled our the Yaris Hybrid at first owing to misreading the price list and thinking it was north of 20K.

Or this could all be a delusion. Procrastinator and decision-off-putterer.

One other thing, in relation to a new purchase, I only have experience of seeing parents transfer insurance on trade ins and there's usually talk of a logbook that goes to Shannon, iirc. If I purchase new, does this exist through the dealer, or do I register tax online and wait for it to arrive? Once I purchase an insurance policy and have a paper trail whilst awaiting for the discs, I'm OK ish if I'm stopped?

grogi

colm_mcm wrote: »

the hybrid gear shift is just a little unusual. theye been doing them like that for 12 years now and its not an issue for owners. mre for people that havent driven one yet
the fact that the shifter doesn't stay in the position you put it in is offputting at first but you get used to that after a few spins.

There is a reason (kind-off) for that: switching between B and D modes can be done when in motion.

colm_mcm

you'd very rarely use B mode. it's just induces engine braking.
I you were driving down a very long steep road and didn't want to wear the brakes out. I don't think you'd use it in Ireland that much. it doesn't dramatically change the way the car drives so engaging it on normal use wouldn't have much of an effect apart from your fuel consumption.

the system is clever anyway. you wouldn't be able to accidentally go into reverse while on the move or anything.

The Black Oil

3 months on. No ordering or buying done. I'm running the Dublin marathon later this year, might order after that as a reward to myself, but I'm growing impatient. :pac: Nissan bloke phoned me recently asking if I was still looking for a car.

I've been a passenger in a 05 Micra on the motorway, that's not fun and I can't imagine it's much better behind the wheel, when going for more than an hour. I've driven a Punto for about 2.5 hours on the motorway and you do feel it afterwards. Would a Yaris Hybrid be better on the comfort aspect for longer drives?

Also, as named driver only, I can't really go for a test drive, I guess.