Mad cagers out in full force yesterday

Tzardine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Having read the story of the young lad killed yesterday I thought I would post this. Yesterday I had two cars almost hit me. Both are in the short clip below.

It really bugs me the way people just plain dont look behind them.

Cagers gonna cage I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uHKGtODPx4

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

You ok hun?

There's nothing that bad in there. The micra should've indicated, but you were close enough to their arse anyway, so you still probably would've been giving out.

The other one on the motorway had their head in the clouds alright, but you made sure everyone else knew about it with the hand thrown up to the sky, "look what I've to deal with" as if you've never made a mistake in your life.

If it's sympathy you're after then lose the attitude and don't be calling all car drivers cagers just because you'd a little boo-boo where no-one was even hurt.

Stephenc66

The second incident was so close, and the driver of that car had lots of time to see you driver just not aware of their surroundings you were very lucky.

Not a biker and in this case I reckon the driver just wasn't looking at all but has any one else noticed that it would appear that on motorways/dual carriageways an indicator is no longer seen as a signal of intent but as a "right of way"?

Tzardine

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

You ok hun?

There's nothing that bad in there. The micra should've indicated, but you were close enough to their arse anyway, so you still probably would've been giving out.

The other one on the motorway had their head in the clouds alright, but you made sure everyone else knew about it with the hand thrown up to the sky, "look what I've to deal with" as if you've never made a mistake in your life.

If it's sympathy you're after then lose the attitude and don't be calling all car drivers cagers just because you'd a little boo-boo where no-one was even hurt.

I think its clear who has the attitude mate.

And perhaps you are a blind cager yourself (All car drivers are cagers by the very definition) as you completely missed the fact that there is a no right turn sign for the micra.

I wonder if all your 3000+ posts are as insightful. Its incidents like these two that kill bikers. End of story.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Ok. Well I hope you find the validation that you're seeking to repair your tortured soul. God speed.

Tzardine

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Ok. Well I hope you find the validation that you're seeking to repair your tortured soul. God speed.

Just as I suspected , another great contribution.

Hurry along back to AH. I am sure they miss your clever wit.

XsApollo

Those incidents are easily avoidable for you.

Riding up the micras ass,
back off and you won't have a problem.
Traffic is moving and your stuck on his ass looking to overtake.

Also the second clip you can see whats gonna happen but make no effort to back off or move over to right more....just on the off chance they don't here you crying and smash into you.

Ride like nobody can see you.
Don't ride like everybody should see you. :-)

HardenendMan

Second one is fair enough, not your fault, but where was your escape route? Lesson learned: always have an escape route.

First one, I have to say was totally avoidable. I am always assuming that the bell end will turn right and not be that close in case they do. Lesson learned: people's stupidity is predictable.

Of course technically you are not to blame at all for both. But the aim of the game is survival. You need to realise how to affect these types of situations to minimise the risk.

Not having a go, just trying to help. Ride safe.

Tzardine

XsApollo wrote: »

Those incidents are easily avoidable for you.

Riding up the micras ass,
back off and you won't have a problem.
Traffic is moving and your stuck on his ass looking to overtake.

Also the second clip you can see whats gonna happen but make no effort to back off or move over to right more....just on the off chance they don't here you crying and smash into you.

Ride like nobody can see you.
Don't ride like everybody should see you. :-)

Granted it looks like I am close to the Micra. In reality I am not really. Wide angle lens on the gopro gives the effect.

And on the second clip. Its not obvious that she was going to come into lane 3, and when she did I was already along side her, regardless , I have right of way. Completely her fault if there was an accident.

Believe me, at 100kph I would have stayed out of her way had I known she was going to blindly changed lanes. Thats a life changing accident if it happens.

kirving

There's no point being right if you're dead.

In both cases the car driver was in the wrong as in the case of most bike/car accidents, but in both cases, you have put yourself in that dangerous position.

In the second case, I would say deliberately. You moved towards the left of your lane and into the drivers blindspot, saw the manoeuvre about to take place, beeped, and kept going, before beeping again.

You see the same kind of thing from cyclists with cameras, putting themselves into precarious positions in the hope of catching out a driver, and while they too may have the law on their side, physics is on the side of the car driver.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

XsApollo

Tzardine wrote: »

Granted it looks like I am close to the Micra. In reality I am not really. Wide angle lens on the gopro gives the effect.

And on the second clip. Its not obvious that she was going to come into lane 3, and when she did I was already along side her, regardless , I have right of way. Completely her fault if there was an accident.

Believe me, at 100kph I would have stayed out of her way had I known she was going to blindly changed lanes. Thats a life changing accident if it happens.

I understand you have right of way and your not wrong.
It Won't help you when they smash into you.
The micra you were in the wrong position on the road.
Why are you there if traffic is moving?
I was never in that position behind a car until I made eye contact with the driver.

The second clip you had your finger on the horn getting ready.

Be under the assumption that these fools don't know your there and both those incidents wouldn't have happened.

Tzardine

Kevin Irving wrote: »

IYou moved towards the left of your lane and into the drivers blindspot, saw the manoeuvre about to take place, beeped, and kept going, before beeping again.
r.

Thats not actually the case. If you look at the clip again you will see that overtake the BMW and am coming back into lane 2. You can see I indicate and shoulder check.

The car starts to move into the lane too so I bail out of the move and go back into lane 3. The beep is to let her know I am there. She then moves into lane 3 anyway. If you look at the road markings you will see how far to the right I go.

twowheelsonly

First one I'd have to give you the blame unfortunately and if there had been an accident and you showed that footage I reckon an insurance company would be looking to apportion a fair share of the blame to you as well. Overtaking (or attempting to) on a junction is rarely a good idea. 6th sense should have given you an idea that was going to happen anyway.

Second one is 100% her fault. I'd love to know where she was going as the 'next car up' was miles away so she seemed to be planning her overtaking a bit early !!

I'm of the opinion that car drivers don't see bikes basically because they're not looking for them. It's a bit like if I hand you a photo with 100 people and ask you how many are wearing blue jumpers you'll tell me 23 or whatever. If I take the photo off you then and ask you how many were wearing red most likely you won't be able to tell me - because you weren't looking for them !!
When car drivers look to see if there's 'anything' coming you can translate that to 'any cars/trucks/busses coming. Bikes never seem to enter the equation. When bikers look to see if there's 'anything' coming it literally means anything... big, small, fast or slow purely because that's the way bikers tend to think. Everything is a danger and once you recognise that and drive defensively it should keep you safe the majority of the time.

HardenendMan

Tis one of those things where the details can be argued ad naseum. You are in the right OP, the judge will side with you.

But if you don't accept that you wouldn't be in those situations with better road craft on YOUR part then you will keep getting in them. You are the loser in all accidents at the end of the day.

Tzardine

twowheelsonly wrote: »

First one I'd have to give you the blame unfortunately and if there had been an accident and you showed that footage I reckon an insurance company would be looking to apportion a fair share of the blame to you as well.

As there is no right turn at that junction I dont think I would need to worry about any blame coming my way.

I do take your points and appreciate the advice though.

HardenendMan

Tzardine wrote: »

As there is no right turn at that junction I dont think I would need to worry about any blame coming my way.

I do take your points and appreciate the advice though.

There is a right turn though. There is no wall blocking the way for the right turn. There are no land mines. If it can go wrong, it will. Predict the illegal right turn and your blood pressure will be lower on the bike :-)

prunudo

The go pro's while good give a slightly distorted view. Easy saying after the event but the micra looked to be nervous/not concentrating/liable to do something stupid.
The second one was a clear case of let's cross 2 lanes of traffic for no apparent reason which seems to be rife along any 3 lane road these days.
People need to start paying attention while they're driving and get their heads out of their arses. More worried about what's happening on fb than the life or death consequences in front of them.

Cuddlesworth

You have a real problem, your first instinct is to lay on the horn and not take evasive action. Your going to get pancaked some day and that horn isn't going to do **** for you.

eezipc

I have a car and bike and in my opinion the first "incident" you are both at fault. You are on the wrong side of the road. You have to expect someone will do something like that.
The second one is not your fault but I don't think there was any intent on the driver. Just not paying attention.

Also, someone mentioned earlier, I have noticed a few times that if people put on their indicator they think it's a right of way. I've had two fingers shown to me once when someone on a motorway put on their indicator on the left lane while I was beside them and they could not get into my lane.

Cienciano

Funny to see, but don't become one of those guys that puts near misses onto his youtube channel, like those knobend cyclists!

stewygriffin

Think a few IBT lessons and road positioning lessons with an instructor wouldnt go astray here.:pac:

gerrowadat

First one, yeah, my first reaction was "Overtaking in a junction is almost always bad craic.". Stupid turn from them, but I'd rather be wrong and alive than right and dead.

Second one was bananas and tbh I probably would jammed on, which at that speed is dangerous enough. Or poured it on to get ahead. I'd never rely on the horn though, it's more of an after the fact thing.

I think in both cases you're getting a bit of flak because in both cases you're not conforming to the "I am invisible on a road full of idiots" school of thought. First clip, driver's an idiot, assume they'll do anything including breaking a red or going right. Second clip, driver's an idiot and you're relying on your horn to prevent the lane change completing.

I realise this isn't why you posted the video, but driving critique is a national pastime for bikers :-)

blu3r0ri0n

She was obviously testing you and looks like you passed with a big thumbs up!

Max Headroom

I think a lot of Gopro bikers think that they are in some way better protected than a non user and will always get the backing of other bikers even when they feel they're being shat on...
IMO..if you had hit the micra you'd be 100% wrong,wrong side of road,overtaking at a junction and mostly because you really should have used common sense..
Second one, it was clear from the vid that she didn't know where she was going,her view of you was probably impaired as you passed the bmw. .as said previously she wasn't looking for a bike..she genuinely didn't see you until it was too late..
I witnessed exactly the same incident but with a car in your position, luckily the guy had the grass verge before the crash barrier to escape to...frightening to see at speed..
BTW..just say car drivers instead of "cagers".....it's more adult..;)

Pugzilla

Second incident is entirely the cager's fault, they rarely check their blind spots.
Most cage drivers don't know what a 'blind spot' even is.

Tzardine

Max Headroom wrote: »

BTW..just say car drivers instead of "cagers".....it's more adult..;)

I prefer cagers thanks.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Max Headroom wrote: »

BTW..just say car drivers instead of "cagers".....it's more adult..;)

For sure.

''Cagers'' or 'Cage' to describe a car sounds fucking retarded.

Pugzilla

Buswald

doctorchopper

Tzardine wrote: »

Granted it looks like I am close to the Micra. In reality I am not really. Wide angle lens on the gopro gives the effect.

And on the second clip. Its not obvious that she was going to come into lane 3, and when she did I was already along side her, regardless , I have right of way. Completely her fault if there was an accident.

Believe me, at 100kph I would have stayed out of her way had I known she was going to blindly changed lanes. Thats a life changing accident if it happens.

Plus she had no reason at all to be going into the middle lane let alone into the passing lane, the cars in front of her were miles away

First incident you should have been further back, asking for trouble even if car is at fault.

Second incident is pure madness, obviously car is completely at fault but why didn't you brake when you saw them moving in or hit the gas and get yourself out of the situation.

As someone else mentioned first reaction is the horn, when it should be getting out of the situation. that's not good IMO.

listermint

Jackson Alive Cemetery wrote: »

First incident you should have been further back, asking for trouble even if car is at fault.

Second incident is pure madness, obviously car is completely at fault but why didn't you brake when you saw them moving in or hit the gas and get yourself out of the situation.

As someone else mentioned first reaction is the horn, when it should be getting out of the situation. that's not good IMO.

My first reaction is to pull the sawn-off from the saddle back .

Picture terminator 2

Tzardine

Jackson Alive Cemetery wrote: »

First incident you should have been further back, asking for trouble even if car is at fault.

Second incident is pure madness, obviously car is completely at fault but why didn't you brake when you saw them moving in or hit the gas and get yourself out of the situation.

As someone else mentioned first reaction is the horn, when it should be getting out of the situation. that's not good IMO.

I was well able to avoid her. She was moving into the lane slowly. I had plenty of time and space to get out of her way if I needed to.

stewygriffin

Sorry but the OP has a poor biking attitude and has poor road positioning skills and sense.
He doesnt seem to take any notice,no matter how many people here tell him that he has a responsibility aswell,and has poor riding and road positioning skills,especially coming up to junctions.:(
A lesson or 2 with an IBT instructor would open up his eyes and mind alot.

BKtje

I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment, you weren't expecting their stupidity in the first one though the second one i have no idea wtf the car was doing. I always say to myself, there's no point being in the right if I'm dead.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever used the horn on my bike (at least on purpose, hit it by accident sometimes and generally scare the **** out of myself), either I've avoided the situation by reading their stupidity in advance or I'm actively getting out of the way. I'm tempted to use it afterwards of course but most people already know that they are an idiot without me having to tell them.

Pugzilla

OP, you should have let the second car crash into you. You had a go pro recording so you would have been a 100% safe.

twowheelsonly

Tzardine wrote: »

As there is no right turn at that junction I dont think I would need to worry about any blame coming my way.

I do take your points and appreciate the advice though.

I wouldn't bet on it. If I was behind you I would have thought that you were going to turn right as well judging by your road positioning and the fact that you had your indicator on until 2 and a half seconds before the incident. It's quite possible that the driver in front thought the same if they had glanced and seen you there with your indicator on.

BTW, I don't know that junction but at a guess I'd say they're not the first person to swing right there !!!!

Rackstar

Keep putting yourself in positions where mad cagers can jeopardise your life. You're shooting some great stuff.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Rackstar wrote: »

Keep putting yourself in positions where mad cagers can jeopardise your life. You're shooting some great stuff.

OUCH :P

Tzardine

Rackstar wrote: »

Keep putting yourself in positions where mad cagers can jeopardise your life. You're shooting some great stuff.

Will do. Thanks for the advice.

Would you like to join my mailing list.

Max Headroom

Self preservation is what its all about....

no BS but ,took a spin up to cotters yesterday for a free feed :P..and on the way up a young one came onto the m50 at tallaght (i think)but instead of staying in her lane ,she cut across the median strip and nearly into the side of a fcuking skip lorry....be careful out there...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Max Headroom wrote: »

Self preservation is what its all about....

no BS but ,took a spin up to cotters yesterday for a free feed :P..and on the way up a young one came onto the m50 at tallaght (i think)but instead of staying in her lane ,she cut across the median strip and nearly into the side of a fcuking skip lorry....be careful out there...

She probably needed to take a dump

Hotblack Desiato

BKtje wrote: »

you weren't expecting their stupidity in the first one

Entirely predictable though, and a lot of drivers think not indicating means no-one will notice their illegal turn :rolleyes:

though the second one i have no idea wtf the car was doing.

Just doing the normal Irish driver thing, keep as far to the right as possible at all times, never mind about driving on the left, the British imposed that on us :pac:

As an aside, I don't think I've ever used the horn on my bike

Not good. There are a lot of occasions where the horn is a very useful warning of your presence before the other driver does something stupid, honking after they've started is less useful as even if they hear you they might hit you before they react.

Max Headroom wrote: »

no BS but ,took a spin up to cotters yesterday for a free feed :P..and on the way up a young one came onto the m50 at tallaght (i think)but instead of staying in her lane ,she cut across the median strip and nearly into the side of a fcuking skip lorry....be careful out there...

Good trick that, especially as the median strip has either a concrete or steel barrier in it

CJhaughey

Remember the rule, cars and trucks have the right of weight.

Max Headroom

[QUOTE=Hotblack




Good trick that, especially as the median strip has either a concrete or steel barrier in it [/QUOTE]



Not so in this case...;)

BKtje

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not good. There are a lot of occasions where the horn is a very useful warning of your presence before the other driver does something stupid, honking after they've started is less useful as even if they hear you they might hit you before they react.

I get what you're saying but in order for the horn to be useful as a warning, you'd need to use it almost constantly before attempting a manoeuvre. I prefer to not put myself in a situation where it's needed in the first place by waiting till i'm sure to be seen or just not doing anything risky . All that said, drivers here (and on the continent in general) are much more used to seeing and checking for two wheels as the number of motorbikes and scooters are extremely high.

Hotblack Desiato

Max Headroom wrote: »

Not so in this case...;)

That's not a median strip aka central reservation.

BKtje wrote: »

I get what you're saying but in order for the horn to be useful as a warning, you'd need to use it almost constantly before attempting a manoeuvre. I prefer to not put myself in a situation where it's needed in the first place by waiting till i'm sure to be seen or just not doing anything risky.

OK, car stopped at a minor road and you are on the major road, the driver is starting to creep forward while looking the other way, don't you think you should warn them of your presence before they actually pull out? You can't stop at every junction and wait to be seen...

All that said, drivers here (and on the continent in general) are much more used to seeing and checking for two wheels as the number of motorbikes and scooters are extremely high.

Yeah, no doubt that said, there's approx. 1 million riders in the UK but I don't think their drivers are better in general around bikes than here.

BKtje

I'm not saying that i'd never use the horn under any circumstances but just i find in most cases awareness or evasion are better tools.

If i spot a car creeping forward it's generally under two possible scenarios. The first is that I'm far enough away that they'll see me in time and stop or finish their manoeuvre. If the latter I'll be ready for it and have already slowed down enough or be ready to break if needed. The other option is that I am so close that I need to react instantly in which case I'm not going to waste time hitting the horn but rather be trying to get out of danger by whichever method I feel in that instant to be most successful.

I generally find that people here notice a bike as often as a car. Where people are less likely to notice a bike is on motorways where a bike is easier to be in a blind spot than a car which is why I take the utmost care to not drive in blind spots and to be in and out as quickly as possible.

I'm not saying my way is better or worse but it's what I've found works for me. Five years, all seasons, on a bike now and very very few incidents. The ones that may have been dangerous turned into non events by my driving methods. When I hear people speak of near misses on a constant basis I sometimes wonder if they're extremely unlucky or bring it on themselves by their driving habits.

At the end of the day if doesn't matter how you got there, just that you did safely.

Cuddlesworth

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not good. There are a lot of occasions where the horn is a very useful warning of your presence before the other driver does something stupid, honking after they've started is less useful as even if they hear you they might hit you before they react.

Pretty much, she could have easily swerved into him out of fright.

There was a thread on the motors forum from CINO where he showed a video of a oncoming car on the wrong side of the road belting towards him overtaking. The whole situation was messed up but what struck me the most, was for a good second he did nothing but sit on the horn. The car is on the wrong side of the road, at speed. Wtf was the horn going to do?

In this case, loads of things could have happened but the best and immediate option should have been to break or accelerate. He can lay on the horn after starts the process of getting out of the situation.

sportloto86

If car drivers are cagers would motorbike drivers be framers?
Just a thought.
Anyway, I think that OP was expecting more support here but you lot giving him hard time.
But I have to agree with Jeremy Clarkson and his cycling awareness ad that righteousness does not guarantee safety.

zubair

You can't give out about drivers not seeing you if you're not wearing hi viz.

Mesrine65

zubair wrote: »

You can't give out about drivers not seeing you if you're not wearing hi viz.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/jan/10/cycling-high-visibility-safe-fluorescent

http://hfs.sagepub.com/content/54/1/14