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WWE dropping the ball

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  • 07-03-2016 11:22am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭


    Im not sure if its ok to start a discussion on this or if it has been done before but it is something that came to mind last night while watching the 2000 Royal Rumble. What or who in your mind was the biggest case of WWF/E dropping the ball?

    The reason i ask is because while watching last night i only remembered it was the debut of Taz(z) when Kurt came to the ring to cut his promo. Back then i was a huge ECW fan and was convinced Taz would reign supreme in the WWF for years but instead he was just passed around before finally settling on a spot beside Maggle Cole on Smackdown.

    There are so many cases like this, obviously not everyone i loved could get pushed as much as i wanted but characters like Raven should definitely have been treated better than he was, Lance Storm was one of the best technical wrestlers around and was landed with that horrible ''boring'' gimmick and that was the end for him.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Dolph Ziggler - Twice.

    When he became World Heavyweight Champion, suffered a concussion, they had a ready made storyline in him getting his redemption and his title back, instead he disappeared into Midcard limbo.

    Flash forward to Survivor Series and Team Cena vs. The Authority, Ziggler scores the deciding pinfall and is megaover as a result. End result, midcard limbo trading wins and losses that mean nothing.

    Ziggler can get over when they push him, has a good look and can go in the ring. Reminds me of Curt Henning.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    Damien Sandow, he was given absolute sh***, and still turned it into gold.
    For at least six months he was the 2nd most over guy in the company behind DB.
    Even in the recent Rumble pre-show he was super-over.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    Loughc wrote: »
    Dolph Ziggler - Twice.

    When he became World Heavyweight Champion, suffered a concussion, they had a ready made storyline in him getting his redemption and his title back, instead he disappeared into Midcard limbo.

    Flash forward to Survivor Series and Team Cena vs. The Authority, Ziggler scores the deciding pinfall and is megaover as a result. End result, midcard limbo trading wins and losses that mean nothing.

    Ziggler can get over when they push him, has a good look and can go in the ring. Reminds me of Curt Henning.

    Oh god yes. Is there any reason why they keep sh*tting on him from a height? He has everything needed to be a top star in the company but instead we get force fed Roman every week.

    Cesaro is another one that comes to mind, he was super over before he won the Andre battle royal, hooked up with Heyman and that was the end of him. It was strange to see someone going downhill like that after linking up with Paul E.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    Damien Sandow, he was given absolute sh***, and still turned it into gold.
    For at least six months he was the 2nd most over guy in the company behind DB.
    Even in the recent Rumble pre-show he was super-over.

    I loved his stuff with Miz, my wife couldnt understand why i would be proper laughing out loud at his work when they were tagging together.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Oh god yes. Is there any reason why they keep sh*tting on him from a height? He has everything needed to be a top star in the company but instead we get force fed Roman every week.

    It's a mixture of Vince not liking the smaller guys he's convinced they're more injury prone so when Ziggler got the concussion he was like I told you so... And then there's Ziggler who has a habit of trashing the WWE on social media when he feels like he's been overlooked.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭Kankan14


    Oh god yes. Is there any reason why they keep sh*tting on him from a height? He has everything needed to be a top star in the company but instead we get force fed Roman every week.

    Cesaro is another one that comes to mind, he was super over before he won the Andre battle royal, hooked up with Heyman and that was the end of him. It was strange to see someone going downhill like that after linking up with Paul E.

    Ziggler was too lippy for his own good iirc. So creative decided to take him down a peg or two by stuffing him in midcard limbo.

    As for cesaro, he was kind of an afterthought in his pairing with heyman.
    Heyman said on a samnotsam show he only got paired with cesaro to big up brock's 1 in 21-1!

    Heyman explains it better here https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=TkL9mN353gs

    Cant embed that as on my phone but only 4 mins long and def worth viewing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    Loughc wrote: »
    It's a mixture of Vince not liking the smaller guys he's convinced they're more injury prone so when Ziggler got the concussion he was like I told you so... And then there's Ziggler who has a habit of trashing the WWE on social media when he feels like he's been overlooked.

    Ziggler always strikes me as a big dude.

    Its a shame that there is no competition for WWE anymore, guys like Punk and Ziggler would have been able to go to a competitor and show WWE just what they are missing out on by forcing wrestlers on to the fans that we have no interest in watching.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    Kankan14 wrote: »
    Ziggler was too lippy for his own good iirc. So creative decided to take him down a peg or two by stuffing him in midcard limbo.

    As for cesaro, he was kind of an afterthought in his pairing with heyman.
    Heyman said on a samnotsam show he only got paired with cesaro to big up brock's 1 in 21-1!

    Heyman explains it better here https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=TkL9mN353gs

    Cant embed that as on my phone but only 4 mins long and def worth viewing.

    Wow, thats a bit sh*t on Cesaro. He didnt need to hook up with Heyman solely for that reason. He had gotten himself over on his own. They could have given that spot to anyone on the roster if it was just being used as a Brock promotional spot.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Wow, thats a bit sh*t on Cesaro. He didnt need to hook up with Heyman solely for that reason. He had gotten himself over on his own. They could have given that spot to anyone on the roster if it was just being used as a Brock promotional spot.

    Ideally, Cesaro would have been able to benefit from the heat that was on Brock and Heyman; Heyman would have pivoted the heat in a "MY client Brock Lesnar beat Undertaker...and Cesaro is twice as good as Brock was!"

    The issue was that Heyman only ever talked about Brock, and Cesaro never got much to do in terms of a feud to capitalize on it :/ As with so many ideas in WWE, the original idea behind it was solid, but the execution was ****ed up.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators Posts: 24,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Angron


    I think the worst part of the Cesaro thing was, at the time, all the pieces were in place for a face turn, people wanted to cheer for Cesaro. Instead we got a Swagger face turn because... I don't even know.


    Also, it's not really dropping the ball but more refusing to acknowledge that the ball was there in the first place, but it took them far, far too long to capitalise on the popularity of Daniel Bryan.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    Been mentioned countless times but the Invasion angle was so badly handled on all fronts, such a massively missed opportunity.

    Big Show. When he debuted he was hugely over and a recognisable star. He could really move for a big guy and wasn't a fat mess like Viscera. He could / should have been the monster heel for years to instead he kinda just fizzled out a couple of months into his contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,893 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Wasn't it Cena that they used to try and take all the popularity away from Ziggler after Survivor Series?

    I think Barrett is another one they've dropped the ball with. His injuries haven't helped but even when he' not injured, he doesn't get to do much. You just have to look at LoN and how even though he's a member, any tag teams are usually made up of the other 3 guys and he mightn't even be at ringside.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Angron wrote: »
    Also, it's not really dropping the ball but more refusing to acknowledge that the ball was there in the first place, but it took them far, far too long to capitalise on the popularity of Daniel Bryan.

    Was the one that jumped to mind, though I know the response would be "But he still got a few titles, Mania match, etc".

    They fought that so, so hard, and its incredible the crowd support got stronger the worse they treated him, when so many haven't had the same reaction to the same circumstances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,893 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    And now they retroactively made it seem like it was really long storyline where the Authority was keeping Bryan down


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,030 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Bray Wyatt keeps getting put into promising fueds buts they always get boring and he always loses.

    Ryback will never be the megastar they should of brought goldberg in as his mentor and carry on the goldberg legacy.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Ryback will never be the megastar they should of brought goldberg in as his mentor and carry on the goldberg legacy.

    Worked out well for Ric Flair and The Miz.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators Posts: 24,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Angron


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Was the one that jumped to mind, though I know the response would be "But he still got a few titles, Mania match, etc".

    They fought that so, so hard, and its incredible the crowd support got stronger the worse they treated him, when so many haven't had the same reaction to the same circumstances.

    Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would really count because he did eventually get there, but it's just that it took them so long that I reckoned it was worth a mention.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Ryback was white hot when he was feuding with punk for the title. Always felt they dropped the ball with him losing to punk at hell in a cell and then turning him heel to face cena


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Kolido


    The man they call VADER could have been booked much better during his WWf run. He had great agility for a big guy. Could have been a monster heel if booked right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Was the one that jumped to mind, though I know the response would be "But he still got a few titles, Mania match, etc".

    They fought that so, so hard, and its incredible the crowd support got stronger the worse they treated him, when so many haven't had the same reaction to the same circumstances.

    WWE wasted so sooo much time with Bryan. He could been so much bigger had they went with the flow instead of fighting it.

    His Ring of Honor work tells you he can be very versatile character wise, whether the gutsy underdog or the smaller super confident wrestler, to the over confident champion, he was capable of so much. He turned so much of WWE creative half assed ideas and turned them into gold (TEAM HELL NO for example). He could have been so much more.

    I'm just glad he had his WM30 moment, he deserved it.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Bray Wyatt keeps getting put into promising fueds buts they always get boring and he always loses.

    Ryback will never be the megastar they should of brought goldberg in as his mentor and carry on the goldberg legacy.

    Thats down to Bray himself though. There is only so many times we can hear the exact same rambling promo that actually goes nowhere.

    Add that to the fact that he never gets a win from his big feuds and they have seriously damaged him for the forseeable future, him and the Wyatt Family should be running all over Raw and Smackdown absolutely destroying people but no, instead they are losing to Kane, Big Show and Ryback on PPV instead.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,674 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Thats down to Bray himself though. There is only so many times we can hear the exact same rambling promo that actually goes nowhere.

    Add that to the fact that he never gets a win from his big feuds and they have seriously damaged him for the forseeable future, him and the Wyatt Family should be running all over Raw and Smackdown absolutely destroying people but no, instead they are losing to Kane, Big Show and Ryback on PPV instead.

    I wouldn't necessarily blame him. Although I would imagine he is given a bit more free range with his promos than some others I'm sure they would go somewhere if they gave his character some direction and as you said a big win here or there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Blue_Dabadee


    Zack Ryder. He got over with the fans through the powers of social media, but WWE buried him 6 feet under with his feud with Kane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Loughc wrote: »
    Dolph Ziggler - Twice.

    When he became World Heavyweight Champion, suffered a concussion, they had a ready made storyline in him getting his redemption and his title back, instead he disappeared into Midcard limbo.

    Flash forward to Survivor Series and Team Cena vs. The Authority, Ziggler scores the deciding pinfall and is megaover as a result. End result, midcard limbo trading wins and losses that mean nothing.

    Ziggler can get over when they push him, has a good look and can go in the ring. Reminds me of Curt Henning.

    If you look up midcarder you'd see a picture of Dolph Ziggler. Everything from his name to his look to his boring promos to his mediocre offence to his awful flop like a fish selling is midcard, at best. Ziggler is in his correct position right now. Back in 1997, Ahmed Johnson was insanely popular too. Should he have been main eventing? Not a chance. Just because you are popular doesn't mean you have to be pushed. You need more than just being popular, Daniel Bryan for example ticked a lot of the other boxes too.
    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Bray Wyatt keeps getting put into promising fueds buts they always get boring and he always loses.

    Ryback will never be the megastar they should of brought goldberg in as his mentor and carry on the goldberg legacy.

    They get boring because Wyatt does the exact same long rambling promo every week and it makes people lose interest. If you're going to speak the way he does, you better be saying something interesting. He never does hence why nobody cares about him. His feuds are boring because of him.

    As for Ryback, the guy was and still is dreadful. At one point it seemed like he was injuring an actual star every second week. Why the hell would you push him if he is constantly injuring your top guys?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,985 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Razor Ramon should have been world champion.

    Great look, character and charisma, and a solid worker too.

    Unfortunately Vince took one look at Diesel and strapped the rocket to him.

    Outside of WWE, obviously Bret in WCW is of the worst use of talents ever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭brianregan09


    Summer of Punk has got to be the biggest instance of WWE dropping the ball a monster storyline and they were getting traction on real media and they brought Punk back a week later thus killing it then for some reason dragged Triple H and Kevin Nash into it bizzare


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Thats down to Bray himself though. There is only so many times we can hear the exact same rambling promo that actually goes nowhere.

    Add that to the fact that he never gets a win from his big feuds and they have seriously damaged him for the forseeable future, him and the Wyatt Family should be running all over Raw and Smackdown absolutely destroying people but no, instead they are losing to Kane, Big Show and Ryback on PPV instead.

    And I think Bray will be saying "FOLLOW THE BUZZARRRRRDS!!" for quite a while to come, too, and Luke Harper will be making tweaker faces to the camera until his release. Bray's a victim of this weird creative stagnancy that WWE seem to be suffering from. He's far from the only one, though. It used to be that a wrestler could grow and change from their debut - look at how different a guy like Edge became from his debut to only a couple of years later. Now, they're just put in a box. They do their act, they get a trademarked nickname and that's it. Maybe we get the occasional heel change and hairstyle change, but that's about it. And that's fair enough for some wrestlers because maybe they've reached a level of maturity with their persona or they're only really capable of being a one-note performer, but some of the wrestlers on WWE's roster are really being stifled by this, and some of these wrestlers are still pretty young.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    Bray Wyatt's promos are great. There's probably just too many of them. It would probably be better if they had The Wyatt Family attack people, have matches and only do a promo once every few weeks. The mystique that was there when they debuted originally could be restored. I think the biggest moment where they dropped the ball with him, that sent him down the road he's on currently is when he didn't beat John Cena at WrestleMania XXX. He could have gone to the next level that night. Then the following month he didn't beat him strongly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,611 ✭✭✭✭ERG89


    WWE have made an awful mess of Reigns, doubt it's popular to say that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,171 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Summer of Punk, and HHH feeling the need to come in, beat him, and go back into his non-active role.

    Daniel Bryan. He got his moment, but what a fúcking waste all our time finally getting him there, then they were still trying to book him like a geek (look at his feud with Kane after WM30).

    Dean Ambrose. They're booking him like a moron. They can still prove me wrong when he fights Brock at Mania. He should be Reigns' position, end of.

    Dusty Rhodes. Those fúcking polka-dots.

    Ric Flair in his first WWE run. The Royal Rumble match was epic, but not getting Hogan/Flair done for WM 8 was a joke.

    Kurt Angle. Vince wasted everyone's time in 2001/2 with his goofy bollocks. Just book him to tie people in knots, and be cocky doing it. Easy. Kurt was a victim of being funny, and was saddled with shíte because of it.


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