Graiguecullen Boundary Review

Niemoj

I said I best create a new thread about the upcoming boundary results because other threads were getting derailed a bit.

Given the fact I'm making this thread in the Carlow forum and not the Laois is probably an indication of my stance on the issue!:pac:

What do you think of it?

For those not in the no there are two boundary reviews across the country now I think. The Carlow/Laois one and the Kilkenny/Waterford one.

The one about Graiguecullen (link here)proposes to bring Graiguecullen officially into County Carlow for everything, electoral, health board etc.

I think it's great idea personally, makes a lot more sense than having to deal with Laois CoCo or being sent to Portlaoise when Carlow CoCo is so close!

I'd say regardless of the official outcome (due 31 March)it won't change what people will say their address is or identify as and likely whether you say Laois or Carlow things will still get delivered fine just as they do now.

Thoughts?

-A proud Carlovian man:D

Morf

Live in Graiguecullen.

Live in Triangle so everything has always been Carlow Town-based which would seem to make a lot of sense for the greater area.

No particular affinity to either county (little GAA interest).

From a logistics view I imagine it would suit most residents to do their official business 5 minutes away rather than 30/35 minute drive or a pretty poor bus service between the two.

Niemoj

Morf wrote: »

Live in Graiguecullen.

Live in Triangle so everything has always been Carlow Town-based which would seem to make a lot of sense for the greater area.

No particular affinity to either county (little GAA interest).

From a logistics view I imagine it would suit most residents to do their official business 5 minutes away rather than 30/35 minute drive or a pretty poor bus service between the two.

I agree in that it would make so much more sense to be administered by the Carlow CoCo as opposed to Laois.

Like if a person in Graiguecullen said they were "going into town" chances are it would be Carlow town they'd be going to, not travelling 30+ minutes to get to Portlaoise, if they go to school it's likely to be Carlow, same with work and their family probably lives mostly in the Carlow/south east area too not the midlands!

My point is, Graiguecullen has been tied to Carlow in many aspects for a long long time,it makes sense for it to finally be administered by county Carlow too!

Thundercats Ho

Niemoj wrote: »

Like if a person in Graiguecullen said they were "going into town" chances are it would be Carlow town they'd be going to, not travelling 30+ minutes to get to Portlaoise, if they go to school it's likely to be Carlow, same with work and their family probably lives mostly in the Carlow/south east area too not the midlands!

So what. The same could be said if you were from Killeshin, Ballickmoyler, or even Crettyard. Your point makes zero sense, only to point out Graiguecullens proximity to Carlow town.

Niemoj wrote: »

if they go to school it's likely to be Carlow

Chances are, they're going to Graigue or Killeshin. If not, they're going to Carlow.

Niemoj wrote: »

same with work and their family probably lives mostly in the Carlow/south east area too not the midlands!

What has this got to do with anything? Family can be from anywhere!
Neither county offers great industry, and people have to travel to Dublin for work.

Niemoj

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

So what. The same could be said if you were from Killeshin, Ballickmoyler, or even Crettyard. Your point makes zero sense, only to point out Graiguecullens proximity to Carlow town.

Yes, Graiguecullen is closest to Carlow which means it would make a lot more sense for it to be administered by Carlow too so that residents would no have to travel the 30+ mins to have things done in Portlaoise.

Chances are, they're going to Graigue or Killeshin. If not, they're going to Carlow.

Ah yes, Killeshin NS Carlow and St Fiacc's NS Carlow. Graiguecullen children are closest to Carlow so doesn't it make sense to send them to a Carlow school and not say for example one a primary in Portlaoise? The same can be said for local government!

What has this got to do with anything? Family can be from anywhere!
Neither county offers great industry, and people have to travel to Dublin for work.

Well it's true that family can be from all over and mightn't even be in Ireland at at. I'm just saying that generally if someone was born and raised in Graiguecullen then their family is most likely in Carlow, in the south east. Not the Midlands.

The only affinity for a lot of Laois people in Graiguecullen seems to be the GAA which is fair enough but logistically doesn't it make sense for poling, local governing, planning etc to be dealt with by Carlow CoCo which is so much closer than Laois CoCo.

Thundercats Ho

Niemoj wrote: »

Yes, Graiguecullen is closest to Carlow which means it would make a lot more sense for it to be administered by Carlow too so that residents would no have to travel the 30+ mins to have things done in Portlaoise.

What about St. Mullins? or again, like Killeshin. They all have to travel distances. just because it's close doesn't mean a thing.
The village is only going to get bigger, and this same argument would happen every generation until the county boundary is at Killeshin. the simplest solution is to set the river as the boundary (as it originally was) or, you know, leave it as it is.

Niemoj wrote: »

Ah yes, Killeshin NS Carlow and St Fiacc's NS Carlow. Graiguecullen children are closest to Carlow so doesn't it make sense to send them to a Carlow school and not say for example one a primary in Portlaoise? The same can be said for local government!

Are you seriously suggesting there are no schools between Graigue and Portlaoise, and we'll all have to travel 30 minutes due to lack of options or preference? c'mon now.
I know people from Ballinabranna who send their kids to school in Killeen, and vice versa. Kids from Paletine that go to Graigue or vice versa.

Niemoj wrote: »

Well it's true that family can be from all over and mightn't even be in Ireland at at. I'm just saying that generally if someone was born and raised in Graiguecullen then their family is most likely in Carlow, in the south east. Not the Midlands.

The only affinity for a lot of Laois people in Graiguecullen seems to be the GAA which is fair enough but logistically doesn't it make sense for poling, local governing, planning etc to be dealt with by Carlow CoCo which is so much closer than Laois CoCo.

What has the GAA got to do with this? The GAA don't establish county boundaries.
Breaking news: people shop, socialise, and work close to where they live.

I've lived in Graiguecullen all my life and have no family in Carlow. Plenty of people are the same, plenty of people have family in Carlow. So what, it makes no difference to a county boundary where your family is.
Unless there's going to be a toll on the bridge or we'll need passports to travel from county to county?
What % of people in Carlow town or even Graiguecullen, know where the county boundary actually is?

Niemoj

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

What about St. Mullins? or again, like Killeshin. They all have to travel distances. just because it's close doesn't mean a thing.
The village is only going to get bigger, and this same argument would happen every generation until the county boundary is at Killeshin. the simplest solution is to set the river as the boundary (as it originally was) or, you know, leave it as it is.

They might change the border or they mightn't. Either way it's not going to change people in Graiguecullen being free to state their address as County Carlow or County Laois. I wouldn't worry about what'll happen in a generation. Ireland as we know it could be totally different in a generation. But currently, in the present, it makes more sense for Graiguecullen to be administered by Carlow than it does by Laois.

Are you seriously suggesting there are no schools between Graigue and Portlaoise, and we'll all have to travel 30 minutes due to lack of options or preference? c'mon now.
I know people from Ballinabranna who send their kids to school in Killeen, and vice versa. Kids from Paletine that go to Graigue or vice versa.

Of course not.

What has the GAA got to do with this? The GAA don't establish county boundaries.
Breaking news: people shop, socialise, and work close to where they live.

There are few businesses or organisations in Graiguecullen which identify as being in Laois, the majority say Carlow. The GAA is one of the few that say Laois (they actually played for Carlow to begin with!) and generally speaking people attached to the GAA in Graigue tend to identify as being from Laois as opposed to Carlow.

I've lived in Graiguecullen all my life and have no family in Carlow. Plenty of people are the same, plenty of people have family in Carlow. So what, it makes no difference to a county boundary where your family is.
Unless there's going to be a toll on the bridge or we'll need passports to travel from county to county?
What % of people in Carlow town or even Graiguecullen, know where the county boundary actually is?

Imo, boundaries throughout Ireland should be constantly re-evaluated given the ever changing shape of towns. It makes sense to invest in a way to best administer the people living there.

We live in a democracy, no one can change a person's identity. That's a given but the whole point of this is in an attempt to find a better way to administer the people of Graiguecullen, and the best way as of March 2016 is via Carlow!

Thundercats Ho

Niemoj wrote: »

But currently, in the present, it makes more sense for Graiguecullen to be administered by Carlow than it does by Laois.

Well you see, that's your opinion as a Carlow person.
I doubt the Laois council would agree, given how the village has developed in the last decade and will continue to grow in the future. it would be madness on their part to forego the rates and taxes they'd receive. There already is a Eastern Laois co.co. office in Graiguecullen. It's pretty much a depot atm, but there's no reason it won't develop in the future, as the area develops. There already is a health centre in the Laois side of Graigue too, in Oakley park. Again, there's no reason this (or a new centre) wouldn't develop as the area does.

Niemoj wrote: »

There are few businesses or organisations in Graiguecullen which identify as being in Laois, the majority say Carlow. The GAA is one of the few that say Laois (they actually played for Carlow to begin with!) and generally speaking people attached to the GAA in Graigue tend to identify as being from Laois as opposed to Carlow.

That's due to it's proximity to the town, but i'm sure you know this.
The Talbot is in Laois, but why advertise it as Laois, when you're just outside Carlow town. The Carlow post sorting office is in Laois. etc etc. The postal address will still be Carlow. Killeshin and Crettyard get their post from Carlow, so most use Carlow as their postal address.

Niemoj wrote: »

Imo, boundaries throughout Ireland should be constantly re-evaluated given the ever changing shape of towns. It makes sense to invest in a way to best administer the people living there.

Perhaps in the future, there will be a constituency of Carlow / East Laois, which would solve the issue. Parts of Carlow are in the Wicklow constituency as it stands, as Wicklow best suits their needs, yet that part of the Carlow boundary isn't being changed.

I'd be more inclined to be in favour of electoral boundary changes, than historical county boundaries.

Niemoj

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Well you see, that's your opinion as a Carlow person.
I doubt the Laois council would agree, given how the village has developed in the last decade and will continue to grow in the future. it would be madness on their part to forego the rates and taxes they'd receive. There already is a Eastern Laois co.co. office in Graiguecullen. It's pretty much a depot atm, but there's no reason it won't develop in the future, as the area develops. There already is a health centre in the Laois side of Graigue too, in Oakley park. Again, there's no reason this (or a new centre) wouldn't develop as the area does.

And then there's Dympnas hospital which you can't be sent to because it's Carlow, you have to be referred to Portlaoise!

I actually pass by that Laois CoCo building often, all it ever seems to be used for is road sign storage haha.

That's due to it's proximity to the town, but i'm sure you know this.
The Talbot is in Laois, but why advertise it as Laois, when you're just outside Carlow town. The Carlow post sorting office is in Laois. etc etc. The postal address will still be Carlow. Killeshin and Crettyard get their post from Carlow, so most use Carlow as their postal address.

They're including their addresses as Carlow and this would indicate this is the county they indetify with, not Laois.

You could write your address as Carlow, Laois or Timbuktu and your post will still get to ya, An Post are very good at their job.

Perhaps in the future, there will be a constituency of Carlow / East Laois, which would solve the issue. Parts of Carlow are in the Wicklow constituency as it stands, as Wicklow best suits their needs, yet that part of the Carlow boundary isn't being changed.

I'd be more inclined to be in favour of electoral boundary changes, than historical county boundaries.

Personally speaking, yes, I do hope Graiguecullen is brought officially into Carlow. But realistically the main issue is with the voting. I've lived in Graiguecullen most of my life, I've lived in Carlow all my life, so why can't I vote for Carlow politicians? Their campaign posters encroached well into Graiguecullen (around Dunnes at places!) but yet they can't be voted for?

Making a joint Carlow~Laois constituency would be a good idea imo, it would solve the main issue of voting.

lotdpd

A school yard argument is all your having and your stating about Graiguecullen...

"I've lived in Graiguecullen most of my life, I've lived in Carlow all my life" - such a childish statement.

Niemoj

lotdpd wrote: »

A school yard argument is all your having and your stating about Graiguecullen...

"I've lived in Graiguecullen most of my life, I've lived in Carlow all my life" - such a childish statement.

Notice the difference between most and all.

I have lived in Graiguecullen for a few years and in Carlow Town for a few years hence my above statement.

But again, the whole point of this is to find a way to best serve the interests of administering the people of Graiguecullen.

Thundercats Ho

Niemoj wrote: »

Notice the difference between most and all.

I have lived in Graiguecullen for a few years and in Carlow Town for a few years hence my above statement.
.

That wasn't his point. If you've lived in Carlow all your life implies that Graiguecullen is in Carlow. Which may be the case depending on which part you live in (2/3 of the population live in the Laois part).

In any case, It's unlikely things will change.

Thundercats Ho

Niemoj wrote: »

And then there's Dympnas hospital which you can't be sent to because it's Carlow, you have to be referred to Portlaoise!

What do you mean by this comment? Are you suggesting i need to be referred to a psychiatric hospital?

Niemoj

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

What do you mean by this comment? Are you suggesting i need to be referred to a psychiatric hospital?

Haha no, I'm saying you as in you in general.

Up until recently if you needed to get something done, like a check up or something and it wasn't an emergency (I don't know the exact specifics) you'd have to go to Portlaoise instead of Dympnas.

Niemoj

car wrote: »

New mothers who live in the likes of Rochford Manor and Crossneen Manor, have to travel all the way down to Portlaoise to get their newborn babies BCG, where if they lived a bit further down the road such as Cloyagh, they can go into Dympna's do get their children vacinated.

Here's an example of what I mean. The above quote is from a thread from 2012 however.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Niemoj wrote: »

Personally speaking, yes, I do hope Graiguecullen is brought officially into Carlow. But realistically the main issue is with the voting. I've lived in Graiguecullen most of my life, I've lived in Carlow all my life, so why can't I vote for Carlow politicians? Their campaign posters encroached well into Graiguecullen (around Dunnes at places!) but yet they can't be voted for?

Making a joint Carlow~Laois constituency would be a good idea imo, it would solve the main issue of voting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterMurtagh/status/703514059753299968

road_high

Niemoj wrote: »

Haha no, I'm saying you as in you in general.

Up until recently if you needed to get something done, like a check up or something and it wasn't an emergency (I don't know the exact specifics) you'd have to go to Portlaoise instead of Dympnas.

Would it not depend on your doctor and where they refer you to?

Niemoj

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterMurtagh/status/703514059753299968

I definitely wouldn't do anything like that anyway, to spoil your vote intentionally is quite ridiculous however it does get the point across!

Niemoj

road_high wrote: »

Would it not depend on your doctor and where they refer you to?

It's based on your health board, so Carlow is south east and Laois is Midlands so for example I had to get my eyes dome in Specsavers on the MedicalCard so I'd a form to fill out which instead of being dropped in to Carlow it had to be posted out to Laois. It's little things like that.

road_high

Niemoj wrote: »

And then there's Dympnas hospital which you can't be sent to because it's Carlow, you have to be referred to Portlaoise!

I actually pass by that Laois CoCo building often, all it ever seems to be used for is road sign storage haha.



They're including their addresses as Carlow and this would indicate this is the county they indetify with, not Laois.

You could write your address as Carlow, Laois or Timbuktu and your post will still get to ya, An Post are very good at their job.



Personally speaking, yes, I do hope Graiguecullen is brought officially into Carlow. But realistically the main issue is with the voting. I've lived in Graiguecullen most of my life, I've lived in Carlow all my life, so why can't I vote for Carlow politicians? Their campaign posters encroached well into Graiguecullen (around Dunnes at places!) but yet they can't be voted for?

Making a joint Carlow~Laois constituency would be a good idea imo, it would solve the main issue of voting.

The candidate quality from Carlow is very poor hence only Pat Deering being elected. No amount of tinkering with boundaries is going to change this and Saint Jennifer Murnane would still be competing for FF votes in Laois, which Id hope she wouldn't show the same disdain as she does for Kilkenny.

Niemoj

road_high wrote: »

The candidate quality from Carlow is very poor hence only Pat Deering being elected. No amount of tinkering with boundaries is going to change this and Saint Jennifer Murnane would still be competing for FF votes in Laois, which Id hope she wouldn't show the same disdain as she does for Kilkenny.

I really dislike Pat Deering, there's something about him that's so fake or something.

A big portion of Jennifer's "fans" are in Graiguecullen so I think it'd be in her own best interests to get the boundary review sorted.

I just don't like the fact all through Carlow you see the posters for the politicians even into Graiguecullen there were Carlow posters around Dunnes and they even canvas in the Graigue area and then come election day there's a bunch of politicians you've never heard of because they're all from Portlaoise!

Niemoj

I just noticed on the Census form it lists my address as "Graiguecullen, Carlow, Laois", surely that makes very little sense at all?

Anyway, I suppose we'll see what the result of the review is at the end of this month.

Niemoj

Result was due "no late than" the 31st of March and now here we are a month later and no word on the results. It's the same for the other boundary reviews Waterford, Drogheda, Athlone etc. I'm assuming our current lack of a government is the reason why!

road_high

Niemoj wrote: »

Result was due "no late than" the 31st of March and now here we are a month later and no word on the results. It's the same for the other boundary reviews Waterford, Drogheda, Athlone etc. I'm assuming our current lack of a government is the reason why!

I'd say it's more due to the huge volume of submissions (generally opposed to this hair brain idea). Especially in the case of Kilkenny and Roscommon. This is going nowhere, especially with the precarious nature of the next Dail. Do you think either FG or FF are going to risk marginal seats for something the people living in the respective areas neither want or asked for? Not a hope in hell. They'll be keen to avoid potential landmines, particularly after the Irish Water fiasco.
Even if boundary extensions were "recommended" it wouldn't be even worth the paper it's written on, as it's non-binding and must go through the Dail. Which ain't going to happen...this was a Paudie Coffey/Alan Kelly solo run, both irrelevant now, and one not even elected anymore.

lotdpd

http://www.laoistoday.ie/2017/02/08/breaking-graiguecullen-to-stay-in-laois-proposes-boundary-committee/

JaCrispy

Great news for Carlow

lotdpd

How????

EmoCourt

Hopefully now Laois County Council will plan to extend the ring road southwards, without the worry that they'll lose their investment in any future boundary change.