Vrt saga

th hen

I have been trying to vrt my car all week but no no avail due to the failings of the vrt department in this country. I went to vrt office which is 20 miles away on Monday morning 10.30 am to vrt our car. It's a 2012 Mercedes c250 cdi sport in a manual . The lady in vrt office ( which is a portable cabin in the nct centre ! ) told me there is no listing for my car on her vrt calculator so the request needs to be sent to Dublin and await a valuation.

Tuesday morning 10.30am I get a text to ring vrt in Dublin and they give me a quote of 5636 euro. To me that's very high compared to what I was getting when calculated it myself. Anyways I said I'd pay and appeal so off I went to get a bank draught. Landed at vrt office 11.30 to pay with my toddler son in tow. The lady made me wait a hour to pay even though translation took 2 minutes when it rain actually happened or didn't happen as we soon come too. The waiting room was full and is the size roughly of a cell so keeping him entertainedwas a job in itself ! Finally get attended to and the vrt lady says the quote is for an auto is my car auto, NO !!! She then proceeded to tell me she has to email Dublin again and get another new quote, well that's a waste of 40 mile round trip and a hour waiting and not to mention the price of a bank draught.

So today the saga continues, I get a text 11.20 to say my quote is ready. I ring and get the exact same figure of 5636 !!!! I tell the lady on the phone that it's wrong as its exact same figure and that's for auto, she says must be same amount on manual as auto. I try to explain it can't as emissions are different and the value of an auto and manual car are different so it's impossible. I beg for her to please check is the new quote for auto as my last ordeal on Tuesday and I'd be in the same position today. She eventually comes back and yes the quote is again for an auto, I have to wait again for a new quote, this is going on since Monday and they expect me to keep getting new bank draughts and taking hours out of my day as someone is too incompetent to do they're job in an office in Dublin.

I feel they are giving quotes and expecting the buyer to pay and not question them, the whole process is unprofessional and made to make paying as hard an ordeal as possible. You can appeal the final quote but I wonder can you actually bring them to the small claims court instead as they are clearly overcharging people and hoping to get away with it. Next thing I know it will be over the 30 days to pay and they will expect me to pay a fine too !!! I'm fed up of them at this stage to be honest.

Atlantic Dawn

Does your car appear on the revenue online VRT calculator? If it does surely it should just be a case of her inputting the statistical code to get the quote?

vandriver

I'm getting higher vrt amounts that you(€6,600)!

th hen

There is only an auto on the calculator online which has emissions that fall into the 23% vrt rate and the emissions on my actual car brings the vrt into the 19% bracket. Obviously my car is only 2012 manual c250 cdi ever imported into the country. They don't seem to have a clue and when I asked today was it an auto or manual in my new quote they were reluctant to tell me anything I had to argue my case on the phone with the lady and they just about told me it's an auto. They won't tell what is the open market selling price that they're quoting it on or vrt rate. When someone wants you to pay 5636 in fairness you expect an answer as to how they deduced that figure. I fear it's a ploy to get people to pay top whack and hope they don't appeal the fee. To be fair this is my 6th time to vrt a car and there seems to be an issue 50% of the time with them.

NIMAN

What does this calulcator give you

http://www.motorcheck.ie/blog/vrt-calculator/

th hen

There is 2 listings for my car but both have wrong emissions on them. I will post both up and show you the difference when emissions are entered manually. Also the open market selling price is huge compared to actual value of my car

The emissions and open market selling price is what decides the price I pay and both are wrong !

mickdw

Surely these staff should have some knowledge of cars as Id imagine the whole point of moving the service to the NCT people was to gain some knowledge that the revenue officers didnt have. Im hearing too amny cases where these staff cannot identify old versus new models of cars and are clicking the wrong options and coming up with wildly wrong vrt amounts.

I personally observed 2 revenue officials assess a landcruiser before the days of taking the car to the nct place.
It was funny.
The cruiser was a short wheelbase. These a 2 door whereas the long wheelbase is 4 door and quite a bit longer - basically a child of 4 could pick out a long from a short wheelbase.
Anyway the 2 fellas looked it over inside and out, and the conversation went like this:

Inspector Tom: Is it long or short Joe?
Inspector Joe: Im not sure Tom, there is a bit of room in the back alright. She must be the long one
Inspector Tom: Id say it is Joe.
Client: Its clearly a short wheelbase - 2 doors and just look at it - its the short one. The long ones are 4 doors
Inspector Tom: We will be the judge of that. Get a measuring tape Joe.

20 mins later after much fumbling with tape, they record some random dimension and declare that they will have to get it checked out so vrt couldnt be paid.

th hen

NIMAN wrote: »

What does this calulcator give you

http://www.motorcheck.ie/blog/vrt-calculator/

5156 I get which is 500 of a difference and even at that they are still using an Omsp which is higher than the value of the car.

vandriver

What value do you think the car has?

th hen

vandriver wrote: »

What value do you think the car has?

25k , it's not a desired car here which is obvious as I seem to be only one ever brought one in. There is only one other I can even find for sale which is a 2011 with less miles than mine for 19k . Everyone wants the cheaper to run and insure 200 or 220 model.

vandriver

The obvious problem is that if you have no others to compare it to,you have no basis for challenging the omsp.

mickdw

th hen wrote: »

25k , it's not a desired car here which is obvious as I seem to be only one ever brought one in. There is only one other I can even find for sale which is a 2011 with less miles than mine for 19k . Everyone wants the cheaper to run and insure 200 or 220 model.

You are looking at around 5k anyway so they are not a million miles away.
I can see why the 250 is not a favourite new because it's a fair bit more money but used, it's an absolute no brainer.

th hen

mickdw wrote: »

You are looking at around 5k anyway so they are not a million miles away.
I can see why the 250 is not a favourite new because it's a fair bit more money but used, it's an absolute no brainer.

I have a few things to base my valuation and will use them when appeal. Whether I get a refund or not remains to be seen but I'll be applying for one either way.

vandriver

Not that it's relevant to your vrt amount,but how much did the car cost in the UK ?

th hen

17000 euro, with vrt of 5636 it would stand me 22536 euro, some saving on what they say the car is worth if they're price was right !!! I dont think I've saved 5000 euro in fairness. If this is the case I'm going into car dealing......

colm_mcm

Do they have a current OMSP for your car now?
Also is the co2 value they've calculated the same as on the V5 document?

mickdw

I believe they were quoting 5636 based on 23% when the OPs car is 19%.

colm_mcm

Try and nail down an OMSP figure for the car from them. VRT figure is based on OMSP

th hen

There Omsp are way off anyways, I see they have auto listing on vrt calculator of c250 which comes in at 5629 which is not far off quote they gave me but they value my car at 29630 !!!! They need to be realistic , my cousin has a 2010 golf gtd and the omsp is 9900...... That's about 5k under what it is worth. They seem to be pulling these figures outta the sky !

th hen

colm_mcm wrote: »

Try and nail down an OMSP figure for the car from them. VRT figure is based on OMSP

Getting answers from them seems to be like pulling teeth lol, such a job I had to just find out if it my quote today was based on auto or manual, I'm just gonna pay the next figure they give me and appeal as its a farce.

mickdw

th hen wrote: »

There Omsp are way off anyways, I see they have auto listing on vrt calculator of c250 which comes in at 5629 which is not far off quote they gave me but they value my car at 29630 !!!! They need to be realistic , my cousin has a 2010 golf gtd and the omsp is 9900...... That's about 5k under what it is worth. They seem to be pulling these figures outta the sky !

Well if they have an auto quoted at 5629 and they are 23 percent, that's an omsp of 24473.
Assuming same valuation for your car and 19 percent vrt, you should pay 4650

colm_mcm

that's what I was thinking too. so they not send you a detailed quote or anything?

Cee-Jay-Cee

When appealing ask for the name of the person who provides the valuation on which the VRT is calculated. Also ask for all documents or proof of enquiries used. If they don't provide it then make a freedom on information application citing that persons name and look for everything used. If that fails make an application under section 4 of the data protection act for all material/documents that Revenue hold in relation to you and your VRT appeal. That should keep them on their toes. It would probably be no harm to inform them at the time of the appeal that this is the route you are taking, it may endure they calculate the VRT accurately.

colm_mcm

it looks like they've added manual to the vrt calculator?

the stat code earlier in the thread is for a manual according to ros. emissons don't match what you say yours is though.

pheelay

Sounds like the Kells VRT office. I've brought 3 cars through there in the last couple of years and all of them needed to be referred to revenue for a quote. It seems the staff in the NCT/VRT office have very little say beyond "what the system says". Having to make repeated return trips, time off work etc. does get annoying, for something that is supposed to be done in one visit.

For what it's worth OP, in one of my cases I did feel that I was overcharged on the VRT. I lodged a successful appeal and got a refund of the difference from Revenue.

th hen

Got a phone all yesterday with a new quote with a manual gearbox 5383, saved near 300 euro at the very worst, went down to pay it at 9.50 am this morning and the office was closed, hung around thinking maybe 10am opening but no movement still at 10.20. Went into the nct centre to ask what time would the vrt office be open and they informed they thought the lady was working out of carsick on Shannon today.

The whole place is a farce of the highest order , no where on the premises or even in it as I checked every time I was left waiting down there is there a list of opening times or Even a contact number. I can't find opening times online either. This was my 4th time to go down and pay and now I must go again tomorrow for a 5th time. I swear they make it hard for you to register a car I think you may as well drive around and give the state the 2 fingers !!!

mickdw

th hen wrote: »

Got a phone all yesterday with a new quote with a manual gearbox 5383, saved near 300 euro at the very worst, went down to pay it at 9.50 am this morning and the office was closed, hung around thinking maybe 10am opening but no movement still at 10.20. Went into the nct centre to ask what time would the vrt office be open and they informed they thought the lady was working out of carsick on Shannon today.

The whole place is a farce of the highest order , no where on the premises or even in it as I checked every time I was left waiting down there is there a list of opening times or Even a contact number. I can't find opening times online either. This was my 4th time to go down and pay and now I must go again tomorrow for a 5th time. I swear they make it hard for you to register a car I think you may as well drive around and give the state the 2 fingers !!!

Its a joke to be fair. That quote still cannot be correct if an auto was coming in at 5600 and your car is in the lower vrt bracket.
For that quote to be correct, they must be valuing your car about 4k more than an equivalent auto of same age.

th hen

mickdw wrote: »

Its a joke to be fair. That quote still cannot be correct if an auto was coming in at 5600 and your car is in the lower vrt bracket.

To be honest mickdw I'm just sick of the whole process now, every time I go down its 40 mile round trip with my toddler in tow and it seems to take a hour every time when down there, it's a joke it really is . I'm going to just get it paid and then appeal and see where it gets me. Imagine if I had paid the 5636 the first day I'd be out of pocket and I'd have a manual car with auto on the log book......... Here's to hoping its 5th time lucky !

mittimitti

Any idea how long an appeal will take?

Nice car BTW, why did you want a manual

th hen

I've been told takes up to a month so hopefully that is accurate. Didn't want a manual specifically but c250s are so rare here the best one I found was a manual so went with that. Would have rathered auto to be honest but at least there's less trouble with a manual gearbox. Got car vrt'd today so will start appeal tomorrow just need to print my findings off and post them . Fingers crossed i get something back from the revenue.

mittimitti

Its a lovely car is it nice to drive
What extras did you get by buying in the UK

cruizer101

mickdw wrote: »

...

20 mins later after much fumbling with tape, they record some random dimension and declare that they will have to get it checked out so vrt couldnt be paid.

That made me laugh a lot, it shouldn't be funny because it is actually true but it is like something out of a comedy sketch show. I feel for you OP

daRobot

Welcome to the farce that is Ireland.

Not to be able to get an accurate quote on many cars is just an absolute joke.

I'm looking at a 2013 A8 4.0 Tfsi in the UK at the moment, but it doesn't show on their system.

So to get a quote, I have to buy it, present it and then decide....

People have the right to be able to budget for their purchases and get a proper figure without having to buy it first. It's an embarassingly bad system.

Voodoomelon

Jesus, I wasn't aware of that, I thought anyone could get a quote on any vehicle before purchasing. So you have to just take the chance?!

I was looking at a few older Maseratis recently and would be curious to see the VRT on them. So the only way is to buy one first?

daRobot

Voodoomelon wrote: »

So the only way is to buy one first?

Yep. What a total ****ing shambles of a tax system.

th hen

They seem to be ale to do what they want ! It's amazing considering it can be argued vrt is illegal........

mittimitti

you can argue with customs that vrt is illegal but they just take your car and wont give it back until you made extortion springs to mind

CJhaughey

daRobot wrote: »

Welcome to the farce that is Ireland.

Not to be able to get an accurate quote on many cars is just an absolute joke.

I'm looking at a 2013 A8 4.0 Tfsi in the UK at the moment, but it doesn't show on their system.

So to get a quote, I have to buy it, present it and then decide....

People have the right to be able to budget for their purchases and get a proper figure without having to buy it first. It's an embarassingly bad system.

Campervans are the same, buy then discover what you have to pay.
At least with the cars there is a facility that you can estimate what it will be in the VRT manual.

listermint

CJhaughey wrote: »

Campervans are the same, buy then discover what you have to pay.

How do you prove you have it in your possession ?

What prevents the phone call quote ?

th hen

I think if the whole process was more transparent it would help. The process is based on you buy a car and we will then tell you how much you must pay and it will all be in the revenues terms and conditions. There is a vrt calculator text service which cost you €2 to use and have the time the quote is wrong or gives you they cannot quote answer, considering they are charging you money you would imagine you should get a accurate price but no that's not the way they work. It's all about screwing the consumer.

millington

listermint wrote: »

How do you prove you have it in your possession ?

What prevents the phone call quote ?

You have to rock up to the centre with it and the receipts, thats proof enough

Guy:Incognito

th hen wrote: »

They seem to be ale to do what they want ! It's amazing considering it can be argued vrt is illegal........

You can argue the sun is a marshmallow, wont make it remotely true though.

th hen

Doesn't make vrt any more bearable either.........

JohnBoy26

mickdw wrote: »

Surely these staff should have some knowledge of cars as Id imagine the whole point of moving the service to the NCT people was to gain some knowledge that the revenue officers didnt have. Im hearing too amny cases where these staff cannot identify old versus new models of cars and are clicking the wrong options and coming up with wildly wrong vrt amounts.

I personally observed 2 revenue officials assess a landcruiser before the days of taking the car to the nct place.
It was funny.
The cruiser was a short wheelbase. These a 2 door whereas the long wheelbase is 4 door and quite a bit longer - basically a child of 4 could pick out a long from a short wheelbase.
Anyway the 2 fellas looked it over inside and out, and the conversation went like this:

Inspector Tom: Is it long or short Joe?
Inspector Joe: Im not sure Tom, there is a bit of room in the back alright. She must be the long one
Inspector Tom: Id say it is Joe.
Client: Its clearly a short wheelbase - 2 doors and just look at it - its the short one. The long ones are 4 doors
Inspector Tom: We will be the judge of that. Get a measuring tape Joe.

20 mins later after much fumbling with tape, they record some random dimension and declare that they will have to get it checked out so vrt couldnt be paid.

It's not actually the staff carrying out nct test that does the vrt though. It's a separate operation with separate staff. From what I see off it they've only made the process more complicated as all they have done is added a middleman, where as before you'd be dealing directly with revenue.

5500

th hen wrote: »

I think if the whole process was more transparent it would help. The process is based on you buy a car and we will then tell you how much you must pay and it will all be in the revenues terms and conditions. There is a vrt calculator text service which cost you €2 to use and have the time the quote is wrong or gives you they cannot quote answer, considering they are charging you money you would imagine you should get a accurate price but no that's not the way they work. It's all about screwing the consumer.

That text service isn't actually ran by revenue, its just a website with a premium rate number who goes and checks the ros calculator and replies to you!

Its the same with the majority of Jap performance car's the past year, slowly they were removed from the system and now the only way to get a quote is import it then hope for the best. I know a fair few people who have been stung lately expecting smaller prices that other people had paid, eg 1k but charged over 2k and so on.

I was hit myself for over 1k more than expected on a car, the reason they gave for the increase was that its hard to put an omsp on some car's hence keep them off the system and assess one by one, the central vehicle office outsources it to a consultant who comes back to revenue with the price.

I'd made the point as to why not just input a high omsp on the system with the car listed so a person will at least no the max price they can expect to pay instead of landing a car and discovering they cant afford it, but nope that's not the way they do things!

mickdw

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's not actually the staff carrying out nct test that does the vrt though. It's a separate operation with separate staff. From what I see off it they've only made the process more complicated as all they have done is added a middleman, where as before you'd be dealing directly with revenue.

I'm aware that it is a vrt section within ncts that carry out this service. The fact still remains that the whole move to ncts was to allow the car inspection be carried out by someone with a degree of knowledge of cars, more then the typical revenue officer who might have been working in an unrelated department until the day before.

th hen

mittimitti wrote: »

Its a lovely car is it nice to drive
What extras did you get by buying in the UK

u


Sorry mittimitti I missed this comment earlier, I don't think I got any real deal as in extras as being a UK car. I wanted a performance diesel/executive car. I started by wanting an E class but just too hard to source here and my budget prob would have only stretched to 2010/11 and wanted to try and get as new a car as possible and the C amg sport just looked that bit more sporty. To get a C250 here is very hard as they are especially rare.

It's the performance I was buying it for. It's a 204bhp diesel with better economy than my mondeo St tdci that's 155 bhp and better than my cousins golf gtd 170 bhp. 4 doors was essential as 2 children and ones still in child's seat. Now they are not the biggest in the back don't get me wrong but didn't want a golf at the same time, I like saloons. 0-60 in under 7 seconds in very pleasing not that I get to do it much but nice to have power to overtake when needed ( without kids in car I may add lol )

th hen

Quick update.

I got a letter from revenue today to say they value the car at 25000 so I am entitled to a 633 euro vrt refund. A repayment of 633 is due accordingly . Revenue will process this payment as soon as possible.

I would have thought they would have issued the cheque with the letter ???

Anyone else get a refund here ?

mickdw

Processing means they are checking your tax affairs to see if you owe revenue any money. If you did, there would be no cheque.

th hen

Suppose I'll wait and see so. A good refund all the same.

mittimitti

th hen wrote: »

Suppose I'll wait and see so. A good refund all the same.

You should have the cheque by the end of the week