Bus drivers' boycott because not being allowed to use radio?

lil5

Bus drivers' boycott of tunnel set to cause delays for passengers -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bus-drivers-boycott-of-tunnel-set-to-cause-delays-for-passengers-34500929.html

Dublin Bus passengers could face major delays as drivers will refuse to use the Port Tunnel next week.

They have reacted angrily after being banned from listening to the radio while driving as part of a new "zero tolerance" policy.

The move - to start next Tuesday - will affect routes, including the 747, 41x, 33x and 142, and could lead to major traffic congestion on routes to the airport.

The tunnel ban will take place on the same day as the next Luas strike.

The National Bus and Railworkers Union has written to Dublin Bus to inform the company that it has advised its members not to use the tunnel for health and safety reasons.
...

Control
Drivers have already refused to cooperate with central control after the ban began yesterday.
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Policy
General Secretary of the NBRU Dermot O'Leary described the policy as "stupidity of the highest order".
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He said the union could not argue against national legislation around the use of mobile phones while driving but "totally and utterly refuses" to accept the inclusion of radios on the list.
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Dublin Bus said it had a long-standing policy prohibiting the use of mobile phones and electronic devices while driving.

Peppa Pig

Not a fan of the NBRU, but they are right to do it.
Isn't there a sign at the entrances to the tunnel saying safety instructions are relayed through all FM stations?

Devilman40k

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Not a fan of the NBRU, but they are right to do it.
Isn't there a sign at the entrances to the tunnel saying safety instructions are relayed through all FM stations?

http://www.dublintunnel.ie/safety/

And this part in particular

FM Radio Break-in Facility
Tune into FM radio stations to hear safety instructions, in case of incident.

Gatling

Funny it's ok for them to be on their phones while driving a bus

Peppa Pig

Gatling wrote: »

Funny it's ok for them to be on their phones while driving a bus

From the link

He said the union could not argue against national legislation around the use of mobile phones while driving but "totally and utterly refuses" to accept the inclusion of radios on the list.

Seems the union accept the zero tolerance policy on phones and presumably enforcement, but they are being asked to take a bus load of passengers into a tunnel and not have a safety feature available to them.

n97 mini

But of a silly policy alright, but the drivers' response is worse. It only takes 10 mins to go through the tunnel, they'll still get in over an hour of Joe Duffy.

Pawwed Rig

n97 mini wrote: »

But of a silly policy alright, but the driver's response is worse. It only takes 10 mins to go through the tunnel, they'll still get in over an hour of Joe Duffy.

Think you missed the point. They can't listen to radio at all now. Seems like a silly policy to me. Anyone know the thinking behind it other than another bogus 'health and safety' reason.

n97 mini

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Think you missed the point. They can't listen to radio at all now. Seems like a silly policy to me. Anyone know the thinking behind it other than another bogus 'health and safety' reason.

You're right I did, sorry. Refusing to use a particular piece of road infrastructure as retaliation for not being allowed listen to Joe Duffy is even more idiotic.

mahoganygas

While I have sympathy for the bus drivers, this childish stunt is just ridiculous.

Of course they should be allowed to listen to the radio. But the union are making a show of themselves by pressing this loophole to somehow prove a point.
Is this the sort of "poor conditions" people expect their unions to fight against?

It makes a mockery of the right to industrial action and the public who rely on buses to get to work.

Shameful.

Peppa Pig

Mind you, from the bylaws

52. No person while on the vehicle shall sing, perform on any musical or other instruments or use any audible radio, television, record player, tape recorder or portable apparatus.

I presume the drivers are not using headphones to listen to the radio.

Still seems fairly unreasonable to deprive a driver of a bit of radio. Does anyone else drive in silence?

I've never heard of a radio being a contributory factor in an accident.

seamus

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Still seems fairly unreasonable to deprive a driver of a bit of radio.

Not really.

If it's not OK for a passenger to get on and have music playing, why is it OK for the driver?

While I can understand the upset, going on strike about it is completely over the top. Many people work in jobs where having a radio playing isn't acceptable, and a bus driver is doing a job, same as. Especially jobs in which you have to interact with the public - exceptionally rare that you'd be allowed have a radio playing.

I've never heard of a radio being a contributory factor in an accident.

How many accident reports have you read though?

There was a famous video on one of the early police camera shows where a small car driving in front of a police cars suddenly veers off the road, hits a kerb and a wall before slowing down and coming to a stop. It was a nurse on her way to work who leaned over to change radio stations.

Bazzy

seamus wrote: »

Not really.

If it's not OK for a passenger to get on and have music playing, why is it OK for the driver?

While I can understand the upset, going on strike about it is completely over the top. Many people work in jobs where having a radio playing isn't acceptable, and a bus driver is doing a job, same as. Especially jobs in which you have to interact with the public - exceptionally rare that you'd be allowed have a radio playing.

How many accident reports have you read though?

There was a famous video on one of the early police camera shows where a small car driving in front of a police cars suddenly veers off the road, hits a kerb and a wall before slowing down and coming to a stop. It was a nurse on her way to work who leaned over to change radio stations.

She was driving a mini and she was changing the tape not radio channels BIG difference.

Infini

The whole thing is a bit silly but at the same time were talking about a normal radio and plenty of people use them while driving. Anyone of BD management hear the term if it aint broke dont fix it? Seems to be someone going out of their way to annoy their own staff.

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

The whole thing is a bit silly but at the same time were talking about a normal radio and plenty of people use them while driving. Anyone of BD management hear the term if it aint broke dont fix it? Seems to be someone going out of their way to annoy their own staff.

To be fair - there are generally two sides to every dispute and the public rarely hear both in detail.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

But of a silly policy alright, but the drivers' response is worse. It only takes 10 mins to go through the tunnel, they'll still get in over an hour of Joe Duffy.

but not the safety instructions should there be an incident, which it seems are given out via radio. the responce is perfectly justified. if the company wants to bann the use of radios, it needs to find a viable replacement so that the safety instructions can still be received

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

but not the safety instructions should there be an incident, which it seems are given out via radio. the responce is perfectly justified. if the company wants to bann the use of radios, it needs to find a viable replacement so that the safety instructions can still be received

Don't they have 2 way comms on every bus

n97 mini

Indeed.

end of the road wrote: »

but not the safety instructions should there be an incident, which it seems are given out via radio. the responce is perfectly justified. if the company wants to bann the use of radios, it needs to find a viable replacement so that the safety instructions can still be received

If you read the link above, FM radio is only one of several communication methods used by the tunnel operator. They do not rely on FM radio. Their primary methods of communication are displays and loudspeakers.

As it is state-owned/CIE/Dubin Bus your support of their actions, regardless of how idiotic they are, was expected.

stoplooklisten

if there is an incident in the tunnel, they can turn it on, problem solved.

i just see above that fm radio is not the only way to check whats happening. If they have signs and loudspeakers I definitely can't see what the issue is

bigar

I use the bus for about two hours a day. Thank god that there is no radio blurting out horrible music and commercials that whole time. I support the ban completely.

LastStop

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair - there are generally two sides to every dispute and the public rarely hear both in detail.

Drivers have NEVER been allowed to use radios while driving. Supervisors just turned a blind eye to the practice. Management had to act if reported. I got a slap on the wrist years ago.

The only thing that is new is the zero tolerance. Supervisors will not be able to turn a blind eye anymore.

As for the NBRU. Don't get me started there. Still waiting for some conclusion to the incident when the wheel came off the bus. NBRU advised drivers not to complete the first use check sheet or sign it and that has been forgotten about as far as I can see.

So I expect this to rumble on for a couple of weeks and be swept under the carpet. The Port tunnel argument is embarrassing. Just so embarrassed that my money goes towards stupidity like that.

thomasj

Could you imagine the reaction of the government were to bring in laws banning radios in cars for health and safety reasons.

I'm sure db management would have something else to say if they couldn't listen to radio in their own cars.

stoplooklisten

thomasj wrote: »

Could you imagine the reaction of the government were to bring in laws banning radios in cars for health and safety reasons.

I'm sure db management would have something else to say if they couldn't listen to radio in their own cars.

I reckon they'd have a lot to say if a load of passengers jumped in the back seat too!

ProudDUB

bigar wrote: »

I use the bus for about two hours a day. Thank god that there is no radio blurting out horrible music and commercials that whole time. I support the ban completely.

+1

Took the Dublin Coach bus to Limerick a few weeks ago. Joe Duffy was BLARING out for the whole two hours. God, it was painful. If I want to listen to music, or our National Whinger in Chief, I'll bring my own radio and headset, thanks very much.

ronn

ProudDUB wrote: »

+1

Took the Dublin Coach bus to Limerick a few weeks ago. Joe Duffy was BLARING out for the whole two hours. God, it was painful. If I want to listen to music, or our National Whinger in Chief, I'll bring my own radio and headset, thanks very much.

There on about the drivers playing a radio in the cab, not playing music through the speakers on the bus.

Punkyblip

Well I can't watch porn at work, you don't hear me moaning and groaning.

ProudDUB

ronn wrote: »

There on about the drivers playing a radio in the cab, not playing music through the speakers on the bus.

I know. I was sitting two rows from the driver & I was hearing his radio. I couldn't move to a seat further back, as the bus was full. He had it on full blast and it was annoying as hell.

SuperS54

I'd imagine there may also be licensing issues, if the radio is being played in a workplace open to the public then they likely need both an IMRO and PPI license, all of which costs.

From IMRO
Under Sec 37 (2) of the Act ‘the copyright in a work is infringed by a person who without the licence of the copyright owner undertakes, or authorises another to undertake’, the public performance of the work. Therefore in effect by allowing staff use their own radio in the workplace, you are, as their employer, authorising the use of IMRO copyright music on your premises and you must hold a licence to allow you and them to do so.

Terrontress

As I understand it, just having a radio will leave you open to disciplinary procedures.

If a driver has a wait at a terminus before going back into service, surely a radio is justifiable in that instance.

Mr.Crinklewood

My friendly driver has the radio on.

which got me thinking. ...which song will I request for him?

plodder

What's the story with taxis? Can you tell the driver to switch off the radio? I know in a lot of cities you can, but I can't find anything official about it here.

GM228

Are these portable radios or built into the bus? (Apologies if already asked/answered).

the groutch

I would have to disagree with anyone who says it's a silly rule.

There's a huge difference between a private car and a 12 tonne bus carrying up to 90 people, and any unnecessary distractions to the driver should be eliminated.

cdebru

the groutch wrote: »

I would have to disagree with anyone who says it's a silly rule.

There's a huge difference between a private car and a 12 tonne bus carrying up to 90 people, and any unnecessary distractions to the driver should be eliminated.

What about a baby crying ? or a passenger talking on their phone ? Should they be eliminated ? Your private car is well capable of killing all its passengers as well as passengers in other vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists, if a radio is a seriously dangerous distraction to driving then they should be banned from all vehicles. Private cars are responsible for most deaths on our roads.

But the truth is that bored drivers are the most likely to have accidents

http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/04/bored-drivers-most-likely-to-have-accidents/

So rather than improve safety ( no one including Dublin bus can point to an accident caused by listening to the radio) this is likely to have the reverse, as well as mightily p***ing off their employees, it is an unnecessary provocation, threatening to sack people for the first offence of listening to a radio, DB management have opened a can of worms and made the upcoming pay claim far more difficult to negotiate.


Not to mention that their sister company BE actually fit radios to all their coaches.

cdebru

GM228 wrote: »

Are these portable radios or built into the bus? (Apologies if already asked/answered).

Portable DB don't fit radios to their vehicles.

thomasj

Considering the number of crashes on our roads, if anything that can be seen as a distraction for Dublin Bus drivers needs to be banned to avoid crashes involving buses, I dont see why this can't be used as a means to focus drivers attention more on the roads and to avoid crashes involving cars on the roads.

Peppa Pig

I'd hazard a guess that a major problem is the drivers listening to the radio through their phone. That's a bit of a grey area.
Does anyone have a portable radio anymore?

Mysterypunter

I was waiting for a bus this morning and the driver boycotted the bus stop.

Victor

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Does anyone have a portable radio anymore?

I saw a driver last week who had one - stuck in front of the speedometer.

coylemj

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Does anyone have a portable radio anymore?

You can buy them all right but the problem is that with most mobile phones incorporating an FM radio nowadays, the quality of the audio in small portable radios is chronically bad because even if you wanted to pay a premium for a good quality radio, finding a decent model these days is very difficult.

So if the bus driver has the volume up as a lot of them do, the passengers on the lower deck often have to listen to a terrible racket and there's nothing they can do about - it's significant that not one poster with experience of this annoyance has suggested that you ask the driver to turn down the volume, let alone switch the fcuking thing off.

Mrs OBumble

cdebru wrote: »

Portable DB don't fit radios to their vehicles.

DB don't, and BE do? Why the difference?

cdebru

thomasj wrote: »

Considering the number of crashes on our roads, if anything that can be seen as a distraction for Dublin Bus drivers needs to be banned to avoid crashes involving buses, I dont see why this can't be used as a means to focus drivers attention more on the roads and to avoid crashes involving cars on the roads.

If it is a problem, where are the accidents caused by listening to the radio ? Why is it not illegal ? Why is every other vehicle driver in the country permitted to listen to a radio ? Why do Dublin bus drivers have one of the lowest accident rates compared to other drivers ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-bus-at-top-of-world-safety-league-26568533.html

If safety is the issue why haven't the company addressed the issue of wheels coming off buses, this is an actual safety issue with a non expensive solution available but the company has point blank refused to do anything.

The truth is this is not a safety issue, radios were lumped in with other devices which are obviously actually dangerous to use like mobile phones, ipads, laptops etc but listening to a radio does not involve anything like the involvement and distraction of using those devices, it is clearly overkill to suggest that texting, taking a phone call, watching a movie on an ipad, etc are in the same league as listening to a radio and require the same punishment, ie termination of employment.

If you want to ban "anything" that could distract a driver then we can look forward to the banning of most passengers, attractive pedestrians, cyclists, the sun, headlights on other vehicles etc etc etc.

cdebru

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

DB don't, and BE do? Why the difference?

Dublin bus did have radios at one stage many years ago, but I believe the real problem is probably IMRO and paying for it if they allow it, but it is being dressed up as a " safety" issue when it is not and the penalty for listening is complete overkill putting it on the same level as a mobile phone when it is clearly nothing of the sort.

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that a major problem is the drivers listening to the radio through their phone. That's a bit of a grey area.
Does anyone have a portable radio anymore?

If it was that issue then that could easily have been dealt with by saying using a mobile phone included using any radio function on the phone. Problem solved anyone using a mobile phone as a radio would have to get a small radio and stop using the radio function on the phone, there would be no issue.

thomasj

cdebru wrote:

If it is a problem, where are the accidents caused by listening to the radio ? Why is it not illegal ? Why is every other vehicle driver in the country permitted to listen to a radio ? Why do Dublin bus drivers have one of the lowest accident rates compared to other drivers ?

Im just trying to highlight that if management were allowed to use radios in their cars theyd change their tact in a hurry

cdebru

thomasj wrote: »

Im just trying to highlight that if management were allowed to use radios in their cars theyd change their tact in a hurry

Do you think, management have removed the radios from their company cars ? In the interests of safety ?
I think DB have stupidly walked themselves into a corner, we have seen the port tunnel, their drivers are refusing to deal with the controllers over the 2 way radio, mechanics are likewise affecting bus changes due to breakdowns, other issues regarding bus safety as mechanics have to use electronic monitoring devices whilst bus is being driven ( not happening now), I would expect the city tour buses to be affected in the near future as well, as driver delivers the guided tour over a headset, ( how is that safer than listening to a radio ?)

thomasj

cdebru wrote:

Do you think, management have removed the radios from their company cars ? In the interests of safety ? I think DB have stupidly walked themselves into a corner, we have seen the port tunnel, their drivers are refusing to deal with the controllers over the 2 way radio, mechanics are likewise affecting bus changes due to breakdowns, other issues regarding bus safety as mechanics have to use electronic monitoring devices whilst bus is being driven ( not happening now), I would expect the city tour buses to be affected in the near future as well, as driver delivers the guided tour over a headset, ( how is that safer than listening to a radio ?)

That's my point . if people were told to remove radios from cars do you think db management would be in a hurry to take them out in the interest of safety?

devnull

Sounds like a smokescreen for me, the drivers are looking for a clause to be created that allows them to have radios in the cab, that will allow any driver to have one in the cab, just in case they need the port tunnel, rather than asking just the very limited number of drivers to have radios.

Something similar to about using centre doors, the often brought up labour court ruling about not being forced to use centre doors when it is unsafe, which is always used as a justification for not using centre doors regardless of the reason for not using them.

thomasj

devnull wrote:

Sounds like a smokescreen for me, the drivers are looking for a clause to be created that allows them to have radios in the cab, that will allow any driver to have one in the cab, just in case they need the port tunnel, rather than asking just the very limited number of drivers to have radios.

devnull wrote:

Something similar to about using centre doors, the often brought up labour court ruling about not being forced to use centre doors when it is unsafe, which is always used as a justification for not using centre doors regardless of the reason for not using them.

If I had to drive around in a car or van for hours including being stuck in traffic without being able listen to music or radio i would go insane within weeks!

charlietheminxx

Is the boycott of the tunnel going ahead does anyone know? I get the 33x daily and will need to figure out a different route to work if so.

BTW I think the radio ban is ridiculous. I couldn't stand the bus without something to listen to and I wouldn't expect the drivers to either!

snickerpuss

I'm shocked everyone sympathises with the bus drivers. Train drivers are not allowed to listen to the radio or anything else. Even their phones must be off at all times even if they are on their break on a train in a station siding with no passengers. Bus drivers need to get over it.

end of the road

snickerpuss wrote: »

Bus drivers need to get over it.

they don't. they have a right to have an issue with it if they so wish. same as the train drivers would have a right to raise the issue with the union and the company if they feel the bann is unwarrented