Paddy Power guilty of encouraging problem gambler to bet more

mansize

Paddy Power admits it told staff to encourage a possible gambling addict to keep gambling

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/paddy-power-admits-it-told-staff-to-encourage-a-possible-gambling-addict-to-keep-gambling-a6903336.html

The "cheeky Chappie" and "King of Banter" isn't so friendly and caring as he made out...

Has gambling become far more prevalent in today's society? Have the bookies carefully managed to sanitise their image so that betting is seen as far more acceptable than it used be????

Is problem gambling a ticking time bomb in Irelamd today? I know far more young people betting than ever and the taboos once associated with it are now gone

Sports TV is full of gambling ads and day time tv, online bingo.

When I used work in a bookies the amount of people that stayed in the shop all day everyday was frightening

Is this something we should have more controls of as a society or is it a case of tough and a bookie has no duty of care up their customers?

Speedwell

Duty of care? What next, a restaurant being held liable for obesity? Retail shops being held liable for running up credit card balances?

_Tombstone_

Speedwell wrote: »

Duty of care? What next, a restaurant being held liable for obesity? Retail shops being held liable for running up credit card balances?

Yea, like they are the same.

Speedwell

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Yea, like they are the same.

Do go on. Why aren't they?

thomasm

All betting sites should have to me made display a running total of clients winnings/losses over the years on the home screen when someone logs in. A simple plus or minus figure. Most people have no idea how much they lose and if they saw this it would be a wake up call for some

Ice Maiden

Speedwell wrote: »

Do go on. Why aren't they?

Significant difference between a company offering a product and people with addiction issues availing of it... versus a company actively taking steps to ensure that a specific customer in the throes of addiction and at their lowest ebb remains a frequent customer when they're trying to keep away from the place.

smash

Their business model is to prey on the weak and make betting seem attractive. Their marketing manager's official title is "Head of mischief" ffs. What exactly do people expect from bookies?

biko

What's next, pubs not serving too drunk people?

PC gone mad.

thelad95

thomasm wrote: »

All betting sites should have to me made display a running total of clients winnings/losses over the years on the home screen when someone logs in. A simple plus or minus figure. Most people have no idea how much they lose and if they saw this it would be a wake up call for some

The thing is it wouldn't be, for problem gamblers, the big win that gets them out of trouble is always on the way. They know they've lost loads anyway, it won't stop them.

Gambling companies are out to make money. In the industry nowadays, betting shops are actually loss leaders, Paddy Power is booming because of its online business not because of the grotty kips on nearly every street corner in Ireland. The only people who legally have a duty of care to their customers are publicans, should bookmakers?

biko

biko wrote: »

What's next, pubs not serving too drunk people?

PC gone mad.

It's an offence for a pub to serve alcohol to a drunk person!!
Believe it or not

1hnr79jr65

bubblypop wrote: »

It's an offence for a pub to serve alcohol to a drunk person!!
Believe it or not

Who's responsibility is it to determine which patrons are drunk, how is this measured, and what protection to the folks doing the measuring have from potential defamation cases?

Ice Maiden

smash wrote: »

Their business model is to prey on the weak and make betting seem attractive. Their marketing manager's official title is "Head of mischief" ffs. What exactly do people expect from bookies?

"exactly"? A line. Not deliberately making a point of suckering back in a specific individual who's in a bad way.

I am a personal responsibility nazi usually but when an organisation uses unethical tactics outside of their business mandate the line is crossed.

Sour Lemonz

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Who's responsibility is it to determine which patrons are drunk, how is this measured, and what protection to the folks doing the measuring have from potential defamation cases?

I'm not sure, but I would imagine it's up to the barman. There are fines for the guilty barperson, so I'd imagine the fact that they believed the person to be drunk is more than enough to cover them.

Riamfada

biko wrote: »

What's next, pubs not serving too drunk people?

PC gone mad.

I think the equivalent would be pubs targeting the local alcoholics and encouraging them to keep drinking. Kind of a Moe/Barney type of situation.

Ice Maiden

Since biko said "PC gone mad" I assume they're joking!

1hnr79jr65

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure, but I would imagine it's up to the barman. There are fines for the guilty barperson, so I'd imagine the fact that they believed the person to be drunk is more than enough to cover them.

So if someone is "believed" to be drunk but maybe due to a medical condition or medication the patron is taking what then?

razorblunt

Great twitter account, haven't bet with them in years though.
Betfair exchange for the occasional bet nowadays.

mansize

razorblunt wrote: »

Great twitter account, haven't bet with them in years though.
Betfair exchange for the occasional bet nowadays.

Great if you're 16...

"lad" I think is the term best used to describe that Twitter account

Pedro K

I posted this on another thread about gambling and the industry. I've worked for more than one bookies. I don't anymore.

It's ruthless. I worked in bookies in both Ireland and England, over the phone and in shops.

It can bring out the worst in people. I've dealt with loads of people trying to hide bets from their other halves too. Sometimes they can be terrible to deal with. Whispering over the phone then becoming agitated and abusive because you haven't heard them.

The same people waiting for me to open the shop door in the morning were the same people I would be pushing out the door at ten in the evening while they're reaching for the gaming machine trying to get 'just one more spin,' on roulette.

I've seen grown men (and in some cases women) attack gaming machines, cry, become abusive towards me and my colleagues because they're losing and then try justify it as just a bot of harmless fun.

The bookies say they want you to gamble responsibly. They do in their arse. They want every ****ing penny you have.

Customers with phone accounts are categorised. The more money you lose, the better your category and the quicker your call is dealt with.

If you start to win money the bookie will restrict your betting. You'll ask for €500 win at 10/1 and they'll say you can have €5 t the SP. Keep winning, they'll just close your account.

I saw one man come into my shop, win £500 on a machine, and within 15 minutes he had put that back in plus another £700 from his visa debit card. His daily limit. Every time he came up to put more on he looked like he was going to cry. I really wanted to tell him to stop as he seemed a nice guy, but as the employee you can't do that.

Another dude once won a €45k return on his phone account. I'm sure he told everyone about it. What he didn't tell everyone, I would bet, is that he gave it back to us (and then some) in a week and a half.

Not that it's any justification, but at least with alcohol, generally there's only so much you can have before your body just won't let you take any more.

mansize

razorblunt wrote: »

Great twitter account, haven't bet with them in years though.
Betfair exchange for the occasional bet nowadays.

Same company now

Sour Lemonz

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

So if someone is "believed" to be drunk but maybe due to a medical condition or medication the patron is taking what then?

I have no idea, I merely presume that IF someone was refused for being drunk, and IF that person sued the bsrman for slander, that it would be a valid defence for the barman.
Not a legal expert obvs!

beach_walker

mansize wrote: »

the taboos once associated with it are now gone

When was there ever a taboo on gambling in Ireland??

The online aspect is the biggest change. I can't imagine how hard it is for those with a problem to resist how easy it is now, just download the app. I like a bet now and then (probably more than your average AHer) but this kinda thing doesn't surprise me. I don't like them and lets be honest, bookies are in it to make money. Not to facilitate you "having a laugh" on a novelty bet or any other advertising guff. I've known people who were addicts, it ain't pretty.

stefan.kuntz

Health and safety gone mad.

mansize

beach_walker wrote: »

When was there ever a taboo on gambling in Ireland??

The online aspect is the biggest change. I can't imagine how hard it is for those with a problem to resist how easy it is now, just download the app. I like a bet now and then (probably more than your average AHer) but this kinda thing doesn't surprise me. I don't like them and lets be honest, bookies are in it to make money. Not to facilitate you "having a laugh" on a novelty bet or any other advertising guff. I've known people who were addicts, it ain't pretty.

Believe me there were, dark dirty holes where people wouldn't like to be seen entering- now they dominate the main streets with attractive signage and people meet there

Atlantic Dawn

The Ladbrokes life ads really too the pi$$, it gave the impression someone could bet as their sole form of income

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgCzKQJyWdk

thomasm

thelad95 wrote: »

The thing is it wouldn't be, for problem gamblers, the big win that gets them out of trouble is always on the way. They know they've lost loads anyway, it won't stop them.

Gambling companies are out to make money. In the industry nowadays, betting shops are actually loss leaders, Paddy Power is booming because of its online business not because of the grotty kips on nearly every street corner in Ireland. The only people who legally have a duty of care to their customers are publicans, should bookmakers?

Might not have an impact on the ones already in trouble, but might make someone going down that road think twice

Valetta

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

So if someone is "believed" to be drunk but maybe due to a medical condition or medication the patron is taking what then?

They don't get served.

mansize

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The Ladbrokes life ads really too the pi$$, it gave the impression someone could bet as their sole form of income

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgCzKQJyWdk

Those ads were dreadful- a few fell foul of ASA

brevity

I ****ing hate gambling ads. Any sporting event and the ad breaks are full of them. They should be banned IMO.

"'ave a bang on that" **** off you prat.

Paddy Power and their ilk are on par with those Wonga type companies, praying on the poor and ignorant.

**** the lot of em.

kfallon

Bookmakers are nothing but lying, cowardly PR machines these days who want to have their cake and eat it!

I could list numerous things that make the above statement true but I honestly can't be arsed typing it out!

What Pedro K said above is bang on the money but there's other things that get my goat up!

Most of them wouldn't lay eggs these days! And I'm someone who likes a bet on the racing and football

muppetkiller

My life was more or less ruined by gambling
I've lost more money than I can imagine and only just managed to get out about 6 months ago. I actually banned myself from the shops in town and online but still can see ways to gamble. It's everywhere in all forms of media so impossible to avoid. I really think there has to be restrictions on advertising. Especially in sport. This betting in play nonsense advertised during live matches is now the norm.

You only have to walk into a bookies to see it's no longer old men putting on the twenty €1 bets for the day, It's kids in tracksuits having their lunch in there. And watch as the pens are thrown at the screens in anger/panic as their horse or virtual race loses.

I feel so relieved now when I walk past the ladbrokes and Paddy Powers shops now...and think to myself I'm finally winning ....but it'll be a battle for life

razorblunt

mansize wrote: »

Great if you're 16...

"lad" I think is the term best used to describe that Twitter account

I don't think it falls under "lad", you'd have been more accurate using "bants" to be honest.

kfallon

muppetkiller wrote: »

My life was more or less ruined by gambling
I've lost more money than I can imagine and only just managed to get out about 6 months ago. I actually banned myself from the shops in town and online but still can see ways to gamble. It's everywhere in all forms of media so impossible to avoid. I really think there has to be restrictions on advertising. Especially in sport. This betting in play nonsense advertised during live matches is now the norm.

You only have to walk into a bookies to see it's no longer old men putting on the twenty €1 bets for the day, It's kids in tracksuits having their lunch in there. And watch as the pens are thrown at the screens in anger/panic as their horse or virtual race loses.

I feel so relieved now when I walk past the ladbrokes and Paddy Powers shops now...and think to myself I'm finally winning ....but it'll be a battle for life

I hope you win that battle my friend, it'll be the greatest 'winner' you've ever had!

stefan.kuntz

kfallon wrote: »

I hope you win that battle my friend, it'll be the greatest 'winner' you've ever had!

I see what you did there. Very good.

mansize

razorblunt wrote: »

I don't think it falls under "lad", you'd have been more accurate using "bants" to be honest.

Two words I equally despise

suicide_circus

Seen a guy lose his home and run out on his wife and kids over gambling. I feel lucky in that I get absolutely no buzz out of it whatsoever.

BrokenArrows

bubblypop wrote: »

It's an offence for a pub to serve alcohol to a drunk person!!
Believe it or not

Should be fairly easy to get fired from a bar job then and then sue for unfair dismissal.
If you follow the law and don't server drunk people then a pub will never make any money.

MarinersBlues

Pedro K wrote: »

I posted this on another thread about gambling and the industry. I've worked for more than one bookies. I don't anymore.

I worked in shops and as a complier and a trader for years.

I loved the job but am delighted to be out of the business.
It is EXACTLY as Pedro described.
The closer you get to the top the more cynical it becomes.

I would have argued that there was a social aspect and even an aspect of morals to the shops and betting rings but there are NO mitigating factors for the business in the form it has taken now. Online has ruined any good there was in betting.

It needs to be stopped.
I don't think there is any concept of the level of problem gambling out there.

cdeb

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

So if someone is "believed" to be drunk but maybe due to a medical condition or medication the patron is taking what then?

I presume you mean what if they appear drunk, but actually it's just a side-effect of medication they're on? (I think you've left out a couple of words)

Firstly, a lot of medication comes with instructions not to drink. Antibiotics obviously, but plenty of other stuff too. Aspirin, GTN, etc.

Secondly, if someone appears drunk but isn't, it could be an indication of something potentially serious like hyperglycaemia. Head injuries can also give symptoms similar to drunkenness. Needless to say, at that stage, they need medical attention, not another pint. So if someone who appears drunk but isn't asks for more drink, you should refuse.

Would fully support stricter controls on gambling - though not sure what the best controls would be? Daily limits are easily circumvented by different accounts/bookies. Banning apps - which make it almost too easy to gamble - seems a bit of overkill. A life-tally (up or down) on the screen - might help I guess.

Hulk Hands

It looks like a single employee cock up where they probably thought a high value customer was betting elsewhere instead of there, and failed to heed the warnings on his problems. To be fair to PP, theyve owned up as a company and given 280k to a good cause. There's incompetence in the odd employee in every company. The entire industry does need to tighten up on the problem gambling aspect alright, although they've been doing a lot more in the last 2 years

mansize

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It looks like a single employee cock up where they probably thought a high value customer was betting elsewhere instead of there, and failed to heed the warnings on his problems. To be fair to PP, theyve owned up as a company and given 280k to a good cause. There's incompetence in the odd employee in every company. The entire industry does need to tighten up on the problem gambling aspect alright, although they've been doing a lot more in the last 2 years

It was a case of being caught rather than owning up tbf.

They were FINED it wasn't an altruistic gensture on their part

Hulk Hands

mansize wrote: »

It was a case of being caught rather than owning up tbf.

They were FINED it wasn't an altruistic gensture on their part

How is the company supposed to own up to something they didn't know was happening in a shop when the issue is that a shop manager didn't report it. They've owned up as a company rather than through the rouge manager under the bus is what I mean. And it's not a fine, it's been an agreed fee which is unprecedented in its size for a case like this which is actually quite common with UK bookies

osarusan

Do bookies have some obligation to identify potentially vulnerable/addicted customers for the purposes of helping them in some way?

mansize

Hulk Hands wrote: »

How is the company supposed to own up to something they didn't know was happening in a shop when the issue is that a shop manager didn't report it. They've owned up as a company rather than through the rouge manager under the bus is what I mean. And it's not a fine, it's been an agreed fee which is unprecedented in its size for a case like this which is actually quite common with UK bookies

It would be Naieve to think it's a "Rogue Manager" I've working in bookmakers, exploitation is the name of the game

mansize

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It looks like a single employee cock up where they probably thought a high value customer was betting elsewhere instead of there, and failed to heed the warnings on his problems. To be fair to PP, theyve owned up as a company and given 280k to a good cause. There's incompetence in the odd employee in every company. The entire industry does need to tighten up on the problem gambling aspect alright, although they've been doing a lot more in the last 2 years

The Irish gambling group – which merged this year with Betfair – has been slammed by the UK’s Gambling Commission for its failings, and voluntarily agreed to pay £280,000 (€357,000) to a “socially responsible cause” In lieu of a financial penalty.

It's like contributing to the poor box instead of a fine... They were facing a fine- this just saves some face

Hulk Hands

mansize wrote: »

It's like contributing to the poor box instead of a fine... They were facing a fine- this just saves some face

So you now agree it's not a fine then? Also for accurate reflection, perhaps try get your article from industry sources rather than drivel from the Independent UK

Your Face

What are the odds?

KomradeBishop

Why not force such companies to, prior to every bet, display their overall odds of the average person winning against them? Then followed by the total losses their customers have made in the last year.

Kind of like cigarette packet warnings in a way.

It's an industry based on pure exploitation of the worst kind - where they actively want people to ruin their lives, so that they can provide all of their money.

kfallon

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Why not force such companies to, prior to every bet, display their overall odds of the average person winning against them? Then followed by the total losses their customers have made in the last year.

I'm confused by the bolded part tbh

Also any online account will have a record of how much somebody has lost/won as you can go in and look at your betting history!

cdeb

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Why not force such companies to, prior to every bet, display their overall odds of the average person winning against them?

They do display the average odds. You can even work out their margin in stuff like football matches (where there's three possible outcomes, adding up to 110%)

You can't tell someone what the odds are that they'll win their specific 5/1 stake on Cork City to win the LoI because nobody knows that - it's based on a future event.

But every gambler knows they're better than average, so I don't think that would be too effective to be honest.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I've seen grown men (and in some cases women) attack gaming machines, cry

Hardly that extreme.I used to react like that when I lost a game of football manager and there wasn't even any money at stake.