How to get Excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church?

Kiwi in IE

Absolam wrote: »

I don't think everyone is supposed to fear it; it's a form of censure. When applied it's supposed to make a Catholic aware that they are at odds with the Church and need to mend their ways (from the Church's point of view).

The Church doesn't say that no one is 'allowed to leave though'. It says that "the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection." So not so much that one can't leave as the bond of belonging cannot be lost; even if one 'leaves' (which kind of misses the concept) on returning one is treated as having never left.
I wouldn't lose any sleep about it; as far as the Church was concerned an act of defection didn't sever the bond of baptism anyway, so countmeout didn't achieve anything other than letting people feel they achieved something.
That said, I wouldn't have lost any sleep about it in the first place.....

These assertions are nonsensical and extremely arrogant (not your post, the position of the RCC on the matter). If a person decides that they do not believe in the RC religion, or God at all, and that they have no bond with the RC church, then they do not. It is not for the church to decide whether or not a person has a bond with them. I swore allegiance to the Girlguides once, however I am not a Girlguide and do not have any bond with the organisation. Babies and children do not choose to be baptised, so the RCC claiming a forced 'eternal bond' is completely illegitimate in the world of logic (from which I do realise they are far removed).

Bristolscale7

Related, the Mormons posthumously baptise Jews.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/jews-take-issue-with-posthumous-mormon-baptisms-beliefs.html?_r=0

lazygal

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

Related, the Mormons posthumously baptise Jews.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/jews-take-issue-with-posthumous-mormon-baptisms-beliefs.html?_r=0

They baptise anyone who didn't die as a Mormon. Not just jews.

Huntergonzo

I thought once or twice about writing to the local bishop to see if I could formally leave the church. But then I thought fúck that, that only gives them the power of refusal so I decided to formally declared myself a non-catholic, it's quick, simple and satisfying.

So there you have it, I'm offically no longer a catholic because I said so, now put that in your pipe and smoke it! :-)

Pherekydes

Misael Immense Case wrote: »

I take it that since you're posting in A&A that you're not catholic so its a mute point really.

It's not a mute point; he's being very vocal about it.

galljga1

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

These assertions are nonsensical and extremely arrogant (not your post, the position of the RCC on the matter). If a person decides that they do not believe in the RC religion, or God at all, and that they have no bond with the RC church, then they do not. It is not for the church to decide whether or not a person has a bond with them. I swore allegiance to the Girlguides once, however I am not a Girlguide and do not have any bond with the organisation. Babies and children do not choose to be baptised, so the RCC claiming a forced 'eternal bond' is completely illegitimate in the world of logic (from which I do realise they are far removed).

I hear you collect stamps.

lazygal

Pherekydes wrote: »

It's not a mute point; he's being very vocal about it.

Would it be a moot point maybe?

magicbastarder

i think you missed the joke.

Absolam

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

These assertions are nonsensical and extremely arrogant (not your post, the position of the RCC on the matter). If a person decides that they do not believe in the RC religion, or God at all, and that they have no bond with the RC church, then they do not. It is not for the church to decide whether or not a person has a bond with them. I swore allegiance to the Girlguides once, however I am not a Girlguide and do not have any bond with the organisation. Babies and children do not choose to be baptised, so the RCC claiming a forced 'eternal bond' is completely illegitimate in the world of logic (from which I do realise they are far removed).

I think if you see the assertions as nonsensical or arrogant you're simply failing to see the Church's point of view; if you could, you'd see they're neither nonsensical or arrogant. To be entirely fair I would suggest that far more thought and consideration has gone into how the Catholic Church perceives the sacrament of baptism than has gone into your own assertion that it is 'completely illegitimate in the world of logic'.

But it only makes a difference if you want to participate in the Church. If you don't, what their opinion on the state of your soul is will not make any difference to you.

PS Did you really swear allegiance to the Girl Guides? The Girl Guides I know never swore allegiance to the organisation, though they promised to obey the Girl Guide Law :-)

Cabaal

Absolam wrote: »

I think if you see the assertions as nonsensical or arrogant you're simply failing to see the Church's point of view; if you could, you'd see they're neither nonsensical or arrogant. To be entirely fair I would suggest that far more thought and consideration has gone into how the Catholic Church perceives the sacrament of baptism than has gone into your own assertion that it is 'completely illegitimate in the world of logic'.

But it only makes a difference if you want to participate in the Church. If you don't, what their opinion on the state of your soul is will not make any difference to you.

Thats not the case at all though, many people are understandably extremely offended by the church's stance on a number of issues and the abuse they allowed to happen. As such they want NOTHING to do with the organisation upto and including the church listing them as a member.

Its only right for the church to remove members who do in no way want to be associated with it anymore.

You seem to think its ok for the church to refuse to do this, but ask yourself this. If your parents made you a member of the KKK when you were born and the KKK still classed you as a member and refused to strike you off your membership list would you be ok with that?

Sure you may not be a practicing KKK member but if they believed "once a KKK'er always a KKK'er" you're telling me you'd be fine with the KKK still listing you as a member?

Kiwi in IE

Absolam wrote: »

PS Did you really swear allegiance to the Girl Guides? The Girl Guides I know never swore allegiance to the organisation, though they promised to obey the Girl Guide Law :-)

Haha I can't remember exactly what way it was, so looked it up. OK, it wasn't exactly an oath of allegiance, but one has to make a promise to 'live by girl guide law'. Because I made that promise when I was 10 however, it would be a bit silly if the NZ Girl Guides stated that they hold me to it now, and consider me a current member of the NZ Girl Guides, because I made that promise as a 10 year old. Similar to the RCC's stance on baptism.

https://www.girlguidingnz.org.nz/about-us/about-girlguiding-new-zealand/promise-and-law

Absolam

Cabaal wrote: »

Thats not the case at all though, many people are understandably extremely offended by the church's stance on a number of issues and the abuse they allowed to happen. As such they want NOTHING to do with the organisation upto and including the church listing them as a member.

That's perfectly understandable. Even though the Church doesn't list them as a member, I understand a desire to disassociate oneself from an organisation one is fundamentally at odds with, but claiming their theological assertions are nonsensical and extremely arrogant is simply failing to grasp what they're saying in those assertions.

Cabaal wrote: »

Its only right for the church to remove members who do in no way want to be associated with it anymore.

The Church doesn't claim to have members; it's not a club. Nor is there any reason think it's only right that it should remove members who don't want to be associated with it, it's right that those members should remove themselves.

Cabaal wrote: »

You seem to think its ok for the church to refuse to do this, but ask yourself this. If your parents made you a member of the KKK when you were born and the KKK still classed you as a member and refused to strike you off your membership list would you be ok with that?

I've taken the time to consider what the meaning of baptism is within the Church, and what it entails. It means I can see why your comparison is fundamentally flawed, but if you don't want to take the time to understand it, see if you can get a membership list of the Catholic Church. If you can't find your name on the Church's membership list, will you agree you don't need to have your name taken off it?

Cabaal wrote: »

Sure you may not be a practicing KKK member but if they believed "once a KKK'er always a KKK'er" you'd telling me you'd be fine with the KKK still listing you as a member?

Like I said, the comparison is fundamentally flawed; the Church doesn't refuse to take peoples names off its membership list. It doesn't have a membership list. It doesn't have members; the Catechism states "we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission" and 'Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another."72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church." The principle is that people aren't members of the Church, people are the Church.

Absolam

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Haha I can't remember exactly what way it was, so looked it up. OK, it wasn't exactly an oath of allegiance, but one has to make a promise to 'live by girl guide law'. Because I made that promise when I was 10 however, it would be a bit silly if the NZ Girl Guides stated that they hold me to it now, and consider me a current member of the NZ Girl Guides, because I made that promise as a 10 year old. Similar to the RCC's stance on baptism.

If you don't still try to live by the Girl Guide Law Kiwi, then I'm very disappointed in you, even if the Girl Guides don't come after you to hold you to it The Kiwi Girl Guide Law (in fact most of the Scouting Laws I've come across) is not a bad set of rules to live your life by.

Law
As a Guide I will try to:
be honest and trustworthy.
be friendly and cheerful.
be a good team member.
be responsible for what I say and do.
respect and help other people.
use my time and abilities wisely.
face challenges and learn from experiences.
care for the environment.

FishOnABike

galljga1 wrote: »

I hear you collect stamps.

Should we all collect stamps now ?

Kiwi in IE

Absolam wrote: »

If you don't still try to live by the Girl Guide Law Kiwi, then I'm very disappointed in you, even if the Girl Guides don't come after you to hold you to it The Kiwi Girl Guide Law (in fact most of the Scouting Laws I've come across) is not a bad set of rules to live your life by.

Law
As a Guide I will try to:
be honest and trustworthy.
be friendly and cheerful.
be a good team member.
be responsible for what I say and do.
respect and help other people.
use my time and abilities wisely.
face challenges and learn from experiences.
care for the environment.

I am currently sitting wasting lots of time on Boards. I have failed the Girl Guides. Will I be excommunicated?

wokingvoter

Absolam on this forum cheers me up at the end of a long working day. His calm patient reasoning is a joy to behold, and you are all very lucky that he's here to answer so many, many questions.

Shrap

wokingvoter wrote: »

Absolam on this forum cheers me up at the end of a long working day. His calm patient reasoning is a joy to behold, and you are all very lucky that he's here to answer so many, many questions.

....and in such detail too :pac: Whatever turns you on really. I personally prefer to read people reasoning out their own opinions rather than reasoning for the sake of being the most reasonable.

wokingvoter

Shrap wrote: »

....and in such detail too :pac: Whatever turns you on really. I personally prefer to read people reasoning out their own opinions rather than reasoning for the sake of being the most reasonable.

Yep, he surely is a thorn in your side!

Absolam

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I am currently sitting wasting lots of time on Boards. I have failed the Girl Guides. Will I be excommunicated?

Dunno... some of those Brown Owls were pretty tough cookies as I recall, so you might be in for at least a stern talking to if they catch up with you. You should probably put down the keyboard and go and help some old people with their shopping

EDIT: Which is not to infer help with shopping is the best use of your time and abilities! Only that it is one of the things we were exhorted to do when I was a young cub scout.

Absolam

Shrap wrote: »

....and in such detail too :pac: Whatever turns you on really. I personally prefer to read people reasoning out their own opinions rather than reasoning for the sake of being the most reasonable.

If it makes you feel more turned on (though I can't imagine how), it is my opinion that trying to be reasonable when reasoning out your opinions often results in a more reasonable opinion

Shrap

Absolam wrote: »

If it makes you feel more turned on (though I can't imagine how), it is my opinion that trying to be reasonable when reasoning out your opinions often results in a more reasonable opinion

Boom!

You do so well when you use less words Absolam! Mind you, you're not the only one. Maybe I'll try reading one of your tit for tats with Nozz again tomorrow, although I usually come away from them feeling like I'd have been better off wondering whether a puppy or a two year old would make less mess with candyfloss, till someone breaks out the baby wipes.

Absolam

Shrap wrote: »

Boom! You do so well when you use less words Absolam! Mind you, you're not the only one. Maybe I'll try reading one of your tit for tats with Nozz again tomorrow, although I usually come away from them feeling like I'd have been better off wondering whether a puppy or a two year old would make less mess with candyfloss, till someone breaks out the baby wipes.

I'd exhort you not to bother; it hardly seems worth the effort to me, I can't imagine it's worth the effort to anyone else.

endacl

topmanamillion wrote: »

Anyone know of a way to do this? That doesn't involve 7 trials or a bit of alone time in the desert.
I'd be really interested in getting excommunicated.
There'd be a novelty factor to it and any excommunication that I got would be framed and have pride of place.

Kick Bishop Brennan up the arse.

Shrap

Absolam wrote: »

I'd exhort you not to bother; it hardly seems worth the effort to me, I can't imagine it's worth the effort to anyone else.

Then why?! Why, on earth do you make the effort?! Is it like the mountain.....because it's there?


Sigh. I feel the urge to go add some interest to the currently unreadable abortion thread before sleep. Night.

Absolam

Shrap wrote: »

Then why?! Why, on earth do you make the effort?! Is it like the mountain.....because it's there?
Sigh. I feel the urge to go add some interest to the currently unreadable abortion thread before sleep. Night.

Mmm... sometimes, yes And I'm often bored whilst others slumber. Sleep well.

Kiwi in IE

I think Absolam wants to put us off posting our heathen views

Occasionally when I see Absolam has replied to one of my posts, particularly at a time when I should be doing other things, my first thought is "Oh ****e! Now I'm in this for the long haul!"

Absolam

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think Absolam wants to put us off posting our heathen views
Occasionally when I see Absolam has replied to one of my posts, particularly at a time when I should be doing other things, my first thought is "Oh ****e! Now I'm in this for the long haul!"

Gosh no! And please, don't feel any obligation; there's practically nothing you should be doing irl that could be less important than reading what I say here.

Kiwi in IE

Absolam wrote: »

Gosh no! And please, don't feel any obligation; there's practically nothing you should be doing irl that could be less important than reading what I say here.

And now you have reminded me that by spending time arguing on Boards, I am in breach of the Girl Guide laws! I wonder will I be forgiven if I confess to a Girl Guide leader?

Absolam

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

And now you have reminded me that by spending time arguing on Boards, I am in breach of the Girl Guide laws! I wonder will I be forgiven if I confess to a Girl Guide leader?

I'm not sure I want to be considering the kind of penance a Girl Guide leader might exact for such moral turpitude. Some of them were inclined to inventiveness as I recall from group camps.

Samaris

As I recall from Brigins, the promise went something as follows;

"On my honour with the grace of God, I [name] promise to do my best to serve God and his Holy Church (to...something, something else, I've forgotten something), to help one another at all times and to keep the Brigin Law."