glas bird boxes

iron man

A neighbour of mine got an an spection on thurs of last week. The lovely inspector brought his own ladder to climb a tree and check out a box. Turns out all the boxes have to have hingable lids. This is not on any of the drawings? Whats the story lads?

50HX

that's a joke

checked both websites that the dept give on the glas plan and not a mention of hingeable lids...

he should ask for clarification as to where it says this is required

are these inspections going to head down the road of bord bia...make it up as you go along to a degree

i reckon they'll focus heavy on the bird & bat boxes as there is 1.5millon to be paid out on this measure

Nobbies

Plus 1 on all above mentioned.they make these things up as they go along.power tripping civil servants.

paddysdream

Do the bird/bat/bee boxes not have to be in place until the end of March?

Went for the max. amount here of each so had better slap a few together as soon as the lambing eases off.

ganmo

I heard something about that, think it's so that you can clean out the box...we just screwed outs on so they'll be easily enough opened

Cavanjack

Between nearly voting ff back into government and making houses for birds have we finally lost it?
I have to get a few myself but what will it achieve? Do the birds nest in them or take shelter in them or what.
Wouldn't they have been better making it compulsory for every lad entering glas to grow 2 trees and give us the few extra pound for that.

paddysdream

Cavanjack wrote: »

Between nearly voting ff back into government and making houses for birds have we finally lost it?
I have to get a few myself but what will it achieve? Do the birds nest in them or take shelter in them or what.
Wouldn't they have been better making it compulsory for every lad entering glas to grow 2 trees and give us the few extra pound for that.

Does anyone actually care if they are ever used as long as they fullfill the terms of the scheme?
Enough of trees in the country already without making it compulsory to sow more esp. on good land.

sonnybill

I bought mine .. They made to spec and one side pivots on a nail so you can open it .. No hinge though!

I'm in GLAS 2 so I've til June to get them up n out but will try and get them in before birds start nesting as June isn't worth it for this year as birds will have nesting sites chosen

ganmo

I've to plant 450 trees here too

Cavanjack

paddysdream wrote: »

Does anyone actually care if they are ever used as long as they fullfill the terms of the scheme?
Enough of trees in the country already without making it compulsory to sow more esp. on good land.

Of course nobody cares as long as the money goes into the bank but is there nobody to stop the madness? My point is it's supposed to be a low carbon scheme. Two trees growing in a ditch for the next 60 years would be better than a few boxes that will be rotten before the scheme ends. As far as I'm concerned There can never be enough trees growing in ditches and field corners.
In years to come when every bird lives in a box people will say "it's hard to believe birds used to live in trees".

Muckit

That's a pub story if ever there was one. What he brought his own ladder and hawked it through the fields!?

Anyways why would inspector come out when they haven't to be up til end of March?

Tell that inspector lad he better have room for a canoe on that roof rack if he's coming out here.

Woodville56

paddysdream wrote: »

Does anyone actually care if they are ever used as long as they fullfill the terms of the scheme?
Enough of trees in the country already without making it compulsory to sow more esp. on good land.

Attitude to the provision of nestboxes and nest/roosting cover for birds by way of trees is a bit mercenary there paddystream ? There is a well documented decrease in farmland bird populations despite the inducements offered to improve bird habitats on farmland through Reps, Glas etc. Sadly, from the tone of some of the posts here, the farming community see no intrinsic value in enhancing bird habitats, it's all about the money right ?

paddysdream

Woodville56 wrote: »

Attitude to the provision of nestboxes and nest/roosting cover for birds by way of trees is a bit mercenary there paddystream ? There is a well documented decrease in farmland bird populations despite the inducements offered to improve bird habitats on farmland through Reps, Glas etc. Sadly, from the tone of some of the posts here, the farming community see no intrinsic value in enhancing bird habitats, it's all about the money right ?

Well yes to be honest its all about the money.Another few birds nesting,whilst maybe nice to look at,will not buy many sliced pans for me.

Civil service come up with their ideas,mad or otherwise, and its up to us to make the best of it.Hen Harrier scheme is a prime example of that.

yosemitesam1

Cavanjack wrote: »

Of course nobody cares as long as the money goes into the bank but is there nobody to stop the madness? My point is it's supposed to be a low carbon scheme. Two trees growing in a ditch for the next 60 years would be better than a few boxes that will be rotten before the scheme ends. As far as I'm concerned There can never be enough trees growing in ditches and field corners.
In years to come when every bird lives in a box people will say "it's hard to believe birds used to live in trees".

Not in glas or reps here but have been sticking up some here the last few years , they cost fcuk all to stick together and they seem to be in use.
Build it and they will come

Birdnuts

paddysdream wrote: »

Well yes to be honest its all about the money.Another few birds nesting,whilst maybe nice to look at,will not buy many sliced pans for me.

.

Whats the big deal about putting up a few bird boxes around the place and a few extra trees/hedging?? No one is forced into GLAS. Compared to agri-environmental schemes in other countries many would call it money for old rope.

paddysdream

Birdnuts wrote: »

Whats the big deal about putting up a few bird boxes around the place and a few extra trees/hedging?? No one is forced into GLAS. Compared to agri-environmental schemes in other countries many would call it money for old rope.

There is no big deal re. putting up bird boxes.Wouldn't be my cup of tea but each to his own.

Not complaining about Glas as it looks like money for old rope.Just being honest about my interest in sowing hedging/erecting bird boxes.For most farmers once the fulfill the terms and conditions then thats enough.Fair play to anyone who does these off their own bat.
My point is that very very few have any vested interest in these schemes.Farmers see them as a chance to get a few bob with minimum effort and cost and civil service see these schemes as a way to make work and justify their existance and divvy up the money from pillar 2.
For the minister its a way of throwing a few bob around.

Birdnuts

paddysdream wrote: »

There is no big deal re. putting up bird boxes.Wouldn't be my cup of tea but each to his own.

Not complaining about Glas as it looks like money for old rope.Just being honest about my interest in sowing hedging/erecting bird boxes.For most farmers once the fulfill the terms and conditions then thats enough.Fair play to anyone who does these off their own bat.
My point is that very very few have any vested interest in these schemes.Farmers see them as a chance to get a few bob with minimum effort and cost and civil service see these schemes as a way to make work and justify their existance and divvy up the money from pillar 2.
For the minister its a way of throwing a few bob around.

I agree that such schemes in this country have been poorly designed and targetted in many cases - which is probably why the results on the conservation front have been poor to date. Personally I'd like to see a results based scheme along the lines of the UK Countryside Stewardship payment which rewards farmers in proportion to the amount and effectiveness of measures carried out.

Woodville56

paddysdream wrote: »

There is no big deal re. putting up bird boxes.Wouldn't be my cup of tea but each to his own.

Not complaining about Glas as it looks like money for old rope.Just being honest about my interest in sowing hedging/erecting bird boxes.For most farmers once the fulfill the terms and conditions then thats enough.Fair play to anyone who does these off their own bat.
My point is that very very few have any vested interest in these schemes.Farmers see them as a chance to get a few bob with minimum effort and cost and civil service see these schemes as a way to make work and justify their existance and divvy up the money from pillar 2.
For the minister its a way of throwing a few bob around.

I think it's a bit unfair to claim that very few have any vested interest in these schemes or their outcomes. There are some really dedicated and hardworking people in the likes of Birdwatch Ireland, Irish Wildlife Trust etc who really do work hard to promote biodiversity and advocate for wildlife through through work with local communities projects etc. I'd agree that the operation and management of some of these schemes is a bit hamfisted, but there is a lot of individual and community inputs and interest in maintaining and supporting our wildlife, including many in the farming community who value and appreciate their local wildlife.

Capercaillie

Cavanjack wrote: »

Of course nobody cares as long as the money goes into the bank but is there nobody to stop the madness? My point is it's supposed to be a low carbon scheme. Two trees growing in a ditch for the next 60 years would be better than a few boxes that will be rotten before the scheme ends. As far as I'm concerned There can never be enough trees growing in ditches and field corners.
In years to come when every bird lives in a box people will say "it's hard to believe birds used to live in trees".

Put up a good quality nest box and it will last a long time. Put up the cheapest one and it will fall apart within a short time.

Capercaillie

Birdnuts wrote: »

I agree that such schemes in this country have been poorly designed and targetted in many cases - which is probably why the results on the conservation front have been poor to date. Personally I'd like to see a results based scheme along the lines of the UK Countryside Stewardship payment which rewards farmers in proportion to the amount and effectiveness of measures carried out.

IFA/DAFM wanted watered down schemes where farmers would get the cash for absolute minimum effort. Proper Schemes that would actually help wildlife like harriers were opposed!

Capercaillie

paddysdream wrote: »

Does anyone actually care if they are ever used as long as they fullfill the terms of the scheme?
Enough of trees in the country already without making it compulsory to sow more esp. on good land.

Ireland (excluding Iceland) has the lowest proportion of native forest/tree cover in Europe. Most farmland species like corncrake, grey partridge, lapwings, breeding curlew, redshank all but gone.

my3cents

Out of interest does anyone have a link to the specification of the bird boxes?

Muckit

my3cents wrote: »

Out of interest does anyone have a link to the specification of the bird boxes?

There are no official specifications. There are design 'suggestions.' with poorly accompanied photos l might add. The bee boxes had me scratching my head for a while until l seen whoever had cut and pasted the photos had them in at an angle!!

I would agree with most people that have already posted. I'm in GLAS first and foremost for the money (the bit there is). But l also would have an interest in the conservation side. l do see it as part of our remit especially as extensive farmers to be custodians of the countryside. If we can look after nature cost effectively in tandem with our primary enterprise, then why not?

I also feel to have a better buy-in from farmers a compulsory day or two of training and education in conservation should have been part of GLAS. It should have been in REPS AEOS also. It's only a paper filling exercise and not a genuine attempt to conserve wildlife if measures are only carried out for the sake of it. Why not show farmers the advantages to nature AND to their farming enterprise from the measures they will be carrying out.

Take for example the aforementioned bird houses. If there was a course, the reason for needing a removable section to allow access for cleaning out the boxes annually would have been explained. The importance of the correct sizing of the holes etc.

Same for Low emission slurry and beneficial effects on earthworm population which in turn helps soil which in turn helps grass growth.

This is just a few examples off top of my head, but you get the jest.

paddysdream

Capercaillie wrote: »

Ireland (excluding Iceland) has the lowest proportion of native forest/tree cover in Europe. Most farmland species like corncrake, grey partridge, lapwings, breeding curlew, redshank all but gone.

Well at least we are leading Europe in one thing !!!.

Maybe its the inner Philistine in me but apart from the novelty factor and some auld lad saying"Jasus but tis years since I heard a corncrake" in the big scheme of things does it really matter if we lose a few bird species?.Serious question.
Never seen or heard a corncrake etc and to be frankly honest its not something that bothers me.
Us rural folk are oft times accused of living in the past and not willing to embrace change but then at other times people want us to live in an unchanging environment.Is it only certain types of change that is acceptable?
Know all this has little if nothing to do with Glas bird boxes(which I have to erect myself)but some of this stuff can annoy me a tad at times.

Capercaillie

paddysdream wrote: »

Well at least we are leading Europe in one thing !!!.

Maybe its the inner Philistine in me but apart from the novelty factor and some auld lad saying"Jasus but tis years since I heard a corncrake" in the big scheme of things does it really matter if we lose a few bird species?.Serious question.
Never seen or heard a corncrake etc and to be frankly honest its not something that bothers me.
Us rural folk are oft times accused of living in the past and not willing to embrace change but then at other times people want us to live in an unchanging environment.Is it only certain types of change that is acceptable?
Know all this has little if nothing to do with Glas bird boxes(which I have to erect myself)but some of this stuff can annoy me a tad at times.

most people would be like yourself and would not care less if every species in the country became extinct. However species like corncrake have an intrinsic value. They also are a tourist attraction and bring tourists to my area. Money for hotels/restaurants. The country also has a legal obligation to protect these species.

yosemitesam1

paddysdream wrote: »

Well at least we are leading Europe in one thing !!!.

Maybe its the inner Philistine in me but apart from the novelty factor and some auld lad saying"Jasus but tis years since I heard a corncrake" in the big scheme of things does it really matter if we lose a few bird species?.Serious question.
Never seen or heard a corncrake etc and to be frankly honest its not something that bothers me.
Us rural folk are oft times accused of living in the past and not willing to embrace change but then at other times people want us to live in an unchanging environment.Is it only certain types of change that is acceptable?
Know all this has little if nothing to do with Glas bird boxes(which I have to erect myself)but some of this stuff can annoy me a tad at times.

In fairness you cant put a value on maintaing birds, wildflowers etc, in the long term maintaining genetic diversity and an ecologically balanced system is the only way to prevent pests and diseases having major effects on production, you might get on grand without some species but you can't know for sure what effects it will have, much better to play it safe

Grecco

Capercaillie wrote: »

Ireland (excluding Iceland) has the lowest proportion of native forest/tree cover in Europe. Most farmland species like corncrake, grey partridge, lapwings, breeding curlew, redshank all but gone.

Well the farmer can`t be blamed for the corncrake decline, I`d be more inclined to blame the fookers with there big boats on lough Derg. Sure it was them who wanted the levels of the lake kept high all the time so that they can go over and back on the boats. The higher lake levels flooded and destroyed the corncrakes marsh habitats.
Oh those same high lake levels are also the cause of the flooding in Co Clare and upstream of lough Derg this year by keeping the lake artificially high during the summer there was no buffer left for the heavy rain this winter.

paddysdream

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

In fairness you cant put a value on maintaing birds, wildflowers etc, in the long term maintaining genetic diversity and an ecologically balanced system is the only way to prevent pests and diseases having major effects on production, you might get on grand without some species but you can't know for sure what effects it will have, much better to play it safe

See, this is exactly my point.Why can't you put a value/cost on these things?
People claim that they increase tourism etc with all its knock on effects so they can surely tell us exactly how much they contribute to local economies.Very very little I would suspect.
Have no problem with people conserving all these species but if they insist that the are a value to the economy then can we not ask how much and the what would be the cost benefit,if any ,if they disappeared ?
Its an unfair argument if only one side can show a cost benefit.

Maybe all this has very little to do with Glas bird boxes and more with where I see a problem with the general direction of some EU/Gov. policy.Green/conservation/gm free/ecologically sound/organic seems to be a new religion without any real analysis of what good or harm it does.To me its a way of making people feel better and pandering to a certain lobby without any real understanding if it actually makes any difference.

Muckit

Fair point paddyd. I wonder was the caveman too bothered about conserving dinosaurs? Are we any lesscwell off without them? ☺

I'm no expert in conservation but l do know birds, bees etc play a key role in pollination. The decline in bee populations worldwide is in part due to the misuse and possibly overuse of pesticides.

Climate change is the big one though and no government wants to tackle it. Sweep it under the carpet and carry out a few pointless paper exercises and cover it up with stats.
l

yosemitesam1

paddysdream wrote: »

See, this is exactly my point.Why can't you put a value/cost on these things?
People claim that they increase tourism etc with all its knock on effects so they can surely tell us exactly how much they contribute to local economies.Very very little I would suspect.
Have no problem with people conserving all these species but if they insist that the are a value to the economy then can we not ask how much and the what would be the cost benefit,if any ,if they disappeared ?
Its an unfair argument if only one side can show a cost benefit.

Maybe all this has very little to do with Glas bird boxes and more with where I see a problem with the general direction of some EU/Gov. policy.Green/conservation/gm free/ecologically sound/organic seems to be a new religion without any real analysis of what good or harm it does.To me its a way of making people feel better and pandering to a certain lobby without any real understanding if it actually makes any difference.

Theres far too many unknowns for anyone to be able to stick a figure on the value of biodiversity, the majority of microorganisms have yet to be discovered, reducing the genetic diversity of crops has allowed diseases to become much more destructive and remember it is the genetic resources present today that will be the base of the crops that feed the world in the future

paddysdream

Muckit wrote: »

Fair point paddyd. I wonder was the caveman too bothered about conserving dinosaurs? Are we any lesscwell off without them? ☺

I'm no expert in conservation but l do know birds, bees etc play a key role in pollination. The decline in bee populations worldwide is in part due to the misuse and possibly overuse of pesticides.

Climate change is the big one though and no government wants to tackle it. Sweep it under the carpet and carry out a few pointless paper exercises and cover it up with stats.
l

Is climate change not just another version/sect of the same religion.As far as I can see(and many would say not very far) climate change is just another way of raising taxes through fuel/coal/increased electricity bills.

Would not nuclear be a whole lot cheaper if we were actually worried about global warming (is the use of climate change instead of global warming just a way of covering all bases in the event of interested parties being able to change the basis of any debate?) instead of heavily subsidised green energy ?I know nuclear would need state support but at least it can run 24/7/365 like coal or gas.

paddysdream

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Theres far too many unknowns for anyone to be able to stick a figure on the value of biodiversity, the majority of microorganisms have yet to be discovered, reducing the genetic diversity of crops has allowed diseases to become much more destructive and remember it is the genetic resources present today that will be the base of the crops that feed the world in the future

Too many unknowns to put a value on it?But if someone could show the economic and social value of say hen harrier removal to certain parts of the country then would any one accept that?

Bord Bia can do a carbon calculator and claim it will provide x amount of value to meat exports etc(dreamland stuff but hey people need jobs!) so whats the problem with costing other things.
All this fear of the unknown;More a FDR man myself rather than Daniel Rumsfeld.All these unknown known unknowns etc are less relevant than "we have nothing to fear but fear itself !!!!
People are getting worked up about very minor and sometimes irrevelant matters but maybe these are just first world problems.

Birdnuts

paddysdream wrote: »

Too many unknowns to put a value on it?But if someone could show the economic and social value of say hen harrier removal to certain parts of the country then would any one accept that?

Bord Bia can do a carbon calculator and claim it will provide x amount of value to meat exports etc(dreamland stuff but hey people need jobs!) so whats the problem with costing other things.
All this fear of the unknown;More a FDR man myself rather than Daniel Rumsfeld.All these unknown known unknowns etc are less relevant than "we have nothing to fear but fear itself !!!!
People are getting worked up about very minor and sometimes irrevelant matters but maybe these are just first world problems.

The protection of the Hen Harrier,Corn Crake etc protects the entire habitat on what numerous other species depend on. Its not just birds that are declining, the population of bees, butterflies, wildflowers have all declined sharply over the last few decades which has negative consequences on many levels, including the pollination of important crops, protection of soil structure etc.. What exactly has farming or rural communities gained from that?? Even the biggest most intensive farmers with zero habitat/wildlife on their farms are struggling with low farm gate prices,high input costs etc. with no sign of this getting better anytime soon. The main issue here is the failure of the Dept and the government to spend EU monies(as has been discussed on here many times) that were set-aside to protect natural farming habitats and support rural communities. You might have no appreciation of our natural heritage but the issues around this a lot more complex than that and impacts on many industries including tourism, marketing of Irish food to foreign consumers etc.

ganmo

paddysdream wrote: »

Is climate change not just another version/sect of the same religion.As far as I can see(and many would say not very far) climate change is just another way of raising taxes through fuel/coal/increased electricity bills.

Would not nuclear be a whole lot cheaper if we were actually worried about global warming (is the use of climate change instead of global warming just a way of covering all bases in the event of interested parties being able to change the basis of any debate?) instead of heavily subsidised green energy ?I know nuclear would need state support but at least it can run 24/7/365 like coal or gas.

My problem with nuclear is that we'd still have to mine the raw material for it

barnaman

Nuclear a non starter in Ireland. Spoke to an ESB guy who was very senior in it and was on nuclear power comittee, Apparently population/elec usage too small for nuclear just on practical level leaving aside all other points.

Stewardship in this country can be terrible and worst are the council!

Capercaillie

barnaman wrote: »

Nuclear a non starter in Ireland. Spoke to an ESB guy who was very senior in it and was on nuclear power comittee, Apparently population/elec usage too small for nuclear just on practical level leaving aside all other points.

Stewardship in this country can be terrible and worst are the council!

Interconnector with UK solves that problem.

Capercaillie

Grecco wrote: »

Well the farmer can`t be blamed for the corncrake decline, I`d be more inclined to blame the fookers with there big boats on lough Derg. Sure it was them who wanted the levels of the lake kept high all the time so that they can go over and back on the boats. The higher lake levels flooded and destroyed the corncrakes marsh habitats.
Oh those same high lake levels are also the cause of the flooding in Co Clare and upstream of lough Derg this year by keeping the lake artificially high during the summer there was no buffer left for the heavy rain this winter.

Intensive farming is the main cause of decline of corncrake. Callows corncrake were caught in a narrow strip between intensive farming and summer flooding. Corncrake could have saved if intensive farmed agriculture was opened up for conservation. Corncrake preferred habitat is dry hay meadows.

Grecco

Oh so it had nothing to do with Lough derg been kept artificially high during the summer to appease the big nobs in there boats and cruisers
Yeah right

ganmo

Capercaillie wrote: »

Intensive farming is the main cause of decline of corncrake. Callows corncrake were caught in a narrow strip between intensive farming and summer flooding. Corncrake could have saved if intensive farmed agriculture was opened up for conservation. Corncrake preferred habitat is dry hay meadows.

The day of hay meadows is dying, modern agriculture has moved past hay.

the famous extinction story of the Dodo, actually is the story of 2 extinctions. There was a plant on the island where it had evolved germinate after passing through the dodo's tough GI tract.
so when the dodo disappeared so did this plant's chance of survival. moral of the story, always be able to change.

Yes we are changing the world fast but I don't see the agriculture changing back any-time soon

Capercaillie

ganmo wrote: »

The day of hay meadows is dying, modern agriculture has moved past hay.

the famous extinction story of the Dodo, actually is the story of 2 extinctions. There was a plant on the island where it had evolved germinate after passing through the dodo's tough GI tract.
so when the dodo disappeared so did this plant's chance of survival. moral of the story, always be able to change.

Yes we are changing the world fast but I don't see the agriculture changing back any-time soon

Never knew the story of the plant, a sad story. Hay meadows not gone completely, my farm are meadows that are cut in mid September.

Capercaillie

Grecco wrote: »

Oh so it had nothing to do with Lough derg been kept artificially high during the summer to appease the big nobs in there boats and cruisers
Yeah right

Excessive flooding tipped crexs over edge but intensive farming had them in the vulnerable position.

Username John

Capercaillie wrote: »

Excessive flooding tipped crexs over edge but intensive farming had them in the vulnerable position.

What would you have expected farmers do at the time though?
With falling profits for a long while, intensification was the only way people saw forward...

Even now, if you're not in a 'bird' zone to claim payments, and if you have a poor SFP, and you think you can make a bit more money from reclaiming, then you can't blame lads for doing that...

I'm trying to do that myself to be honest... Cleaning a few bits here and there, trying to grow as much grass as I can. I'm not against diversity, but I want to maximise what I can do with the farm too...

Capercaillie

Username John wrote: »

What would you have expected farmers do at the time though?
With falling profits for a long while, intensification was the only way people saw forward...

Even now, if you're not in a 'bird' zone to claim payments, and if you have a poor SFP, and you think you can make a bit more money from reclaiming, then you can't blame lads for doing that...

I'm trying to do that myself to be honest... Cleaning a few bits here and there, trying to grow as much grass as I can. I'm not against diversity, but I want to maximise what I can do with the farm too...

DAFM/IFA have ****ed natural 2000 farmers and the money was there to help small farmers farm to help species like corncrake. Money diverted elsewhere

ganmo

Capercaillie wrote: »

DAFM/IFA have ****ed natural 2000 farmers and the money was there to help small farmers farm to help species like corncrake. Money diverted elsewhere

and worse! handed back!

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

I wonder was the caveman too bothered about conserving dinosaurs?
l

I doubt they knew that much about them. They never co-existed. There was millions of years separating our cave dwelling brothers and dinosaurs.

Muckit

Funny l was only thinking this was the case and I writing it!!

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

Funny l was only thinking this was the case and I writing it!!

I knew well if you thought about it you'd be on the money. Hollywood has us convinced we were chasing dinosaurs for our next meal. :-)

ganmo

To get back to the start of this thread. I just checked the ts & cs and cleaning out the bird boxes is only a recommendation

Muckit

Apologies OP. It appears (according to IFJ) that inspections have started! 1,350 scheduled.

l can't fathom it though. Only received the specifications book in the post yesterday and we have until 31March to have things in place.

Oh and it appears there will be a compulsory course day before the end of year 2.

Genghis Cant

When I was a young lad there used to be a joke if someone asked you what you worked at, you'd say 'shovelling sh1t from a Cuckoo clock'

It seems a lot of lads are goin to be gainfully employed shovelling sh1t from bird boxes!

Qprmeath

Anyone recommend a place to buy bird/bat boxes?