Replace washing machine?

Lux23

I live in a house split into six flats, there's a share washing machine between the 7 people living here. The washing machine was replaced this week and the landlord is looking for €100 from each of us. Are we obligated to pay the money? He said its wrecked from people overloading, I doubt he's lying about this so fair enough but if that's the case he will expect us to fork out again because I've seen how people use the machine. He also has a coin machine so we pay two euro every time it's used. Should we pay the €100?

Gatling

I wouldn't a washing machine certainly didn't cost him €700

Lux23

I know that plus I reckon others won't pay it.

Gatling

Lux23 wrote: »

I know that plus I reckon others won't pay it.

Either way he's responsible for maintaince of the property ,

newacc2015

If someone did damage it from overloading, then I would think you are responsible for it. This purchase wasnt maintenance. It was beyond general wear and tear. But if the machine was a cheap British one, that was 10 years old. It was beyond its responsible life

I wouldnt pay him for the simple reason it is coin operated. The money is making from the washing machine should cover the cost of it.

April 73

The landlord is responsible for providing a washing machine. He is also charging for the use of it separate to the rent. No way would I give him €100 towards the cost of replacement. He can also write the cost off against his tax bill. He's a chancer.

stoplooklisten

A coin machine you pay per use, I reckon the landlord is responsible.

It sounds like an unusual set up

Lux23

He says it is but it's registered as a 6 bedroom house, not a 6 flats. He freely admitted that we legally don't have to pay it. My partner wants to but it's pissing me off.

RentDayBlues

Lux23 wrote: »

He says it is but it's registered as a 6 bedroom house, not a 6 flats. He freely admitted that we legally don't have to pay it. My partner wants to but it's pissing me off.

Under no circumstances should you pay, this guy is a chancer

Atlantic Dawn

With the coins to use if it's just used once a day for a year he will get back nearly €1500 and will also have the €700 from you lot, very profitable for him.

Is he registed with the PRTB?

Lux23

Our tenancy isn't registered. We never got a letter anyway.

Lux23

I suppose I can't report without him knowing it was me? Well for definite anyway.

garhjw

kceire wrote: »

It cannot be registered in a house that's legally split into 6 flats.

Why can't it be registered?

garhjw

April 73 wrote: »

The landlord is responsible for providing a washing machine. He is also charging for the use of it separate to the rent. No way would I give him €100 towards the cost of replacement. He can also write the cost off against his tax bill. He's a chancer.

If the machine was broken due to mis use, the landlord can charge for replacing it or refuse to replace it if he can prove that mis use was the cause of damage. However, for €600 or €700 I would be expecting an indiutrial grade machine!

Lux23

That is one side of it, I do think it was misused but the machine he got is not a particular good and I reckon its second hand. Like I don't necessarily mind paying the €100 but he was so aggressive and rude about it. Plus there's so many things about the place that is below standard, we don't have anywhere to store rubbish. There's mice and probably rats too. We have no heating in the bedroom and the wiring is pretty dodgy.

It's just depressing because we can't really afford anything better even though we both have full time jobs as we are trying to get our mortgage deposit together.

Boater123

If its supposed to be divided in to six separate flats, and not a house share, he is supposed to supply you with your own separate washing machine.

Not only that, but if he hasn't supplied a place to dry clothes specific to your flat, he is supposed to supply you with your own tumble dryer.

With no controllable (by the tenant) heating device for the bedroom and no bin supplied, your flat does not meet the minimum requirements for a rental accommodation under the law.

Punkyblip

Lux23 wrote: »

That is one side of it, I do think it was misused but the machine he got is not a particular good and I reckon its second hand. Like I don't necessarily mind paying the €100 but he was so aggressive and rude about it. Plus there's so many things about the place that is below standard, we don't have anywhere to store rubbish. There's mice and probably rats too. We have no heating in the bedroom and the wiring is pretty dodgy.

It's just depressing because we can't really afford anything better even though we both have full time jobs as we are trying to get our mortgage deposit together.

I wouldn't pay as it doesn't comply with regulations and you probably aren't registered with PRTB. Landord pulling a fast one.

And I agree with everything Boater said in previous post.

Plus if you don't mind me asking, if the place is as bad as you described, how much rent you paying?

Barely Hedged

Boater123 wrote: »

If its supposed to be divided in to six separate flats, and not a house share, he is supposed to supply you with your own separate washing machine.

Not only that, but if he hasn't supplied a place to dry clothes specific to your flat, he is supposed to supply you with your own tumble dryer

That's wrong. He/she only needs to provide you with access to them. A communal washing machine is perfectly acceptable and satisfies the current regulations. The same applies to a tumble dryer, if it does exist and there's no access to outside space

April 73

garhjw wrote: »

If the machine was broken due to mis use, the landlord can charge for replacing it or refuse to replace it if he can prove that mis use was the cause of damage. However, for €600 or €700 I would be expecting an indiutrial grade machine!

There are six separate people using it - so very difficult to prove misuse. It's part of the cost of being a landlord.

I wonder what brand & model it was? I suspect it's not a top of the range industrial one.

OP if I were you I would just refuse to contribute.

Lux23

Punkyblip wrote: »

I wouldn't pay as it doesn't comply with regulations and you probably aren't registered with PRTB. Landord pulling a fast one.

And I agree with everything Boater said in previous post.

Plus if you don't mind me asking, if the place is as bad as you described, how much rent you paying?

Its 180 a week. Anyway I said to my partner that we will put in writing what we want brought up to standard and give the landlord two weeks to sort it out. If he doesn't do it, Il open a dispute with the PRTB. He lets himself into our flat whenever it suits him and our rent is paid in cash so I'm just sick of it at this stage.

Delphinium

I bet fire safety is another problem. This landlord gives the rest a bad name. He should be reported to PRTB and revenue. The washing machine is his problem. It should be an industrial machine for so many users.

Boater123

Barely Hedged wrote: »

That's wrong. He/she only needs to provide you with access to them. A communal washing machine is perfectly acceptable and satisfies the current regulations. The same applies to a tumble dryer, if it does exist and there's no access to outside space

You would be correct if it was a shared house. This is supposed to be 6 separate flats, so 6 separate tenancies.

Emme

Unfortunately there are many landlords like him operating in the grey/black market renting out substandard and dangerous properties because they can get away with it in the current climate. I know of a few and I won't report them because if I did people would end up homeless.

On no account pay the €100.

People will always overload coin operated machines, what does he expect when he's charging a small fortune to use it?

Barely Hedged

Boater123 wrote: »

You would be correct if it was a shared house. This is supposed to be 6 separate flats, so 6 separate tenancies.

No I'm not. Show me the legislation that states this is illegal

Michael D Not Higgins

Barely Hedged wrote: »

No I'm not. Show me the legislation that states this is illegal

Exactly

"Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building,"

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19142,en.pdf

Arbiter of Good Taste

Lux23 wrote: »

Its 180 a week. Anyway I said to my partner that we will put in writing what we want brought up to standard and give the landlord two weeks to sort it out. If he doesn't do it, Il open a dispute with the PRTB. He lets himself into our flat whenever it suits him and our rent is paid in cash so I'm just sick of it at this stage.

So, you are paying, what, less than €750 a month for a flat in Dublin? What were you expecting? What do you expect will happen when you open a dispute with PRTB? Do you think the LL will magically conform to standards whilst you still have a roof over your head, and continue to charge you rock bottom rent?

I'm not siding with the LL, who sounds like a slumlord. I'm just saying to think carefully about the consequences of lodging a complaint over a washing machine. If you are happy to move out - which you might be forced to do if all the flats are found not to confirm with regulations - then why aren't you just looking to move now?

It's easy for anonymous people on a forum to tell you what to do.

jennyhayes123

No way would I pay it and shame on the person above saying what do you expect for that kind of money. That is why the rent market is how it is and why people get away with sub standard letting.
Your landlord sounds like a bully. Fair enough not good If someone broke it but if he is clearing that kind of money off the 6 sublets he can well afford a new machine, especially given he is charging by the load too. Greedy f*****r

Boater123

Barely Hedged wrote: »

No I'm not. Show me the legislation that states this is illegal

S.I. No. 534 of 2008

These Regulations require landlords of rented houses (including flats and
maisonettes)

(2) Subject to sub-article (1), there shall be provided, within the habitable
area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive
use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).


"access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, " pertains to a house share.

El_Dangeroso

Boater123 wrote: »

S.I. No. 534 of 2008

These Regulations require landlords of rented houses (including flats and
maisonettes)

(2) Subject to sub-article (1), there shall be provided, within the habitable
area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive
use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).


"access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, " pertains to a house share.

Sorry, but no, there are many apartment complexes with shared laundry facilities and they are not illegal.

Michael D Not Higgins

Boater123 wrote: »

S.I. No. 534 of 2008

These Regulations require landlords of rented houses (including flats and
maisonettes)

(2) Subject to sub-article (1), there shall be provided, within the habitable
area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive
use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).


"access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, " pertains to a house share.

You're reading that completely incorrectly

garhjw

Boater123 wrote: »

S.I. No. 534 of 2008

These Regulations require landlords of rented houses (including flats and
maisonettes)

(2) Subject to sub-article (1), there shall be provided, within the habitable
area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive
use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).


"access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, " pertains to a house share.

You just proved yourself incorrect.

athtrasna

Mod note

Please take it to PM if you wish to continue this argument

Lux23

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

So, you are paying, what, less than €750 a month for a flat in Dublin? What were you expecting? What do you expect will happen when you open a dispute with PRTB? Do you think the LL will magically conform to standards whilst you still have a roof over your head, and continue to charge you rock bottom rent?

I'm not siding with the LL, who sounds like a slumlord. I'm just saying to think carefully about the consequences of lodging a complaint over a washing machine. If you are happy to move out - which you might be forced to do if all the flats are found not to confirm with regulations - then why aren't you just looking to move now?

It's easy for anonymous people on a forum to tell you what to do.

It's essentially a bedsit so we could probably get something similar for less money. But you kinda see the bind I'm in, we are saving for a mortgage deposit so the low rent is why we are here. We could get a bigger and better place but that might add another year to our wait to buy. You're quite right though, we could end up having to leave!

April 73

Don't be a walk-over but don't burn your bridges with the LL either. Even with the faults you have a reason to stay there as it's helping your long-term plans to save. I lived in plenty of dives before I managed to buy my own place.
Try & have a conversation about the essentials that need to be done & tell him why you are not willing to contribute to the washing machine. I wouldn't burn bridges just yet by threatening the PRTB.

In an ideal world nobody would need to threaten the PRTB for anything but it's not an ideal world out there. You have to be pragmatic.

MadDog76

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

So, you are paying, what, less than €750 a month for a flat in Dublin? What were you expecting? What do you expect will happen when you open a dispute with PRTB? Do you think the LL will magically conform to standards whilst you still have a roof over your head, and continue to charge you rock bottom rent?

€180 x 4 x 6 = €4,320 rent per month for one house ......... you're right, the LL is practically running a charity!!! :rolleyes:

loyatemu

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With the coins to use if it's just used once a day for a year he will get back nearly €1500 and will also have the €700 from you lot, very profitable for him.

€2 per wash - your calculator needs a new battery

Arbiter of Good Taste

MadDog76 wrote: »

€180 x 4 x 6 = €4,320 rent per month for one house ......... you're right, the LL is practically running a charity!!! :rolleyes:

There's no need for the rollie eyes.

Why is it hard to accept that the OP could be hard pressed getting rent at that rate anywhere else in Dublin. I'm not taking the landlords side. I'm just saying that the OP should be careful about going into something with all guns blazing when they might find themselves looking for somewhere new to live, at double the rent. I'm sure they'll appreciate your rollie eyes then.

athtrasna

Leave the modding to the mods please

Lux23

He's certainly raking it in alright, he's always off on holidays!! We are going to pay the €100 because my boyfriend thinks he definitely overloaded the machine (he does the washing for the most part). I talked to one of the other guys who rents downstairs and he told him to f**k off. He's here years though so he's probably not likely to get him to move out.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Lux23 wrote: »

He's certainly raking it in alright, he's always off on holidays!! We are going to pay the €100 because my boyfriend thinks he definitely overloaded the machine (he does the washing for the most part). I talked to one of the other guys who rents downstairs and he told him to f**k off. He's here years though so he's probably not likely to get him to move out.

I wouldn't be so quick to pay. If he is looking for €100 from each flat, is he forking out €700 for a super duper, top of the range washing machine, in which case it might be worth it just to bite the bullet and pay. Or is he going to get the cheapest thing he can pick up in Power City and pocket the difference?

April 73

Lux23 wrote: »

He's certainly raking it in alright, he's always off on holidays!! We are going to pay the €100 because my boyfriend thinks he definitely overloaded the machine (he does the washing for the most part). I talked to one of the other guys who rents downstairs and he told him to f**k off. He's here years though so he's probably not likely to get him to move out.

In your first post Lux23 you said the machine had been replaced. What make & model has the LL put in?

I think your boyfriend is remarkably generous. Overloading tends to result in the bearings going or the drum detaching. Is this what happened?

If the LL expects tenants to replace his white goods when they break down then I don't see why you also need to pay per use.

He can't get you to move out because you refuse to pay this money. I really think he is taking advantage.

stoplooklisten

April 73 wrote: »

..

If the LL expects tenants to replace his white goods when they break down then I don't see why you also need to pay per use.

He can't get you to move out because you refuse to pay this money. I really think he is taking advantage.

Exactly, what's the per use charge going towards if not for maintenance and upkeep of machine..then the landlord asks for more money


He's taking the p£$$ OP and you'd be a fool to pay the landlord himself told you you don't have to

Lux23 wrote: »

He says it is but it's registered as a 6 bedroom house, not a 6 flats. He freely admitted that we legally don't have to pay it. My partner wants to but it's pissing me off.

You boyfriend seems determined to be ripped off

I have absolutely no idea why ye have even given it any thought, there is no way on earth id hand over a cent to the LL.

Arbiter of Good Taste

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Exactly, what's the per use charge going towards if not for maintenance and upkeep of machine..then the landlord asks for more money

I presume it's also covering the cost of electricity to run the machine. The users should be paying that.

Dtp1979

Ok so why are you paying the landlord?
He's supposed to supply a machine. If he's scamming like he is then he should've supplied an industrial machine.
Did he show you a written engineers report stating that the machine was broken due to misuse or overloading?
Is it not illegal to charge you for using a machine that he's supposed to already supply, when you're already paying the electricity bill??
A some poster rightly said, your boyfriend seems like he's determined to get ripped off

Mrs OBumble

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Is it not illegal to charge you for using a machine that he's supposed to already supply, when you're already paying the electricity bill??
A some poster rightly said, your boyfriend seems like he's determined to get ripped off

No, it is not illegal.

The LL has to supply access to a machine. In some cases, the cost of this is charged per use, rather than included in the rent.


I think the boyfriend simply has a realistic approach to the situation and the alternatives that the OP has.

stoplooklisten

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, it is not illegal.

The LL has to supply access to a machine. In some cases, the cost of this is charged per use, rather than included in the rent.


I think the boyfriend simply has a realistic approach to the situation and the alternatives that the OP has.

What alternatives has the landlord have? He has to provide a machine.

and OP next time he lets himself in to your flat without notice, call the gardas and report him for breaking and entering.

this landlord is a joke

Edit: OP if you could clarify if this pay per use charge is in lieu of an electricity bill

Dtp1979

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, it is not illegal.

The LL has to supply access to a machine. In some cases, the cost of this is charged per use, rather than included in the rent.

.

That's crazy. So he is allowed to charge them for using the Machine, let the pay for the electricity for using the machine and then expect them to pay for the maintenance or a new machine?

stoplooklisten

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That's crazy. So he is allowed to charge them for using the Machine, let the pay for the electricity for using the machine and then expect them to pay for the maintenance or a new machine?

Nah, even the landlord said they didn't legally have to pay for maintenance/replacement/100euroscamcharge

Dtp1979

@ OP, what new make/model did the landlord supply ?

Dtp1979

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That's crazy. So he is allowed to charge them for using the Machine, let the pay for the electricity for using the machine and then expect them to pay for the maintenance or a new machine?

Well in fairness if the washing machine is in a communal area then it's most likely not being supplied by the electricity of the op as why would the op's bill be covering the cost of the machine and not the other tenants bills.

It's most likely that the bill for the machine is covered by the LL and while the LL is chancing his arm asking for money towards the machine it's fair enough that it's pay per use to cover the esb.

On the point of him letting himself in, maybe the op can clarify if they mean into their actual apartment or into the communal areas of the building as I don't see much problem with him entering communal areas, in fact he should be expected to enter them to check on various things.