Unable to leave my job for a new role

Struggling

I'm in my job since mid September. My probation was to be 6 months. Two weeks ago they told me I was off probation. Meaning my notice period has gone up to two months. I today was offered a new job. The new job has told me they cannot wait two months. I am in no way an important employee. I came in on what can only be called a graduate role. I want to move to the other role but I'm afraid I will not be let leave my current job. Any advise?

Stheno

Hand in your notice and see what they say if it's less than two months?

BreadnBuddha

If your contract states 6 months, not *up to* 6 months, hand in your notice and go.

Their decision to end the probation period early, if that's what they have done, does not bind you to them in any way.

Don't wait around. Your future is in your hands, not in unenforceable employment contract terms.

Stealthfins

You're not legally bound to give so many months notice when leaving your job.

You could walk out tomorrow if you like.

Usually a week or two notice is the norm,two months is very unrealistic.

bonyn

2 months notice is silly, and i know from experience you're limiting your opportunities by honouring it.

Ignore the 2 months, hand in your notice and say you're willing to negotiate a notice period. Them ending your probation period early is no reason to work a longer notice period - well, unless the conditions in terms of pay or benefits also changed.

Mrs OBumble

Stealthfins wrote: »

Usually a week or two notice is the norm,two months is very unrealistic.

A month is normal in my world. Two is unusual, not unrealistic though.

Just negotiate.

uck51js9zml2yt

A month is the norm or a week if paid weekly.
Most companies will wait a month.

dev100

It only ever takes 5 minutes for an employer to lay you off no matter how long you've been with them . If they be treated you well and you don't want to burn bridges you should give between 2 weeks and a month and no more and if they insist on more time just tell them it's for financial reasons and that you have to go .

Struggling

dev100 wrote: »

It only ever takes 5 minutes for an employer to lay you off no matter how long you've been with them . If they be treated you well and you don't want to burn bridges you should give between 2 weeks and a month and no more and if they insist on more time just tell them it's for financial reasons and that you have to go .

Totally don't wanna burn bridges. I've made friends there. I'm just not high up enough that anywhere would wait two months for me. Willing to give a month from Monday morning just afraid they will say well you have to give two months and then I'm trapped

_Brian

I've seen this more and more with companies putting regular employees on contracts with mad notice periods hoping it will deter them from looking elsewhere for work..
I wouldn't pass any notice of it...

If you've been offered a genuinely better position that you feel is good for you then give two weeks notice and let that be the end of it..

In theory they could make a big fuss and take a case against you. But in reality it wouldn't work. Long notice periods are only upheld in cases where the employee is core and central to the functioning of the business and their leaving at short notice would damage the business severely. Senior executives and the like.

A reference might be the only sticking point. I wouldn't expect a glowing reference, and even unsaid undertones can make a reference seem bad and may scare off a potential new employer.

I saw an instance where a manager was rang for a reference for a good employee with a clean file, he was asked directly "had the employee any disciplinary issues" his response was " I don't think it would be fair to talk about that at this stage", turns out the job offer was withdrawn as they were unhappy with the candidates references. He just wanted to hold onto a good employee. He hadn't said the employee had or had not been disciplined but inferred there may have been something.

punisher5112

A lot of places will kindly ask you to leave sooner as they don't want someone there with potential to damage company reputation.

Good luck with new job op.

ibarelycare

They can't force you to take two months. They could in theory attempt to sue you for breach of contract but it's very highly unlikely as it would cost them a lot more than it's worth. Is your new job dependent on a reference from your current job?

Lux23

I would hand in your notice saying what date you will be finishing up on, seeing as the six month isn't officially up I don't think they will even try to hold you to the two months notice.

StupidLikeAFox

Struggling wrote: »

Totally don't wanna burn bridges. I've made friends there. I'm just not high up enough that anywhere would wait two months for me. Willing to give a month from Monday morning just afraid they will say well you have to give two months and then I'm trapped

You ain't trapped. Give them two weeks, there is nothing they can really do about it. If you are as junior as you say it will be a mild inconvenience but they will get over it. And best of luck in the new job!

smurfjed

Our contract stipulates 4 months notice to leave or for termination, certainly does make job hunting that much harder.

dev100

smurfjed wrote:

Our contract stipulates 4 months notice to leave or for termination, certainly does make job hunting that much harder.

4 months ? Must be a great pay packet at end of every month

smurfjed

Yep :) Plus I love my job.

sin_26

Look at your contract. If the notice time is in favour of your employer give them the same amount. There is no law which enforce better cobtract terms for employer than for employee especially with notice period. Ive did that and said to my boss that its fair in my opinion. Tgere is no way that my boss can expect 2 months from me when in the same time i can get only 2 weeks.

Brian?

smurfjed wrote: »

Our contract stipulates 4 months notice to leave or for termination, certainly does make job hunting that much harder.

I'm pretty sure you can ignore that completely. The idea of notice is to protect employees not to trap them.

If you're offered another job, give as much notice as the new employer will allow and walk away.

If one of my employees asked me what notice he needed to give the answer would be/ as much or as little as you want. If you don't want to be here go now with my blessing!

smurfjed

I'm pretty sure you can ignore that completely

It would be extremely expensive to do so.

ibarelycare

smurfjed wrote: »

It would be extremely expensive to do so.

Most employers wouldn't pursue an employee for breach of contract in relation to their notice period, as it wouldn't make financial sense.

4 months is ridiculous. It's practically preventing you from ever moving on, as how many employers are going to wait 4 months while a new hire works out their notice period?

wardides

So what grounds do employers have in terms of notice period? I'm in a similar position myself and on the hunt elsewhere. If my notice is 2 months and I leave after 4 weeks how does that work? Could they not just deduct your pay for the month work you're refusing to do. I don't see how, in a contract which for example states the following ;

"Except in circumstances justifying immediate termination of your contract the company shall give you 2 month's notice (or payment in Lieu).

When terminating your own contract you are required to give 2 months notice in writing".

If that's a signed document, how can employees just "disregard" it as some are saying?

ibarelycare

wardides wrote: »

So what grounds do employers have in terms of notice period? I'm in a similar position myself and on the hunt elsewhere. If my notice is 2 months and I leave after 4 weeks how does that work? Could they not just deduct your pay for the month work you're refusing to do. I don't see how, in a contract which for example states the following ;

"Except in circumstances justifying immediate termination of your contract the company shall give you 2 month's notice (or payment in Lieu).

When terminating your own contract you are required to give 2 months notice in writing".

If that's a signed document, how can employees just "disregard" it as some are saying?

You'd be in breach of contract, but it's unlikely that they'd pursue you for it as the legal costs would be more than the loss.

wardides

ibarelycare wrote: »

You'd be in breach of contract, but it's unlikely that they'd pursue you for it as the legal costs would be more than the loss.

I'm with you. So there would be no grounds for an employee to deduct a months wages. For example if I hand in 2 months notice now. Work for march, but refuse to work April. They don't have any rights to deduct my wages for April as I refused to work it?

ibarelycare

wardides wrote: »

I'm with you. So there would be no grounds for an employee to deduct a months wages. For example if I hand in 2 months notice now. Work for march, but refuse to work April. They don't have any rights to deduct my wages for April as I refused to work it?

No, they can't deduct you wages that they haven't paid you, and they'll have to pay you for the time you have worked.

cowboyBuilder

_Brian wrote: »

I saw an instance where a manager was rang for a reference for a good employee with a clean file, he was asked directly "had the employee any disciplinary issues" his response was " I don't think it would be fair to talk about that at this stage", turns out the job offer was withdrawn as they were unhappy with the candidates references. He just wanted to hold onto a good employee. He hadn't said the employee had or had not been disciplined but inferred there may have been something.

That's just lousy ..

Stheno

wardides wrote: »

I'm with you. So there would be no grounds for an employee to deduct a months wages. For example if I hand in 2 months notice now. Work for march, but refuse to work April. They don't have any rights to deduct my wages for April as I refused to work it?

You won't get paid for April as you didn't work it

stefan.kuntz

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

If your contract states 6 months, not *up to* 6 months, hand in your notice and go.

Their decision to end the probation period early, if that's what they have done, does not bind you to them in any way.

Don't wait around. Your future is in your hands, not in unenforceable employment contract terms.

All posts after this are superfluous, OP.

Jim2007

Stealthfins wrote: »

You're not legally bound to give so many months notice when leaving your job.

I would love to hear the legal basis for that statement, last it is my understanding that the "Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Acts 1973–2005" provides or the minimum period not the maximum and since the OP's contract meets those requirements they are in deed subject to the notice period stated in their contract. Whether or not the employer would seek to enforce them is another issue.

Struggling

My current pay is a pittance. This new job is significantly higher. With regards references I have other references that are more than glowing so that's not really a worry. Handing it in on Monday... Have email from HR that I'm on probation until March 14th, I'm so nervous. Don't wanna leave on bad terms but this is a massive move upwards for me and also a parking space.... Bye bye luas!!!!!

Jim2007

Struggling wrote: »

Totally don't wanna burn bridges. I've made friends there. I'm just not high up enough that anywhere would wait two months for me. Willing to give a month from Monday morning just afraid they will say well you have to give two months and then I'm trapped

If as you say, you are not very important to the organisation, then it is very unlikely that they will require you to work the full notice period.

But think about this, they did think enough of you to want you to stay around and dropped the probation period once they saw what you were capable of. Your potential new employer is unwilling to respect your notice period and is more interested in getting a body on board rather than getting you on board. That being the case I would not be surprised if he was not to concerned about you further down the road, so be sure that it really is what you want before you make the move.

markfinn

Struggling wrote: »

Two weeks ago they told me I was off probation.

Probation works both ways. Despite corporate types trying to hide it, it's there so you can tell them to take their job and shove it on minimal notice just as much as being for them to drop you on a whim.

Did you ever tell them (in writing) they were out of probation? If not, the relationship between you and them is still probationary.

Struggling

Jim2007 wrote: »

If as you say, you are not very important to the organisation, then it is very unlikely that they will require you to work the full notice period.

But think about this, they did think enough of you to want you to stay around and dropped the probation period once they saw what you were capable of. Your potential new employer is unwilling to respect your notice period and is more interested in getting a body on board rather than getting you on board. That being the case I would not be surprised if he was not to concerned about you further down the road, so be sure that it really is what you want before you make the move.

When I applied for the role I told them 1 month as I was not sure what my situation was. My current role isn't related to my qualifications and I can barely make rent. I don't owe them anything, if they take me off probation early it's down to the massive turnaround in the company I'm currently with.

ibarelycare

How were you "told" that you were off probation? Was it in writing?

Struggling

ibarelycare wrote: »

How were you "told" that you were off probation? Was it in writing?

They bought me in for a monthly review and said I was off it. According to HR records I'm still on it

markfinn

Struggling wrote: »

They bought me in for a monthly review and said I was off it. According to HR records I'm still on it

Then what exactly is the problem? You're on probation, they're on probation, and you've decided the job is not the best option for you right now. This is the entire reason for the existence of probationary periods.

Struggling

markfinn wrote: »

Then what exactly is the problem? You're on probation, they're on probation, and you've decided the job is not the best option for you right now. This is the entire reason for the existence of probationary periods.

Because they told me I was off probation as I said in the earlier post so I want to know where I stand regards probation periods

BreadnBuddha

Struggling wrote: »

Because they told me I was off probation as I said in the earlier post so I want to know where I stand regards probation periods

I asked the relevant question earlier. Does it say 'up to 6 months' or '6 months' in the contract you have signed?

It's a simple question.

Struggling

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I asked the relevant question earlier. Does it say 'up to 6 months' or '6 months' in the contract you have signed?

It's a simple question.

It says 6 months

BreadnBuddha

Well then, that's the only thing that matters.

The contract, the legal basis of your commitment to that employer, states 6 months. It is explicit in that term.

You can walk in there on Monday morning and hand in your notice.

Do so, without any hesitation.

elfy4eva

Contractually, you're still on probation you have evidence of this and that's the only binding thing.

Enjoy your new Job!

Jim2007

Struggling wrote: »

When I applied for the role I told them 1 month as I was not sure what my situation was. My current role isn't related to my qualifications and I can barely make rent. I don't owe them anything, if they take me off probation early it's down to the massive turnaround in the company I'm currently with.

I'm not saying you do owe them anything, it is just that in my experience employers who are unwilling to respect notice periods etc... often turn out not to be such a great place to work in the end.

wardides

Apologies for hijacking this thread. I think the OP has got sorted, so no need for me to start a new one as it's the exact same situation.

Started a job in August 2015. Got offered a chance to move elsewhere today (fantastic career step, significant pay increase). I have asked the question before but I just wanted to get a clearer picture on it. In my contract it has the following element

"my employment will be subject to the first six months of employment being a probationary period. At the end of the 6 months, your appointment may be confirmed provided your work and conduct is satisfactory. The company & management will monitor your progress closely during this period. The probationary period may be extended at the company's discretion, but will not exceed 12 months."

Nothing in regards to being able to leave (and also be dismissed) without any notice during this period, but is that just assumed? Later on in the contract, under a heading Termination of Agreement, the following is stated.

"Except in circumstances justifying immediate termination of your contract the company shall give you 2 months notice (or payment in Lieu). When terminating your own contract you are required to give 2 months notice, in writing".


I'm planning on giving 4 weeks notice, but by my understanding they can't hold me to doing 2 months (well legally they can, but doesn't make financial sense). I also have not received any confirmation (written or verbal) that my probationary period has finished.

Small caveat is that I'm moving to a rival (somewhat) company.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

BreadnBuddha

wardides wrote: »

Apologies for hijacking this thread. I think the OP has got sorted, so no need for me to start a new one as it's the exact same situation.

Started a job in August 2015. Got offered a chance to move elsewhere today (fantastic career step, significant pay increase). I have asked the question before but I just wanted to get a clearer picture on it. In my contract it has the following element

"my employment will be subject to the first six months of employment being a probationary period. At the end of the 6 months, your appointment may be confirmed provided your work and conduct is satisfactory. The company & management will monitor your progress closely during this period. The probationary period may be extended at the company's discretion, but will not exceed 12 months."

Nothing in regards to being able to leave (and also be dismissed) without any notice during this period, but is that just assumed? Later on in the contract, under a heading Termination of Agreement, the following is stated.

"Except in circumstances justifying immediate termination of your contract the company shall give you 2 months notice (or payment in Lieu). When terminating your own contract you are required to give 2 months notice, in writing".


I'm planning on giving 4 weeks notice, but by my understanding they can't hold me to doing 2 months (well legally they can, but doesn't make financial sense). I also have not received any confirmation (written or verbal) that my probationary period has finished.

Small caveat is that I'm moving to a rival (somewhat) company.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

If your probationary period has not been extended, you're contractually obliged to give 2 months notice. That's the contract and it's perfectly legal and binding.

Just because you think they won't come after you, doesn't mean they won't.

wardides

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

If your probationary period has not been extended, you're contractually obliged to give 2 months notice. That's the contract and it's perfectly legal and binding.

Just because you think they won't come after you, doesn't mean they won't.

I havn't been told whether it has been extended or finished.

Mrs OBumble

being on probation or not is irrelevant in your case. The only bit that applies is

"Except in circumstances justifying immediate termination of your contract the company shall give you 2 months notice (or payment in Lieu). When terminating your own contract you are required to give 2 months notice, in writing".