Albert Quay Development - (O'Callaghan)

CHealy

New proposals coming out this morning for the failed event center build site. I have to say, it looks very well from the artists impressions.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/new-albert-quay-project-to-deliver-e90m-boost-for-cork-city/1888011/

blindsider

Looks very impressive. Article says its x4 times bigger than 1 Albert Quay!

As ever, we'll save the celebrations until they break ground, but it looks great!

cgcsb

3,000 staff, 300 parking spaces and 200 bike spaces.

That's just not right. The assumption being that 10% will drive, 7% will cycle their own bikes and 83% will be some mix of the Bus and Cork bikes.

There needs to be way more bike spaces for a start and enough car parking for 10% of the staff is way too high and will attract more cars into the City.

opus

Only realised how big that proposal is when I spotted the Idle Hour in the corner! Will be surprised if it get the go-ahead on that scale but great for the city centre though.

lisasimpson

Looks impressive.
With this development and all the others there a serious need for two other critical developments...accomodation for all the workers required and serious public transport investment..

Rhys Essien

Will he also start the development on Andersons Quay I wonder?.Article here last year said he wants to do Albert quay and Andersons quay.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

Plans here.
http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie/en-us/projects/commercial/andersonsquay.aspx

KCAccidental

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Will he also start the development on Andersons Quay I wonder?.Article here last year said he wants to do Albert quay and Andersons quay.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

Plans here.
http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie/en-us/projects/commercial/andersonsquay.aspx

I saw ads on daft for commercial space in the andersons quay building, so it certainly looks like it will start at some point.

Bacchus

lisasimpson wrote: »

Looks impressive.
With this development and all the others there a serious need for two other critical developments...accomodation for all the workers required and serious public transport investment..

I'd add to that two things...

1. Needs more car parking. Yes, I know this is bring more cars into the city but aside from an investment in public transport on a scale never before seen in the country you are not going to be able to cater for all those travelling from commuter areas. People will want to drive and park at work. If there's not enough spaces, they will spill over onto street parking which would be a disaster.

2. The road infrastructure around the city needs to be addressed (even before taking these 3,000 extra new jobs into account. It needs to be easier to get in/out of the city (particularly from the south ring road) and bottleneck areas need to be resolved.

Brussels Sprout

+1 to those talking about more bottle-necks. With all the narrow roads, one-way streets, bridges and the complete lack of a northern orbital dual carriageway the city is currently not well suited for rapid expansion. Some difficult choices will have to be made in the future or the city's going to grind to a stand-still.

ofcork

On the examiner the redevelopment of the old brooks haughton site on south terrace is going ahead too.

deecee1

I lived in the street behind the new proposed office blocks by O'Callaghan properties, while i welcome development in this side of the city, I really hope they think long and hard about parking and traffic. The parking was really bad on match days in Pairc O'Caoimh. People just dumping there cars any which way, which meant some of us could not get out or in off our little square. Far enough its public street parking but it's the illegally parking that would drive us nuts. God forbid there was an actual emergency at those times because there was no way an ambulance let alone a fire birgade was getting in. So when there's 3000 people working a stones throw away i'd hate to see what the situation would be like. On another note they'll have to sort out the junction between albert street and albert road. It takes forever because coming from albert road onto albert street especially if heading towards the northside. People are constantly blocking the yellow boxes etc.

CHealy

deecee1 wrote: »

I lived in the street behind the new proposed office blocks by O'Callaghan properties, while i welcome development in this side of the city, I really hope they think long and hard about parking and traffic. The parking was really bad on match days in Pairc O'Caoimh. People just dumping there cars any which way, which meant some of us could not get out or in off our little square. Far enough its public street parking but it's the illegally parking that would drive us nuts. God forbid there was an actual emergency at those times because there was no way an ambulance let alone a fire birgade was getting in. So when there's 3000 people working a stones throw away i'd hate to see what the situation would be like. On another note they'll have to sort out the junction between albert street and albert road. It takes forever because coming from albert road onto albert street especially if heading towards the northside. People are constantly blocking the yellow boxes etc.

There is a big difference between traffic control for a match and traffic control for an office block, I don't think you need to worry.

BUNK1982

It looks like a great development, much better use of the space rather than the events centre that had been tendered for at the location (but we won't go over that again ). It's a cool part of the city down around there.

There are definitely legitimate concerns about traffic and parking but all going well this will prove to be a catalyst for some serious investment in the transport infrastructure. Our public authorities are always reactionary so they won't deal with something unless there's a problem.

28srf0c

You can't fit 300 cars onto that street even without that development being there. Twil cause havoc.

ofcork

I see they are talking about partial demolition of navigation house is that not protected,although looking at the pic it looks like they are keeping the front.

opus

All systems go for the development according to the Echo. 3000 extra workers should make a big difference for the businesses in that area.

WORK ON LARGEST DEVELOPMENT IN CORK COULD BEGIN IN MONTHS

Will it be finished before the events centre

snotboogie

Bacchus wrote: »

lisasimpson wrote: »

Looks impressive.
With this development and all the others there a serious need for two other critical developments...accomodation for all the workers required and serious public transport investment..

I'd add to that two things...

1. Needs more car parking. Yes, I know this is bring more cars into the city but aside from an investment in public transport on a scale never before seen in the country you are not going to be able to cater for all those travelling from commuter areas. People will want to drive and park at work. If there's not enough spaces, they will spill over onto street parking which would be a disaster.

It's probably whats needed. I take it any suggestion of a Cork version of the LUAS would get laughed out of the dail?

farmerjj

Is it going on the block where the sextant bar/Carey,s tool hire are?

Milly33

I think from what i saw of the plans they will be left alone, not sure how long it will last.. Am i the only person who thinks tis going to be a nightmare... The way the road system is there they will have to adjust all that traffic going in there is going to be a nightmare. A tram system would be great but in fairness tis the Cork Council so they are bound to feck that up.. they are going to fill the places with most of the companies that are now based in Mahon Point so Mahon Point will suffer a downfall.. They are ruining the City in my eyes

run_Forrest_run

why would anyone consider a LUAS type system for Cork when the bus services are so underutilised? Make the bus service more attractive to users first.

Milly33

very true they just need them running to a tee.. Mind they arent bad around the city but on the outskirts they arent great

snotboogie

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

why would anyone consider a LUAS type system for Cork when the bus services are so underutilised? Make the bus service more attractive to users first.

Are you saying a Luas service in Cork wouldn't be used?

run_Forrest_run

snotboogie wrote: »

Are you saying a Luas service in Cork wouldn't be used?

I'm saying why spend a fortune on new infrastructure when we have buses etc that are under-used. Why not get more use of the existing assets instead of taking on huge debt for a new mode of transport?

Milly33

Are you suggestion that they should use what they have already and spend half the amount of money perhaps making it better! Oh dear sure that makes no sense... Joke of course it is a really shame

cgcsb

I don't get why better use isn't made out of the south link and Leitrim Street. Arterial roads that are plenty wide enough to support high quality bus lanes along their entire length with a high frequency service and park 'n' ride facilities. Make Patrick St bus only and you're on the way to a high quality bus based service. Then add in more quality bus lanes on other routes where possible, add traffic light priority and increase the service frequency. Before you know it modal shift occurs, then you start removing the god awful quayside parking and reclaim the waterfront for people. This is a tried and tested recipe the world over and the costs are comparatively tiny, but nobody seems to want to bloody do it.

snotboogie

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Are you saying a Luas service in Cork wouldn't be used?

I'm saying why spend a fortune on new infrastructure when we have buses etc that are under-used. Why not get more use of the existing assets instead of taking on huge debt for a new mode of transport?

People don't use our bus service because it is unreliable and doesn't circumvent traffic, both of these issues would be solved by a tram service. How would you make our bus service better?

Milly33

Not saying a tram would not work but still Cork is small it doesnt need a new tram service. Get the bus's running properly and it would be a winner, even have small shuttle bus's for shorter commutes

titan18

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

why would anyone consider a LUAS type system for Cork when the bus services are so underutilised? Make the bus service more attractive to users first.

The buses are sh1t and unreliable, and get stuck in traffic. Journey always takes longer, and a bigger danger of priority given to cars in future, by reducing bus lanes or eliminating them on streets. Sure,a good bus service would be great, but a Star Trek like teleportation device would also be great. I'm sure I'll see neither in my lifetime though.

cgcsb

snotboogie wrote: »

People don't use our bus service because it is unreliable and doesn't circumvent traffic, both of these issues would be solved by a tram service. How would you make our bus service better?

tram services are better because of segregation and higher capacity vehicles, if Cork is unable/unwilling to provide segregation for buses, how would you propose it provide segregation for trams?

cgcsb

Milly33 wrote: »

Not saying a tram would not work but still Cork is small it doesnt need a new tram service. Get the bus's running properly and it would be a winner, even have small shuttle bus's for shorter commutes

Cork is one of Europe's largest tramless cities.

Milly33

Thats because it is so small in fairness and why should it follow suit..

Diziet

cgcsb wrote: »

Cork is one of Europe's largest tramless cities.

Where on earth do you get that idea from? Cork is tiny as a city for a start, lots of similar size European cities have no trams.

cgcsb

In the UK you have Cardiff, Leeds, Bristol and Belfast all larger Cities with no metro or light rail. Although each of these cities have planned such a system, at least provisionally in the past but had those plans defeated by political wrangling and budgetary constraints. In the rest of Europe I'm not sure, you have Reykjavik(is that bigger than Cork?). Palermo is one anyway. I'm struggling to think of any continental west European Cities of Corks size lacking such a system. Perhaps you have some examples?

Nukem

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

why would anyone consider a LUAS type system for Cork when the bus services are so underutilised? Make the bus service more attractive to users first.

Park and ride from the black ash stops on the opposite quay so that would do a lot for parking. But don't know if the kinsale roundabout and link could handle another 1-2000 cars per day.

Would a park and ride system be better served from somewhere like little island train station area and have a bus/train link to the city stopping on penrose wharf?

whisky_galore

Where are these 3,000 workers all going to live, I wonder?

snotboogie

cgcsb wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

People don't use our bus service because it is unreliable and doesn't circumvent traffic, both of these issues would be solved by a tram service. How would you make our bus service better?

tram services are better because of segregation and higher capacity vehicles, if Cork is unable/unwilling to provide segregation for buses, how would you propose it provide segregation for trams?

Because buses can operate without segregation, much easier to kick the can down the road if you are 100% behind that method of public transport as the sole provider for the city.

There are plenty of cities much smaller than Cork (even taking the ridiculously conservative number for Cork City of 125,000) that are far less important to their countries economies (Cork generates about 15% of Ireland's GDP) that have decent tram networks; Rouen (pop 111k), Orleans (pop 114K), Besancon (pop 116K), Mulhouse (pop 112K), Nancy (105k), Zoetermeer (pop 123K), Liberec (pop 102K), Mestre (pop 89k), Zwickau (pop 91K), Ulm (120K) and so on and so on.

If you took the actual figure of 200k-250K, most cities in Europe of our size have a tram system and almost all cities that are as important to their country as we are

D'Agger

If Cork gets a light rail system, prepare yourself for numerous incidents of cars, breaking red lights, being stuck on lines

whisky_galore

D'Agger wrote: »

If Cork gets a light rail system, prepare yourself for numerous incidents of cars, breaking red lights, being stuck on lines

A pretty big 'if', I think you'll be safe enough.

D'Agger

whisky_galore wrote: »

A pretty big 'if', I think you'll be safe enough.

We'll be safe enough you mean, it's not just me I'd be worried for :pac:

cgcsb

D'Agger wrote: »

If Cork gets a light rail system, prepare yourself for numerous incidents of cars, breaking red lights, being stuck on lines

A girl was killed in Dublin because a red light breaker got hit by a tram, spun out and pinned her up to the wall. DCC is now spending big bucks installing a cameras and automatically issuing fines to the license plates of offenders. There is no accounting for the Irish driver.

j8wk2feszrnpao

cgcsb wrote: »

There is no accounting for the Irish driver.

What a load of crap.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

Where are these 3,000 workers all going to live, I wonder?

The joys of the rat race

DylanGLC

Does anyone have any update on these (Navigation Square and Anderson's Quay)? One Albert Quay looks great and seems to be a big success so I hope these can go ahead, the city needs them

MrDerp

whisky_galore wrote: »

Where are these 3,000 workers all going to live, I wonder?

To be fair there is unlikely to be 3000 net new jobs. One one albert quay, tyco pwc and Arup moved from other offices, and presumably more did too. Tyco admittedly were expanding and I'm sure plenty of people are moving to cork for work but that's not 3000 new families by any stretch.

Office space needs to be continuously replenished and I'm sure there's an appetite to move into these when they're done. It may enable a new employer to create jobs sure.

But I agree generally, we seriously need to get going on Monard if we're to move more workers into the city centre, it's the perfect growth area, it'll have train links and Kent station will be turned to face a revamped docklands

MrDerp

DylanGLC wrote: »

Does anyone have any update on these (Navigation Square and Anderson's Quay)? One Albert Quay looks great and seems to be a big success so I hope these can go ahead, the city needs them

http://cspwprdfe.cloudapp.net/casenum/247363.htm

Appeal is due to be decided upon by April 12th. Mainly objected to by Carey's tool hire on the grounds of height and something about affecting their ability to develop their own site

DylanGLC

MrDerp wrote: »

http://cspwprdfe.cloudapp.net/casenum/247363.htm

Appeal is due to be decided upon by April 12th. Mainly objected to by Carey's tool hire on the grounds of height and something about affecting their ability to develop their own site

Thanks for the link! That site says that the Carey appeal has been "withdrawn", though? I assume the Mulcahy's are the people are appealing it. I really hope it goes ahead

DylanGLC

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/247363.htm

Decision: Case has been decided, details will not be available before 24-Mar-2017

Praying it goes ahead

DylanGLC

Aaaandd it changed back to April 12th decison

mire

DylanGLC wrote: »

Aaaandd it changed back to April 12th decison

Well, according to that link, all of the third party objectors have withdrawn the appeals; the only objector now is the applicant who probably appealed the conditions....if they withdraw theirs, they have a full grant.

DylanGLC

mire wrote: »

Well, according to that link, all of the third party objectors have withdrawn the appeals; the only objector now is the applicant who probably appealed the conditions....if they withdraw theirs, they have a full grant.

Sorry, I probably sound like an idiot but I'm not very clear on the planning permission/appeals terminology. I Googled Appoville Ltd and they are the people who applied for planning permission. They are now the only ones listed as not withdrawn (other than the invited party) so the only one active in the entire appeal are the people who are building it? Do you mean that Appoville Ltd are appealing in order to change some of the original plans or they were just appealing the appeal by third parties (Careys, etc) who didn't want it to be built? Sorry again if these sound like stupid/basic questions but I'm very unfamiliar with the whole thing

ongarboy

It would mean the applicant is appealing to An Bord Pleanala some of the conditions Cork city council would have laid down.