Johnson & Johnson talcum powder - cancer case

gctest50

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-johnson-johnson-verdict-idUSKCN0VW20A

Johnson & Johnson was ordered by a Missouri state jury to pay $72 million of damages to the family of a woman whose death from ovarian cancer was linked to her use of the company's talc-based Baby Powder and Shower to Shower for several decades.

coverups-Я-us again

Jere Beasley, a lawyer for Fox's family, said Johnson & Johnson "knew as far back as the 1980s of the risk," and yet resorted to "lying to the public, lying to the regulatory agencies."

sullivlo

gctest50 wrote: »

coverups-Я-us again

I know they were found guilty in the court of law, and that they did hide the fact that it is a potential carcinogenic compound, but I'd like to see some of the data around the talc and the incidences of (ovarian) cancer.

I mean this is the powder that we shower babies with to give them a dry bum - surely if it's THAT toxic, the product would be immediately pulled from the shelf?

Many, many things that we use / consume on a daily basis are carcinogenic. Only need to look at cigarette sales and they were once deemed to be "good for you".

I'm not denying that j&j were in the wrong, but this seems to be scare mongering & the claim culture all over. My aunt died from ovarian cancer last January at age 53. She used j&j powder all of her life. Should we blame j&j for her untimely death and sue for $72mn?

No. We shouldn't. No amount of money can bring her back, and I'm sure that there were many other factors that lead to my aunt developing cancer. As is likely the case with the ongoing lawsuits in the states.

gctest50

sullivlo wrote: »

I know they were found guilty in the court of law, and that they did hide the fact that it is a potential carcinogenic compound, but I'd like to see some of the data around the talc and the incidences of (ovarian) cancer.

I mean this is the powder that we shower babies with to give them a dry bum - surely if it's THAT toxic, the product would be immediately pulled from the shelf?.....

No need to get carried away, that's the important thing

sullivlo wrote: »

Should we blame j&j for her untimely death and sue for $72mn?

No. We shouldn't.

62 million of that was punitive damages

Probably for failing to warn consumers of the risk even after Deane Berg

Deane Berg was awarded zero damages

Tests showed the talc was in her ovaries, her endometrium and lymph nodes

October 06, 2013

SIOUX FALLS (AP) — A federal jury in Sioux Falls has found that a woman’s use of Johnson & Johnson products that contained talcum contributed to her ovarian cancer.

The Argus Leader reports that the jury said Friday that Johnson & Johnson should warn consumers of the link between ovarian cancer and the use of talc-based body powder for feminine hygiene.

intheclouds

gctest50 wrote: »

No need to get carried away, that's the important thing

I dont understand what you mean by this comment?

sullivlo

gctest50 wrote: »

No need to get carried away, that's the important thing



62 million of that was punitive damages

Probably for failing to warn consumers of the risk even after Deane Berg

Deane Berg was awarded zero damages

Have they confirmed how the talc got into her ovaries, endometrium and lymph nodes?

& seconded in that I don't understand your carried away comment. If it's proven to be toxic, why is it still on sale? Sure even mars have recalled their chocolate in case there was plastic in it. A bit of swallowed plastic is surely not as bad as a cancer causing talcum powder?

Milly33

Missing that comment link too!!

A few questions yes how did the cancer get to the ovaries? and why was she using these as feminine hyg products..They aren't..

Id take it with a pinch of salt

gctest50

sullivlo wrote: »

Have they confirmed how the talc got into her ovaries, endometrium and lymph nodes?
...

That's well known for years - Egli and Newton ( 1961 ) found that carbon particles placed in the vagina passed to the Fallopian tubes in about 20 minutes in two out of three patients

sullivlo wrote: »

& seconded in that I don't understand your carried away comment. If it's proven to be toxic, why is it still on sale?

apologies - it's not THAT toxic, not going to kill you today or tomorrow - just increases the risk - bit like smoking and all the other things

.

sullivlo

gctest50 wrote: »

That's well known for years - Egli and Newton ( 1961 ) found that carbon particles placed in the vagina passed to the Fallopian tubes in about 20 minutes in two out of three patients




apologies - it's not THAT toxic

Okay, call me stupid, but why would anyone put talcum powder in their vagina? Am I the only woman doing it wrong?

Milly33

I was just about to ask... Why!

I know there is the old trick if you are in a hot country and you sweet you put talc on and it helps but I cannot say I have ever heard of anyone putting on their vagina

IvyTheTerrible

I don't use talc but I know people who do use talc in that way. (btw not "in the vagina", on the vulva, there is a difference) It's more common in people of my mother's generation.

Milly33

Really I suppose...Kinda gets to thinking though it isn't advertised as a ladies hyg product so where does the case come from ..

IvyTheTerrible

Milly33 wrote: »

Really I suppose...Kinda gets to thinking though it isn't advertised as a ladies hyg product so where does the case come from ..

Well it absorbs sweat and dampness so I suppose some women who wouldn't use pantyliners might use it for that reason.

sullivlo

I used to use talc in when exercising, at the top of my legs, just as a precaution to prevent the dreaded chub rub. But I'd never apply it directly to my bits!

Could call into question other feminine hygiene products that ARE aimed at vaginal application that may contain talc as a material.

Milly33

Yeah I understand alright....

Milly33

At least they are advertised though as vaginal products, I wouldn't think talc is..So kinda gets to thinking why apply it there.. I get a friend maybe told me this worked but still if it wasn't advertised as a vaginal product I wouldn't go putting it anywhere near it

Milly33

Interesting read here http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/talcum-powder-and-cancer

Makes you wonder alright what in the name of god do they put in stuff.. Now it was supposed to be knocked on the head in the 70's but before that asbestos was found in talc!! Mad.... I do thank now that 9times out of ten I read the label

intheclouds

gctest50 wrote: »

That's well known for years - Egli and Newton ( 1961 ) found that carbon particles placed in the vagina passed to the Fallopian tubes in about 20 minutes in two out of three patients

Do people put talc IN their vaginas? For what?

Milly33

as ivy said some older people use it for comfort I suppose really, it absorbs sweat and damp. Sounds like where talking a bout a attic haha but you get it... I have used it for sweating before but like not down there..

Reading up about stuff online there in some comments they say people are known to use it with condoms and liners, this is an American things me thinks....

intheclouds

I would have thought talc would be the opposite type of thing youd want to use with a condom!

Neyite

I think I've only used baby powder on babies or toddlers. But I've heard of older folk using talc back before there were antiperspirants and deodorants which only became commonplace in the 50's/ 60's. Powders have been used to absorb body odour for centuries before.

I presume it was to help absorb cervical mucus at the fertile times of a woman's cycle, as well as sweat, I'd assume not used internally though. But you never know. Trying to find sanitary ware that is unscented is getting more and more difficult.

It's like manufacturers keep on trying to persuade women that their natural vaginal secretions are somehow offensive. A woman who washes daily and changes clothes daily will not smell, (excepting certain medical conditions obviously) and does not need horribly scented pads and tampons. In fact, they usually make any smells far worse. She doesn't need deodorising vaginal soap, creams or powders either. It's perpetuating the belief that vaginas are dirty or messy or unclean. They are not.

IvyTheTerrible

Neyite wrote: »

I think I've only used baby powder on babies or toddlers. But I've heard of older folk using talc back before there were antiperspirants and deodorants which only became commonplace in the 50's/ 60's. Powders have been used to absorb body odour for centuries before.

I presume it was to help absorb cervical mucus at the fertile times of a woman's cycle, as well as sweat, I'd assume not used internally though. But you never know. Trying to find sanitary ware that is unscented is getting more and more difficult.

It's like manufacturers keep on trying to persuade women that their natural vaginal secretions are somehow offensive. A woman who washes daily and changes clothes daily will not smell, (excepting certain medical conditions obviously) and does not need horribly scented pads and tampons. In fact, they usually make any smells far worse. She doesn't need deodorising vaginal soap, creams or powders either. It's perpetuating the belief that vaginas are dirty or messy or unclean. They are not.

I think part of the confusion about whether it's used internally or not is due to the mixing up of vulva/vagina as terms.

I was baffled by scented tampax. I mean, they're INSIDE. If they are working properly and changed enough, no smell should be coming out anyway.
And if it's about smells in the bathroom, empty the flipping bin!

sullivlo

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think part of the confusion about whether it's used internally or not is due to the mixing up of vulva/vagina as terms.

I was baffled by scented tampax. I mean, they're INSIDE. If they are working properly and changed enough, no smell should be coming out anyway.
And if it's about smells in the bathroom, empty the flipping bin!

I cannot stand those scented yokes. Gross. Give me plain old regular non fragranced sanitary wear any day.

intheclouds

Neyite wrote: »

It's perpetuating the belief that vaginas are dirty or messy or unclean. They are not.

This ^^

gctest50

intheclouds wrote: »

Do people put talc IN their vaginas? For what?

You don't even have to put it near yer knickers it seems :

Ovaries were studied from 24 women undergoing incidental oophorectomy who were interviewed regarding talc usage.

Twelve subjects reported frequent perineal talc applications;

the twelve controls reported no use.

Ovarian tissue blocks were digested and analyzed by polarized light microscopy and analytic electron microscopy to identify and quantify talc.

RESULTS: Talc was identified in all 24 cases by either light or electron microscopy.

Talc particle counts were completely unrelated to reported levels of perineal talc exposure.

CONCLUSIONS: The detection of talc in all ovaries demonstrates that it can reach the upper genital tract.

Widespread exposure to talc during diapering may contribute to the ubiquitous presence of talc in ovarian tissue

http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378%2896%2970597-5/fulltext

Neyite

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think part of the confusion about whether it's used internally or not is due to the mixing up of vulva/vagina as terms.

Even if a woman just used talc in her underwear, it could migrate up into her organs - I think that's what one of the experiments concluded in what I've read about the issue. This women used it for decades it seems.

I'm sure you'd always get some who would insert it internally, the same way that you get women using Veet to remove pubic hair when it says not to use it on the genital area on the tube.

Milly33

Were just never save from anything..... Nickers, tampons, talc what next.. The poor miss's...

Das Kitty

To be frank, I'm surprised talc is still being marketed as a baby product.

I can't stand any of those j&j baby products.

Neyite

I found J&J too harsh for my baby, but talc is handy for getting sand off after the beach or sandpit. I might source a better substitute though -anyone know of any?

IvyTheTerrible

Neyite wrote: »

I found J&J too harsh for my baby, but talc is handy for getting sand off after the beach or sandpit. I might source a better substitute though -anyone know of any?

I always just stick L under the shower after the beach!

I don't mind the baby bath but I don't like the wipes (they are very harsh) and my mother sent me talc when he was a baby but I never used it. Not because of the ovarian cancer risk (tbh I'd never heard of it til this thread) but because of the warning of respiratory issues with the dust. Didn't want it getting into his little lungs. (Some of the midwives would go mad but I was a cotton-and-water advocate!) And it just gets EVERYWHERE.

intheclouds

Actually they banned talc in my gym recently, signs went up.

I wonder if it was because of complaints that it could be dangerous to your health?

I have used baby powder in my swimming hat on occasion because it helps it go on more easily.

Neyite

It's to get the sand off before he gets into the car. If we are in the massive litter tray playground sandpit near our house then he's dunked in the bath after.

Likewise, I never used it on him as a baby. He discovered it recently and loves it after his bath so I think I'll hide it. I was covered in talc as a kid, we all were.

Das Kitty

You can get powder based on corn flour.

IvyTheTerrible

Das Kitty wrote: »

You can get powder based on corn flour.

Rice flour too, it's the base of old style face powder too.

kylith

Neyite wrote: »

A woman who washes daily and changes clothes daily will not smell, (excepting certain medical conditions obviously) and does not need horribly scented pads and tampons. In fact, they usually make any smells far worse.

There's one woman in work who I always know has her period because she reeks of scented pantyliners.

sullivlo

There's a powder on sale in pharmacies (& perhaps supermarkets?) called Daktarin. It is an antifungal powder used for athletes foot, nappy rash, crotch itch...

It also contains talc. Wonder will those manufacturers be taken to court too??

Milly33

it is interesting to know what it is in..

Getting paranoid now after talking to my mum last night about this... Even read the label of juice this morning to make sure I knew everthing that was in it...

You think whatever does contain it really should be taken off the shelf at least...

I am wrecking my head now trying to think of what gets sand off easily..The only thing coming to my head at the moment is on of those sticky rollars haha not sure if a kid would put up with that...

Das Kitty

Aha!

Okay, so, according to IFLScience, the ruling may have been a bad one. (Links to studies are in the article)

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/family-wins-72-million-over-claims-talcum-powder-caused-ovarian-cancer

Yet because of its chemical similarity to asbestos, talc has continually been scrutinized as a possible cancer-causing agent. Namely, multiple studies over the years have drawn associations with genital application of talcum powder and ovarian cancer. While some research has concluded that talc use may modestly increase the risk of this particular type of cancer, the link remains a controversial one. Poor study design is often raised, with selection bias blamed for helping tip the scales to significance.

In addition, biological evidence to support this link is lacking as a mechanism of carcinogenicity has yet to be identified, and there appears to be no dose response. If talc was indeed a carcinogen, greater exposure would be expected to cause a greater risk of developing cancer, but that has not been observed with its use.

Furthermore, additional questions arise when route of exposure is considered. More intrusive products, such as condoms and diaphragms, which are coated with talc, have not been associated with a risk of ovarian cancer. “Considering talc a carcinogen lacks convincing scientific documentation,” one study concludes.

Milly33

Tis all all a little new I would think, read a few things too last night and it all seems half n half.... Mind the mention of asbestos would have me running a mile

Neyite

Milly33 wrote: »

I am wrecking my head now trying to think of what gets sand off easily..The only thing coming to my head at the moment is on of those sticky rollars haha not sure if a kid would put up with that...

I doubt he would :pac:.

The talc for the beach solves the whole wash-your-feet-then-walk-back-to-the-car conundrum. I remember the mother scrubbing us with a towel before we got into the car and we were scrubbed raw well exfoliated getting in The talc is painless and easy.

I might stick to using it on feet and hands, not that I considered putting it in my drawers anyway. I'd have been worried that a big cloud of talc would puff out of my jeans when I sat down at work. :pac:

Milly33

haha that's what himself was saying last night when we were talking saying when kids fart after putting it on it must puff clouds....

I remember the dreaded towel!! left red raw.. I am going to research today for you as it is a very good question...I have lots to do obviously!

gctest50

Third trial :

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-baby-powder-cancer-verdict-winner-20161028-story.html

Talcum powder cancer verdict winner: Money can't make up for lost health

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-28/j-j-loses-jury-verdict-in-third-talc-cancer-link-trial

Johnson & Johnson lost a third straight trial over claims its talcum powder can cause ovarian cancer with a St. Louis jury awarding a California woman more than $70 million.