Neightbour complaints about our dog

CruelCoin

Hi all,

Some background info:

We adopted a approx 18 month old German Shepherd bitch from the pound.
She is usually kept in the house, walked regularly (with muzzle), has a dog house outside for when we have to leave her at home. Any time we are away for more than 24 hours she goes to a local kennels. The garden is secure, with a high wall, and she has no chance to escape the property.

I work but my partner does not, and is usually at home with the dog. Last week, she was away for Saturday at a funeral and we had to put the dog outside while i was at work. She was on a chain, within easy reach of her dog house with plenty of food (kept inside her house to keep it dry), and water.

Now the issues: She barked all the time while outside, from the moment i left to the moment i came back. She snarls through the fence at a neighbours dog quite aggressively (she hates all other dogs).
I came home from work on Saturday and a guard came to the door and told me there had been several complaints about our dog barking. No case number was given to me, no paperwork, he didn't identify himself nor did he say who had made the complaint. I was shocked by this, as i was under the impression that the person making the complaint should have approached us first. Going straight to the guards seems like the nuclear option.

On top of that, today my partner has just told me that she had received the ISPCA at the door over a complaint about the conditions the dog was kept in. Apparently the dog was being kept outside with no shelter in the rain despite the fact that the dog house is there for all to see. We showed the inspector the house/garden/doghouse/etc and the inspector seemed happy enough and left, but gave no indication that this was the end of the matter.

I'm feeling quite hard done by, seeing as how i took this pup in from the pound and have done everything to care for it. We've done the responsible thing and had her spayed, chipped, vaccinated, wormed/de-flea'd, walked regularly, fed up so she's not the skin and bones as she was when we first took her in. etc. We have a massive box full of toys and treats which we are using to try get some of the bad habits out of her from her time as a stray.
And now, off the back of a single days barking i've has the guards and the ISPCA set upon me! I've never been in the least bit of trouble in my life, and have helped with community tidy-ups etc. The idea that i'm being painted as some kind of animal abuser sickens me.

We're now terrified that this is the start of a big chain of events that will be forced on us, and my partner is so frightened that she's even started to search for alternative homes for the dog (despite my protests) for fear that she'll be forcibly taken from us/put down.


Sorry for the wall of text, but any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

CC.

SteM

Once the dog has water, shelter and food then the ISPCA will be happy. The inspector won't contact you again if they if they're happy as you indicated.

OP, is this honestly the first time that the dog has been left outside all day? In my experience the ISPCA wouldn't normally call out so quickly unless they had a couple of calls from different sources or multiple reports over time. Likewise, it seems strange that the Gardai got involved straight away in what is a civil matter. What exactly did the Guard say to you, my understanding is that they don't get involved in stuff like this?

CruelCoin

SteM wrote: »

Once the dog has water, shelter and food then the ISPCA will be happy. The inspector won't contact you again if they if they're happy as you indicated.

OP, is this honestly the first time that the dog has been left outside all day? In my experience the ISPCA wouldn't normally call out so quickly unless they had a couple of calls from different sources or multiple reports over time. Likewise, it seems strange that the Gardai got involved straight away in what is a civil matter. What exactly did the Guard say to you, my understanding is that they don't get involved in stuff like this?

The dog has been left outside for a few hours at a time, but this is the first time it's been an entire day. We have tried vibration collars, collars that spray citronella, but they don't work. She keeps barking. The next step is a static shock collar, but for humane reasons i'm reluctant to try this.

The guards getting involved struck us also. He just said that there had been complaints, and that he had seen the dog from the upstairs window in one of our neighbours homes. He then said that it all looked fine and that the dog had no chance of getting loose. He then said that "maybe the dog will settle in".
Look, maybe this is just some friendly neighbourhood policing, but what it feels like is that one of our neighbours has called his guarda friend to put the frighteners on us, rather than come to us himself as he should have done.

McGrath5

I speak from experience here, but listening to another persons dog barking for the day can really get on your nerves.

Maybe the neighbor tried knocking on your door that day but nobody answered?

fathead82

The only thing that you can get in trouble for is if the dog is excessively barking or if she does damage to the neighbours dog through the fence. They can't just come and take your dog for no reason.
Some dogs go mad and bark a lot if kept on a chain when they are not used to it. Might be worth making a dog run and putting toys, chews or kongs in it to keep her busy while she is on her own. Or else leave her in the house if possible.

scamalert

seems theres more to the story then one time barking,is dog barking all the time,say when shes unhappy,not being let in left alone,and just for the sake of it.

I say that because its in many dogs nature to bark their heads off till no end-And even thou i have dog and it was trained well there's no unneeded barking anytime,yet all the neighbors around me leave their pets when their off to work,to bark their heads off for whole days,which i see totally irresponsible to others,since people have different schedules some wake up early,some late and its worst thing to hear in the morning whole day when someones throws their pet out and goes about their business,same at nights when it gets warmer you still have some dog howling/barking all night long 20 houses away in an estate.

My neighbors on one side in fact did a reasonable thing and got rid of their dog,granted it was puff ball,but constant barking and no one in the family caring for it seemed they at least made decent decision,since barking alone 24/7 for years when dog was put out every day was too much,not that i ever complained.

Also have neighbor on other side and while dog barks a lot in recent years it became more aware thus just warning barks if someone is around the house.


So that said,given that you have large size dog and if its prone to barking-depending on people who live close by can easily lose their minds even if its on occasions,since no one likes someone else pet outside ruining their day/night whenever owners decide to put it out and leave unattended.

Anyway you took the dog in,and depending on where you live who lives beside you,large dogs require a lot more attention as well as different breeds have different needs.

I know even owning medium size dog is hassle to put it out since mine is mixed breed and walks are needed constantly to keep dog happy,only luck i got when adopting that it was already trained no to bark for no apparent reasons.

That said some people dont address issues directly,rather going to extreme option thus you will have those who dont own pets or prefer quiet ones doing it for their own sanity,since where i live people leave dogs in houses all day long to bark at their windows,but granted most are well trained or too small to interfere with others lives-and your situation seems it happened more then once and big dogs can be heard long distances,thus if your committed,youll need to find some classes or whatever they offer these days to get your dog trained and behave addressing barking issue.

Since its not safety issue as per your description ,but managing your pet and being respective of those who live around you,since getting dog is easy part,but training it and looking after it is like caring after 4y old,i know i had close encounters by underestimating my dog thus nearly avoiding getting in troubles,even further with people that dont own pets it can be really hard.

CruelCoin

fathead82 wrote: »

The only thing that you can get in trouble for is if the dog is excessively barking or if she does damage to the neighbours dog through the fence.

Next step is static collar.

Fence is that concrete slab stuff, so no chance that injury can happen.

CruelCoin

scamalert wrote: »

seems theres more to the story then one time barking,is dog barking all the time,say when shes unhappy,not being let in left alone,and just for the sake of it.

Not the case.

The dog is inside when we are home. And outside if we're away from home for more than 2/3 hours.

She is never, i repeat, never left outside when we are home.

She barks outside only mostly, sometimes inside.

She barks at everything: Car doors, house alarms, other dogs, ice cream van, etc. She's better than she used to be, but its still there.
Walking her can be tricky, as she loses her mind when she sees another dog.

CruelCoin

scamalert wrote: »

if your committed,youll need to find some classes or whatever they offer these days to get your dog trained and behave addressing barking issue.

Oh we are. We knew going in that a stray dog can have behavioural issues.

Food is one such one. She used to snatch food from the table/counter. She guards her food when she's eating, taking a mouthfull from her bowl then turning around to eat it. Again, its better than it was. The snatching has stopped and she's eating more slowly, which is an improvement.

tk123

McGrath5 wrote: »

I speak from experience here, but listening to another persons dog barking for the day can really get on your nerves.

Maybe the neighbor tried knocking on your door that day but nobody answered?

+1 There's noting more irritating than listening to a dog going demented looking for it's owners. I could set my clock by the two close to me who are left out to bark for a few hours at a time. My dog would do exactly the same thing so he's never left outside to annoy everyone.

Stealthfins

It's hard going listening to a dog barking all day.
It goes through you,on the one hand the dog could be under stress,then the people listening to the dog get stressed,now your stressed it causes a ripple effect.
Check the collar,make sure the dog has toys,something to chew on and maybe some sort of stimulus that's a distraction.

Maybe a vet could help.

A German shepherd's bark can get right into the eardrum,almost like a shot gun.

Rap rap rap rap very irritating constantly...

kathleen37

Good for you for taking her in.

Sorry if I missed it, but how long have you had her? Good that she's improving with things like food, but I'm wondering whether you would consider a few sessions with an animal behaviourist with her? Just thinking it may help with the possessiveness over the food, as well as the behaviour when she sees other dogs. That's a horrible situation to be in as you must be stressed every time you take her out for a walk, in case you come across other dogs and she goes mental. May be that she's stressed too when she's not with you's which leads to the barking?

Good luck. I really hope you get sorted.

Sunny Dayz

CruelCoin wrote: »

We have tried vibration collars, collars that spray citronella, but they don't work. She keeps barking. The next step is a static shock collar, but for humane reasons i'm reluctant to try this.

If you have had to try a few things to stop her barking, then obviously there is some problem there with barking and noise. There must be more barking than just the one afternoon. Agreed with what other posters have said, spending time in your own home and listening to someone else's dog barking going through you. It gets into your head, you can hear it almost anywhere in the house, it vibrates around in your head.
My next door neighbour has a dog and there are some mornings or afternoons I can't wait to get to work to get away from the dog barking. It barks at any car or person nearby.
Another time I actually had to leave my house one afternoon, a dog two doors up literally did not stop barking.
I've told neighbours about their dogs barking, they just say sorry about that but do nothing more.

Raminahobbin

Would it be an option for you to leave the dog inside when you're out OP?

My dog would have howled the place down if we had ever left her outside for more than a few minutes- some dogs just really, really want to be inside. Listening to a dog barking non stop is incredibly stressful, so I completely understand where the neighbours are coming from if the barking is constant.

The dog is obviously distressed outside. Unhappy. All the shock/spray collars in the world won't fix this- they might stop the dog barking (MIGHT) but the dog will still be distressed.

At 18 months, the dog should be okay to hold it's pee for 4 hour stretches. If you left the dog inside, and asked a neighbour to let the dog out to pee at lunch time, I would be fairly confident the barking would stop. If neighbours aren't around, you could also book a dog walker to come take the dog for a walk- since it's not often the dog is left for extended periods, it wouldn't work out very expensive.

If it's damage you're worried about, then restrict her access. If she continues barking inside, then it's a separation anxiety and you will have to work on this with her, maybe get a behaviourist involved.

borderlinemeath

For all that say "there must be more to it" - there probably is. People in general have a preconceived opinion about German Shepherds.

OP, it doesn't help that your girl doesn't like other dogs. It will have helped form the opinion in a few of your neighbours heads that she's savage/dangerous/aggressive/all of the above and the barking can have been the opportunity they were waiting on to try and rid their neighbourhood of what they consider to be trouble. I know so many people who have the notion that sheps are vicious dogs and nothing will sway their opinion. And most of them are dog owners but will believe media hype and bias about the breed.

For now, there's nothing really you can do re the visit, but I would implore you not to get a shock collar. Sheps are nervous enough dogs without adding in the trauma of a shock, and she may redirect her aggression from getting a shock onto you or your partner. They are a recipe for disaster.

Is she crate trained at all? A crate in the corner of the kitchen would be a far better option than leaving her out in the garden for a short while. (although not suitable for all day use) It will shield her from the garden and any environmental noises she is hearing in the distance.

Regarding classes, I wouldn't go to them with a dog aggressive dog. You'll be excluded if there's any trouble so you won't benefit at all. What you need is a home visit from a behaviourist, who will see your dog in her home environment, identify the triggers that are causing her barking and hopefully be able to work out a plan for you and your dog. TBH, it's not so much about training the dog, it's about training the owners to work with the dog. Same goes for the food guarding and issues with other dogs, it's something that any good behaviourist will be able to help you with. If you tell us the general area that you live in, posters will probably be able to recommend a qualified behaviourist that covers your county.

Letree

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not the case.

The dog is inside when we are home. And outside if we're away from home for more than 2/3 hours.

She is never, i repeat, never left outside when we are home.

She barks outside only mostly, sometimes inside.

She barks at everything: Car doors, house alarms, other dogs, ice cream van, etc. She's better than she used to be, but its still there.
Walking her can be tricky, as she loses her mind when she sees another dog.

You could safely assume your dog then barks for the 2/3 hours. I have two dogs near me and they bark quite a bit. I hate it. People don't mind their own dogs barking because they know they can stop it at any time. But it is not the same for your neighbours. They just have to sit and hope it stops. Then when it does they sit agitated waiting for it to start again. That is my experience anyway. You get pleasure from your dog. Your neighbours get nothing other than the barking. Don't underestimate how angry your neighbours can feel about the barking.

njs030

Why do you put her outside if you know she going to bark?
You admit yourself she barks when outside, it's obviously not the first time it's happened so maybe you needed change your way of being a dog parent.

You seem to expect credit for "taking her in from the pound" she doesn't know how to thank you other than in her own way. It's highly possible they she is trying to thank you by barking loudly to protect herself and your home....no one has broken in or murdered you while she's been doing it so she's doing a good job in her eyes!
Maybe looking at it from a simpler point of view might help. Leave her inside where she feels safe and where any barking is muffled, leave a radio on so she can hear people talking or even a recording of yourself and your oh on some kind of a loop so she thinks you're there. Lots of blankets that smell of you and a kong to keep her busy.
Maybe start leaving her alone inside for a short time and then for longer periods, punishment collars do nothing more than confuse the dog imo.
Have you considered a second dog to keep her company? It might sound crazy but 2 is sometimes easier than one as they entertain each other. Something easygoing like a lurcher could solve things.

CruelCoin

notjustsweet wrote: »

Why do you put her outside if you know she going to bark?
You admit yourself she barks when outside, it's obviously not the first time it's happened so maybe you needed change your way of being a dog parent.

You seem to expect credit for "taking her in from the pound" she doesn't know how to thank you other than in her own way. It's highly possible they she is trying to thank you by barking loudly to protect herself and your home....no one has broken in or murdered you while she's been doing it so she's doing a good job in her eyes!
Maybe looking at it from a simpler point of view might help. Leave her inside where she feels safe and where any barking is muffled, leave a radio on so she can hear people talking or even a recording of yourself and your oh on some kind of a loop so she thinks you're there. Lots of blankets that smell of you and a kong to keep her busy.
Maybe start leaving her alone inside for a short time and then for longer periods, punishment collars do nothing more than confuse the dog imo.
Have you considered a second dog to keep her company? It might sound crazy but 2 is sometimes easier than one as they entertain each other. Something easygoing like a lurcher could solve things.

I don't expect credit. I mentioned the pound only to highlight that she was a stray and comes with behavioural problems.
Just as most serial foster parents (such as my own parents) will know, that many of the kids that come along have issues.

Another dog? Possibility, but given the time it took to get the dog to stop lunging at the cat (took a while but they're fast friends now), and her aggression to other dogs, i'd be reluctant to try this.

I put her outside as i'd have thought it cruel to keep her cooped up for extended periods (also the toilet issue).

Also; what's a "kong"?

CruelCoin

Raminahobbin wrote: »

If she continues barking inside, then it's a separation anxiety and you will have to work on this with her, maybe get a behaviourist involved.

Probably. She's kept in the kitchen at night. She's jumping at the door handle when she hears me in the morning, and whines a little when i put her to bed at night.

CruelCoin

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Regarding classes, I wouldn't go to them with a dog aggressive dog. You'll be excluded if there's any trouble so you won't benefit at all. What you need is a home visit from a behaviourist, who will see your dog in her home environment, identify the triggers that are causing her barking and hopefully be able to work out a plan for you and your dog. TBH, it's not so much about training the dog, it's about training the owners to work with the dog. Same goes for the food guarding and issues with other dogs, it's something that any good behaviourist will be able to help you with. If you tell us the general area that you live in, posters will probably be able to recommend a qualified behaviourist that covers your county.

I'll investigate a at-home behaviourist. Cheers. I'm in the Westmeath area.

CruelCoin

The main trust for starting this thread lads, was to find out where i stand regarding the ISPCA.

Is there some sort of procedure to follow, what do i do next, should i expect paperwork etc?

If people can be set on me ala ISPCA inspector on false grounds (It was claimed that there was no shelter. If they can see the dog, then they can see the massive bloody dog-house right next to her), then surely i have some sort of recourse?

Yes, the dog is barking, and yes i am making changes to try get her to stop, but as with anything, false accusations of something as serious as animal abuse can't just be brushed off the sleeve, nor will i brush it off.

Letree

CruelCoin wrote: »

Yes, the dog is barking, and yes i am making changes to try get her to stop.

Have you many neighbours. Because most of them will be bothered by the barking.

njs030

CruelCoin wrote: »

I don't expect credit. I mentioned the pound only to highlight that she was a stray and comes with behavioural problems.
Just as most serial foster parents (such as my own parents) will know, that many of the kids that come along have issues.

Another dog? Possibility, but given the time it took to get the dog to stop lunging at the cat (took a while but they're fast friends now), and her aggression to other dogs, i'd be reluctant to try this.

I put her outside as i'd have thought it cruel to keep her cooped up for extended periods (also the toilet issue).

Also; what's a "kong"?

I've had many dogs as fosters and worked in rescue so Im aware of problems - you said you feel hard done by because she's not behaving how you want her to- but you're not really looking at why she could be doing it or changing your own behavior.
A lot of dogs bark when left alone and bored outside, most neighbors find this annoying so it's up to you to change how you're acting to fix it. If it's cruel to keep her inside its just as cruel to leave her in a place where she's nervous and chained up so has no way of getting away from all the stimulus. At least inside there's safety and the added bonus that barking won't be quite as annoying. A kong is a dog toy you full with goodies like meat or peanut butter, they have to try to open it and it keeps them busy for ages. Plus it would be good for her clever gsd brain.
A behaviourist is a great idea and people on here will advise you.

The ispca probably won't come back but unless you stop the barking the neighbors will eventually report you to the Council and you could end up with a fine.

CruelCoin

Letree wrote: »

Have you many neighbours. Because most of them will be bothered by the barking.

Yes, i know they are bothered by the barking, but this is no justification for making false accusations.

Can you imagine it? "My neighbour is playing the drums, i'll report him for beating the crap out of his kids, that'll learn him". It's broken logic, and vindictive in the extreme.

I'm likely now on a "potential dog abusers" list somewhere in an ISPCA file, and this sickens me.

Letree

CruelCoin wrote: »

Yes, i know they are bothered by the barking, but this is no justification for making false accusations.

Can you imagine it? "My neighbour is playing the drums, i'll report him for beating the crap out of his kids, that'll learn him". It's broken logic, and vindictive in the extreme.

I'm likely now on a "potential dog abusers" list somewhere in an ISPCA file, and this sickens me.

I agree its not on. They are just looking for a solution out of desperation i'd imagine.

intheclouds

I think you are overreacting tbh.

Someone probably called the <snip> and said a dog was left outside all day long, barking its head off, sounded like it was in distress, its been barking for HOURS, look at the weather these days etc.... can you investigate?

What do you expect the <snip> to do? Hang up and not bother to look into it?

Isnt it great that they actually check into these things?

Cherry Blossom

The Ispca won't disclose who reported you to them, the person may even have done it anonymously so they might not even know themselves. I wouldn't pay it much heed.

There is a man has horses in a field near me that belong to his teenage son. Someone reported him. The horses had light rugs on to keep them clean as the young fella shows them. Some passer-by decided rugs in summer meant they were hiding neglect.

It is better people report things because they have got the wrong end of the stick rather than ignore things that should be reported. On the other hand it could have just been some person overly annoyed with the barking that wanted to cause you hassle.

Milly33

To me honestly sounds like your neighbour is being a pain in the ass.. Your dog looked at their perfect pooch the wrong way and it thought danger..

Have you tried to maybe call to your neighbours.Just say something like you recently got a call saying some reported the dog. Say that you aren't saying it was them (call to all the close neighbours or neighbours in the area) but that you would love to know if you dog is putting neighbours and you would love for them to come to you directly if they have any issues as it wasn't clear why the guard or the animal crowd were called..

Sometimes neighbours just like to whine, very surprised a guard called out to be hones..Would think unless they had several complaints over a month or two, then they would call but for one complaint! I doubt it, the guard is hardly a friend ??

Can you ask the animal crowd that called to maybe give you a report of what they found when they did call, so lets say so and so called the guards again and they came around you can say look this has happened before and here is a report saying his shelter etc was ok...

I don't think to be honest they can do much more unless they have some very serious complaints and even at that, unless again the guard is a friend of theirs and they are just scare mongering...I would defo go for the sweet talking the neighbours or just calling to them to say sorry for the barking but a dogs a dog..

And well done to you for going to the pound to get the pooch, you should be thanked for that!! Honestly not taking the piss but most although they say they will, will not...

tk123

CruelCoin wrote: »

Yes, i know they are bothered by the barking, but this is no justification for making false accusations.

Can you imagine it? "My neighbour is playing the drums, i'll report him for beating the crap out of his kids, that'll learn him". It's broken logic, and vindictive in the extreme.

I'm likely now on a "potential dog abusers" list somewhere in an ISPCA file, and this sickens me.

Possibly they complained about you because they wanted you to get a scare and do something about the dog barking which should be your priority now.. not complaining that a report has been made against you. My neighbours dog was out barking at 2:20am the other night when it was quite frosty here.. but has a kennel so by your logic that's ok? Does your dog even use it's kennel?

You should record her (video and audio) when you go out and maybe get another perspective on what's happening - I've done it myself with my own dogs to see what I need to change etc.

hardCopy

CruelCoin wrote: »

Also; what's a "kong"?

https://www.kongcompany.com/en-uk/products/for-dogs/rubber-toys/classic-rubber-toys/classic/

They are a great way to keep the dogs mind occupied while you're out.

Stuff it with wet food, bits of kibble, peanut butter, cream cheese, anything soft and tasty and leave out with the dog when you go out. For longer durations freeze the kong overnight. If I leave our dog out at 8:30 he'll still be working on a frozen kong at 1pm.

Our guy gets half his day's kibble in a 500ml 7up bottle, the lid is just small enough to let the kibbles out but he has to shake it and tip it to get the food out, squash the bottle a bit for an extra challenge.

When I'm working his day goes something like:
Outside for hotdogs
Eat kibble from bottle, this could take him the guts of an hour
Eat whatever has melted from the top of the kong
Eat his dentastick
Patrol the garden
Have a nap
Wake up to eat defrosted kongs
Chase magpies away from kongs
Eat kongs
More sleep
Mammy's home!

Have you tried leaving him out for very short periods and letting him back in before he starts barking? This time could then be really gradually lengthened with the aid of distractions like kongs and bottles.

There are loads of other distacting puzzle games for dogs too, the wobbler is popular but we haven't needed it yet: https://www.kongcompany.com/en-uk/products/for-dogs/interactive-toys/wobbler/wobbler/

IlmoNT4

Have you tired talking to your neighbor?

If you know the dog is barking and upset when you leave, you could get a dog sitter.

Your neighbor may not feel that they are able to approach you, hence the cops and the ISPCA. Why not knock in, give them your number and ask them to contact you if there is a problem with the dog. Explain you are getting training and the steps you are taking to ensure that there is peace and quiet for everyone.

A barking dog is not only distracting for an entire day but its distressing to listen to, especially if you like animals.