Cleaning requirements at end of tenancy

slowjoe17

My landlady has sent me a pdf of what she wants done at the end of a tenancy. (List follows at end).

The windows weren't cleaned, grout scrubbed or carpet hoovered prior to entering. What is the situation here?

Text:
To ensure full return of deposit:

1. Return all keys: shed & side gate, internal doors & windows

2. Transfer utility accounts as instructed

3. Return all rubbish bins, empty

4. Cleaning: all electrical goods must be cleaned thoroughly- including hobs, ovens,
fridge, and washing machine/dishwasher filters. If appliances are freestanding,
check for grease & crumbs around and behind, pull out & clean

5. Sanitary Ware: all toilets, baths, showers, sinks & mirrors to be cleaned free of
scum and polished. Special attention to base of taps and tiling/tiling grout (a
toothbrush and parazone work great in these areas). Bath cabinets must be empty
and cleaned out

6. Kitchen & Bathrooms: all presses, shelves & counters washed out and empty, tiles
cleaned (no grease)

7. General: windows cleaned inside (both floors) & out (ground level), window
ledges and all skirting dusted and washed, fireplace dusted, carpets shampooed,
furniture clean

8. Gardens: Grass must be short with edges trimmed, shrubs trimmed, weeds pulled
and any paving clear of weeds, shed returned empty save for lawnmower and few
gardening tools.

9. All electrical appliances will be checked to be in working order prior to return of
deposit

THANK YOU

Stheno

I don't see anything wrong with that request tbh

Mrs OBumble

slowjoe17 wrote: »

The windows weren't cleaned, grout scrubbed or carpet hoovered prior to entering. What is the situation here?

You should have discussed that prior to entering, not now.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Seems reasonable.

yqtwqxqm

I lived in an apartment in Dublin, where I had to pay up front for a contract cleaner to clean it.
Basically I had to hand over 1 months deposit + first months rent + €200 for cleaning and painting after I left, before I even moved in.
A contract cleaner was going to clean the place when we moved out and I didnt need to worry about any cleaning. We just removed all our stuff and left the place empty.
We all knew where we stood right from the beginning.


When I lived in Paris that upfront fee was €900 for cleaning and painting after I left and is much more common than Dublin.
Next tenant moves in to newly painted and properly cleaned apartment, pays for cleaning and painting in advance, moves out and on and on.
It works quiet well.

punisher5112

What way was the house when you took it?

It obviously has to be clean but I doubt you are a professional cleaner op....

I have been unlucky where all places we have taken were left dirty before entering even though in 2 cases they said it would be cleaned.

Have been in 5 seperate places and have found other houses etc been cleaned professional when other tenants have left.

Pkiernan

You are not required to clean the exterior surface of any windows.
You are not responsible for garden unless your lease satstes different.

Gael23

To me there's nothing unreasonable there.

Kepler 186f

Reasonable to me too

McGrath5

Looks reasonable to me, leave the property as you would like to find it.

slowjoe17

punisher5112 wrote: »

What way was the house when you took it?

It obviously has to be clean but I doubt you are a professional cleaner op....

I have been unlucky where all places we have taken were left dirty before entering even though in 2 cases they said it would be cleaned.

Have been in 5 seperate places and have found other houses etc been cleaned professional when other tenants have left.

As I said before, garden was overgrown, windows weren't cleaned, carpets had not been shampood, grout had not been scrubbed, there were plants coming up through the drive.

I've done the windows (including taking paint splashes off from however last painted the place), done the drive, pruned back the bushes (which took about 6 hours), cleaned out the surfaces I used.

Shampooing the carpets and taking a toothbrush to grout is taking liberties IMO.

What happens if I refuse to address these?

Stheno

You won't get your deposit back imo, or will have a deduction.

Last place I rented I had the carpets professionally cleaned before I left, so maybe I'm being pedantic about it, but the place was spotless before I left.

And yes, I did clean the grout and taps

esforum

Pkiernan wrote: »

You are not required to clean the exterior surface of any windows.
You are not responsible for garden unless your lease satstes different.

Are you sure, aren't renting the entire property including curtilage, not just the house?

slowjoe17

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I lived in an apartment in Dublin, where I had to pay up front for a contract cleaner to clean it.
Basically I had to hand over 1 months deposit + first months rent + €200 for cleaning and painting after I left, before I even moved in.
A contract cleaner was going to clean the place when we moved out and I didnt need to worry about any cleaning. We just removed all our stuff and left the place empty.
We all knew where we stood right from the beginning.


When I lived in Paris that upfront fee was €900 for cleaning and painting after I left and is much more common than Dublin.
Next tenant moves in to newly painted and properly cleaned apartment, pays for cleaning and painting in advance, moves out and on and on.
It works quiet well.

That's lovely.

However, the question is about today in Dublin, not Paris.

Likewise, I didn't enter a place newly decorated, or indeed, professionally cleaned. The question I asked was, can the landlord ask for the place to be returned in significantly better condition than when it was let?

Stheno

slowjoe17 wrote: »

Likewise, I didn't enter a place newly decorated, or indeed, professionally cleaned. The question I asked was, can the landlord ask for the place to be returned in significantly better condition than when it was let?

Yes, they can.

Turtle_

When did cleaning grout become unusual? Like that's a routine part of cleaning that you'd do any time it starts looking a bit grotty... Every 6 weeks or so here (although it really needs the grouting redone). It's only a very minor job when you keep on top of it regularly. Same with the base of taps, they should be routinely cleaned.

Carpets won't set you back much... Tbh it sounds reasonable. Thorough, yes, but still reasonable. Just leave it how you'd like to find it. And take lots of pictures including behind furniture etc. and keep the receipt for the carpets. That way you get your deposit back.

Or talk to the landlord, agree to leave it neat and tidy and agree a cleaner in advance to give it a deep clean with that deducted from your deposit.

punisher5112

I can understand ll wanting it clean but I would be giving it back exactly as it was when 1st moved in.

Anyone hear of normal wear and tear???

All the places I have left were cleaner then when I got them.
Some people are so dirty and the bathrooms were revolting.

slowjoe17

Turtle_ wrote: »

When did cleaning grout become unusual? Like that's a routine part of cleaning that you'd do any time it starts looking a bit grotty... Every 6 weeks or so here (although it really needs the grouting redone). It's only a very minor job when you keep on top of it regularly. Same with the base of taps, they should be routinely cleaned.

Carpets won't set you back much... Tbh it sounds reasonable. Thorough, yes, but still reasonable. Just leave it how you'd like to find it. And take lots of pictures including behind furniture etc. and keep the receipt for the carpets. That way you get your deposit back.

Or talk to the landlord, agree to leave it neat and tidy and agree a cleaner in advance to give it a deep clean with that deducted from your deposit.

There are 6 taps in the property, and they'll be well cleaned. Reasonable cleaning is fine.

There are probably 6000 tiles - they chose something between 1 inch and 2 inch square for the bathroom floor, for example. Cleaning the grout with a toothbrush sounds excessive to me.

punisher5112

slowjoe17 wrote: »

There are 6 taps in the property, and they'll be well cleaned. Reasonable cleaning is fine.

There are probably 6000 tiles - they chose something between 1 inch and 2 inch square for the bathroom floor, for example. Cleaning the grout with a toothbrush sounds excessive to me.

Get bleach pour on floor let soak then clean away but open windows as fumes.

I had to do that in all places I have been as they were growing mould and black.

Even had to re grout one bathroom shower this was all when we had just moved in.

blindsider

What does your lease/tenancy agreement say?

TBH it sounds reasonable to me, but you should probably have found the property in the same condition when you moved in..or notified the LL of an issue.....

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I think that all sounds reasonable if you'd moved in and found the place equally as clean. You say that wasn't the case, so in your shoes I'd be pissed off.

Afaik the landlord has to hire a cleaner and show receipts before they can deduct from your deposit, they can't hold onto it and do the cleaning themselves.

If you think she's chancing her arm and getting you to spruce up her home on the cheap, you could call her bluff & just leave it as you found it. There's the possibility that she'll just get a cleaner in and stop the cost out of your deposit though. All depends on what you can afford to do.

Personally, I'd give it back as I got it & no more.

slowjoe17

Stheno wrote: »

Yes, they can.

Can you provide a link to back this up?

In the UK, you cannot request improvement on condition received (called betterment). I'm extremely surprised that betterment can be requested in Ireland.

Stheno

slowjoe17 wrote: »

Can you provide a link to back this up?

In the UK, you cannot request improvement on condition received (called betterment). I'm extremely surprised that betterment can be requested in Ireland.

NO I don't believe it's covered tbh by our rental laws.

the_pen_turner

have you pictures of the condition when you moved in.

slowjoe17

the_pen_turner wrote: »

have you pictures of the condition when you moved in.

No pictures.

There was no inventory provided either.

newacc2015

slowjoe17 wrote: »

Likewise, I didn't enter a place newly decorated, or indeed, professionally cleaned. The question I asked was, can the landlord ask for the place to be returned in significantly better condition than when it was let?

That is an issue you should have raised when you moved in.If you werent happy with the cleanliness when you moved in, you should have told the LL. Do you not think if the LL is being so picky with the cleaning now, that probably were with the former tenant when you moved in? You just cant remember after such a long period of time.

Irish tenants are so filthy. Most think that washing the kitchen floor and emptying the bins counts as handing the house back in an acceptable state. Would you like to move into a new house and find the place filthy?

Stheno

newacc2015 wrote: »

Irish tenants are so filthy. Most think that washing the kitchen floor and emptying the bins counts as handing the house back in an acceptable state.

Are you joking? Last place I rented years ago, I had the carpets professionally cleaned, the oven, fridge etc were scrubbed inside and out, kitchen cupboards were emptied and wiped down.

Bathrooms were cleaned including grout.

Is that not normal?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

newacc2015 wrote: »

That is an issue you should have raised when you moved in.If you werent happy with the cleanliness when you moved in, you should have told the LL. Do you not think if the LL is being so picky with the cleaning now, that probably were with the former tenant when you moved in? You just cant remember after such a long period of time.

Irish tenants are so filthy. Most think that washing the kitchen floor and emptying the bins counts as handing the house back in an acceptable state. Would you like to move into a new house and find the place filthy?

Good stuff, start the tenancy off on the right foot by bitching about having to hoover the floor. In the real world most of us just want a quiet life, and wouldn't be expecting something like this to crop up.

hytrogen

*spoiler alert* get a professional cleaner in for half a day, pay them the rate, show them the to-do list & go out on the lash with your full deposit back in hand the first week you move into the next place!
It feels amazing

dr.fuzzenstein

Am I the only who pictures scenes from Full Metal Jacket at mention of the toothbrush?

Graham

Stheno wrote: »

Are you joking? Last place I rented years ago, I had the carpets professionally cleaned, the oven, fridge etc were scrubbed inside and out, kitchen cupboards were emptied and wiped down.

Bathrooms were cleaned including grout.

Is that not normal?

Professional carpet cleaning and scrubbing the grout would not be particularly normal unless you were a particularly untidy tenant and the property required that sort of heavy cleaning to return it to the condition it was when you moved in.

I can't imagine many circumstances where the PRTB would side with a landlord insisting a property be returned in a much better condition than it was at the start of the tenancy.

davo10

You are in a good situation op with a good LL.

The list is entirely reasonable and you are assured your deposit will be returned if that list is completed. Many tenants worry about their deposit being returned or have it withheld at the end of the tenancy for spurious reasons, I suspect most tenants would appreciate the certainty of your situation.

ellejay

I would feel very hard done by if I was the OP.

I certainly think it's worth a phone call to give the landlord your side of the story.
If the the landlord is asking the tennant to move out, a PRTB query could take a long time to resolve, so it would be in the LL's interest to resolve it.

The list might have been a copy and paste job the LL got off the internet somewhere.

But really, the tennent should have kept the tiles and grouting in good condition as they went along.

davo10

ellejay wrote: »

I would feel very hard done by if I was the OP.

I certainly think it's worth a phone call to give the landlord your side of the story.
If the the landlord is asking the tennant to move out, a PRTB query could take a long time to resolve, so it would be in the LL's interest to resolve it.

The list might have been a copy and paste job the LL got off the internet somewhere.

But really, the tennent should have kept the tiles and grouting in good condition as they went along.

Hard done by in what way? The list is pretty much what would be expected of a tenant moving out, clean the place, clean th windows, cut the grass, empty the bins, transfer utilities etc.

Rubberchikken

op
it would read like a reasonable list if you had moved into the property and all on the list had been done for you.
if, however, you have pictures that prove certain things weren't in good condition/clean then maybe bring it up with the LL.

davo10

Rubberchikken wrote: »

op
it would read like a reasonable list if you had moved into the property and all on the list had been done for you.
if, however, you have pictures that prove certain things weren't in good condition/clean then maybe bring it up with the LL.

Am I missing something? Op has been told that if he cleans the place he will get his deposit back in full, no messing around. He even has a list to work off, just clean the place, pocket your deposit and move on.

You could argue that it wasn't clean when you moved in, they will argue it was or you would have said something, then they will deduct cost of cleaning from the deposit. Wear and tare are not the same as a state of uncleanliness.

BabysCoffee

All seems ok to me except for the carpet shampooing.

However, if there are any major stains caused by you on the carpet I think you should attempt to get those out.

Mink

Really wish I'd taken photos of property when I first moved in as it was fairly filthy. The previous tenants had done a runner and the management agency didn't get professional cleaners in, they just asked their handymen to give it a once over (cleaned the floors, general wipe down).

I spent aaaagggggeeees scrubbing after I moved in. I just assumed that I'd be considered to be a whinge bag for asking for a proper clean to be done.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Mink wrote: »

Really wish I'd taken photos of property when I first moved in as it was fairly filthy. The previous tenants had done a runner and the management agency didn't get professional cleaners in, they just asked their handymen to give it a once over (cleaned the floors, general wipe down).

I spent aaaagggggeeees scrubbing after I moved in. I just assumed that I'd be considered to be a whinge bag for asking for a proper clean to be done.

Unfortunately seems to be a lesson for the future.

What we need is a system like Australia where the agent/landlord fills out a very detailed (official) checklist noting each and every flaw before a tenant moves in. The tenant then either agrees to each comment or adds his own. The checklist is produced on moving out and as long as any "damage" has already been identified on moving in, then the deposit is repaid.

groovyg

Op when you have all the cleaning done make sure to take lots of pictures with the most recent date. There have been a few threads here from tenants who haven't got their deposit back and then had to go an lodge a case with the PRTB which is a long drawn out process.

eirbear1989

When I moved into my apartment the places needed a good scrub, it looked clean but when I opened presses, oven, fridge etc you could see it wasn't. I always keep the place clean but I sure as hell wont be scrubbing it when I leave.

davo10

eirbear1989 wrote: »

When I moved into my apartment the places needed a good scrub, it looked clean but when I opened presses, oven, fridge etc you could see it wasn't. I always keep the place clean but I sure as hell wont be scrubbing it when I leave.

Are you not concerned that you won't get your full deposit back if the LL says you failed to clean it?

newacc2015

Stheno wrote: »

Are you joking? Last place I rented years ago, I had the carpets professionally cleaned, the oven, fridge etc were scrubbed inside and out, kitchen cupboards were emptied and wiped down.

Bathrooms were cleaned including grout.

Is that not normal?

Not all. My parents had a house that wasnt cleaned in 4 years. Im not exaggerating. We took one look at and decided to get it professionally cleaned. By the end of the day, the company 8 staff in there and broke 2 vacuums as the carpet was so full of dust.

You can seem at OP response he was surprised he actually had to make a decent effort of cleaning the house.

Graham

newacc2015 wrote: »

You can seem at OP response he was surprised he actually had to make a decent effort of cleaning the house.

Or you could see the OPs surprise at being expected to return the house in better condition that he received it.

davo10

Graham wrote: »

Or you could see the OPs surprise at being expected to return the house in better condition that he received it.

In the absence of photographs, "condition" is subjective. Seriously, wouldn't you think that the thing to do is put a bit of elbow grease into it and just get your deposit back?

Graham

davo10 wrote: »

In the absence of photographs, "condition" is subjective. Seriously, wouldn't you think that the thing to do is put a bit of elbow grease into it and just get your deposit back?

I'd have no problem returning any property in at least as good a condition as I received it. If I thought the landlord was trying to pull a fast one insisting on more, I'd take my chances with the PRTB.

I can't see the PRTB supporting a landlords complaint that the grouting hadn't been scrubbed in accordance with their specific conditions.

davo10

Graham wrote: »

I'd have no problem returning any property in at least as good a condition as I received it. If I thought the landlord was trying to pull a fast one insisting on more, I'd take my chances with the PRTB.

I can't see the PRTB supporting a landlords complaint that the grouting hadn't been scrubbed in accordance with their specific conditions.

Or, you could just clean it, get your deposit back and move on.

debabyjesus

Scrub grouting with a toothbrush? Don't forget to dust the lightbulbs!

Dyr

Last I heard landlords could not legally deduct from the deposit for cleaning costs

Graham

Bambi wrote: »

Last I heard landlords could not legally deduct from the deposit for cleaning costs

They can but there are limitations and they can't charge for their own time.