Apple refusing to unlock phone for FBI

esforum

mass_debater wrote: »

There is a difference to what Apple have done before, Apple have access to iPhone backups which is what was used in other cases, this is different as there is no backup and the information must be taken from the phone

What difference? If they are happy to give up your privacy then its given up.

I cant explain ti any better than this:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/26/11120760/apple-vs-fbi-legal-brief-explained

and still no answer to my question

esforum wrote: »

Let me ask a set question here, if the iphone in question contained information on a kidnapped child or if the phone belonged to a child pornography producer and accessing it could result 'possible' in the safe finding and rescuing of children that are being abused, would you still agree with Apples stand?

mass_debater

esforum wrote: »

What difference? If they are happy to give up your privacy then its given up.

Because they're not asking them to hand over an encrypted backup, they're asking them to hack their own phone.

https://threatpost.com/apple-asks-court-to-drop-order-to-unlock-iphone/116494/

Allyall

A different approach to a similar problem:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brazil-arrests-facebook-executive-over-data-access-dispute-1.2555900

Brazil arrests Facebook executive over data access dispute

Federal police in Brazil apprehended the vice president of Facebook for Latin America on Tuesday after the company failed to co-operate with judicial orders related to its WhatsApp messaging service in a drug-trafficking investigation. Court officials in Sergipe state confirmed the detention of Diego Dzodan and police said he remained in custody for questioning in Sao Paulo state.
Facebook called the detention an “extreme and disproportionate measure,” adding in an emailed statement that the company “has always been and will be available to address any questions Brazilian authorities may have.”

....

Privacy concerns have frequently put Facebook and other internet giants at odds with Brazilian law enforcement seeking evidence in criminal cases, although the confrontations rarely rise to the prominence of Apple Inc’s current standoff with the US federal bureau of investigation. In December, a judge suspended Facebook’s popular WhatsApp phone-messaging service in Brazil for about 12 hours after it failed to comply with two court orders to share information in a criminal case. ....

5uspect

esforum wrote: »

and again it has to be pointed out, they have already done it on other phones. There is no magic wand to give the FBI, Apple will still posess the ability to open phones, an ability they already posess but have decided to stop using for law enforcement.

I asked a question thats conveniently being ignored I notice

Apple are being asked to write unprecedented code to make their entire security invalid. This is not about just one phone. There are many phones that the U.S government want unlocked. We have seen time and time again how the intelligence services have invaded the privacy of citizens without any real reason other than fear mongering completely ignoring their citizens right to privacy. We have seen, again and again, how they share their spying tools with other intelligence services.

Can you really justify this behaviour? Do you think this is all about one phone? Do you not see this as the thin edge of an Orwellian wedge?

Had the phones iCloud password not been reset Apple could have provided the online backups from the phone, which incidentally is owned by the terrorists employer, the couple destroyed their personal phones. The cops involved in the case had admitted that there probably isn't anything of interest on the device so you can forget about your hypothetical kiddies.

harry Bailey esq

Why don't they just bring it down to one of the string of phone shops that run the length of Moore Street? Those gentlemen would unlock it in two minutes. 15,000 smackheads can't be wrong. Perhaps they don't want to become embroiled in a diplomatic incident with China,and who could blame them I suppose..

RobertKK

The US Department of Justice have said in a court filing that they no longer need Apple and want to cancel their hearing with Apple as they have found a way to access the phone.
They say a third party has demonstrated to the FBI a possible method to unlock the phone and it should eliminate the need for assistance from Apple.

gctest50

The US Department of Justice have said in a court filing that they no longer need Apple and want to cancel their hearing with Apple as they have found a way to access the phone all iPhones, they are currently in the pub celebrating

robinph

The FBI have actually lost here.

They have done what they should have been doing from the start and gained access to the phone without Apple breaking the OS which is great. But it means they have lost their reasons for trying to get Apple, or anyone else, to create back doors through any encryption for them.

walshyn93

I'm not sure it has been mentioned yet but I think a major reason for Apple's reluctance wasn't necessarily respect for privacy, it's that if they allow their cybersecurity to be compromised they can kiss goodbye to their big contracts with banks, governments and other big businesses to supply secure devices to their employees. How many millions of people's private information has fallen into the wrong hands because someone lost a laptop? Indeed they'd likely be compromising the security of their own information.

Allyall

robinph wrote: »

The FBI have actually lost here.

They have done what they should have been doing from the start and gained access to the phone without Apple breaking the OS which is great. But it means they have lost their reasons for trying to get Apple, or anyone else, to create back doors through any encryption for them.

Maybe not.
They have proven it can be done, but that it is just time consuming, and when they are trying to prosecute somebody, they may only have a limited time frame to work with.

Although, saying that, if Apple had given them access and he turned out to be innocent...

Little CuChulainn

robinph wrote: »

The FBI have actually lost here.

They have done what they should have been doing from the start and gained access to the phone without Apple breaking the OS which is great. But it means they have lost their reasons for trying to get Apple, or anyone else, to create back doors through any encryption for them.

I think Apple has lost. Rather than create a process where they control access and allow the FBI access via a court order they have forced the FBI into developing a method that may allow them access to all phones.

RoyalMarine

Could Apple take the FBI to court and request information on how they gained access to the iPhone in order to patch what ever loop hole the third party used to gain access to it?

Little CuChulainn

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Could Apple take the FBI to court and request information on how they gained access to the iPhone in order to patch what ever loop hole the third party used to gain access to it?

Unlikely. They held their ground and now the key to their software is in the hands of the FBI and a third party. I can't see how this was a winner for them at all. If anything, they'll be more inclined to cooperate with the FBI in the future to preserve their software encryption for longer.

BattleCorp

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Could Apple take the FBI to court and request information on how they gained access to the iPhone in order to patch what ever loop hole the third party used to gain access to it?

I am wondering if it's the NSA that have figured out how to access the iPhone?

They have unbelievable resources, employ the most mathematicians etc. We don't even know half the sh1t that they have. There is bugger all that they can't access if they are determined to do it.

Anita Blow

Unlikely. The fact the phone wipes itself after 10 failed attempts is a fairly simple but effective security method considering the main way they try to bypass security is by sampling hundreds/thousands of passwords per second until they get the right one

BattleCorp

Anita Blow wrote: »

Unlikely. The fact the phone wipes itself after 10 failed attempts is a fairly simple but effective security method considering the main way they try to bypass security is by sampling hundreds/thousands of passwords per second until they get the right one

They would probably just copy the iPhone software from another phone, deconstruct it and see where there are flaws. Then if they had success, they could use that info to get into the terrorist's iPhone without having to use brute force. Given enough time and resources, practically anything is crackable.

robinph

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I think Apple has lost. Rather than create a process where they control access and allow the FBI access via a court order they have forced the FBI into developing a method that may allow them access to all phones.

No, the FBI has access to all current iphones using this technique.

If the FBI had won the court case they would have gained access to all current and future iphones, and any other phone manufactures devices, as the precedent would have been set.

As it is, things are just as they were previously in that one bunch of people continually come up with more secure encryption and another bunch of people continually come up with ways to crack it. But no special back door for the FBI has been created by Apple.

old_aussie

Federal prosecutors said "an outside party" had come forward with a method for unlocking the encrypted phone. - See more at:

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/03/29/fbi-cracks-san-bernadino-attacker-s-iphone.html

Probably cracked by some 12 year old.

We'll soon see the cracking instructions on ebay for $4.99

Apple and it's "unbreakable" encryption counts for jack ****e if you can crack the phone using another method.

Back to the drawing board Apple, or you could hire the 12 YO.

Poor Apple, the security dream has become a nightmare.

The Randy Riverbeast

All of that and it turns out the FBI just weren't able to do it. They might want to up their game a little or will just just outsource all their work?

old_aussie

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

All of that and it turns out the FBI just weren't able to do it. They might want to up their game a little or will just just outsource all their work?

Outsourcing is the go, I mean how expensive can a 12 YO be?

darkpagandeath

Stuff like this makes me laugh, Insert American Inelegance agency reading all your stuff.... Turns out they cant.

Subcomandante Marcos

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Stuff like this makes me laugh, Insert American Inelegance agency reading all your stuff.... Turns out they cant.

They can mass gather meta-data. They can intercept your communications (texts, emails, calls), but they can't access the phone itself because it's protected by a very, very sophisticated encryption, and rightly so.

Apple themselves can't decrypt the data, but they can push a version of iOS which will allow them to access it onto the phone, the problem with this is that once it's created, it's out there, and it will get leaked.

darkpagandeath

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They can mass gather meta-data. They can intercept your communications (texts, emails, calls), but they can't access the phone itself because it's protected by a very, very sophisticated encryption, and rightly so.

Apple themselves can't decrypt the data, but they can push a version of iOS which will allow them to access it onto the phone, the problem with this is that once it's created, it's out there, and it will get leaked.

They ran into a speed bump on this, CC transactions and Online banking share similar encryption. They used to focus on harvesting this but the T's realised the best way to hide is in the mass of data they cant feasibly scan general traffic. Some of the prime numbers can eventually be brute forced in months. My guess is someone found a pattern in the data and used it to break the encryption. T's generally stay away from Tor and all known high encryption means. In the wild is far easier to hide with the amount of data going around.

BattleCorp

I wonder did the NSA crack the encryption for the FBI?

I'd be surprised if there was anything that the NSA couldn't crack if it was important enough.

Allyall

I wonder will they give the access info to all of the other cases relying on evidence locked inside iphones.

YFlyer

BattleCorp wrote: »

I wonder did the NSA crack the encryption for the FBI?

I'd be surprised if there was anything that the NSA couldn't crack if it was important enough.

The Israeli hacker company Cellebrite.