Is there any proof?

Your Face

Hi,
I've an interest in the paranormal in general, ghost and spirits in particular.
I'm wondering has there been any well-documented cases or hard to dismiss evidence that spirits etc. exist?

maccored

i can't explain this. Its a supermarket inside a shopping centre. there were three of us in the shopping centre (reputedly haunted) and no-one else. the shopping centre was locked and we had the keys. the supermarket itself was also locked and also had its alarms set (this was verified by the supermarket manager the following day) so I can't explain how the tannoy system is changing volumes and turning off and on, nor can I explain the voices.

it doesn't prove anything, but I haven't figured out how it happened. Tried many times since and have never captured the same kind of thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxqilnPB-x0

happyoutscan

I have a couple of possible solutions to this, think I might have mentioned one before.

- Depending on the height of the roof, young lads up drinking and their radio/voices carrying through the venting system. I've seen this first hand and it is actually quite eerie. The noise on your video is somewhat too loud for this I think though.

- Most supermarkets in these shopping centres have their own security so its very possible - contrary to whatever the supermarket manager told you - that there was security in the supermarket that night who were making the racket.

- My guess though is that the shopping center security were watching your movements - from their security office - and through sheer boredom played the music through the tannoy system for you to hear. They would have been tracking your movements by camera obviously and would have witnessed your reactions to it. The security set ups are top class so this would have been quite easy for them to do. Extremely childish of them but I would guess this is what happened.

maccored

happyoutscan wrote: »

I have a couple of possible solutions to this, think I might have mentioned one before.

- Depending on the height of the roof, young lads up drinking and their radio/voices carrying through the venting system. I've seen this first hand and it is actually quite eerie. The noise on your video is somewhat too loud for this I think though.

- Most supermarkets in these shopping centres have their own security so its very possible - contrary to whatever the supermarket manager told you - that there was security in the supermarket that night who were making the racket.

- My guess though is that the shopping center security were watching your movements - from their security office - and through sheer boredom played the music through the tannoy system for you to hear. They would have been tracking your movements by camera obviously and would have witnessed your reactions to it. The security set ups are top class so this would have been quite easy for them to do. Extremely childish of them but I would guess this is what happened.

I would love any of those to be the solution as i wouldn't have to scratch my head about it, but theres not a hope anyone was drinking on the roof and they do not have their own internal security - verified by the supermarket manager and the shopping centre manager.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

maccored

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

don't know what that adds to the conversation bar that the paranormal is very subjective. bit like trying to define good music - different people see different things, and yet though you can hear music, you can't replicate what you heard afterwards. Same with the paranormal. you might experience something truly weird, but how can you convince anyone else of that after the fact? audio and video can be tampered with and faked, or just misunderstood. doesn't mean some audio and video isn't genuine though.

Your Face

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

I always thought that groups like this come across a bit ostentatious. I'm all for exposing exploitation but these remind of the story of Diogenes looking for an honest man.

catbear

I would have thought that proof would remove any sense of the paranormal or mysterious.

RoadhouseBlues

I would love to have a conversation with a priest about the paranormal. Although with all the giving out I have done about the church, I would prob burst into flames in the presence of one:-). I lived in one strange house before. Never again. In the 80's in the same estate, a priest had to be called out to one of the houses because of all the things happening. Everyone was out watching the priest walking up to the house. He died not long afterwards. I suppose I have added nothing to the proof part, but I would never dismiss stories now.

happyoutscan

maccored wrote: »

I would love any of those to be the solution as i wouldn't have to scratch my head about it, but theres not a hope anyone was drinking on the roof and they do not have their own internal security - verified by the supermarket manager and the shopping centre manager.

So it then might be possible that it was the third guess, that the shopping centre security may have been playing tricks if they were following your movements.

Could also have been cleaning staff.

Your Face

happyoutscan wrote: »

So it then might be possible that it was the third guess, that the shopping centre security may have been playing tricks if they were following your movements.

Could also have been cleaning staff.

I suppose it would be possible to find out the cleaners and security staff working hours.

mickmackey1

catbear wrote: »

I would have thought that proof would remove any sense of the paranormal or mysterious.

What is the definition of 'proof' though? In the bizarre world of quantum physics/mechanics for example, the concept of proof is very different from the conventional meaning.

NIMAN

I have always been skeptical, and now in a world of every punter having a good quality camera on their phone, I am even more so.

If ghosts, moving statues, UFOs, etc etc were at all real, then we'd have plenty of good quality videos by now.

And we haven't.

NIMAN

maccored wrote: »

i can't explain this. Its a supermarket inside a shopping centre. there were three of us in the shopping centre (reputedly haunted) and no-one else. the shopping centre was locked and we had the keys. the supermarket itself was also locked and also had its alarms set (this was verified by the supermarket manager the following day) so I can't explain how the tannoy system is changing volumes and turning off and on, nor can I explain the voices.

it doesn't prove anything, but I haven't figured out how it happened. Tried many times since and have never captured the same kind of thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxqilnPB-x0

I watched your clip expecting to hear something 'eerie', instead I heard music. Music!

Sorry, but that hardly takes any great explaining. Someone was playing music on a radio or a CD. There was obviously someone else around, and its a fairly simple explanation.

To try to say this was paranormal is a bit of a stretch.

TheHillOfDoom

I think the Exorcist was based on real life events.

TheHillOfDoom

The Exorcist is a 1971 novel by American writer William Peter Blatty. The book details the demonic possession of twelve-year-old Regan MacNeil, the daughter of a famous actress, and the Jesuit psychiatrist priest who attempts to exorcise the demon. Published by Harper & Row, the novel was the basis of a highly successful film adaption released two years later, whose screenplay was also written by Blatty.

The novel was inspired by a 1949 case of demonic possession and exorcism that Blatty heard about while he was a student in the class of 1950 at Georgetown University.[1] As a result, the novel takes place in Washington D.C. near the campus of Georgetown University. In September 2011, the novel was reprinted by Harper Collins to celebrate its fortieth anniversary, with slight revisions made by Blatty as well as interior title artwork by Jeremy Caniglia.

TheHillOfDoom

There are still a few Catholic priests who deal with exorcisms. Apparently.

NIMAN

It might have been. But 'based' as a term doesn't mean everything happened as in the film. As stated in Post#16, the author wrote the story based on a story he had heard. Hardly 100% proof that it happens as he said it did. Artistic license maybe to make his book more exciting?

Someone might say a person acting crazy is 'possessed by the devil', whereas someone else might just say they are acting crazy.

TheHillOfDoom

Things listed in the Roman Ritual as being indicators of possible demonic possession include: speaking foreign or ancient languages of which the possessed has no prior knowledge; supernatural abilities and strength; knowledge of hidden or remote things which the possessed has no way of knowing; an aversion to anything holy; and profuse blasphemy and/or sacrilege.

TheHillOfDoom

Niman - perhaps you might BASE your next reply on having read all of the thread.

NIMAN

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Things listed in the Roman Ritual as being indicators of possible demonic possession include: speaking foreign or ancient languages of which the possessed has no prior knowledge; supernatural abilities and strength; knowledge of hidden or remote things which the possessed has no way of knowing; an aversion to anything holy; and profuse blasphemy and/or sacrilege.

I know plenty of unpossessed people who qualify on these last 2 points.:rolleyes:

TheHillOfDoom

NIMAN wrote: »

I know plenty of unpossessed people who qualify on these last 2 points.:rolleyes:

Aren't you a lucky guy!

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

I've heard of a few houses that were repossessed...

Riamfada

Please stay on topic

Your Face

NIMAN wrote: »

I have always been skeptical, and now in a world of every punter having a good quality camera on their phone, I am even more so.

If ghosts, moving statues, UFOs, etc etc were at all real, then we'd have plenty of good quality videos by now.

And we haven't.

If I saw something like what you mentioned I'm not sure that I'd have the wherewithal to take out my phone, open it, open the camera and take steady well shot footage and photographs.

NIMAN

Your Face wrote: »

If I saw something like what you mentioned I'm not sure that I'd have the wherewithal to take out my phone, open it, open the camera and take steady well shot footage and photographs.

There are nearly as many phones now in the world as people.

There are CCTV and security camera's galore. So much so that nearly daily you can check out people being run over by trucks or having near misses in the remotest parts of the world.

Yet still not one good clip of anything that proves aliens and UFOs visit us, ghosts, moving statues etc etc.

You'd think by now we'd have at least one good clip. Just one?

topmanamillion

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
The Randi prize ran for about 50 years and no one came within an asset roar of claiming the prize.

Your Face

NIMAN wrote: »

There are nearly as many phones now in the world as people.

There are CCTV and security camera's galore. So much so that nearly daily you can check out people being run over by trucks or having near misses in the remotest parts of the world.

Yet still not one good clip of anything that proves aliens and UFOs visit us, ghosts, moving statues etc etc.

You'd think by now we'd have at least one good clip. Just one?

You're wrong about CCTV.
Once away from a city centre or a business there is very little CCTV.
As regards footage, if it was too good it would
called fake.

maccored

NIMAN wrote: »

There are nearly as many phones now in the world as people.

There are CCTV and security camera's galore. So much so that nearly daily you can check out people being run over by trucks or having near misses in the remotest parts of the world.

Yet still not one good clip of anything that proves aliens and UFOs visit us, ghosts, moving statues etc etc.

You'd think by now we'd have at least one good clip. Just one?

there are many, many, many apparent videos of ufos and ghosts. with todays technology its impossible to tell if a video is faked or apparently genuine

NIMAN

Any links to recent clips which might shows aliens, UFOs, or ghosts?

happyoutscan

I'd have a strong enough interest in the paranormal after a couple experiences of my own, yet the lack of proper evidence is compelling.

quainy

So let's take the stereotypical haunted location for example, an old abandoned house in the middle of nowhere.

In most cases these houses don't have electricity, that means no CCTV. Along with that it also means poor lighting. That means that our great cameras are rendered next to useless due to the fact that they rely on drawing in light. Our eyes can adjust to a lack of light, our mobile phones, not so much.

Personally, I don't know what to believe, what I do feel is that eye witnesses are sufficient to send people to jail and in some parts of the world, sentence people to death. With this in mind I reckon that they are a viable source of proof and there are no lack of eye witnesses to hauntings, sightings, possessions etc.

So I guess, in my personal opinion there is proof. It's up to each individual as to whether or not they accept it.

maccored

NIMAN wrote: »

Any links to recent clips which might shows aliens, UFOs, or ghosts?

go look - the internet is full of them