Why are schools used for voting

thomasm

The two local schools in my area are closed for polling next week which is a pain as it means taking a days holidays or putting 3 of them into daycare.

I understand if some areas have no alternative venues but here there are two parish halls/community centers with ample rooms and parking within 50 meters in one case and 100 meters in the other. Is there some regulation that says schools must be used?

Genuine question and not a prelude to teacher bashing hopefully.

Edit: Meant to post in politics forum and cant move or delete

Graces7

Interesting question. Here it is the community centre that is used. So it seems strange indeed if there is alternative accommodation. As a child we used to love it as we had an extra day off!. No idea about other villages

whiskeyman

http://www.thejournal.ie/why-are-schools-used-as-polling-places-1112804-May2014/

The Department of Local Government says that it is an issue for local Returning Officers, but more often than not, it comes down to the facilities on hand.
In a parliamentary reply on the issue after the Children’s Rights referendum last May, junior minister at the Department of Local Government said that the issues of location, access and cost play a part.
“Polling places normally will be in a village or some other population centre. The returning officer is required to locate polling stations as conveniently as possible for use by the electorate in each polling place.
“In selecting locations, the traditional approach has been to use schools.

"This is understandable given their central location in most communities, and especially so in rural areas over the years where a viable alternative to the local school would have been difficult to find. In these challenging economic times, it is also worth noting that the use of any school for the taking of a poll or counting of votes is free of charge where the school is in receipt of a State grant".

punisher5112

State run and costs minimal as not having to rent out private property.

kneemos

Churches . There's a church in every village.

Easca Peasca

I'd imagine the schools were chosen to be used as they were the common denominator that all areas shared, before halls and centres were commonplace.

It surely would take very little effort, if any, to switch over from using schools?

whiskeyman

kneemos wrote: »

Churches . There's a church in every village.

Imagine having an abortion referendum in a church!

colm_mcm

kneemos wrote: »

Churches . There's a church in every village.

Can't see anybody objecting to having to go into a church to vote.

cnocbui

Stealth - churches would have been too obvious.

BizzyC

kneemos wrote: »

Churches . There's a church in every village.

And confessional boxes remove the need for those costly stations so you can fill in your ballot in peace...

AnonoBoy

It's so we can go back and see our old schools without feeling like weirdos.

Come on - everyone has a little poke around when they go to vote, don't they?

Sunny Dayz

Our voting was, for many years, held in the local 3rd level college. Then in the last few years they moved it to my son's national school. Such a pain cos there's less parking at his school, I have to sort out childcare for the day and he already has two days mid term this week plus 2.5 weeks off next month!


Question: why does the whole school have to close for it? I know not all schools have room but certainly in my son's school they such facilities that they could have one classroom free for voting and still have all pupils accommodated and taught that day.

AlanG

I understand the need for school halls in a few rural areas especially given the short notice for some votes but it seems mad to close down a school completely just because the hall is in use. Hire 1 extra person for the car park and 1 for security at each site would be better than paying a school full of staff to be absent.

BizzyC

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Our voting was, for many years, held in the local 3rd level college. Then in the last few years they moved it to my son's national school. Such a pain cos there's less parking at his school, I have to sort out childcare for the day and he already has two days mid term this week plus 2.5 weeks off next month!


Question: why does the whole school have to close for it? I know not all schools have room but certainly in my son's school they such facilities that they could have one classroom free for voting and still have all pupils accommodated and taught that day.

Would you be happy to have potential weirdos poking around your son's school?
Any other day of the year there would be questions asked of the creepy guy randomly walking on school property...

kneemos

AnonoBoy wrote: »

It's so we can go back and see our old schools without feeling like weirdoes.

Come on - everyone has a little poke around when they go to vote, don't they?

Everything looks so much smaller.

gandalf

Thankfully we use our local community centre these days. TBH as a country we should not be depriving our children of a days education to run an election. Also I believe voting should be extended over a whole weekend rather than just one day.

iguana

whiskeyman wrote: »

Imagine having an abortion referendum in a church!

Reminds me of the equality referendum last year. Right at the door of the room my parents and brothers went to vote in was a table with a big religious display full of statues of holy Mary. I'm sure it was meant innocuously, it was a Queen of the May table, and just something some teacher had done with his/her class at the start of the month. But I couldn't help wonder if it would have influenced some voters. I know an awful lot of older people who really struggled with how to vote as they felt deep down that they should vote yes but were very conflicted about voting against their church.

Badly Drunk Boy

colm_mcm wrote: »

Can't see anybody objecting to having to go into a church to vote.

What about those of us who are liable to burst into flames on entering a church?

seamus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Can't see anybody objecting to having to go into a church to vote.

Not sure if sarcastic...

But yes, churches would of course be ridiculously inappropriate places to hold elections.

As others have said, schools typically represent the only large building in an village that can be taken at short notice for a whole 2-3 days at little or no cost.

They're also usually designed to be central and accessible and not down the end of some muddy, grassy bohreen.

Sunny Dayz

BizzyC wrote: »

Would you be happy to have potential weirdos poking around your son's school?
Any other day of the year there would be questions asked of the creepy guy randomly walking on school property...

I can't speak for other schools but I know in my son's school the room that is used for voting can be closed off from the rest of the school, it can have a separate entrance into the building.
If there was an issue of people wandering around the school yard a few cones and a bit of tape could surely be spared by the council?

diomed

Now that the recession is over why not build a polling station in every village and provide much needed employment? And we could employ caretakers for when they are not used. Put the country back to work.
(copyright - I don't want Sinn Féin stealing my super economic ideas)

wandatowell

It's handy for the teachers who work at the polling centers

kneemos

Why have any polling stations?Just pick up a polling card and drop it in on the day.Have someone there to check there's only one card going in.

AnonoBoy

kneemos wrote: »

Why have any polling stations?Just pick up a polling card and drop it in on the day.Have someone there to check there's only one card going in.

"Oh I didn't get my polling card. Can I have another please?"

Two votes for me thanks!

murpho999

kneemos wrote: »

Churches . There's a church in every village.

Is this for real?

Imagine the image that would portray as well impinging on the separation of church and state.

Schools are also generally bigger and have more room than Churches.

The real issue is that Elections should be held on a Saturday or Sunday so that more people can vote and school days are not impacted.

murpho999

AnonoBoy wrote: »

"Oh I didn't get my polling card. Can I have another please?"

Two votes for me thanks!

Simple, polling card would have a number and if it's used it's used. Would need to be electronically done though.

padd b1975

seamus wrote: »

As others have said, schools typically represent the only large building in an village that can be taken at short notice for a whole 2-3 days at little or no cost.

They're also usually designed to be central and accessible and not down the end of some muddy, grassy bohreen.

And they're always certain to be available on election days, it's a no-brainer really.

andekwarhola

thomasm wrote: »

The two local schools in my area are closed for polling next week which is a pain as it means taking a days holidays or putting 3 of them into daycare.

I understand if some areas have no alternative venues but here there are two parish halls/community centers with ample rooms and parking within 50 meters in one case and 100 meters in the other. Is there some regulation that says schools must be used?

Genuine question and not a prelude to teacher bashing hopefully.

Going on memory (?), since 2011, we've had 5 polling days: a general election, local election and 3 referendums. I think a presidential election was held simultaneously with one of the referendums.

It's hardly an unimaginable inconvenience that would justify squandering taxes on renting - and enduring the headache of sourcing - private polling stations when free - centrally located in communities - polling premises already exist?

andekwarhola

gandalf wrote: »

Thankfully we use our local community centre these days. TBH as a country we should not be depriving our children of a days education to run an election. Also I believe voting should be extended over a whole weekend rather than just one day.

There's far more chance of there being a school in every constituency than an community centre. Not least a community centre that's a suitable size, free to rent and not booked for something.

Weekend voting would definitely be a goer but then you'd probably just get lot of people whinging that it interferes with their leisure time.

Moral of story: people whinge.

d2ww

andekwarhola wrote: »

Going on memory (?), since 2011, we've had 5 polling days: a general election, local election and 3 referendums. I think a presidential election was held simultaneously with one of the referendums.

It's hardly an unimaginable inconvenience that would justify squandering taxes on renting - and enduring the headache of sourcing - private polling stations when free - centrally located in communities - polling premises already exist?

You are not factoring in costs to all the parents in added childcare, lost earnings for the self employed etc. In my sons 22 teacher school, that's hundreds of parents inconvenienced, because the returning officer would not spend a few hundred euro renting a hall. It's especially galling as only the hall is being used, none of the classrooms, yet the entire school has to shut down.

donegal.

BizzyC wrote: »

Would you be happy to have potential weirdos poking around your son's school?
Any other day of the year there would be questions asked of the creepy guy randomly walking on school property...

thats exactly what happens in my kids school.
the school is using rooms in a youth club and were promised their own building 16 years ago.
theres loads of other courses held there and anyone can come and go when they like.
on the plus side they dont miss school on polling day

thomasm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Going on memory (?), since 2011, we've had 5 polling days: a general election, local election and 3 referendums. I think a presidential election was held simultaneously with one of the referendums.

It's hardly an unimaginable inconvenience that would justify squandering taxes on renting - and enduring the headache of sourcing - private polling stations when free - centrally located in communities - polling premises already exist?

...and in this instance where the parish halls are located beside the schools and can be rented for €5 per hour do you think it too much for government to spend circa €60-65 on this as opposed to me and many others paying €100 for a days childcare. Not much heartache in involved in choosing to go across the road and not having to empty out a bunch of tables and chairs

andekwarhola

thomasm wrote: »

...and in this instance where the parish halls are located beside the schools and can be rented for €5 per hour do you think it too much for government to spend circa €60-65 on this as opposed to me and many others paying €100 for a days childcare. Not much heartache in involved in choosing to go across the road and not having to empty out a bunch of tables and chairs

I've a tiny suspicion they're probably thinking about what is most convenient and cheapest process for the nation as a whole. I doubt they're going to table a cabinet meeting about your parish hall and childcare costs. You never know though.

Steppenwolfe

gandalf wrote: »

Thankfully we use our local community centre these days. TBH as a country we should not be depriving our children of a days education to run an election. Also I believe voting should be extended over a whole weekend rather than just one day.

I'd be in agreement with that. However, most the complaints seem to be from people worrying about who's going to look after their kids for them.

andekwarhola

d2ww wrote: »

You are not factoring in costs to all the parents in added childcare, lost earnings for the self employed etc.

It's an inconvenience for me as well but there's been 5 polling days(?) since 2011 and we're unlikely to see 3 referendums in the space of 5 years as a regular occurrence.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

It should always be held in schools because of ease of use and cost benefits. But voting should be done on a weekend day, possibly both Saturday and Sunday.

There's no real logical reason that kids should miss a day of school and teachers get a full day of pay on a Friday while most people would find it more convenient to vote on a weekend anyway.

thomasm

andekwarhola wrote: »

I've a tiny suspicion they're probably thinking about what is most convenient and cheapest process for the nation as a whole. I doubt they're going to table a cabinet meeting about your parish hall and childcare costs. You never know though.

Not sure how inconveniencing potentially hundreds of thousands of people is most convenient on the whole when a simply solution exists. In terms of cost, how about a small percentage reduction in the amount of posters, pamphlets, adverts etc...Less rubbish to recycle and money and holidays saved by many

seamus

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

It should always be held in schools because of ease of use and cost benefits. But voting should be done on a weekend day, possibly both Saturday and Sunday.

There's no real logical reason that kids should miss a day of school and teachers get a full day of pay on a Friday while most people would find it more convenient to vote on a weekend anyway.

Didn't work last time. Voting was held on a Saturday. Turnout was dismal, one of the worst turnouts ever.

Cienciano

BizzyC wrote: »

Would you be happy to have potential weirdos poking around your son's school?
Any other day of the year there would be questions asked of the creepy guy randomly walking on school property...

Yes, no problem with that.

Dodge

thomasm wrote: »

Not sure how inconveniencing potentially hundreds of thousands of people is most convenient on the whole when a simply solution exists. In terms of cost, how about a small percentage reduction in the amount of posters, pamphlets, adverts etc...Less rubbish to recycle and money and holidays saved by many

Except the state pays for the elections and doesn't pay for advertising

Its one day folks. Let the kids and teachers have a day off. Most parents are only too happy to have an excuse to take a day off too

Sure a few are upset but as already mentioned in this thread some people will whinge about anything.

This really isn't a big deal and has proved to be the best situation for the majority of people.

andekwarhola

thomasm wrote: »

Not sure how inconveniencing potentially hundreds of thousands of people is most convenient on the whole when a simply solution exists. In terms of cost, how about a small percentage reduction in the amount of posters, pamphlets, adverts etc...Less rubbish to recycle and money and holidays saved by many

I too arrange a day off or arrange childcare on polling days because I presume that schools present the cheapest (free) geographically convenient location for the nation/taxpayer as a whole.

I don't necessarily view every national/macro event purely in terms of my own needs.

Maybe we should just agree to differ?

Kat1170

Jebus, can you imagine the outrage on AH's if someone's Bingo, Badminton, Bric-a-brac sale or whatever that had been organised months in advance had to be cancelled because the local hall was to be used for an election.

People don't even want to mind their own kids never mind miss out on something really special ...

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

seamus wrote: »

Didn't work last time. Voting was held on a Saturday. Turnout was dismal, one of the worst turnouts ever.

Really? Didn't know that.

I would have thought students returning home, less people having work, less traffic on the roads etc. would have increased turnout.

AnonoBoy

murpho999 wrote: »

Simple, polling card would have a number and if it's used it's used. Would need to be electronically done though.

Now we're into a whole other minefield!

Fianna Failers were minting it for years storing the last batch of voting machines we got in!

oppenheimer1

Up until thirty years ago, some polling stations were in private houses.

Schools are used since they are existing public buildings that are in every locality and almost guaranteed to be fully accessible.

AnonoBoy

BizzyC wrote: »

Would you be happy to have potential weirdos poking around your son's school?

I am one of those weirdos.

Believe me guys - you don't want me around kids.

Not cause I'd do anything to them - just cause I'd annoy the sh*t out of them telling them about how "cartoons in my day were way better than the crap you f*ckers watch today. Paw Patrol - gimme a break! You ever hear of Animaniacs? NO? WHAT? You kids are f*cking idiots."

It's why I'm not welcome at family gatherings before eight in the evening these days..

Kiwi in IE

Why are elections not held on weekends? And why can you only vote when you physically present to your electorate? All polling booths should have a ballot box for out of electorate votes. The system makes it more difficult for professionals and college students who are more likely to be working/studying miles from home, also for the younger generations who are from rural areas but are living in temporary flatting situations in cities, and have not changed their address on the electoral role from their parents place.

kneemos

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why are elections not held on weekends? And why can you only vote when you physically present to your electorate? All polling booths should have a ballot box for out of electorate votes. The system makes it more difficult for professionals and college students who are more likely to be working/studying miles from home, also for the younger generations who are from rural areas but are living in temporary flatting situations in cities, and have not changed their address on the electoral role from their parents place.

They might not necessarily want students voting as they possibly don't vote for the mainstream parties.
Certainly would be more democratic to hold it over the weekend,both days preferably.

byhookorbycrook

gandalf wrote: »

Thankfully we use our local community centre these days. TBH as a country we should not be depriving our children of a days education to run an election. .

One day is hardly going to ruin their chances of getting into 3rd level. As a teacher, I'd prefer to see every child attend school without missing days for holidays or trips to 1D or just because the parent was too lazy to get up that morning. And no, my school doesn't close, never did.

Muahahaha

Anyone know how they do it in the UK or other countries?

Kiwi in IE

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know how they do it in the UK or other countries?

I only know about NZ. Voters can present at any polling booth in any electorate, does not have to be the one you live in. Elections are always held on a Saturday so as to be less likely to interfere with work/religious commitments. I can vote in NZ for the rest of my life, even if I don't ever live there again, so long as I have entered the country once in the past (I think it's 3 years from memory).

(Edit: Just to clarify I can vote in NZ elections from here for the rest of my life, via overseas vote. I don't have to physically be in the country to be entitled).