was/is Saorview a flop?

Andy From Sligo

Do you think saorview was/is a success? - is it being used to its full potential? - Do you think people went for Sky/Chorus/Virgin media for the channels that you can get on Saorview?

readytosnap

Saorview is sh ite
have it in the tv but have watched it once since it came out the usual Irish lets try to be different way of doing things.

TheDriver

Tend to watch everything on freesat instead. Itneeds more HD and include catchup etc. At moment its only handy to have to flick.
Got freesat+ box last week to replace old one, 252 euro and no fees and series link etc. Saorview still hasn't got good hardware to replace that

samarillo

Its a very big flop.

Andy From Sligo

As far as I know Saorview havent even got any Proper recordable Set-Top boxes out yet (apart from the ones where you put a memory stick or external usb hard drive into the usb socket) but no box with a built in Hard Drive have they like the Freeview HD+ boxes the UK have.

So you know these Goodmans Freeview HD+ boxes you can get from ASDA for around £80 sterling .. has anyone tried them on the Irish Saorview at all, wonder if they work and are totally compatible with the Irish saorview signal?

Johnfred

Humax freeview boxes work fine with Saorview. Records no problem.

PabloAndRoy

TheDriver wrote: »

Tend to watch everything on freesat instead. Itneeds more HD and include catchup etc. At moment its only handy to have to flick.
Got freesat+ box last week to replace old one, 252 euro and no fees and series link etc. Saorview still hasn't got good hardware to replace that

Personally, I think Saorview is OK, as long as it is combined with Freeview/Freesat.

I totally agree with the lack of HD. We combine it with Freesat and our channel running order is RTE1, RTE2, BBC1, BBC2, ITV, CH4, BBC3 (for the moment anyway), BBC4, (all HD) then... TV3, TG4, UTV Ireland, 3e, Channel 5, ITV2, etc., ...

So for us, we have all the (entertainment) HD channels at the top and almost all of our linear TV viewing happens in that space. TV3 almost never gets watched, not only because its awful, but mainly because it is only SD and slides down our list too far. Most of what is interesting on TV3 or UTV Ireland has already been in HD on ITV ... I genuinely believe that I have never even clicked 3e.

I see Saorview as an augmentation for Freesat rather than the other way around. If I didn't have it, I feel my TV wouldn't be complete as RTE 1 has been channel 1 on our family TV for as long as I can remember. It just wouldn't be "tea time" without the Angelus followed by the News...
YMMV

homer911

Saorview has announced a tie-in with Freetime so we should see high-quality recording boxes with 7-day EPG and replay/lookback service (via broadband) before too long


As someone who doesn't subscribe to pay TV, I'm quite happy with Saorview, would just like more HD content.

AlanG

I know lots of people using Saorview as part of a combo setup and they mostly like it. Personally it saves us around 60 euro per month. With RTE in HD it is good for the sports and I find BBC4 is my favourite channel as it usually has something interesting on. When I left UPC they didn't offer BBC4, not sure about now.
In my area I woudl say about 25-30% of houses have an external Saorview aerial.

ShakerMaker91

The Saorview signal around me is so bad that when there's a bad rain shower RTE 1 goes!

CramCycle

Saorview is grand, got rid of UPC tv once it came out, pick up a fair bit of freeview with no box, just using an old fashioned aerial.

Not sure what the negativity is for, it was meant to replace our old signal transmission, it did, reception is clearer and more consistent, job done.

kooga

I wouldn't say its a flop but certainly not achieving its potential.

If there was a bit of proper management and financial realism no reason why tv 3 and tg4 utv Ireland could not all be in HD. Plus add a freesat box to make it a serious platform alternative to pay TV

MillField

kooga wrote: »

I wouldn't say its a flop but certainly not achieving its potential.

If there was a bit of proper management and financial realism no reason why tv 3 and tg4 utv Ireland could not all be in HD. Plus add a freesat box to make it a serious platform alternative to pay TV

I agree. A lot of potential but still a bit half baked.

Andy From Sligo

homer911 wrote: »

Saorview has announced a tie-in with Freetime so we should see high-quality recording boxes with 7-day EPG and replay/lookback service (via broadband) before too long......

thats interesting, never heard about that

barry181091

It's not a flop. They wanted to free up the frequencies taken up by analogue, as it was wasting valuable bands.

Mint Sauce

Wouldn't call it a total flop, although do most of my viewing on Freesat and Netflix, with only the very Saorview channel watched.

Courious about this Saorview/Humax box, but only if its Freesat as opposed to Freeview. More so from a personal preferance. Currently to record Saorview services I need to use an external hard drive, with often the end of a programe missed, or ocassionally the start. Plus other boxes that are just FTA, or none Freesat branded, lack too many features.

Mint Sauce

Johnfred wrote: »

Humax freeview boxes work fine with Saorview. Records no problem.

Although a lot of money to spend if you just want to avail of a reliable record fuction, and you dont live in a boarder or east coast area and cant pick up Freeview/UK TV.

The Cush

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats interesting, never heard about that

Thread on it here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92585646#post92585646

Andy From Sligo

barry181091 wrote: »

It's not a flop. They wanted to free up the frequencies taken up by analogue, as it was wasting valuable bands.

Sorry for the question, not tech'ed up enough on it but what is valuable about the analogue bands?

Milly33

I wouldn't say it was a flop just really stupid.

They should have just left things as they were. In fairness there was no need to charge more for it, what was wrong with how the channels were. And someone mentioned money for RTE and that that's bull, they get paid enough. And most of the stations are badly done..

They always play movies at the wrong time, they put repeats on during reg hours and then put great movies and shows on late on weeknights when people go to bed early. Or at the weekends at around one in the morning.

There seasonal stuff is shocking.. Halloween at Christmas and Christmas at Halloween.. Muppets

Regarding did it make more people got to chorus and the likes, I dont think so..As you tend to have two sets of watchers really those who watch a lot of TV and plan their lives around it and those who dont...

Atlantic Dawn

It was never going to be a substitute for Sky or UPC, just a replacement for the old analogue system, in that respect it's a success. It's biggest failure is the brutal PVR and the need for a combined box which links in with Freesat.

bulbs2010

very poor channel line up,it would be good if they had the uk channels on it

Effects

Works fine for me. More channels than I had before it and in better quality.

The Cush

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not tech'ed up enough on it but what is valuable about the analogue bands?

Part of the UHF band (800 MHz) previously used for analogue TV was sold off in 2012 to the mobile network operators for about €285m and is now used for mobile 4G data. Another slice of TV spectrum is to be sold off in the next few years, the 700 MHz band for the same purpose.

These lower frequencies are valuable because it means less base stations are required for coverage compared to higher frequencies.

Andy From Sligo

The Cush wrote: »

Part of the UHF band (800 MHz) previously used for analogue TV was sold off in 2012 to the mobile network operators for about €285m and is now used for mobile 4G data. Another slice of TV spectrum is to be sold off in the next few years, the 700 MHz band for the same purpose.

These lower frequencies are valuable because it means less base stations are required for coverage compared to higher frequencies.

Ah I see right. Thanks for the explanation ....

Harry Palmr

saorview is doing exactly what it was meant to do at the most basic level, however its clearly a long way from what was envisaged about 12-15 years ago when the first DTT proposals were floated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_TV_Ireland

Until they get into the 21st century it'll be just what it is - domestic telly for those who like me watch most stuff on Freesat....

Andy From Sligo

Effects wrote: »

Works fine for me. More channels than I had before it and in better quality.

Quality is debatable (picture/sound signal quality - programming quality now there is a different topic!) - I was getting wonderful RTE1 & 2 on my VHF Aerial setup (on ch8 and 12 wasnt it?) - pictures were great, sound was great.

Maybe I am getting old (or my TV is , only 720pHD) but damned if i can tell difference in picture quality ... and I have conspirancy feeling about the HD audio.... they have only just upped the volume on HD channels, pretty sure of it (to give people the illusion its a clearer sound?) - if I switch from SD channel to HD channel the audio is louder! - yeah, so what! , aint no clearer to me (unless me hearing is going as well as my eyes , thats another possibility I suppose) ... im only 50 though... thats not time for me eyes and hearing packing up is it?

Harry Palmr

HD is a quantum leap better than the old 625 analogue picture, dunno how anyone could deny that!

That said by the same token the SD picture is worse!

Digifriendly

Effects wrote: »

Works fine for me. More channels than I had before it and in better quality.

Surely the small no. of channels is a problem. For a country the size of ROI surely there should be at least a few more channels and both TV3/TG4 should be HD by now. IIRC when DSO happened in UK all 4 main channels were in HD on Freeview. Only Channel Five (of main channels) has remained in SD on that platform.

The Cush

In countries like Holland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark etc. a similar number or even less FTA channels are carried on their DTT networks, pay DTT dominates.

Digifriendly

The Cush wrote: »

In countries like Holland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark etc. a similar number or even less FTA channels are carried on their DTT networks, pay DTT dominates.

I stand corrected. Thanks for this info. Still think that more channels should be in HD though.

Kristopherus

Johnfred wrote: »

Humax freeview boxes work fine with Saorview. Records no problem.

But does it do series link?

dublinman1990

The choice of channels on Saorview when without Freesat is very poor.

When the VOD come on board it may entice people with good broadband to use the service if they need it. Although if it's only an Irish service with broadband; the choice it's leading Irish consumers wanting to have it is not going to be very widespread by those who are not really into new tech or who have a lack of choice with suitable ISP's and poor broadband connectivity in their area.

Those customers, who won't intend on using it because of those issues, may stick with pay TV as a suitable alternative.

readytosnap

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Until they get into the 21st century it'll be just what it is .

knowing RTE that will be sometime in the 23rd century

Kristopherus

Kristopherus wrote: »

But does it do series link?

It did once upon a time until Saorview bafflingly nobbled it.

lertsnim

As a direct replacement for the analogue service that it replaced it is more than adequate. It is what I use to watch Irish tv as I don't have Sky or UPC

ShaneOC

Not a flop. But could easily do so much better. Major issue is lack of HD channels. When they decided on mpeg4 instead of mpeg2 they should have also decided / insisted that all channels should be HD. The current issue of carriage costs would never have been an issue.

If they do come up with a proper integrated saorview / freesat / catchup solution they will really begin to take off. A decent receiver with that as a base could also have pay DTT built in which could be used at some point in the future. No pay channels would join unless there was a critical mass of viewers available.

Sam Russell

How can Saorview be a flop?

It is free and it was meant to be free - so how can that be a flop? If no-one used it then it would not matter. If no one used the Phoenix Park or St Stephen's Green - would that matter?

The problem with it is that the transmission charges have been made unworkable by preventing 2RN to act in a commercial way. As a result, they have a charging system that is impossible and so we only have two HD services instead of five.

Also, the Oireachtas Channel is paid to appear on Sky, and is behind a paywall on other platforms, but on the national FTA platform it is only 'testing' while the politicians try and wriggle out of paying for it.

That shows where the flop is, and where the blame lies. Remember to vote on Feb 26th.

Andy From Sligo

ShaneOC wrote: »

.... If they do come up with a proper integrated saorview / freesat / catchup solution they will really begin to take off. A decent receiver with that as a base could also have pay DTT built in which could be used at some point in the future. No pay channels would join unless there was a critical mass of viewers available.

Not only that - if they do come up with a proper saorview / freesat box I hope they put an internal Hard drive in it for recording/time-shifting/live pause (or even better modern/up to date SSD drive . although they are very expensive, especially when you get into large capacity, at the moment) and internal wi-fi and ethernet LAN cable socket

The Cush

ShaneOC wrote: »

A decent receiver with that as a base could also have pay DTT built in which could be used at some point in the future. No pay channels would join unless there was a critical mass of viewers available.

Pay TV on DTT is a non-starter, more so now than it was in 2008 and not because of existing alternatives like Freesat, Sky or Virgin but the emerging IPTV services and Netflix type services and the declining spectrum for terrestrial broadcasting.

Even though terrestrial spectrum survived the demand from the mobile lobby at the recent WRC-15 for further co-allocation I believe we're at the beginning of the end of terrestrial broadcasting and in 20 years time terrestrial TV landscape will be very different.

Right now the DTT frequency plan is being revised for the clearance of the 700 MHz band, this will reduce our national allocation of DTT muxes from 8 down to 6 as currently required by the Broadcasting Act. Unfortunately due to restrictions to avoid co-channel interference to our neighbours not all of these muxes will be able to provide full national coverage, at most only 3 maybe 4 muxes will be able to provide close to national coverage. Not an economically viable proposition for a pay DTT operator to roll out a 3 mux pay DTT offering in a small market that's already saturated with pay and FTA services in a small country with a network that won't be able to provide full national coverage.

Harry Palmr

As its hard to imagine a future where all Irish telly would and could be IP based with a full service of free and pay channels and the DTT switched off so maybe an integrated UK/Ireland market would be the best for the long term.

Any takers?!

The Cush

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As its hard to imagine a future where all Irish telly would and could be IP based with a full service of free and pay channels and the DTT switched off so maybe an integrated UK/Ireland market would be the best for the long term.

Not necessarily all IP, another broadcast technology being tested is LTE-A+ which adds the capability to access spectrum from ‘high-tower, high-power’ terrestrial broadcast networks which use much bigger cells than those deployed in a typical mobile network and can co-exist with 2 way LTE "Low Power/Low Tower" mobile networks. Early days yet.

The future of UHF DTT broadcasting spectrum will be decided at WRC-23.

In Europe the Netherlands is a country that in recent years was discussing the future of DTT broadcasting in the UHF band, consideration was been given to switching off DTT when the licences expire next year. The country has over 93% cable coverage. The commercial muxes will now go to auction mid 2016. The 3 national public channels and regional public channels are carried on a single FTA mux.

Carawaystick

2rn breaking series link and pvr's because they can isn't helping it's success

Sam Russell

Carawaystick wrote: »

2rn breaking series link and pvr's because they can isn't helping it's success

They also have messed with the signal. They broadcast 38 blank channels plus two SSB channels - the only purpose is to render non-Saorview approved sets close to inoperable. I can think of no legitimate reason for them to do this.

noodler

CramCycle wrote: »

Saorview is grand, got rid of UPC tv once it came out, pick up a fair bit of freeview with no box, just using an old fashioned aerial.

Not sure what the negativity is for, it was meant to replace our old signal transmission, it did, reception is clearer and more consistent, job done.

I was about to say!

Its the same but better quality!

No idea what people were expecting to label it a flop.

Digifriendly

noodler wrote: »

I was about to say!

Its the same but better quality!

No idea what people were expecting to label it a flop.

No HD on 2 of main channels and we are in 2016 when virtually all new medium to large screen sets being sold are Ultra HD not even HD!

bk

Compared to Freeview in the UK Saorview is certainly a flop.

Freeview in the UK carries more then 30 channels, including 95% of all actual viewing! Meaning Freeview has become a real player in the UK market and has forced real competition with Sky and Virgin. In particular for multiroom and is the bsis on which BT's TV service is built on.

By comparison Saorview is a very sad and inadequate service. It has just 9 channels and includes non of the UK channels that Irish people want and most of the channels it does have aren't in HD. Add to that the terrible situation with lack of decent PVR and broken series link. Honestly you couldn't devise a worse service.

It's only saving grace is that in can work ok when combined with a Freesat box for the UK channels. But even then we lack an official box with a combined and usable Saorview/Freesat EPG.

Just 9 poor quality channels is ridiculous in the generation when we have Sky launching a revamped modern platform, Vodafone/Eir launching IPTV and overtop services like Netflix, etc. It simply isn't compeitive.

Saorview and I would say RTE desperately need to bring out a decent combined Freesat/Saorview PVR in order to remain relevant against all this new competition.

PabloAndRoy

I think we all (myself included) are wrongly equating our perceived quality of the service with whether the service is a "flop", which is what the question asked.

I suppose really "flop" should be about whether the uptake is successful rather than what we think about the service.

Here are some figures from a survey RedC ComReg commissioned in 2013 with a good demographic spread:




Interestingly a 2015 survey shows a solid rise (over 100% change) in Saorview usage.




The change i find odd is the decrease in Freesat. I cannot imagine why this should fall off.

So I guess the question is whether a 1 in 5 penetration is considered a success or a flop? I don't now if there were any targets at Saorview launch time.

Survey sources:
2013: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1346.pdf
2015: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg15123a.pdf

ftakeith

bk wrote: »

Compared to Freeview in the UK Saorview is certainly a flop.

Freeview in the UK carries more then 30 channels, including 95% of all actual viewing! Meaning Freeview has become a real player in the UK market and has forced real competition with Sky and Virgin. In particular for multiroom and is the bsis on which BT's TV service is built on.

By comparison Saorview is a very sad and inadequate service. It has just 9 channels and includes non of the UK channels that Irish people want and most of the channels it does have aren't in HD. Add to that the terrible situation with lack of decent PVR and broken series link. Honestly you couldn't devise a worse service.

It's only saving grace is that in can work ok when combined with a Freesat box for the UK channels. But even then we lack an official box with a combined and usable Saorview/Freesat EPG.

Just 9 poor quality channels is ridiculous in the generation when we have Sky launching a revamped modern platform, Vodafone/Eir launching IPTV and overtop services like Netflix, etc. It simply isn't compeitive.

Saorview and I would say RTE desperately need to bring out a decent combined Freesat/Saorview PVR in order to remain relevant against all this new competition.

Saorview is a hit in my view

Most people have saorview with Freesat

They even have it alongside Sky TV

Saorview Connect will hope have all the saorview channels with on demand content with less ads before content is played

Tenshot

We switched from UPC to Saorview + Freesat about three years ago, never looked back.

The quality of the Saorview HD channels is great; no complaints here. It's disappointing TV3 isn't HD yet (apparently is on Sky & UPC) but since we don't watch much TV3, it doesn't bother me personally.

We timeshift almost everything on Windows Media Center and being able to record/playback the digital stream instead of having to encode a grainy analogue signal is SO much better than what we had before.

It's a bit unfair to compare the Saorview channel lineup with Freesat -- they're aimed at completely different markets. It's hardly as if there are lots of native Irish channels struggling to find an outlet.

Could Saorview be improved? Of course! There's lots more potential. But what we have now is free, works well, and does the job for me. I can't believe the tone of this thread is so negative.

noodler

Digifriendly wrote: »

No HD on 2 of main channels and we are in 2016 when virtually all new medium to large screen sets being sold are Ultra HD not even HD!

I recognise SD can sometimes look worse on a HD screen than on an SD screen but overall it was a free upgrade (quality, particularly RTE 2HD obviously, and a few extra channels like +1s or the news) for a great many people.