206 HDI Engine Cutting Out

waffleman

I have a year 2001 1997CC HDI peugeot 206

I got some work done for the NCT and everything was goin fine - car has been runnin without problems for the last few years.

It failed on emissions so my mechanic gave me 5 litres of kerosene to put in after putting in 5 litres of diesel on the morning of the retest to clean out any contaminant left in the engine.

After this the car made it about a mile from my house and cut out. Now it will stay runnin when stationary but when you try to drive it it wont go more than a few 100 yards before cutting out again.

The car is being worked on over the weekend but with no change so far.

He has tried replacing sensors and cleaning out the exhaust but no joy.

Any ideas?

rex-x

If you are lucky you can remove the fpr on the back of the high pressure pump, clean it with carb cleaner then blow it out with an airline. If not then the kerosene has killed the pump, why in gods name he would suggest putting kerosene near a commonrail diesel I don't know but that's what has caused this issue now.

waffleman

Thank you for that - did a quick search on common rail deisel and kerosene and found this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77322089

If anyone uses Kerosene in a newer common rail diesels then they'll be fitting a new high pressure pump and a set of injectors at a cost of a couple a grand

This doesnt sound good.

waffleman

Did some searching using my car reg on a popular online parts retailer

Fuel Pump between 75 and 225 euro
Fuel Injection Pump between 370 and 470 euro
Fuel Injectors between 150 and 360 euro each x 4

It looks very likely my car has been written off by the kerosene

biko

Discuss it with your mechanic, it was they that suggested the kerosene.

waffleman

rex-x wrote: »

If you are lucky you can remove the fpr on the back of the high pressure pump, clean it with carb cleaner then blow it out with an airline. If not then the kerosene has killed the pump, why in gods name he would suggest putting kerosene near a commonrail diesel I don't know but that's what has caused this issue now.

I talked with my mechanic today. Said he did the above and the car is running slightly better. He also said the car was running on 50/50 diesel/kero for a few days before the problems started and that he runs his common rail diesel bmw on the same mix with no problems.

Basically he is sayin he has went through the car, checked and cleaned everything but since the car is runnin for a few miles with plenty of power that it is not a mechanical fault (not high pressure pump or injectors) and must be an electrical fault.

He is gettin a citroen electrician (knows about peugeot engines) to look at it this week.

mullingar

I'd say he is trying to fob you off.

Those common rail pumps increase the pressure as revs increase. If the pump is half knackered, it will allow the engine to start, but put any load on it, it will cut out due to poor fuel pressure.

A simple diagnostic check, even with a Chinese obd adapter with the Torque app will show a graph of the fuel pressure to the revs.

Oh, I hope your mechanic didn't replace sensors just for the sake of it, that's just poor professionalism and even poorer diagnostic

waffleman

The car drives for a few miles - plenty of power then cuts out

So Im thinkin is there a temperature cut out on the high pressure pump?

If the kerosene has already done damage to the pump it will now go for a few miles then cut out because now its getting too hot?

rex-x

If the requested fuel pressure gets to a point where it is 300 bar above the delivered then the engine will cut out as it thinks there is a leak. So if the engine wants 1200 bar and it only gets 900 because the pump is worn, then it will cut out. This is almost certainly your issue here, it should cut out when you give it the beans or under prolonged load. Also as diesel heats up it becomes more difficult to pump so the pressure will drop. Your mechanic sounds like a bit of a toolbox to be honest, kerosene even in tiny quantities will do serious damage to a commonrail.

The injectors are fairly hardy in these, a new pump and id say you will be motoring again.

Also just to correct mullingar a bit, the pressure doesn't increase with revs, there are many factors that determine what the pressure is at any given revs.

mullingar

My understanding of the fuel pump is that the pressure is directly related to the revs as it's a simple gear compression type, but once the injectors open for fuel the overall system pressure drops. The system measures the fuel rail pressure and adjusts the injector timings accordingly.
If the fuel pump can't pump enough fuel to match demand it will simply cut out.

rex-x

The pump is a 3 piston radial pump and is always pumping a huge flow through it, the regulator then controls how much is turned into pressure in the rail based on pedal position/ engine load/ engine temp etc. You can have 350 bar at 4k rpm or you can have 1350 bar at 2k rpm and the opposite is also true. The timing is not adjusted, the regulator adjusts to take up the loss in pressure and instantly replenish the rail. If the pump is worn and cant replenish then the timing will be advanced a bit to allow for longer opening times to get the same diesel in at lower pressure but once the gap in req vs actual hits 300 bar it cuts out.

mullingar

I'll go with that so

waffleman

Pump replaced - no joy - still the same issue.

I'm guessin the injectors are damaged.

At this stage I'm gona admit defeat and change the car.

It's 15 years old and the tax is too much anyway.

I like the look of the small engine Kias (Rio, Venga) at 200 euro tax per year.

rex-x

Is it a second hand pump? its rare enough to get a good one, also its very easy to test if one or all of the injectors is causing the problem with a leak off test. Don't give up, its a simple issue you are just dealing with morons.

waffleman

I told mechanic to keep car last week and bought another car.

Today he says he's got it sorted. The ECU was causing the issue. Says he's gona fix the car fixed up and try to sell it on since he's 300 euro down fixing it - this suits me also.

I lost 450 on NCT repairs + scrappage.

Bought a January 2008 1.2 petrol corsa that's just went through the NCT so hopefully it will last a few years.

To be honest I'm nearly glad. Tax is down from 710 to 280. Insurance down from 465 to 279.

Running well so far - attached some pics