2016 30Kw Journey

Fastpud

Just to give everyone an idea of range I thought I would share the first cross country trip in my 30kw Leaf. Did 554km today, Dublin to Galway and back.
Couple of base settings:
100KMH on motorway all the way (cruise Control)
Heating on all the time 22-24 degrees, heated seats and steering wheel also on.
Return in dark so lights on all the way
Average temp 0-1 degrees

1 Depart with 100% battery
2 To Athlone Topaz FC, 112 KMS, arrived with 16% battery (16-90% in 32mins)
3 Athlone to Galway 88KMS arrived with 31%
4 Lots of Local Driving
5 FC Galway Topaz 14%-91% (40mins approx)
6 Depart Galway with 87% battery
7 Galway to Athlone Topaz FC, 90KMS, arrived with 22% battery (22-77% in 27mins)
8 Athlone to AppleGreen M4 FC arrived 17%battery (17%-39% in 8 mins)
9 Home with 13% battery

Over all a big success, yes I stuck to 100KMS but that is what I normally drive as so no loss there. Given it was a cold day my guess there is quite a bit of extra range in there on warmer days.
For the journey the 4 FCs added less than 2 hours but saved about €80 in Petrol - in one day!
All FC were empty so no delays, but did see quite a few ICEd slow chargers in Galway though.
On the way back the non repaired TCU failed so need to get to the garage ASAP.

Rafal

Let me share my stats of today's return from Belfast to near Bray, about 220 km. Started about 3:10pm with 100% thanks to an on-street post while having lunch. Got a little lost which cost some time, maybe 10 mins. Drove 122-125 kph indicated (approx 115 real) most of the time, and occasionally 105 in three short zones north of the border and on M50 later on. Heating on at 19, with steering wheel and seats on, however using Eco mode and cruise control all the way. Arrived 100km later at Applegreen Castlebellingham with 25%. Charged to 60% in about 10-15 minutes. Continued 50km to Applegreen Lusk rather faster (128 indicated, so 120 real) with more serious accelerations and braking due to more stressy traffic, and arrived with 15%. Charged to 80% in about 25 minutes, and continued the final 70km to Bray using M50/M11 with more heating and without Eco mode. Arrived with 31% at 6:20pm.

In total, used 150% of usable capacity at this temperature (ca 25 kWh), 36 kWh in total, for about 220km in good conditions (no rain or standing water or heavy headwinds, but at 4C outside). Charged for 40 mins and drove for 2 hours 30 mins.

Overall, it could have been done with just one stop, but taking two stops made it more comfortable, increased reserves, shortened charging times, and reduced the impact of a potential risk of a broken charger or of a miscalculation.

Scottie99

Rafal wrote: »

Let me share my stats of today's return from Belfast to near Bray, about 220 km. Started about 3:10pm with 100% thanks to an on-street post while having lunch. Got a little lost which cost some time, maybe 10 mins. Drove 122-125 kph indicated (approx 115 real) most of the time, and occasionally 105 in three short zones north of the border and on M50 later on. Heating on at 19, with steering wheel and seats on, however using Eco mode and cruise control all the way. Arrived 100km later at Applegreen Castlebellingham with 25%. Charged to 60% in about 10-15 minutes. Continued 50km to Applegreen Lusk rather faster (128 indicated, so 120 real) with more serious accelerations and braking due to more stressy traffic, and arrived with 15%. Charged to 80% in about 25 minutes, and continued the final 70km to Bray using M50/M11 with more heating and without Eco mode. Arrived with 31% at 6:20pm.

In total, used 150% of usable capacity at this temperature (ca 25 kWh), 36 kWh in total, for about 220km in good conditions (no rain or standing water or heavy headwinds, but at 4C outside). Charged for 40 mins and drove for 2 hours 30 mins.

Overall, it could have been done with just one stop, but taking two stops made it more comfortable, increased reserves, shortened charging times, and reduced the impact of a potential risk of a broken charger or of a miscalculation.

Castlebellingham South - I reported that last Wednesday because the handle was broken( managed to get it working). Was it fixed?

Rafal

Scottie99 wrote: »

Castlebellingham South - I reported that last Wednesday because the handle was broken( managed to get it working). Was it fixed?

Assuming we are talking Chademo, which I used, it was definitely working, but it had a yellow sleeve, imprinted "Do not stretch the cable". Thanks for reporting it!

drdidlittle

How much do the recharge cost

Rafal

drdidlittle wrote: »

How much do the recharge cost

It is currently free, and has been this way since the early days. Charging money for recharging will be introduced at some point, most likely this year. ESB have already tried to introduce it, but their proposal was stopped by the Commission for Energy Regulation, mainly as a result of a backlash caused by what was thought to be an unfair system and one designed to circumvent the regulations prohibiting ESB from directly selling electricity to consumers.

When fees are introduced it is likely they will make at-home charging the staple approach even for those who currently prefer the free on-street electricity, assuming you can charge at home, or at work. This is because the current at-home rates work out at about 20-35% of the current cost of diesel for the same mileage, but this excludes all other cost savings (like low car taxes and cheap maintenance) and additional overheads (new EVs are more expensive to buy than ICE).

Have a good browse of this forum and on speakev.com if you are thinking of the economic reasons to own an EV.

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

2 To Athlone Topaz FC, 112 KMS, arrived with 16% battery (16-90% in 32 mins

That's an impressive charge time. 16-90% in 32 mins the 24 Kwh would have taken probably 50 mins.

So that's a petty good difference, and you get more range !

Fastpud

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an impressive charge time. 16-90% in 32 mins the 24 Kwh would have taken probably 50 mins.

So that's a petty good difference, and you get more range !

Yea was very impressed, essentially Dublin - Galway with 32 minutes for a charge and arrived with 31% still available. Given that I would of stopped anyway with the kids for at least 30 minutes en-route, it was no slower.

554Kms in one day with little stress or hassle was better than I expected. I know that this could of been much worse if the chargers had been down, ( there is only a singe fast charger in Galway open on Sunday!) or in use but for the few times I would do this amount of KM in a single day I can live with that risk.

Really loved the car, very conferable and quiet . The Sat Nav is very responsive and the heated seats are such a luxury on a cold day

An 80% charge in the 30 Kw is a bit more than 100% charged in the 24 Kwh. Should be good for about 78-80 miles. OF course that's to empty and you'll usually be charging b twenty %.

ei9go

Fastpud wrote: »

For the journey the 4 FCs added less than 2 hours but saved about €80 in Petrol - in one day!
ASAP.

How does 554km cost 80 euro?

Fastpud

ei9go wrote: »

How does 554km cost 80 euro?

My old car was a gas guzzler that's what it cost me doing the same run - one of the reasons I wanted to change

peposhi

ei9go wrote: »

How does 554km cost 80 euro?

If your car does 11.5 litres per 100kms and the price for petrol was €1.25, as an example.

ei9go

peposhi wrote: »

If your car does 11.5 litres per 100kms and the price for petrol was €1.25, as an example.

Exactly my point, thanks for doing the maths.

Most normal 1.4 Petrol or smaller diesels would be between 5 and 6.5L per 100km.

serfboard

ei9go wrote: »

Exactly my point, thanks for doing the maths.

Most normal 1.4 Petrol or smaller diesels would be between 5 and 6.5L per 100km.

Yep, taking the price per litre of diesel to be 1.04 (as it is roughly now), @5.5l/100km the amount saved woud be closer to €30.

Still, though that's:

1. €30 extra in your pocket - not to be sneezed at (even if the cost of the Leaf does wipe some of that out).

2. Less money given to the Saudis - and who wouldn't want to celebrate that.

3. Journey done with No Emissions - nothing at all, and certainly not "40 times above what is allowed".

He didn't say a 5.5 L/100 km Diesel though, he said a Gas guzzling Petrol.

ei9go

I suppose you have to justify to yourself taking two hours longer to do a journey.

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

He didn't say a 5.5 L/100 km Diesel though, he said a Gas guzzling Petrol.

Ah yeah, fair point. The calculation I made is for most cars on the road, and indeed doesn't apply to the OP's gas guzzler.

ei9go wrote: »

I suppose you have to justify to yourself taking two hours longer to do a journey.

That's the great trade-off isn't it for EV owners? And one which a lot of them are prepared to make, but the rest of us aren't.

Although range is getting better all the time, for me the long-distance part of EVs has not been resolved satisfactorily yet.

For most normal driving though, involving shortish commutes and runabouts, followed by long stagnant periods in which the car could be charged, it's a no-brainer.

Rafal

More stats for those who are still interested in the real-world range of the 30 kWh Leaf. As of today, our barely week-old Leaf has done its first 1600 km, still superbly comfortable and a joy to drive. Today I have seen both the worst and the best performance so far, in good conditions (no rain or headwind, but a bit cold at 4C), with heating on at 19C, seat and steering wheel on.

• Used 16% over 27km from Ferbane-Kilbeggan, average speed of 54kph, making it 1.7 km/1% of battery capacity. This would mean a range of 170 km for such local, city, or nearby village driving mix.
• 45% over 46km, Kilbeggan-Applegreen Enfield, average speed of 120kph, making 1.0 km/1%, or range of just 100 km at max motorway speed between two motorway service stations, and including a total climb of about 90m of elevation difference, at speed. This is as bad a result as driving in rain/standing water at lower speeds that I encountered on day 1 of Leaf ownership last week.
• 42% over 69km, Enfield-Dublin-Bray, mixing motorway with city some slow city traffic, average 46kph, 1.6 km/1%, making it a 160 km range car.

For reference, charging from 7kW posts is really fast—glad I have the 6.6 kW on-board charger and 32A at home! We used it twice today, once while having lunch home (after the journey from Offaly) and then again while visiting a shop and having dinner in town. 10-70% takes 1 hour 40 minutes, enabling us to make long journeys without having to worry about charging too much. The 3kW charger would have meant waiting 3.5 hours for this charge, no way I could incorporate that twice into a busy day without having to detour to a rapid. Amazingly, the last 2% (98-100) can take 45 minutes, so really not worth it.

I don't know how others like to think, but for me having those ratios (multipliers) of 1-1.1 for "very fast", 1.3 for "typical motorway" and 1.6 for "city" in my head makes it very easy to figure out what is my real range: I just multiply the percentage left (%SOC) by this figure and voilá the real range, taking into account how I plan to drive. I wish the guessometer could show such 3 estimates, or even better, that it took into account the journey just planned in the sat nav.

**For your convenience, I reposted this from my SpeakEV thread: https://speakev.com/threads/real-world-30-kwh-leaf-range-statistics.14901/

thierry14

112km and only 16% battery left

That's awful

That's less than 135km for a 100% charge

That can't be right?

ted1

As some one who has been giving serious thought to getting an leaf this numbers and charge time really don't appeal to me. I think a PHEV makes way more sense.,

2 hours extra in to a 500km journey providing the charging point is free. As for the 89 euro saving I imagine that you spent money while passing time during the charge. And you must have a really bad. MOG in the old car if it uses 12 l/100km on a motorway

thierry14

ted1 wrote: »

As some one who has been giving serious thought to getting an leaf this numbers and charge time really don't appeal to me. I think a PHEV makes way more sense.,

I am of the same opinion.

I cant understand how VW and other car giants can't build a hybrid diesel that will do 60-80km on electric power and then a small 1.2 tdi that does 3.5/100km kicks in.

That's what people want imo

nokia69

thierry14 wrote: »

I am of the same opinion.

I cant understand how VW and other car giants can't build a hybrid diesel that will do 60-80km on electric power and then a small 1.2 tdi that does 3.5/100km kicks in.

That's what people want imo

That car is on the way, in a few years most BMWs will be plug in hybrid and since the Diesel scandal VW will have to do the same

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

I am of the same opinion.

I cant understand how VW and other car giants can't build a hybrid diesel that will do 60-80km on electric power and then a small 1.2 tdi that does 3.5/100km kicks in.

That's what people want imo

Believe me, once the EVs get upto 300k mark per charge and you have driven one for a while the last thing you'd want is a 1.2 TDI in your car to add noise weight and complexity.

Rafal

thierry14 wrote: »

I am of the same opinion.

I cant understand how VW and other car giants can't build a hybrid diesel that will do 60-80km on electric power and then a small 1.2 tdi that does 3.5/100km kicks in.

That's what people want imo

I do not know what your "people" want, but I know that I do not want that. I want kids and their kids to live in cities without unhealthy diesel pollution, causing lung diseases and cancer. So anything to get rid of diesel, and petrol in the mid-term, is what my "people" want.

In the meantime, my Leaf is by far the most comfortable and enjoyable car I have ever had. If it gets better with range increase on the 2-year horizon, it will appeal to more buyers.

Rafal

ted1 wrote: »

As some one who has been giving serious thought to getting an leaf this numbers and charge time really don't appeal to me. I think a PHEV makes way more sense.,

2 hours extra in to a 500km journey providing the charging point is free. As for the 89 euro saving I imagine that you spent money while passing time during the charge. And you must have a really bad. MOG in the old car if it uses 12 l/100km on a motorway

Ted1, it sounds like you have been doing the right thinking. If 500km journey is what you do regularly, then today's BEVs are not for you. Maybe even those coming in the next 1-2 years, when the range and charging times double.

For me, the 500 km weekend journey to and from Belfast, or the 400 km to Offaly over the last two days, these are exceptions. Most of my trips are 20-30km returns in a day, perhaps once a week an 80-120km. I can do all of those without the need to recharge en-route.

While I find it nice that while I am having a dinner in town my car can recharge for free, this is not the reason for buying a BEV. Economy is not on BEV side because they are still much too expensive to buy.

You buy one because it is a better, nicer car.

It is ready and fuelled in the morning, without visiting those awful pumps. It is warm and dry and supremely comfortable. It is quiet. It is smooth like Kerrygold, without angry vibrations, yet able to overtake almost anyone from a full stop, because of its pretty awesome torque and power, without even as much as a judder. It smells good and it is clean, no oils or spark plugs or other gunk to replace, either. It looks and feels futuristic, and it is well equipped with gadgets that appeal to me.

I cherish planning my longer journeys with 20-30 min stops for a cake or coffee while it recharges, because it makes my trip feel more special, and I enjoy this special time with my husband and friends. I am free from smelly petrol or dirty diesel, and that feels soooo good, especially knowing that in some small way I am helping Irish kids stay healthier.

But I am sad that it is not yet ready for all of us. Maybe it will be good for you, Ted, one day, too, but please don't make yourself buy one just yet. You need to be ready for it only when it is ready for you.

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

I am of the same opinion.

I cant understand how VW and other car giants can't build a hybrid diesel that will do 60-80km on electric power and then a small 1.2 tdi that does 3.5/100km kicks in.

That's what people want imo

Hybrid diesels don't work good, they run too cold a lot of the time needing to run the engine far more along with electric auxiliary heating. A prius is vastly more efficient.

You don't need a high polluting diesel with in a hybrid set up, defeats the purpose.

I could do 110-115Kms in the 24 Kwh leaf at 105 Kph with a bit to spare but you'd need to be close to a charge point, no reason the 30 Kwh can't do 140kms under the same conditions to 160-170 Kms in Summer.

Driving 105 Kph V 120 doesn't make a whole lot of difference and if very long trips are a regular occurrence then the Gen II Electrics are really only 1 year 11 months away.

300 Km range.

BoatMad

Having had a 30 kw for a few days , my observations are

There is no doubt that motorways and speed kill the range , its a square law after all. ( speed/energy)

in response to some, there will never be a 1.2tdi, not if it has to propel a car, with increasing emissions control , diesels are actually increasing in size ( you'll see a lot of 1.4 tdi are now 1.6 in 2016 )

The major issue, is that right now people are prepared to trade time charging because its free. if we get charges rates anywhere near the previous proposals, now, you'll be waiting ages AND paying as much as that efficient ICE, thats refuels in minutes.

Thats going to kill EVs , dead as a dodo.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

if we get charges rates anywhere near the previous proposals, now, you'll be waiting ages AND paying as much as that efficient ICE, thats refuels in minutes.

Thats going to kill EVs , dead as a dodo.

How do you figure that, if most charging is done at home ?

You're still thinking everyone wants to drive 300-340 kms daily and that that kind of charging can't be done at home where in fact at 60 kwh can be charged over about 10 hrs at 6.6 Kw. easily enough.

Most people don't drive this distance per day, how do you think 90 Kwh Model S owners survive ? they charge over several days and the car is ready for that 450 km trip and use the super charger for the rest.

peposhi

BoatMad wrote: »

Having had a 30 kw for a few days , my observations are

There is no doubt that motorways and speed kill the range , its a square law after all. ( speed/energy)

in response to some, there will never be a 1.2tdi, not if it has to propel a car, with increasing emissions control , diesels are actually increasing in size ( you'll see a lot of 1.4 tdi are now 1.6 in 2016 )

The major issue, is that right now people are prepared to trade time charging because its free. if we get charges rates anywhere near the previous proposals, now, you'll be waiting ages AND paying as much as that efficient ICE, thats refuels in minutes.

Thats going to kill EVs , dead as a dodo.

BoatMad, are you still going for an EV or the test drive changed your mind?

ted1

Rafal wrote: »

Ted1, it sounds like you have been doing the right thinking. If 500km journey is what you do regularly, then today's BEVs are not for you. Maybe even those coming in the next 1-2 years, when the range and charging times double.

For me, the 500 km weekend journey to and from Belfast, or the 400 km to Offaly over the last two days, these are exceptions. Most of my trips are 20-30km returns in a day, perhaps once a week an 80-120km. I can do all of those without the need to recharge en-route.

While I find it nice that while I am having a dinner in town my car can recharge for free, this is not the reason for buying a BEV. Economy is not on BEV side because they are still much too expensive to buy.

You buy one because it is a better, nicer car.

It is ready and fuelled in the morning, without visiting those awful pumps. It is warm and dry and supremely comfortable. It is quiet. It is smooth like Kerrygold, without angry vibrations, yet able to overtake almost anyone from a full stop, because of its pretty awesome torque and power, without even as much as a judder. It smells good and it is clean, no oils or spark plugs or other gunk to replace, either. It looks and feels futuristic, and it is well equipped with gadgets that appeal to me.

I cherish planning my longer journeys with 20-30 min stops for a cake or coffee while it recharges, because it makes my trip feel more special, and I enjoy this special time with my husband and friends. I am free from smelly petrol or dirty diesel, and that feels soooo good, especially knowing that in some small way I am helping Irish kids stay healthier.

But I am sad that it is not yet ready for all of us. Maybe it will be good for you, Ted, one day, too, but please don't make yourself buy one just yet. You need to be ready for it only when it is ready for you.

A 30kw charge with a range of 150km means you get 5km per kW. Which say 100km= 20kwh elec=8.8kg of C02

The equivalent of an a2 car is 100g per km = 10kg of C02.

So really the saving is only 1.2kg of CO2 per 100km.


So the emissions aren't to much different , so the big scary pumps aren't to bad.