Is there any tolerance or leeway for speed vans

AppleKidd

I was driving today, to be honest I did not see the van till the last limit minute and I looked at my speedo and the needle was bang on 50. I was like okay, push the brake and lower the speed but at this point I was about 15 - 20 metres away from the van. I am driving a 96 Micra. So I decided to download two speedometer apps on my phone to cross reference both. When I am at 50 the apps were between 45-47. I just was wondering is there any allowance for speedometers. As I know every single car is out by a couple of KMs.

If I did get caught how long would it take to receive notice.

Thanks,

Headshot

I heard 10% lee way from a Garda traffic corp

AppleKidd

Headshot wrote: »

I heard 10% lee way from a Garda traffic corp

Should be okay so.

Headshot

AppleKidd wrote: »

Should be okay so.

Yap I was doing 105-106km in a 100km speed limit and didnt see the Speed vans till the last minute but i was grand because of the lee way

SimonLynch

Speedos on cars are always out a bit and you always think you're going faster than you are. I've been told the cameras aren't even on sometimes. I do about 50k a year and I thought I'd been got about six times last year, didn't get one ticket.

What infuriates me is speed vans on the outskirts of towns/villages in sneaky spots rather than incoming roads, Bunclody being the worst.

SimonLynch

Speedos on cars are always out a bit and you always think you're going faster than you are. I've been told the cameras aren't even on sometimes. I do about 50k a year and I thought I'd been got about six times last year, didn't get one ticket.

What infuriates me is speed vans on the outskirts of towns/villages in sneaky spots rather than incoming roads, Bunclody being the worst.

AppleKidd

SimonLynch wrote: »

Speedos on cars are always out a bit and you always think you're going faster than you are. I've been told the cameras aren't even on sometimes. I do about 50k a year and I thought I'd been got about six times last year, didn't get one ticket.

What infuriates me is speed vans on the outskirts of towns/villages in sneaky spots rather than incoming roads, Bunclody being the worst.

Funny thing is 5 times out of 10 the van is there. But having one of those days you forget. I was like crap. But I should be okay, right.

Mervyn Skidmore

A friend of mine was in Court in Galway for speeding and he said there was another guy who was done for doing 51 in a 50 zone. It was a gosafe van that got him. I have a hard time believing it but he's adamant.

AppleKidd

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

A friend of mine was in Court in Galway for speeding and he said there was another guy who was done for doing 51 in a 50 zone. It was a gosafe van that got him. I have a hard time believing it but he's adamant.

Don't tell me that, you will have my nerves all over the place.

colm_mcm

Your speedo probably overreads, so there might be a margin there

SeamusG97

GPS gives an accurate reading - Speedo generally reads a few km/h higher than the actual speed in my experience so if your speedo read 50 then you should be ok.

Mervyn Skidmore

AppleKidd wrote: »

Don't tell me that, you will have my nerves all over the place.

Don't stress the small stuff.

Del2005

SeamusG97 wrote: »

GPS gives an accurate reading - Speedo generally reads a few km higher than the actual speed in my experience so if your speedo read 50 then you should be ok.

Only on a flat road, going up or down hill will give different readings from GPS.

NomadicGray

If the speedo read 50 in a 50 zone I wouldnt even be slowing down.

Steve

Del2005 wrote: »

Only on a flat road, going up or down hill will give different readings from GPS.

What makes you think that?

GPS is 3d so it is aware of altitude.

SimonLynch

There's one in Blessington that's well positioned, just beyond the Topaz catching drivers coming from the south, no problem with it, if you actually manage to speed down that bit you deserve the points. Apart from that they seem to be in spots where there're no pedestrians/merging roads and no real point for them being there. The nastiest is on the Naas Road opposite the Red Cow Hotel catching drivers coming off the roundabouty thing southbound, if you aren't watching all the signs there's no way you'd know you're in a 50 zone.

AppleKidd

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Don't stress the small stuff.

So from reading all the replies I should be fine, by the sound of it. Cause at the end of the day the speedo is was reading 30mph(96 Mirca) which is 50 kph.

Skatedude

Steve wrote: »

What makes you think that?

GPS is 3d so it is aware of altitude.

yes, but distance covered is slightly different, ie you travel 1000m on the road surface but you only cover 990 because you were going up or downhill, but it would have to quite steep to make much difference. think of it as driving up the long side of a right angles triangle.

slimjimmc

AppleKidd wrote: »

So from reading all the replies I should be fine, by the sound of it. Cause at the end of the day the speedo is was reading 30mph(96 Mirca) which is 50 kph.

30mph is actually 48.3 km/h, so even better

AFAIK any margin with the speed camera is almost negligible and the perceived margin is mainly due to the tolerance of your speedometer. This is because regulations permit speedometers to overread by up to 10%+4km/h, so depending on the accuracy of your speedometer if the needle was showing 50km/h your true speed could be anywhere between 42-50km/h.

AppleKidd

slimjimmc wrote: »

30mph is actually 48.3 km/h, so even better

AFAIK any margin with the speed camera is almost negligible and the perceived margin is mainly due to the tolerance of your speedometer. This is because regulations permit speedometers to overread by up to 10%+4km/h, so depending on the accuracy of your speedometer if the needle was showing 50km/h your true speed could be anywhere between 42-50km/h.

Thanks for the answer , I am only new to driving cant afford penalty points as car insurance is already up the wall . I am just over thinking it.

Del2005

Steve wrote: »

What makes you think that?

GPS is 3d so it is aware of altitude.

Sticking on cruise control and comparing the speedo to GPS, there's always a lag between the GPS and the speedo. Once when I had a phone and stand alone GPS I had 3 different speeds showing while using cruise control. The US has built in inaccuracy to GPS, whenever Galileo comes online then you can rely on the speed displayed till then I'll stick to the speedo and cruise control when I want to obay a speed limit.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I have a very good trend who works for the speed van crowd he says they allow 9km for all speed zones so when you consider that most speedos read over by on average 5 to 10% you can be 10-12kmph over (on your speedo) and still be relatively safe

Sam Russell

Del2005 wrote: »

The US has built in inaccuracy to GPS, whenever Galileo comes online then you can rely on the speed displayed till then I'll stick to the speedo and cruise control when I want to obey a speed limit.

The US turned off the wobble a number of years ago.

Agent_47

A Micra speeding, whatever next, you should be fine OP, just don't slow down on account of it!

Del2005

Sam Russell wrote: »

The US turned off the wobble a number of years ago.

They greatly increased the accuracy but it still has built in inaccuracy. Standing still you can get a difference of 4m, which is enough to throw the speed reading on a phone or GPS unit in a fast moving vehicle.


http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

They greatly increased the accuracy but it still has built in inaccuracy. Standing still you can get a difference of 4m, which is enough to throw the speed reading on a phone or GPS unit in a fast moving vehicle.


http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

Speaking on the iPhone as its the hardware I develop on, provided the app is sampling at a decent rate and averaging / smoothing (Most do or you'll get crazy numbers) the GPS is going to be fairly bang on. For consumer grade electronics, you're not going to get much better and against a speed van, the tolerance is fine.

EU directives gives about 5 to 15% leeway to over-read i.e. Your shown speed is higher than actual, the reverse is not allowed. But funnily enough, any US reg'd car I've ever been in has always been exactly right. It would appear they don't have similar legislation i.e. The speedo has to be accurate.

Garda using a handheld laser is at their discretion. Remember, they need zero proof. Its their word against yours. This was challenged but I've never seen anything come of it. Secondly, their is no legislation meaning the equipment has to be calibrated or in full working order. Again, completely banana's but true. In my head, I'd call it at 10% of the limit as why bother pulling someone for 51km/h when you could wait 5 mins and likely pull someone for 70km/h+?

For the GoSafe vans, your 'danger zone' is roughly 2.5 times the width of the road away from the rear doors (Rule of thumb: Give or take 25m on average) Tolerance, used be about 6km/h, I've been told its around 3km/h. But to put that another way, if you are caught doing 53km/h in a 50km/h zone, your speedo would have been showing much closer to 60km/h anyway.

deathtocaptcha

I drove past a GoSafe van on the Naas Roas yesterday doing at most about 105km/hr according to Sat Nav (not speedo)...

I was moving from overtaking lane to middle lane with traffic in left most lane and by the time I seen the van it would have been wreckless for me to brake (given I'd just overtaken a car that was now behind me) so i just eased off and would have gone past it between 100-105km/hr according to satnav...

I know my satnav is accurate so i'm hoping there's some degree of leeway... if the leeway is the actual limit + 10% (as others have said), I'll be fine... either way i'm in this ****ty period of waiting now for a few weeks not knowing if there's a fine / points arriving or not...

Steve

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

I drove past a GoSafe van on the Naas Roas yesterday doing at most about 105km/hr according to Sat Nav (not speedo)...

I was moving from overtaking lane to middle lane with traffic in left most lane and by the time I seen the van it would have been wreckless for me to brake (given I'd just overtaken a car that was now behind me) so i just eased off and would have gone past it between 100-105km/hr according to satnav...

I know my satnav is accurate so i'm hoping there's some degree of leeway... if the leeway is the actual limit + 10% (as others have said), I'll be fine... either way i'm in this ****ty period of waiting now for a few weeks not knowing if there's a fine / points arriving or not...

Nothing you can do unfortunately except wait, I feel your pain having been there.

Got done for 112 in 100 by the fkrs.

deathtocaptcha

Steve wrote: »

Nothing you can do unfortunately except wait, I feel your pain having been there.

Got done for 112 in 100 by the fkrs.

Actually, having reviewed the detail, I reckon I'm ok. I have a dashcam and did some detective work by estimating speed using distance over time...

I worked out it took me 4 seconds 57ms to travel 127.5m during what i know would have been the danger zone / when I was at my fastest...

Even rounding down to 4.5 seconds and 127m, that comes out at 101.6km/hr (let's say 102) so I reckon I'm safe as that's what I feel would be worst case scenario...



for anyone else curious, I'll post back here with more detail if i do end up with anything in the post...

Falcon L

Assuming the van was at the point of the 2 red lines, you're well outside the danger zone with your measure. By my calculations, the danger zone is much closer than most people think. The detection angle is 22 degrees, that doesn't allow the detection zone to stretch too far from the back of the van.

deathtocaptcha

Falcon L wrote: »

Assuming the van was at the point of the 2 red lines, you're well outside the danger zone with your measure. By my calculations, the danger zone is much closer than most people think. The detection angle is 22 degrees, that doesn't allow the detection zone to stretch too far from the back of the van.

That's what i'm hoping for too... but i was just trying to calculate worst case scenario..

The van was absolutely in the spot where the red arrows point... verified by position of streetlamps and the fact it wasn't parked on the hard shoulder (slightly in off the road)...

I did ease off completely as soon as I saw it (red car to my left blocked my view so I only noticed it once I'd edge past the red car) which would have brought my average speed well below 100km/hr by the time I was passing it, so i'm hoping as you say the camera can only capture traffic that's a couple of white lines closer to it than where I've marked on the map...

ironclaw

@deathtocaptcha, if there was a car to your left the entire time, you are fine. You can't have two vehicles in the same picture. Counter intuitive but in those situations, stay neck and neck with the car beside you or slightly behind.

deathtocaptcha

ironclaw wrote: »

@deathtocaptcha, if there was a car to your left the entire time, you are fine. You can't have two vehicles in the same picture. Counter intuitive but in those situations, stay neck and neck with the car beside you or slightly behind.

unfortunately (and unusually) there was a string of cars to my left doing about 80km/hr so by the time i reached the van (doing what I thought was between 100-105 according to satnav) there was a clear line of sight between myself and the van...

but looking at the video and doing the maths has reassured me that it's more likely my actual speed (and what the camera would have registered) was 100 on the button or slightly less in which case i should be fine (especially if there's 2-3km leeway).

for anyone curious, van was on the Naas Road eastbound just after exit 8 and exactly 3km beyond the point where the speed drops from 120 to 100...

the turn off they were parked on also has two signposts in front of it along with a lamp post and several signs beyond it so as you approach, it doesn't stand out as it's party covered by signposts in front of it and blends in to the signs behind it... here's a streetview pic and a dashcam pic...



shooting fish in barrel if you ask me, especially if the left lane is occupied (merging lane just finishes before point in pic so there's a high chance traffic will be in left lane) as it restricts your view until the last minute...

but anyway, moral of the story is don't speed...

allym

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

unfortunately (and unusually) there was a string of cars to my left doing about 80km/hr so by the time i reached the van (doing what I thought was between 100-105 according to satnav) there was a clear line of sight between myself and the van...

but looking at the video and doing the maths has reassured me that it's more likely my actual speed (and what the camera would have registered) was 100 on the button or slightly less in which case i should be fine (especially if there's 2-3km leeway).

for anyone curious, van was on the Naas Road eastbound just after exit 8 and exactly 3km beyond the point where the speed drops from 120 to 100...

the turn off they were parked on also has two signposts in front of it along with a lamp post and several signs beyond it so as you approach, it doesn't stand out as it's party covered by signposts in front of it and blends in to the signs behind it... here's a streetview pic and a dashcam pic...



shooting fish in barrel if you ask me, especially if the left lane is occupied (merging lane just finishes before point in pic so there's a high chance traffic will be in left lane) as it restricts your view until the last minute...

but anyway, moral of the story is don't speed...

They've been in that spot fairly regularly over the last few weeks. Twice last week and again today around 5pm. So I'm presuming they are catching people, particularly like you said, after merging and when the speed limit drops.

Ive gone past about 10 in the last year breaking the limit by a minimum of 10 kmh to about 30 kmh over the limit on my speedo and have never gotten a ticket.

I gps tested the speedo and its out by 7. I am of the opinion most of them arent operational, if they were you would have half the drivers off the road. As was said most of them park up in such a manner its shooting fish.
I think they are there to act more as a visual deterrent.

ironclaw

Draven Spoiled Thermostat wrote: »

I think they are there to act more as a visual deterrent.

I can somewhat correlate this. From observing one, it would appear they target single cars, not groups of traffic. Given they can't prosecute for more than one car in the frame, this makes sense. Furthermore, you're far more likely to have a car speeding on their own (With no prior warning from the car in front) than in a pack.