Legal opinion please

DK man

Hi folks- I had an issue with a person today - nothing major or at least I think it was not a hanging offence. This person phoned my employer and said to my boss that they wanted to talk to me about an incident -

The 'incident! Happened after I had finished work and had nothing to do with my work. My boss phoned me and told me in a very concerned voice about this person who was seeking to talk to me about an incident....this individual was acting in her professional capacity.


I have no problem with anyone ringing my place of employment if they wish to contact me - but it was the manner and way it was done - I'm not sure what she told my employer but she was duly concerned and called me after work and asked me to contact her.

I feel that this call was done in a spiteful way in the hope that it would get me into trouble with my employer. I did phone her back but there was no answer and I left a message.

Is there any legal issues about the way this individual conducted herself. I'm not going to run off to a solicitor but I'm very annoyed and if she does bother to ring me back I'd like to be able to protect myself or defend myself

Many thanks

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Pat Mustard

If what you say is fully correct, I would be inclined to ask the employer how the issue relates to work and the reason that she is phoning you about it.

That's if the issue has nothing to do with work, as you say.

It seems as though your employer thinks that it does, though.

Why do you think that might be?

DK man

The person is not a Garda

It's got nothing t do with my work -

Thanks

Incident - I drove into a teachers car park to collect my child who was in the shelter beside the car park. I literally drove in very slowly - reversed - she jumped in and was about to drive off when I was approached by a person who I don't know principal / vp / teacher who was irate - shouting at me in angry tones - telling me that I wasn't allowed to drive in to this car park - I apologised and said I won't do it again- she kept repeating herself - I drove off. My child goes to a school nearby and they are brought here by an after school who also pick up from this school.



Approx 1 hour later I get the call

colly10

How did she get your work number? This incident doesn't sound like an incedent at all and I wouldn't worry about your employer cause you did nothing wrong.
She made herself very clear in the car park, there was no need to phone your work to repeat it and if it happens again it could possibly be considered harassment

DK man

colly10 wrote: »

How did she get your work number? This incident doesn't sound like an incedent at all and I wouldn't worry about your employer cause you did nothing wrong.
She made herself very clear in the car park, there was no need to phone your work to repeat it and if it happens again it could possibly be considered harassment

I guess one of the ladies who mind the children told her where I work and my name... I finished early today - they are usually taken to the after school where I collect her.

I have no problem with their rule and I understand their right to enforce this rule - it is a small car park - hence I had to reverse to swing back out - it was pouring rain and I initially had intended parking outside at the entrance but I didn't want to block the entrance. I was in and out in a few mins.

When my boss phoned me it wasn't a casual - x phoned looking for u will u ring her back.. It was the tone and language 'an incident' ... I felt like I was offering children sweets or taking pictures of chldren or something... Maybe I'm a bit sensitive but this has really rattled my cage... 3 nice bottles of o hara's ale and this is still annoying me...

Thanks

colly10

She may have said an incedent in the school carpark which doesn't sound great. Just tell your boss on Monday morning what the incident was then you can forget about it

notharrypotter

if it happens again it could possibly be considered harassment

Which the stranger driving around the school property?

Or the proper action by a responsible member of the school staff to challenge strange activity in a car on school property?

esforum

Your boss doesnt care, he / she just like you and the rest of us found it strange that they felt the need to ring your work.

Your child doesnt go to that school so they were right but ya know, bigger pictures an all that, they shouted, you apologised and that should realistically be that.

Legally though, no theres nothing to be done about it unless they harassed you or started sabotaging your career.

DK man

notharrypotter wrote: »

Which the stranger driving around the school property?

Or the proper action by a responsible member of the school staff to challenge strange activity in a car on school property?

I was picking up my 9 year old - this would have been relayed onto the member of staff... Her issue was that I wasn't allowed / permitted to drive in the car park and as I've said I don't have an issue with that... I wasn't some sort of stranger cruising around.

My main issue was that she phoned up my employer and insinuated that I was involved in 'an incident' at her school. And my employer phoned me in a concerned tone about this call...

I'm no expert on legal matters but the law is a system to deal with issues of unfair treatment / injustice so that's why I posted on what I thought is a forum which discusses legal matters. Maybe I have no legal protections in this instance - but is it fair / just to ring a persons employer to deal with a matter like this? As I don't know what this person said / reported about this I feel that there maybe be issues of slander - again - it was the tone of my employer and her need for me to deal with this that is causing me to get so annoyed..

Thanks

esforum

DK man wrote: »

I was picking up my 9 year old - this would have been relayed onto the member of staff

I dont want to make a big deal of this but if your child doesnt go to that school how would the staff know who you are?

DK man

esforum wrote: »

I dont want to make a big deal of this but if your child doesnt go to that school how would the staff know who you are?

As mentioned above - an after schools service collects the children at the 2 schools - the children from both schools gather in this shelter before walking off to the after schools centre which is about 10 mins walk away. There is 2 staff who pick up the children and I'm assuming that 1 of these was asked and told her who I was.... They both have my number

MarkAnthony

I'd suggest phoning her boss and making a complaint that this has been followed up in this way. Stress you knew you were in the wrong and apologise and that the only reason you're ringing the employer is your employer has been contacted and you feel that is very unprofessional if the professional capacity was used.

The only thing is, and would be a reason I would ring a company to complain, is your company name and telephone number emblazoned down the side of your vehicle by any chance?

MarkAnthony

As for legal protections - very tenuously harassment (criminal) or defamation (civil).

Harassment can be one incident but it's unusual and this wouldn't fall into that category really.

Defamation is extremely expensive to run and the exact details would need to be known. I'm not suggesting you post them here; that would be a matter for you and your solicitor.

DK man

No company logo and as I've said that I was on the property / school in a private capacity in my own car collecting my child who was standing in their shelter. It was a very quick in and out - as I was driving towards the school I saw her walking in and if I hadn't seen her I probably would not have driven in. I picked her up there many times and have never driven in before.

As I've said that I wouldn't mind her ringing my place of employment asking to speak to me - but by the way my employer phoned me in an assertive concerned tone - "where are you? We had a call from x who wants to speak to you about an incident that happened at the school - will you ring her - ring her - she wants to talk to you....

It was a primary school principal - she is the de facto boss! The board of management I suppose would have some managerial role.

Many thanks - still annoyed!!!! I'm on holidays this week and this putting a damper on this break that I was looking forward to...

DK man

No company logo and as I've said that I was on the property / school in a private capacity in my own car collecting my child who was standing in their shelter. It was a very quick in and out - as I was driving towards the school I saw her walking in and if I hadn't seen her I probably would not have driven in. I picked her up there many times and have never driven in before.

As I've said that I wouldn't mind her ringing my place of employment asking to speak to me - but by the way my employer phoned me in an assertive concerned tone - "where are you? We had a call from x who wants to speak to you about an incident that happened at the school - will you ring her - ring her - she wants to talk to you....

It was a primary school principal - she is the de facto boss! The board of management I suppose would have some managerial role.

Many thanks - still annoyed!!!! I'm on holidays this week and this putting a damper on this break that I was looking forward to...

monkeysnapper

I only have advice.

I would be furious if this happened to myself.

I would write a letter of complaint to the school board and write a statement of what happened and let them know you will be requesting a letter of apology or you will be taking this further.

esforum

DK man wrote: »

As mentioned above - an after schools service collects the children at the 2 schools - the children from both schools gather in this shelter before walking off to the after schools centre which is about 10 mins walk away. There is 2 staff who pick up the children and I'm assuming that 1 of these was asked and told her who I was.... They both have my number

Yes but thats afterwards, when the staff member saw your car arriving in how would they know its a parent collecing from the after school?

notharrypotter

My child goes to a school nearby

I wasn't some sort of stranger cruising around.

I would believe that you would be "some stranger" as your child does not attend the school in question.

I was on the property / school in a private capacity in my own car collecting my child who was standing in their shelter.

Both you and your child were trespassing.
Yet its the other person who is at fault?

It was a primary school principal

I would like to think its a good idea that when the school principal spots unauthorized activity that they challenge it.

will be requesting a letter of apology or you will be taking this further.

But here we are seeking compensation for the perpetrator.

Arbiter of Good Taste

esforum wrote: »

Yes but thats afterwards, when the staff member saw your car arriving in how would they know its a parent collecing from the after school?

Not relevant. At the time she rang the OP's employer she knew damn well who he was.

OP, how dare she, seriously, how dare she ring your employer in that manner. It sounds to me that she is the type of teacher who thinks she can treat everyone like they are children.

I agree with the poster who suggested a letter of complaint to the board of management demanding an apology.

notharrypotter

I agree with the poster who suggested a letter of complaint to the board of management demanding an apology.

And don't for get €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and lots of them.

Arbiter of Good Taste

notharrypotter wrote: »

I would believe that you would be "some stranger" as your child does not attend the school in question.

Both you and your child were trespassing.
Yet its the other person who is at fault?

I would like to think its a good idea that when the school principal spots unauthorized activity that they challenge it.

But here we are seeking compensation for the perpetrator.

Again, most of this is irrelevant. What the principal did at the time was absolutely correct. She has a duty to protect the children in the school. If the OP apologised as he claims then it should have ended there.

However, if the principal wanted to pursue it further then a private phonecall to the OP would suffice. There was absolutely no need to ring an employer. However if that was the only way she could contct him, then all she had to say is that she needed to speak to the OP on a "personal matter". End of.

Arbiter of Good Taste

notharrypotter wrote: »

And don't for get €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and lots of them.

I never suggested that.

turbot

Sounds like this person is a bully. Not a legal opinion, but route to redress this for your consideration.

You could write to the school board, describe the incident in a factual way, and ask them to clarify their policy on this and all related matters. When you do, cc the council and the road safety authority.

Ask about signage related to car park rules.

Express concern that if the person was this unusually vindictive for you, they may have anger issues (which may affect students well being) or make emotionally erratic decisions (which may mean a mis-use of school resources.)

Ask if it is normal to contact workplaces for pulling into
a carpark, when you were not blocking anyone. If this is standard practice and what other things people should be aware of?

Ask if it is appropriate behaviour for someone to aggressively confront you for pulling into a car park?

You could tell your employer you have written to the school board about this peculiar behaviour.

esforum

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Not relevant. At the time she rang the OP's employer she knew damn well who he was.

OP, how dare she, seriously, how dare she ring your employer in that manner. It sounds to me that she is the type of teacher who thinks she can treat everyone like they are children.

I agree with the poster who suggested a letter of complaint to the board of management demanding an apology.

Board of management can do sweet **** All. Its the principal and can anyone here show me an Act that precludes a person from using a work place as a point of contact even when not working?

as for knowing or not, yes its relevent as its the original point of contact. The start of an event can never be irelevent in regards the subsequent actions

Companies are contacted about their staff when off duty on a pretty regular basis, Gardai for starters. Anyone in a uniform and schools would be a common one even when the pupil was on their own time. No undue information or false statements were made by the caller to the boss that the OP has said anyway. "Hello, Mark was incolved in an incident in our sschool, can you ask him to call us?" Perfectly legal, perhaps a little OTT in my opinion but still legal

ray giraffe

turbot wrote: »

Sounds like this person is a bully.

Express concern that if the person was this unusually vindictive for you, they may have anger issues (which may affect students well being) or make emotionally erratic decisions (which may mean a mis-use of school resources.)

Agree completely.

That principal is a bully. Totally unreasonable and spiteful.

If the principal acts that way to parents, you can only imagine how nasty she is to teachers and students.

NicoleW85

I would pay her a visit at the school, and take control. Be the bigger person and say you apologise if there was some sort of misunderstanding when you left that day but you were under the impression she had heard your apology. You were surprised to hear she had contacted your work and you'd like to know what you can do now to make things right. She sounds like a very high maintenance diva but sweet talk her and make her see how stupid she's been without actually saying so.
In other words, kill her with kindness - what have you got to lose?

TheChizler

OP what do you want out of this? If you're concerned that your employer now has concerns because they were told about an non-specific incident then a request for a letter from the principal to your employer apologising for any possible insinuation and clarifying that it was minor and sorted out there and then might be the best course of action.

VincePP

Bordering on defamation.

Nothing illegal or improper in driving into a school to pick up a child who is in a joint group from 2 schools including that school.

It is not her property. She is simply an employee and has zero right to contact a third party about you.

I would get a solicitor to write to her stating that her actions have caused you embarrassment and harm and as such you will enact defamation proceedings against her and the school unless she makes a full and comprehensive apology in writing to you and your employer within 7 days.

Copy the letter to the board of management of the school.

Maybe tell her to take some nurofen plus for her obvious pmt.

FAILSAFE 00

Firstly explain the story to your employer.

Then write a letter to board of management or whoever the principal reports to explaining the situation that occurred and describe the inappropriate actions taken by the principal and the stress it caused.

I wouldn't expect much of an outcome but the principal won't like it when they have to explain their actions to their boss. Don't forget to use the word incident quite a lot.

esforum

VincePP wrote: »

Bordering on defamation.

How? How haz she defamed anyone? He was involved in an incident. its a completely 100% accurate comment

VincePP wrote: »

Nothing illegal or improper in driving into a school to pick up a child who is in a joint group from 2 schools including that school.

She is the custodian of the property and as there are signs everywhere, it was tresspass.

VincePP wrote: »

zero right to contact a third party about you.

Can you point out any act, case law or common law that states this? Can your neighbours not talk about their interactions with you? no personal information was disclosed that had been retained under the data protection act so that doesnt apply


jesus, it was a stroppy woman, nothing more. tell your boss what actually happened, they will stop caring and get on with your life. the people screaming about rights, letters amd apologies are being just as bid drama queens as the principal