Motor Tax Joke Rates - Any Change Due?

Mango Joe

Does this topic ever get aired?

What a rubbish system, people who can afford newer cars pay hardly any tax and poor to average families with lots of kids pay 710 euro a year so they can get kids to school

I was just wondering is it ever likely to be reviewed/corrected??

Any reasonable prospect or mention ever made on any front?

Thanks....

NIMAN

Can't see it changing in respect of the older, bigger engined cars, as to lower their rates would be against the green agenda.

What I can see however, is the lower rates increasing. So many cars are now in the lowest band, the Gov can't have this happening.

drunkmonkey

Mango Joe wrote: »

People who can afford newer cars pay hardly any tax

People who can afford new cars usually pay a shed load of tax just not on their motor tax.

I get your point though, pre 08 cars are unfairly taxed, they should be allowed pay the car tax on the cc or emissions whichever is lower. That would be fair. I will never ever vote for the green party after that stunt.

CJ Haughey

Buy a crew cab jeep and tax it commercially. €333 for the year.

eringobragh

Its a joke herself has an 07 Civic 1.8L which is nearly double what she would pay if the exact same car was 6 months younger.

We made an informed decision the 08's at the time were nearly 3K dearer so it made sense to go with the 2007, not alot in this country would think of this logically unfortunately.

Guy:Incognito

Mango Joe wrote: »

Does this topic ever get aired?

Nope, never.

Mango Joe wrote: »

What a rubbish system, people who can afford newer cars pay hardly any tax and poor to average families with lots of kids pay 710 euro a year so they can get kids to school .

The "bringing your kids to school" flat rate must surely be changed. It's unconstitutional , dammit.


Cars on the Co2 rates are now as much as 8 years old. Hardly the preserve of the super rich.

Atlantic Dawn

The system is set out so you pay them either by high motor tax on the older cars or in VRT on the newer low motor cars, there's no way around it. What will likely happen is in 3 or 4 years the low motor tax cars will need to have their motor tax increased as the number of older cars will be reducing on the road.

Renua the political party have said if they get in to power they will abolish motor tax and put a levy on fuel instead, that's about it.

CJ Haughey

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Renua the political party have said if they get in to power they will abolish motor tax and put a levy on fuel instead, that's about it.

Renau have a better chance of winning the euro millions than getting into power.

Guy:Incognito

CJ Haughey wrote: »

Renau have a better chance of winning the euro millions than getting into power.

The country will have to win the euromillions and the power ball every week as well as helping all those Nigerian princes get their fortunes back to try balance the books if they get any sort of power.

Guy:Incognito

eringobragh wrote: »

Its a joke herself has an 07 Civic 1.8L which is nearly double what she would pay if the exact same car was 6 months younger.

We made an informed decision the 08's at the time were nearly 3K dearer so it made sense to go with the 2007, not alot in this country would think of this logically unfortunately.

It's actually only about 50% more, €390 vs €570 . Seems like the motor tax rates worked out really well for you. Saving of a couple of grand for the sake of €180 a year.

bazz26

Mango Joe wrote: »

Does this topic ever get aired?

What a rubbish system, people who can afford newer cars pay hardly any tax and poor to average families with lots of kids pay 710 euro a year so they can get kids to school

I was just wondering is it ever likely to be reviewed/corrected??

Any reasonable prospect or mention ever made on any front?

Thanks....

While the system is obviously flawed and I do sympathize, to suggest people buying new cars pay hardly any tax is just misinformed. Do a bit of research on the breakdown of the price of your average new car and see how much of that price is made up of both VAT and VRT. These are both taxes and alot more than the blue murder they are getting away with from the savings in motor tax.

vandriver

bazz26 wrote: »

While the system is obviously flawed and I do sympathize, to suggest people buying new cars pay hardly any tax is just misinformed. Do a bit of research on the breakdown of the price of your average new car and see how much of that price is made up of both VAT and VRT. These are both taxes and alot more than the blue murder they are getting away with from the savings in motor tax.

A ridiculous argument,as all cars have vat and vrt on them,and diesels pre 08 had more vrt and vat than an equivalent car post 08 .
I'm not sure the Greens had affordable BMW's in mind when changing the system.

bazz26

vandriver wrote: »

A ridiculous argument,as all cars have vat and vrt on them,and diesels pre 08 had more vrt and vat than an equivalent car post 08 .
I'm not sure the Greens had affordable BMW's in mind when changing the system.

The point is that the notion that new car buyers are not paying any tax is simply not true.

flamegrill

bazz26 wrote: »

The point is that the notion that new car buyers are not paying any tax is simply not true.

Approx 50% of all new cars is Tax in the form of VRT and VAT. It's maddening.

TallGlass

bazz26 wrote: »

While the system is obviously flawed and I do sympathize, to suggest people buying new cars pay hardly any tax is just misinformed. Do a bit of research on the breakdown of the price of your average new car and see how much of that price is made up of both VAT and VRT. These are both taxes and alot more than the blue murder they are getting away with from the savings in motor tax.

I'd love to get a brand new car, something like a Focus or Fiesta, but the starting price on the is around 20k, and your pretty much setting yourself up for a loss of around 5k off the bat.

As someone once said, cars are the worst investment you could ever make.

flamegrill

TallGlass wrote: »

I'd love to get a brand new car, something like a Focus or Fiesta, but the starting price on the is around 20k, and your pretty much setting yourself up for a loss of around 5k off the bat.

As someone once said, cars are the worst investment you could ever make.

For a 20k car with 2k deposit and PCP you can change up every 3 years for a very small monthly payment. This is worth while doing over buying second hand IMO.

jimgoose

Mango Joe wrote: »

Does this topic ever get aired?

What a rubbish system, people who can afford newer cars pay hardly any tax...

I would just like to point out that some of us could fill the yard with new cars in the morning, but would rather shave our heads with a cheesegrater.

My views on this are well-known and I won't bother my hole repeating the rigmarole here. :pac:

Indricotherium

It is a bit galling when you see a 911 with lower tax than Mazda 6 and the justification for it is lower emissions.

jimgoose

Indricotherium wrote: »

It is a bit galling when you see a 911 with lower tax than Mazda 6 and the justification for it is lower emissions.

Presumably Stuttgart are making one with no engine these days, especially for ze Pixie-Heads and zere dummkopf tax rates? :pac:

Henry Ford III

Indricotherium wrote:

It is a bit galling when you see a 911 with lower tax than Mazda 6 and the justification for it is lower emissions.

Hard to believe. Can you show an example please?

jimgoose

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hard to believe. Can you show an example please?

Fas as I know the entry-level 991 is a 3.0l flat-six petrol, as it should be.

Indricotherium

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hard to believe. Can you show an example please?

I saw one parked the other day and the disc said ~€670.
2007 petrol Mazda 6 is €710

jimgoose

Indricotherium wrote: »

I saw one parked the other day and the disc said ~€670.
2007 petrol Mazda 6 is €710

Half-year for the 191-225 g/km bracket, no?

Mango Joe

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Nope, never.



The "bringing your kids to school" flat rate must surely be changed. It's unconstitutional , dammit.


Cars on the Co2 rates are now as much as 8 years old. Hardly the preserve of the super rich.

What is this? Is that really your entry level point on joining in on a conversation with adults??? Smirk ignorantly as you may, this issue is very irritating/problematic for a lot of families, perhaps all you have to worry about is keeping your headphone cables untangled on the bus and your Playstation controller charged.....

- This flawed system has an impact on car resale prices and I think it merits discussion without childish attempts to ridicule whether it impacts your life of not.

bazz26 wrote: »

While the system is obviously flawed and I do sympathize, to suggest people buying new cars pay hardly any tax is just misinformed. Do a bit of research on the breakdown of the price of your average new car and see how much of that price is made up of both VAT and VRT. These are both taxes and alot more than the blue murder they are getting away with from the savings in motor tax.

I can't afford a new car right now (and wouldn't buy new in Ireland anyhow) - Even though both of us are University graduates in full time employment - Please don't take a standpoint that relies on misguiding people and arguing tenuously related facts to suit your point of view!

bazz26 wrote: »

The point is that the notion that new car buyers are not paying any tax is simply not true.

Who said this? When? Where? - No wonder you're so confused so, please take a minute to reread!

I know of a guy in work (young, no wife, mortgage, kids etc.) bought a new car, drove it for a year, paid a full years motor tax on it, then sold it 10 days later on a passing whim - When I asked him about the tax angle he made it very clear that a full years tax on this car was loose change to him and it didn't really enter his head when considering changing the car.......

The tax on a pre july 08 Accord diesel is E994 up front or E1,120 paid quarterly which some of you will be aware is how some families MUST pay this due to financial constraints - It would make a fantastic, reliable, economical, safe daily use family car otherwise.

In all fairness people, its a crap system and impossible to defend, it suited successive Governments to leave it in situ and us Sheep allowed it to happen.

- Also to argue that the passage of time has lessened the impact is true but not the entire just/reasonable solution in all fairness.

hi5

Currently the cheapest for emissions tax is €1200 for the 911, the dearest Mazda 6 is €270.
The rich may pay more taxes but the poor pay a higher percentage of their income on tax.
Anyway there is no tax on children's shoes so the kids should walk to school:)

Buona Fortuna

Mango Joe wrote: »

I can't afford a new car right now (and wouldn't buy new in Ireland anyhow) - Even though both of us are University graduates in full time employment - Please don't take a standpoint that relies on misguiding people and arguing tenuously related facts to suit your point of view!



- Also to argue that the passage of time has lessened the impact is true but not the entire just/reasonable solution in all fairness.

A lad nearby has an address in the north. I know because he's not great with computers and he asked for help with the renewal on his old Polo - £64.75 for 6 months.

milltown

Mango Joe wrote: »

What is this?

I think you're getting confused between people defending the system (none), and people discussing the arguments against it.

Mango Joe

milltown wrote: »

I think you're getting confused between people defending the system (none), and people discussing the arguments against it.

Maybe I was reactionary - I certainly took it as a childish insult of my OP - I'll apologise if this was not the case, but I'd need convincing in all fairness.....

biko

Yes, the tax system is an old bugbear for many. If you keep car to a small 1.0 or 1.2 it won't hurt as much.

Some people with old luxobarges pay as much tax per year as they paid for the entire car.

Mango Joe

biko wrote: »

Yes, the tax system is an old bugbear for many. If you keep car to a small 1.0 or 1.2 it won't hurt as much.

Some people with old luxobarges pay as much tax per year as they paid for the entire car.

Thanks for this - Yes but this is dependent on location, ie. urban/rural & associated annual mileage and whether you've a 'Catholic' number of kids or not...... :P

eringobragh

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It's actually only about 50% more, €390 vs €570 . Seems like the motor tax rates worked out really well for you. Saving of a couple of grand for the sake of €180 a year.

Its actually €636 for the 1.8 unfortunately but yeah I agree with you there, unfortunately thats the Irish Pysche.

Mate of mine buying a diesel golf 2013 model 1.6 - Would you not go for the 2L says I? "No, the tax" - FFS :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

this bloody topic again! we all know before buying a car what the rate is. Some cars are actually more expensive on the emissions system. You want to tax a car cheap on cc system, go for a small cc one.

I can easily afford an 08 version or newer of the older car I have now, why don't I? because they are so overpriced to save mickey mouse money on motor tax. It took my first car, which wasn't that expensive, to figure out that depreciation and loan interest are the real expenses with most cars, the tax is fairly mickey mouse in the scheme of things!

Its hilarious that giving a few extra euro to the government is seen as wanton waste, yet giving thousands to the bank or simply the money going up in smoke on depreciation, is more than acceptable :rolleyes:

morritty

eringobragh wrote: »

Its actually €636 for the 1.8 unfortunately but yeah I agree with you there, unfortunately thats the Irish Pysche.

Mate of mine buying a diesel golf 2013 model 1.6 - Would you not go for the 2L says I? "No, the tax" - FFS :rolleyes:

Serious? isnt the 1.6 90BHp 180 a year compaired to the 1.6 105BHP and the 2.0 150bhp both 200 a year?

duffman3833

the thing that screwed me is the depreciation of pre 08 cars. If the tax system remained the same my car could be worth a couple of grand more, but as a trade in dealers wont give a good price cause "Its high tax" and giving me a stupid price for car and because Irish logic is stupid at times, selling private i wont get as much either as the irish will see it high tax and want something else which will make me sell at a lower price

Toyotafanboi

the thing is you probably bought it cheaper too, being pre 08, if you bought it over the last number of years.

realistically, if you've owned it since it was new in the early 2000's, depreciation isn't a concern of yours anyway and dealers are always going to offer peanuts for 10+ year old trade in.

not that i agree with the system as it stands, but none of us bought a car not knowing what the tax cost. it's a bit gutting for 3 months on my Celica to cost almost the same as a year on the Astra, but that's life.

kyeev

Anyone have a good reason as to why the government shouldn't adopt the Renua (!) proposal to transfer car tax directly onto the price of fuel?

Sounds like a good idea, pay as you go car tax.

I'll add it to my list to berate the GE2016 canvassers with...

Atlantic Dawn

Mango Joe wrote: »

Thanks for this - Yes but this is dependent on location, ie. urban/rural & associated annual mileage and whether you've a 'Catholic' number of kids or not...... :P

The rural driver benefits from cheaper property tax for their house compared to urban dwellers despite the face that one off houses cost the councils much more to provide services like roads to.

Indricotherium

hi5 wrote: »

Currently the cheapest for emissions tax is €1200 for the 911, the dearest Mazda 6 is €270.
The rich may pay more taxes but the poor pay a higher percentage of their income on tax.
Anyway there is no tax on children's shoes so the kids should walk to school:)

A 2007 Mazda 6 costs 710 to tax

fepper

Indricotherium wrote: »

A 2007 Mazda 6 costs 710 to tax

That would be 1
.9 diesel or 2l petrol??

lazeedaisy

My mum's pre 08 Accord diesel is E994 a ÿear, we are going to have to get rid of it late this year as she is a pensioner and for the life of her, can't afford this cost.

Will be shopping around, would love her car though, 2004 still as a new car feel and smell! Happy with my golf at €600!

Supergurrier

Hi Tom !

Roadrat

The Greens!!! Don't get me started.I remember being in company while watching the Six One back in 2008 when we were just about to get walloped by the troika.John Gormely was on about lightbulbs. Nearly collapsed with laughter. Good riddance to that shower.

Sorry mod if this is off thread. Feel free to delete.

BrianD3

hi5 wrote: »

Currently the cheapest for emissions tax is €1200 for the 911,

Since the latest facelift the 911 Carrera PDK (3.0 turbo) is down to 169 g/km which means tax of 570 euro

370 bhp
0-100 km/h in 4.2 secs
0-160 km/h in 9.2 secs
tax of 570

The new Boxster S 718 has very similar figures and it too is 570 to tax.

Indricotherium

fepper wrote: »

That would be 1
.9 diesel or 2l petrol??

1.8 petrol

Indricotherium

BrianD3 wrote: »

Since the latest facelift the 911 Carrera PDK (3.0 turbo) is down to 169 g/km which means tax of 570 euro

370 bhp
0-100 km/h in 4.2 secs
0-160 km/h in 9.2 secs
tax of 570

The new Boxster S 718 has very similar figures and it too is 570 to tax.

Exactly. Whichis €240 cheaper for the year than a 2007 Mazda 6.

Which is total bull**** if the rationale behind the rates is reducing polution.

Veloce

I'm happy enough with my pre '08 - I'm paying €1,809 instead of €2,350!

fepper

Indricotherium wrote: »

1.8 petrol

I've a 02 Mazda 6 and tax is €636 a year

kuro2k

Worst thing that could happen is that they get rid of motor tax and put it on the price of fuel. Fuel will rise and after a few years they will just reintroduce it again, it happened in the late 70's early 80's it will happen again


What we need is for the government to copy the new uk system

Atlantic Dawn

kuro2k wrote: »

Worst thing that could happen is that they get rid of motor tax and put it on the price of fuel. Fuel will rise and after a few years they will just reintroduce it again, it happened in the late 70's early 80's it will happen again


What we need is for the government to copy the new uk system

Putting it on fuel though would mean the more you use the roads the more you pay for them.

Lellostag

fepper wrote: »

That would be 1
.9 diesel or 2l petrol??

That would be the 2 litre diesel.

Renegade Mechanic

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Nope, never.



The "bringing your kids to school" flat rate must surely be changed. It's unconstitutional , dammit.


Cars on the Co2 rates are now as much as 8 years old. Hardly the preserve of the super rich.

Take it from someone who regularly delivered "the good news" to school runners thinking they could scrape together enough money to buy the first cars in the lower tax band.
You'd need to be super rich to maintain them.. Particle filters, egrs, flywheels etc etc etc....