Just came home to this. Any ideas?

godtabh

Just came home and noticed a burning smell.

I have an extension lead with a tumble dryer attached. Nothing else. Has been like this for approx. 3 years.







I've rand an electrician to come out and have a look. Not sure when he can come.

There is nothing in the plugs now. Anything else I should be doing?

DublinDilbert

godtabh wrote: »

Just came home and noticed a burning smell.

I have an extension lead with a tumble dryer attached. Nothing else. Has been like this for approx. 3 years.







I've rand an electrician to come out and have a look. Not sure when he can come.

There is nothing in the plugs now. Anything else I should be doing?

Needs new socket and get one installed close to the tumble dryer so no extension needed. The extension was probably poor quality.

godtabh

Would the fact we got a letter about over heating tumble dryers in the post yesterday have anything to do with it?

Deep Six

godtabh wrote: »

Would the fact we got a letter about over heating tumble dryers in the post yesterday have anything to do with it?

Was the filter of the dryer cleaned out before you used it last? I've experienced a similar burning smell before and narrowed it down to the filter, hadnt been emptied for 2 or 3 runs.

godtabh

its emptied every time its used

Atlantic Dawn

As a side note you shouldn't have the paper instructions left on the plug.

godtabh

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

As a side note you shouldn't have the paper instructions left on the plug.

Could that have caused it?

Atlantic Dawn

godtabh wrote: »

Could that have caused it?

I'm no electrician but I don't think so, it looks like something made the live connection short.

topmanamillion

An electrician is the only one that's going to be able to tell you for sure.
Very frightening to come home to that. By the looks of it I Wouldn't say it was far off starting a fire.

godtabh

luckily it burnt its self out before any serious damage occured.

Have some one coming over for 8. Sent him the same photos above and he says he hasnt seen anything like it

godtabh

luckily it burnt its self out before any serious damage occured.

Have some one coming over for 8. Sent him the same photos above and he says he hasnt seen anything like it

He must not do to much electrical work if he's never seen that before!

subpar

looks like loose connection in the live terminal of the plug top caused sparking / overheating

brightspark

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'm no electrician but I don't think so, it looks like something made the live connection short.

n

Nope, most likely cause was a loose connection, either in the plugtop or in the socket.

Replace the socket and plug if you ever see heat marks on a plug.

brightspark

subpar wrote: »

looks like loose connection in the live terminal of the plug top caused sparking / overheating

My guess would have been the neutral connection in the plug, it is the most damaged?

Bruthal

Deep Six wrote: »

Was the filter of the dryer cleaned out before you used it last? I've experienced a similar burning smell before and narrowed it down to the filter, hadnt been emptied for 2 or 3 runs.

Clearly the burning smell in this case is from the burning connection between the plug and socket. Most often caused by weakened contacts in the socket which don't grip the plug pins tight enough, either from old sockets, or poor quality ones. Loose connection in the plug can also cause it, but the photos suggest a bad contact between plug and socket contacts.

dr.fuzzenstein

brightspark wrote: »

My guess would have been the neutral connection in the plug, it is the most damaged?

If neutral was damaged I would look for a very serious wiring fault that could dump live current into the neutral circuit for long enough to melt it. Unless a goat wired the house and there is no circuit breaker, this cannot happen.
What does happen a lot with extension leads and washing machines/dryers, the socket is on the ground (bad, BAD idea!) and washing up liquid leaks on top of it or there's a water spillage (or both) and you get the result seen in the OP.
OP already mention lose wire, 99.9% it's the live wire. Probably been arcing away for some time and now it finally burned the last few strands of wire resulting in this charred mess.

EDIT

Please disregard this post, I must have been drunk! Mixed up neutral and earth.

JonnyM

brightspark wrote: »

My guess would have been the neutral connection in the plug, it is the most damaged?

It's not the neutral it's the live. You can clearly see the live in the plug top has been burnt.

Could also have been the extension lead being too small. A large load like a tumble dryer over a period of time on a small cable in the extension lead causing it to overheat. Heat transfered to plug top causing it to burn.

godtabh

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If neutral was damaged I would look for a very serious wiring fault that could dump live current into the neutral circuit for long enough to melt it. Unless a goat wired the house and there is no circuit breaker, this cannot happen.
What does happen a lot with extension leads and washing machines/dryers, the socket is on the ground (bad, BAD idea!) and washing up liquid leaks on top of it or there's a water spillage (or both) and you get the result seen in the OP.
OP already mention lose wire, 99.9% it's the live wire. Probably been arcing away for some time and now it finally burned the last few strands of wire resulting in this charred mess.

Should any of that have caused a trip?

godtabh

JonnyM wrote: »

It's not the neutral it's the live. You can clearly see the live in the plug top has been burnt.

Could also have been the extension lead being too small. A large load like a tumble dryer over a period of time on a small cable in the extension lead causing it to overheat. Heat transfered to plug top causing it to burn.

It was a 13 amp fuse. Again if this was the issue should it have tripped the switch?

The lad coming over later suggested that this may have been the cause. The dryer might have drawn less amps that what the plug was rated for but as it was on for so long may have caused it

brightspark

JonnyM wrote: »

It's not the neutral it's the live. You can clearly see the live in the plug top has been burnt.

Could also have been the extension lead being too small. A large load like a tumble dryer over a period of time on a small cable in the extension lead causing it to overheat. Heat transfered to plug top causing it to burn.

Have another look.

dilallio

I has a very similar incident where the burning was a lot worse,also with a tumbler drier. It burned right through a double socket even though the drier still had its sealed plug - I. E. It was unlikely to be the plug.
In the 6 months prior to this, we went through 3 mira shower motors, all replaced under warranty.
A day after that, the oven wouldn't power on.

Turns out the landlord got his untrained brother to wire the house previously after a major renovation, and he hadn't tightened properly most of the connections behind a good few sockets. Most were just pushed in and not tightened at all. In the case of the socket connected to the drier, the current was trying to cross a narrow path and caused serious overheating and fire.

brightspark

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If neutral was damaged I would look for a very serious wiring fault that could dump live current into the neutral circuit for long enough to melt it.

The current that flows through the neutral pin of the plug is supposed to be exactly the same as the current flowing through the live pin!

Only the earth pin shouldn't have current flowing through it (but nevertheless needs to be able to carry the current)

brightspark

godtabh wrote: »

Should any of that have caused a trip?

A loose connection unfortunately will not cause a trip.

2011

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If neutral was damaged I would look for a very serious wiring fault that could dump live current into the neutral circuit for long enough to melt it.

This makes no sense. The tumble dryer is a single phase device, this means that the current flowing in the neutral conductor is equal to the current flowing in the phase (live) conductor.

Unless a goat wired the house and there is no circuit breaker, this cannot happen.

A "circuit breaker" (normally an MCB in a domestic installation) is a device that is designed to detect an overcorrect condition, it is not designed to detect a fire / over heating on the circuit.
There is nothing to suggest that the current flowing was excessive. Typically an MCB for a socket circuit in a domestic installation is a 20A B type.
This means that even if 25A was drawn for a prolonged period the MCB would not trip. If the tumble dryer was drawing that sort of current the fuse in the plug would have blown.

godtabh wrote: »

It was a 13 amp fuse. Again if this was the issue should it have tripped the switch?

No. The most likely cause is a high resistance connection such as a loose connection within the plug or socket or weakened contacts in the socket as has already been suggested.

Remember the formula for heat in Watts is I^2 x R
Where I = current (generally high for a tumble dryer)
and R = the resistance

So even a small resistance can cause quite a bit of heat as heat is proportional to the square of the current.

The dryer might have drawn less amps that what the plug was rated for but as it was on for so long may have caused it

Not likely.
The plug has a 13A fuse and you have been using it for years.
Unless you have an unusually large industrial type tumble dryer that is.

You could always Google the make and model, get the kW rating and work out i=f the load is excessive for a 13A plug top if you want to be 100% sure.

As has already been pointed out it is ill advised to:
1) Leave the paper on the plug.
2) Permanently use an extension lead on a tumble dryer.

Bruthal

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If neutral was damaged I would look for a very serious wiring fault that could dump live current into the neutral circuit for long enough to melt it.

I wouldn't think so myself. It's a 2 wire connection no more likely to burn at the phase or neutral pin from any upstream problems. It's a bad connection with a relatively high load in socket term's, on it.

2011

Most likely the solution is very simple:

1) Replace the socket outlet with a quality socket outlet. I would suggest MK.

2) Replace the plug with a quality plug such as MK.

3) Stop supplying the tumble dryer (or similar appliances that draw a large current) with an extension lead for protracted periods. This may mean that you require a new socket to be installed closer to the tumble dryer.

4) Inspect the other sockets and plugs for damage, paper, signs of wear, loose connections etc...

Rackstar

Were you running the tumble dryer while not home? If so let it be a lesson to you.

I'd never leave the dishwasher / washing machine / tumble dryer running when I'm not home. I thought that's normal practice?

2011

Rackstar wrote: »

I thought that's normal practice?

Not for me.

Rackstar

2011 wrote: »

Not for me.

Well it should be, you're running a risk by doing it.

"NEVER leave your dryer, washing machine or dishwasher running unattended or overnight. They are a fire risk because of their high wattage, friction and motors."

Above quote from fire and rescue service below.

http://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/Assets/1/Tumble-Dryer-leaflet.pdf

gctest50

Rackstar wrote: »

Well it should be, you're running a risk by doing it.

Above quote from fire and rescue service below.

http://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/Assets/1/Tumble-Dryer-leaflet.pdf

from the above :

There has been a sharp increase in the number of appliance fires in business premises so it is important to consider the following information carefully :

maybe some of the appliances got a bit of help

godtabh

The electrician has been and gone.

He reckons it was the extension lead.

He test the remaining socket and there was no breaks in that.

Took the socket out. No damage on the other side. All damage was inside the pin hole (or what ever it is closed).

He tested the circuit board by inverting a plug which caused it to trip.

He replaced the socket and is coming back to fit another plug in the utility room.

I might move the tumble dryer to a room at has its dedicated plug.

Tuco88

I take it you void the warranty if you cut off a molded plug top off a new appliance?

I do hate those type sockets with a passion, MK, hager or click curva are the way to go .

Should a fellow carry out an IR test on the circuit also, I'd be a worried about the extent of the damage if any behind the socket.

Tuco88

I hope he didn't test the rcd with a "inverted" plug top with a neutral to earth short, if that's what's it's called this days 😯

godtabh

Tuco88 wrote: »

I hope he didn't test the rcd with a "inverted" plug top with a neutral to earth short, if that's what's it's called this days 😯

I dont know exactly what he did

dr.fuzzenstein

Bruthal wrote: »

I wouldn't think so myself. It's a 2 wire connection no more likely to burn at the phase or neutral pin from any upstream problems. It's a bad connection with a relatively high load in socket term's, on it.

Actually, forget what I said, I mixed up neutral and earth. I swear this never happens! Sorry, my bad!
I will fix my post.

Irish Steve

Does the tumble dryer extension lead plug get taken out on a regular basis so the socket can be used for other things?

If yes, and on a regular basis, that maybe a factor in this overheated socket, ideally, high current devices like dryers and the like are best left with the plug in the socket and not regularly being swapped.

Bruthal

Irish Steve wrote: »

Does the tumble dryer extension lead plug get taken out on a regular basis so the socket can be used for other things?

If yes, and on a regular basis, that maybe a factor in this overheated socket, ideally, high current devices like dryers and the like are best left with the plug in the socket and not regularly being swapped.

Yea that definitely can be a factor alright on sockets regularly plugged in and out of when higher load devices are used, especially with lower quality sockets.

godtabh

Irish Steve wrote: »

Does the tumble dryer extension lead plug get taken out on a regular basis so the socket can be used for other things?

If yes, and on a regular basis, that maybe a factor in this overheated socket, ideally, high current devices like dryers and the like are best left with the plug in the socket and not regularly being swapped.

No. I'd say its been un plugged a handful of times over a 3 year period

dr.fuzzenstein

godtabh wrote: »

No. I'd say its been un plugged a handful of times over a 3 year period

Did anything ever spill on it? We fried an extension lead once when clothes washing up liquid spilled on it.
How's the drier? Does it work with another lead? If it had a short, it could have fried the socket.

Bruthal

Even if the socket end of the extension lead is submerged in a tank of water, and it managed to stay on without tripping the rcd, it won't affect the plug of the lead in another socket.

This was caused by bad connection(s), not an overload. And water won't cause an overload really, unless there are large metal plates close together in the water.

A socket with a plug in it itself being soaked, would cause problems for that plug and socket, but not a plug on a lead supplying the soaked one.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bruthal wrote: »

Even if the socket end of the extension lead is submerged in a tank of water, and it managed to stay on without tripping the rcd, it won't affect the plug of the lead in another socket.

This was caused by bad connection(s), not an overload. And water won't cause an overload really, unless there are large metal plates close together in the water.

A socket with a plug in it itself being soaked, would cause problems for that plug and socket, but not a plug on a lead supplying the soaked one.

Fair point.

Bruthal

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fair point.

It certainly would cause serious problems for any plug and socket that's actually subject to the water and detergent etc alright,.

Steve

This was a loose connection on the neutral connection in the plug. It was already said, just want to re-affirm that.

I've seen a lot worse in panels and seen fires caused because of it, count yourself lucky you found it before the worst happened

Bruthal

I'd go for arcing between the socket contact and the plug pin myself, in absence of a good close look.at the plug. But its all the one. It's a failed connection anyway which is certain.

Steve

Bruthal wrote: »

I'd go for arcing between the socket contact and the plug pin myself, in absence of a good close look.at the plug. But its all the one. It's a failed connection anyway which is certain.

I'd disagree, most of the burning was in the plug housing. If it was in the socket then there would be less carbon in the plug.

Bruthal

Steve wrote: »

I'd disagree, most of the burning was in the plug housing. If it was in the socket then there would be less carbon in the plug.

My opinion would be that it's more likely to have the large area contact to pin in socket arcing enough to get pin so hot as to destroy the socket and plug, than it is for the much smaller multi strand flex to arc onto terminal in plug, and last long enough without burning away, long before destroying both socket and plug.

There is a fair chance the relatively more massive plug pin was heated to almost red hot by arcing inside socket, and this caused damage to the connection in the plug as well.

The socket itself appears distorted, suggesting internally generated heat.

Overall, it shows signs of breakdown of connections in both socket and plug. But the pin looks oxidised which suggests it must have been almost glowing hot.

Steve

We will have to disagree on that so

Bruthal

Steve wrote: »

We will have to disagree on that so

Agreeing to disagree suggests a solidly made up mind. I'll keep a more open one myself in the absence of the dismantled socket.

Steve

Bruthal wrote: »

Agreeing to disagree suggests a solidly made up mind. I'll keep a more open one myself in the absence of the dismantled socket.

I agree, without seeing first hand the plug and socket, we cannot tell. However, 20+ years of experience has to count for something?

Bruthal

Steve wrote: »

However, 20+ years of experience has to count for something?

Hmm, you're only a young fella:D