UK car mag VW Ireland/Frank Keane consumer issue

Stallingrad

Interesting consumer article in Autoexpress or Autocar this week (browsing so not sure). A chap had a faulty adaptive cruise control on his 2 year old Golf. Frank Keane VW wanted €1400 approx to fix, even though there was no apparent damage to the unit and the car was under warranty.

The owner went to an Indy and got it fixed for €50. VW's response was to warn the owner their warranty may now be invalid! All in all pretty poor stuff from VW by the look of it.

Toyotafanboi

Stallingrad wrote: »

All in all pretty poor stuff from VW by the look of it.

no surprises there then

PixelTrawler

Stallingrad wrote: »

Interesting consumer article in Autoexpress or Autocar this week (browsing so not sure). A chap had a faulty adaptive cruise control on his 2 year old Golf. Frank Keane VW wanted €1400 approx to fix, even though there was no apparent damage to the unit and the car was under warranty.

The owner went to an Indy and got it fixed for €50. VW's response was to warn the owner their warranty may now be invalid! All in all pretty poor stuff from VW by the look of it.

Do you have a link for a read?

Notch000

a friend of mine when to Audi dealer with a blown lightbulb, they quoted 420 for a new light housing & fitting, he got it himself at an independent place for 80E and then took it to an indy to get fitted (at my advice), they laughed and said it only needed the bulb holder that a 8 euro part and require 3 wire crimping. nothing to do with the housing at all

he only went to the dealer as the car came back from a TB service with the bulb gone

moral of the story
main dealer = scam artists

Pete123456

Talked to ford about a replacement gps antenna for my focus, said the original part was 80 quid and about 10 mins labour (could have done it myself) but when I went to order it, it had been superseded by 220 quid worth of parts and several hours labour at 80 euros an hour plus vat! Then your one at the desk said not to bother cause I'd have to update the nav and maps and it wouldn't be worth it.

Moral of the story is I spent 22 quid on an aftermarket antenna and ran the cable in about 20 mins. Car picks up 10 satellites now.

Neilw

Stallingrad wrote: »

Interesting consumer article in Autoexpress or Autocar this week (browsing so not sure). A chap had a faulty adaptive cruise control on his 2 year old Golf. Frank Keane VW wanted €1400 approx to fix, even though there was no apparent damage to the unit and the car was under warranty.

The owner went to an Indy and got it fixed for €50. VW's response was to warn the owner their warranty may now be invalid! All in all pretty poor stuff from VW by the look of it.

If the car was still under warranty why was the owner being charged to fix the faulty part?

What did the indy do to fix the faulty cruise control? If he modified or fitted non oe parts the warranty could be made invalid.

Not enough info to make a call imo, oh and BTW I'm in no way sticking up for Keanes.

CIP4

VW Ireland customer care office in Dublin is the biggest joke of a place. The drivers seat wore in our Octavia after 40k km 1 year old it was 100% a fault with the material in the seat as it started to unravel. Now what a new seat cover cost VW sub 50 quid. Well the arguing we went through with VW Ireland from them saying we were the wrong type of clothes and did we wear belts I mean is there a certain brand of clothing you have to wear after a while we just gave up on. It.

My mother said to them I hope it was worth it for them to lose the sale of several new VW in future years over a fcuking seat cover. They rang a year later to ask her about changing to a new Skoda boy were they sorry they rang :pac: still to this day she says she will never touch another VAG car over it I mean no one gives a fcuk about the cost it was the the principal of it.

Stallingrad

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Do you have a link for a read?

Don't think its online, saw it in a newsagent.

CJhaughey

Its actually quite interesting the difference in Customer care between Japanese and German marques, broadly speaking the bigger Japanese companies like Honda and Toyota are very good with aftercare, things like repaint on red Avensis being covered and Accord exhaust manifolds being replaced are quite common even on older models. VAG seem to be particularly poor with any kind of warranty claims.

colm_mcm

this story doesn't add up.

Stallingrad

colm_mcm wrote: »

this story doesn't add up.

I think VW's inspection indicated the unit on the front was damaged in someway, though not visible from the outside of the car, but the Indy was able to repair it for a fraction of the fee VW wanted.

colm_mcm

you can't really expect vw to have to cover it if it was damaged due to impact etc.

repairing something rather than replacing with a brand new item is usually cheaper. whether the repair compromises the system is another matter.

Stallingrad

colm_mcm wrote: »

you can't really expect vw to have to cover it if it was damaged due to impact etc.

repairing something rather than replacing with a brand new item is usually cheaper. whether the repair compromises the system is another matter.

Not under warranty, no, but I think the point was the discrepancy between the two costs of repair. FK also would not let the owner drive the car off the forecourt as they felt the car was unsafe, so the owner had to get it towed away. The threat of voiding the warranty on the entire car was real though, which seems heavy handed. In others words, pay our price, we won't release the car, and if you do kiss you warranty goodbye.

Pretty shoddy if you ask me.

Ron Burgundy II

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its actually quite interesting the difference in Customer care between Japanese and German marques, broadly speaking the bigger Japanese companies like Honda and Toyota are very good with aftercare, things like repaint on red Avensis being covered and Accord exhaust manifolds being replaced are quite common even on older models. VAG seem to be particularly poor with any kind of warranty claims.

Toyota customer care is shocking. Parents had an MMT Yaris, which would often decide to come out of gear and go no further. It was in and out of most Toyot garages around Cork and no one could resolve the issue. Toyota Ireland were pitiful to deal with, basically didn't want to provide any help. Turns out that this issue is huge and in the UK Toyota were very proactive in trying to get a fix (according to UK forums).

Neilw

Stallingrad wrote: »

Not under warranty, no, but I think the point was the discrepancy between the two costs of repair. FK also would not let the owner drive the car off the forecourt as they felt the car was unsafe, so the owner had to get it towed away. The threat of voiding the warranty on the entire car was real though, which seems heavy handed. In others words, pay our price, we won't release the car, and if you do kiss you warranty goodbye.

Pretty shoddy if you ask me.

Again not stickig up for them

If the ACC sensor was damaged in some way, but repairable by a diy'r, VW would still replace the sensor, they don't do repairs like that.
Hence the high cost of the sensor, fitting it and calibration which at the moment only VW can do from what I hear on the street.

As for not releasing the car, that's a bit much but again the ACC sensor is part of the cars safety systems, so maybe that's why they said its unsafe.

Ron Burgundy II

Neilw wrote: »

Again not stickig up for them

If the ACC sensor was damaged in some way, but repairable by a diy'r, VW would still replace the sensor, they don't do repairs like that.
Hence the high cost of the sensor, fitting it and calibration which at the moment only VW can do from what I hear on the street.

As for not releasing the car, that's a bit much but again the ACC sensor is part of the cars safety systems, so maybe that's why they said its unsafe.

ACC applies the break should you fail to react in time.

Stallingrad

I guess what is interesting is that cars that have this feature generally have the sensor located under the bumper, which is quite a vulnerable area, a small knock can mean a scary bill.

Neilw

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

ACC applies the break should you fail to react in time.

I know, I have it on my car

Ron Burgundy II

Neilw wrote: »

I know, I have it on my car

ditto

RandomAccess

Found a copy of it,

http://www.pressreader.com/uk/auto-express/20160203/282106340670905/TextView

ba_barabus

Everything in here is designed to break but we're pretty sure they're thick enough to believe it's good quality.

Rob C

It's disgraceful the way too many of them operate.

We're all just sick and tired of the way we're bent over by the motor trade here in every way. Car prices, spec levels, VRT, road tax, insurance costs, dealer attitudes, you name it. I laugh when I hear British people moan about what they have to put up with.

Toyotafanboi

Rob C wrote: »

We're all just sick and tired of the way we're bent over by the motor trade here in every way. Car prices, spec levels, VRT, road tax, insurance costs, dealer attitudes, you name it. I laugh when I hear British people moan about what they have to put up with.

in fairness, the motor trade has no controlling hand in any of those things.

JoeA3

I've always had very good experiences with warranty claims with VW. I think having a good relationship with your local dealer goes a long way...

As for this case, I've read / heard that the ACC sensor on the front of the MK7 Golf is relatively inexpensive to replace but it's the calibration that costs a bomb and that only the VW dealers have the equipment to do it.

And as for Frank Keanes.... Less said the better. Shoddy dealer in my personal experience.

ba_barabus

JoeA3 wrote: »

I've always had very good experiences with warranty claims with VW.

JoeA3 wrote: »

And as for Frank Keanes.... Less said the better. Shoddy dealer in my personal experience.

Was vw the common denominator?

Rob C

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

in fairness, the motor trade has no controlling hand in any of those things.

I really mean the motor industry 'ecosphere' here, i.e. trade plus the government. I know the government is the real factor in all this.

JoeA3

ba_barabus wrote: »

Was vw the common denominator?

errr what? No. They aren't my local dealers.

I just had a poor experience with one of their sales staff last year. VW had nothing to do with it, I just happened to come across a pig ignorant "salesman" when I called into them when passing one day. Aside from that I've heard first hand reports that their service dept leaves a lot to be desired too.

Rob C

JoeA3 wrote: »

errr what? No. They aren't my local dealers.

I just had a poor experience with one of their sales staff last year. VW had nothing to do with it, I just happened to come across a pig ignorant "salesman" when I called into them when passing one day. Aside from that I've heard first hand reports that their service dept leaves a lot to be desired too.

I think of a lot of these big group dealers have stretched themselves too far to the point you can have vastly different experiences from one branch to the other of the same group. Frank Keane BMW on the Naas Rd are very good, really top class customer care from everyone for BMW and Mini. Yet Frank Keane in Blackrock, nowhere near as good imho.

ba_barabus

JoeA3 wrote: »

errr what? No. They aren't my local dealers.

I just had a poor experience with one of their sales staff last year. VW had nothing to do with it, I just happened to come across a pig ignorant "salesman" when I called into them when passing one day. Aside from that I've heard first hand reports that their service dept leaves a lot to be desired too.

Was it a VW sales person?

ba_barabus

Rob C wrote: »

Yet Frank Keane in Blackrock, nowhere near as good imho.

Agreed.

JoeA3

ba_barabus wrote: »

Was it a VW sales person?

It was. What difference does that make? He could have been selling effing mars bars ffs, I was simply giving an example of a poor customer service experience in said dealership. I've dealt with many different salesmen across all sorts of marques over the years, some good, some poor, but this guy was special.

For what it's worth, the guys at my local VW dealers are excellent. Hence my original point - a good relationship with a dealer and in particular their service dept goes a long way. I find that if they know you and know your car, you'll rarely have any issue re warranty concerns.

ba_barabus

JoeA3 wrote: »

It was. What difference does that make? He could have been selling effing mars bars ffs, I was simply giving an example of a poor customer service experience in said dealership. I've dealt with many different salesmen across all sorts of marques over the years, some good, some poor, but this guy was special.

For what it's worth, the guys at my local VW dealers are excellent. Hence my original point - a good relationship with a dealer and in particular their service dept goes a long way. I find that if they know you and know your car, you'll rarely have any issue re warranty concerns.

For what it's worth he is contractually obliged to be the face of vw.

I'm not suggesting for a second all vw salespeople are all the same but for most the first point of contact is the salesperson. If they aren't up to scratch then for anyone who meets that person vw aren't up to scratch.

Personally speaking I've have a list of family and friends with poor sales experience from vw and extremely poor after sales and myself I've had poor reliability on cars with a full main dealer services . I won't be touching one again.

vintagevrs

Two sides to every story.

Customer calls in with faulty acc sensor that is located on lower front bumper. Diagnosis determines fault caused by impact therefore not under warranty. Customer can't prove it wasn't hit. Same as looking for a new headlight under warranty that was cracked with a stone.

Vw as mentioned before won't take the soldering iron out to fix it, so computer says new parts, coding, calibration etc costs a small fortune.

Customer gets it fixed cheaper else where. May be fine, may be trouble waiting to happen.

This is a safety critical part that will tell the car to do an emergency stop if it thinks there's going to be a collision. You can be sure the customer will be banging on their door if this happens some day.

Bit of a non story to me.

vintagevrs

Ba,

by your logic every company is as good as their worst employee!?

JoeA3

ba_barabus wrote: »

For what it's worth he is contractually obliged to be the face of vw.

I'm not suggesting for a second all vw salespeople are all the same but for most the first point of contact is the salesperson. If they aren't up to scratch then for anyone who meets that person vw aren't up to scratch.

Personally speaking I've have a list of family and friends with poor sales experience from vw and extremely poor after sales and myself I've had poor reliability on cars with a full main dealer services . I won't be touching one again.

so you're not tarring them all with the same brush yet you won't be touching one again? See, I can nit pick through posts here too

You could easily come across a poor salesman / poor after sales service in any dealership of any marque in the country. VW are among the top sellers with one of the biggest dealer networks - there'll always be a few disgruntled punters out there.

Toyotafanboi

When we were Scirocco shopping the other year I found most VW dealers insufferable in fairness.

More interested in taking names and filling out questionares, when it came to the cars the attitude was very take it or leave it.

Nonoperational

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

When we were Scirocco shopping the other year I found most VW dealers insufferable in fairness.

More interested in taking names and filling out questionares, when it came to the cars the attitude was very take it or leave it.

There is a wide variety of salesmen for every marque. I stood in a Lexus dealer for 30 minutes trying to talk to someone, I had very genuine intentions towards a 300h, and I was looked at and ignored a few times before I left.

Anyway, we all well know your opinion of VW at this stage!

Toyotafanboi

Nonoperational wrote: »

Anyway, we all well know your opinion of VW at this stage!

Well I fully intended for the most expensive car i'd ever purchased to be one. It's not that I dont like VW's as a car, I mostly just dont like what the Irish car buyer thinks they stand for or VW's attitide towards their customers.

They are like the good looking girl from school. Everybody want's her and she knows it, she knows she cant **** people over as much as they want and they will keep coming back.

I went to no less than 3 dealers and none would either appraise my trade in nor let me sit in my prospective purchase until I filled out a form with my name, address, telephone number, email address, date of birth etc.

I pointed out to one salesman that the car we were looking at wasn't even close to the advertised spec and he basically asked us to leave.

Sales 101 is about striking up a rapport with the customer and being confident in your product. How any franchise network that size could think the best way to capture customers is with an a4 questionare is beyond me.

Nonoperational

Yeah, I've had my issues with VW dealers, but to be fair the dealer in Cork was immaculate regarding the pre-sale experience. I do agree though, when you are handing over 30-40k (or less) then you should feel at least a bit important to them. I was personally disappointed with the experience after I signed on the dotted line.

Regarding the warranty, I got a goodwill payment on my AC compressor on 5 year old golf before so I don't have any bad experience so far. I hope I won't need to test that in the next 3 years.

Actually I think with PCP you may have a little more leeway. If you were very sure of your ground you could simply tell them you weren't making any more payments until they sorted the issues they were obligated to.

Rob C

Nonoperational wrote: »

Yeah, I've had my issues with VW dealers, but to be fair the dealer in Cork was immaculate regarding the pre-sale experience. I do agree though, when you are handing over 30-40k (or less) then you should feel at least a bit important to them. I was personally disappointed with the experience after I signed on the dotted line.

Regarding the warranty, I got a goodwill payment on my AC compressor on 5 year old golf before so I don't have any bad experience so far. I hope I won't need to test that in the next 3 years.

Actually I think with PCP you may have a little more leeway. If you were very sure of your ground you could simply tell them you weren't making any more payments until they sorted the issues they were obligated to.

That's a tricky one though. The dealer doesn't administer the finance, it's VW Finance or BMW Finance or whoever, a separate, financial services company. The dealer is not linked in reality to the finance companies. Just because it says VW Finance, it doesn't mean the VW dealers are answerable to them. You buy a car on PCP and the finance arm pays the dealer the full price and that's it. The dealer gets the full money and the relationship then is between you and the financial services company.

So a threat like that won't wash with a dealer. Yes, the finance company might have some pull to pressure the dealer, but not too much I would think unless it went so far that Volkswagen AG got personally involved the threatened to pull their franchise from the dealer.

Shocking to hear how some people are treated by dealers. Have to say, in my experience going back 15+ years dealing with Beemer dealers, they've always been spot on. Pre and post sale. Any issues that came up post sale were dealt with quickly and without fuss. You can argue it's because it's a premium brand, but I'm not sure. I think BMW now are very active in managing the authorised dealers. After sale there is a very lengthy post sale grilling by BMW Ireland on how you were treated by the dealer and they cover everything.....Bad marks can really affect that dealer.

Toyota I know have a very good reputation in Ireland as well.

carsfan

I think I've been reading threads like this for years on boards...

It always seems to come down to some people having dreadful experiences and others finding the opposite.
Car dealerships are no different to any other business/service in that what works for me may not for someone else. My doctor/dentist/plumber/car dealer etc. might be highly rated by me but you could find things don't work out at all when you encounter them.
As for car dealers in general I think they have in general become more professional in their attitude but some bigger chains do seem to have systems such as taking your details and going through a sales process they have been trained with. This can be annoying when you know what you want and sometimes know more than the garage guy but it's easier to roll with it then get cross.
With warranty claims if there is a dispute I have found being polite but persistent helps. It's in the dealers interest to help you as most will want to keep your custom. If you go in all guns blazing,losing the cool they may decide your custom is not worth it.

ba_barabus

vintagevrs wrote: »

Ba,

by your logic every company is as good as their worst employee!?

You'll find its the companies that take that approach to it. Hence staff are trained in the corporate way as they're the fave of the company

ba_barabus

JoeA3 wrote: »

so you're not tarring them all with the same brush yet you won't be touching one again? See, I can nit pick through posts here too

You could easily come across a poor salesman / poor after sales service in any dealership of any marque in the country. VW are among the top sellers with one of the biggest dealer networks - there'll always be a few disgruntled punters out there.

I won't be touching a VW again but that's not down to poor sales people. I agree on the the rest. I just found it strange that on one hand you had no issue with VW yet in the same post you went on to say they gave you the worst experience ever.

JoeA3

ba_barabus wrote: »

I won't be touching a VW again but that's not down to poor sales people. I agree on the the rest. I just found it strange that on one hand you had no issue with VW yet in the same post you went on to say they gave you the worst experience ever.

I had one bad experience with one "salesman" in one dealer. I actually received an apology from his boss after the event - I forgot to mention that bit!

Anyway, I didn't let the experience taint my overall impression of the brand, in the same way I haven't paid much attention to the hyperbole surrounding diesel-gate.

Drummerboy08

Jaysus, it's a pretty hard game to please most people.....

Sales people are now required to capture basic information about the customer, this requirement comes from the manufacturer but it's also a basic in terms of any sales process. If you dont have the contact details of the person how can you follow up with them?!

In terms of when this is done, it can be done at the start of the process middle or end. I do agree that refusing to let a customer even sit in a car before taking details is a little mad.

However if a customer is going to refuse to give me a name, address, phone number and possibly email then it doesn't instill too much confidence in me that this person is a serious buyer.

These details are also required for insurance purposes in the event of a test drive and in the event of a speeding fine etc being received.

I personally think it isn't too much to provide these details to a sales person.

ba_barabus

DB out of interest is there a reason why a copy of the drivers license isn't required for a test drive in Ireland? I've always needed it in the UK. It's common practice there from what I understand.

Rowley Birkin QC

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Well I fully intended for the most expensive car i'd ever purchased to be one. It's not that I dont like VW's as a car, I mostly just dont like what the Irish car buyer thinks they stand for or VW's attitide towards their customers.

They are like the good looking girl from school. Everybody want's her and she knows it, she knows she cant **** people over as much as they want and they will keep coming back.

I went to no less than 3 dealers and none would either appraise my trade in nor let me sit in my prospective purchase until I filled out a form with my name, address, telephone number, email address, date of birth etc.

I pointed out to one salesman that the car we were looking at wasn't even close to the advertised spec and he basically asked us to leave.

Sales 101 is about striking up a rapport with the customer and being confident in your product. How any franchise network that size could think the best way to capture customers is with an a4 questionare is beyond me.

What were you looking to drive as a matter of interest?

I work in sales myself (not cars) and what you're describing there is a pretty awful experience.

Toyotafanboi

I work for in sales, non motor too. Or at least I did.

Looking at driving 11/12 reg Sciroccos in main dealers back in 2013/4. Had an 07 Polo to offload on them in the end.

I understand the need to capture info, absolutely, but the way it was performed was with no tact whatsoever. At least try and engage me in the sale first. Approaching with a clipboard is poor practise but it happened in a few dealers.

Toyotafanboi

I work in sales, non motor too. Or at least I did.

Looking at driving 11/12 reg Sciroccos in main dealers back in 2013/4. Had an 07 Polo to offload on them in the end.

I understand the need to capture info, absolutely, but the way it was performed was with no tact whatsoever. At least try and engage me in the sale first. Approaching with a clipboard is poor practise but it happened in a few dealers.

bs2014

I may be judgmental but I think a common theme is the difference between main dealers in urban areas like Dublin and more rural main dealers. My family (from down the country) have bought and test drove numerous cars down through the years and literally you be given a set of keys without even asking you your name....in a lot of cases the sales person wouldn't accompany you. One might argue this is lazy or poor salesmanship....but I know if my parents (and a lot of other rural customers) walked into one of the larger clinical dealers and were met by a questionnaires and insurance forms....clipboards.....sales jargon....fancy coffee.....a dominating sales guy accompanying you on a test drive....there nerves would be shattered and they certainly wouldn't buy. Personally....I'm of a different generation and fully appreciate why dealers take thorough customer details and have put sales process in place.....it just beg the question is there no happy medium. Moral of the story....if you want a more personal layed back purchase to a car...perhaps buy from a smaller rural main dealer. I often wonder why I see many fresh premium cars driving about with non main dealer stickers on them....is this because the main manufacturers have become too clinical and alienated a portion of their customers....or is it purely price driven.....On another note....I haven't bought from FK VW but from my dealings with their sales team I couldn't recommend them highly enough....highly professional and not OTT like my above anology

ei9go

Towards the end of 2014, we were thinking about a top spec Honda Jazz Auto with the panoramic roof.

We went the Honda dealer in Waterford but they didn't have an auto we could drive. I happened to ask the salesman why Honda never sold the Hybrid version in Ireland and received the reply that Honda never made one.

I politely told him he was wrong and he completely lost the plot, voice volume increased by about 6db and he insisted he was right. Anyway we never went back.

So, noticed on Carzone that the Honda dealer in Bray had the exact car we were looking for. As I was driving from Waterford, phoned on the Friday to say I would call on Saturday morning.

When we arrived, the salesman had no keys of the car so we couldn't have a drive, never asked my name or phone number. He looked at the trade in but never heard from him again.