Election

recedite

Zamboni wrote: »

the Social Democrats have claimed and proven they are supporters by voting for the removal of Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 last year and campaiging for pro-choice...

westernfrenzy wrote: »

I'd have loved a Social Democrat candidate here though.

smacl wrote: »

In the absence of any social democrats in the area

Shrap wrote: »

I've no SD candidates here either.

human 19 wrote: »

There are no soc dems in my constituency, but..

Everybody seems to have lot of faith in these "social democrats" but I'm inclined to think they won't be a party for very long. Their views are very disparate, with Shortall being ex-Labour and Donnelly being FG in all but name. There is no point Donnelly joining FG though, as Wicklow returned 3 FG TDs last time, and there's probably only room for 2 this time, even without him.
I'm assuming they get some state funding or extra Dail speaking time by calling themselves a party? As opposed to being independents.

I'll have the chance to vote for Stephen Donnelly who is a SD candidate, but I won't be doing it.
When Shortall proposed removal of Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act, Donnelly, didn't even bother showing up for the vote.

Here he is proudly wrangling state money to buy convent lands from the nuns, for a convent school founded by the same nuns, whose running costs are paid for by the state, but whose ethos is still under religious control afterwards.
So, no net change overall, except for a large transfer of public money over to the religious order.

Then I emailed him several times over the issue of another new secondary school built by Dept of Education, and handed over to CoI patronage, which promptly introduced religious discrimination as part of its admission policy, in blatant violation of the terms under which it originally tendered for the patronage. No response from Donnelly;not interested.

Well he can f**k off now. It'll be very tight for him this time, and hopefully the loss of my vote will make the difference.

Zamboni

I can understand your frustration at not getting a response.
But this is one guy that has effectively no resources behind him.
He is disgusted that he had to baptise his own kids to get them into a school.

And to be fair, FG hate this guy. An articulate politician in a suit who can tear gaping holes in their economic policys that isn't a Sinn Feiner or an AAA :pac:

recedite

Zamboni wrote: »

I can understand your frustration at not getting a response.

No need to misrepresent it as a personal insult kind of thing. I mentioned several genuine issues there. I don't care whether I get a personal response. I care about actions, they speak louder than words.

As the inimitable Christopher Hitchens said "The only people truly bound by election promises are the voters who believe them."

But this is one guy that has effectively no resources behind him.

TD's salary, secretarial allowances etc and heres a list of further allowances produced by none other than Catherine Murphy of the same party.

IMO if politicians got less financial reward we would have a much better class of candidate to choose from. People who aren't just in the game for the money.

He is disgusted that he had to baptise his own kids to get them into a school.

Yeah right. AFAIK he returned from abroad around 2008, the same year as the local ET primary school first opened (no thanks to him) And he has been a big supporter of the RC school, as already mentioned, by giving a lot of your money to the nuns, so that they would not take away the kids playground. Not that there was much chance of that happening anyway; they just wanted a few bob and saw their chance to get it.

Zamboni

Fair enough.

expectationlost

wp_rathead wrote: »

I do like the sound of Social Democrats I have to say - they are basically what Labour Party SHOULD be

their policy promises are just promises

Shrap

expectationlost wrote: »

there policy promises are just promises

Just like everyone else's are too. Jesus, they'll say anything :mad:* Give em a few years in opposition to hopefully come out with a clear mandate and some rational policies and I'd say they could be in with a chance of changing something. We're all looking for change, amirite? Well, we sure as fcuk aren't going to find it in the two parties of "effers" we usually have.



* Had a good neighbour of mine around here today, bringing one of the FG candidate's sidekicks around to shake the hands and hand out the leaflets. Tried telling me he'd done a lot for the school. "So have I", says I, and then launched into my prepared speech about the 96% RCC state schooling. Was expecting them to promise to fix the 10 new potholes that the council digger made last week, but I may have driven them off too quickly so sadly I didn't have the chance to reply with "Yes, but what can you do for me......I mean, the country? :rolleyes:". What a steaming pile of gobsh1tery this place is, grrrr.

Absolam

Shrap wrote: »

* Had a good neighbour of mine around here today, bringing one of the FG candidate's sidekicks around to shake the hands and hand out the leaflets. Tried telling me he'd done a lot for the school. "So have I", says I, and then launched into my prepared speech about the 96% RCC state schooling. Was expecting them to promise to fix the 10 new potholes that the council digger made last week, but I may have driven them off too quickly so sadly I didn't have the chance to reply with "Yes, but what can you do for me......I mean, the country? :rolleyes:". What a steaming pile of gobsh1tery this place is, grrrr.

Maybe open with the potholes next time? Seems like something a local TD might exert some influence on without consulting the whip anyways....

Shrap

Absolam wrote: »

Maybe open with the potholes next time? Seems like something a local TD might exert some influence on without consulting the whip anyways....

I was trying not to open with cynicism, but yes, that's kind of my point The poor side-kick looked like she was about to cry already though, so getting sardonic with her would have been a cruelty too far....

Cabaal

Spotted that Paddy (I hate marriage equality) Manning is running in Carlow/Kilkenny, he's been busy putting up posters in the last few days.
He's totally against repeal the 8th (surprise, surprise!)

Here's a few of his positions:

Yes, I will canvass outside the church gates of all faiths, respectfully and on public property. I believe in a pluralist republic, not a faith hostile secular state, the right to life from conception to death, the right of parents to educate their children in their own faith or non faith.
Politicians should not make those choices for us, you know better.

Your politicians think its green to make poor people pay so rich people with electric cars can have free electricity. We must have the abolition of all the subsidies which make your electricity bill more expensive.

The Public Service Obligation (PSO) Levy for electricity has been set at €5.69 (including VAT). That's nearly €6 per month the government steals from you to support its hopeless electricity cases.

We need to tell them to take their hands out of our pockets and to pray to St Jude for their cronies!

I'm against all efforts to dehumanise some children. The Pro-Life 8th Amendment is a vital part of our constitution. All who advocate its removal do so to make some children much less equal in the eyes of the law . Keep the constitution's Pro-Life protection.

His facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/paddymanningforcarlowkilkenny/

Cabaal

Spotted that Paddy (I hate marriage equality) Manning is running in Carlow/Kilkenny, he's been busy putting up posters in the last few days.
He's totally against repeal the 8th (surprise, surprise!)

Here's a few of his positions:

Yes, I will canvass outside the church gates of all faiths, respectfully and on public property. I believe in a pluralist republic, not a faith hostile secular state, the right to life from conception to death, the right of parents to educate their children in their own faith or non faith.
Politicians should not make those choices for us, you know better.

Your politicians think its green to make poor people pay so rich people with electric cars can have free electricity. We must have the abolition of all the subsidies which make your electricity bill more expensive.

The Public Service Obligation (PSO) Levy for electricity has been set at €5.69 (including VAT). That's nearly €6 per month the government steals from you to support its hopeless electricity cases.

We need to tell them to take their hands out of our pockets and to pray to St Jude for their cronies!

I'm against all efforts to dehumanise some children. The Pro-Life 8th Amendment is a vital part of our constitution. All who advocate its removal do so to make some children much less equal in the eyes of the law . Keep the constitution's Pro-Life protection.

His facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/paddymanningforcarlowkilkenny/

PopePalpatine

Cabaal wrote: »

Spotted that Paddy (I hate marriage equality) Manning is running in Carlow/Kilkenny, he's been busy putting up posters in the last few days.
He's totally against repeal the 8th (surprise, surprise!)

Here's a few of his positions:








His facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/paddymanningforcarlowkilkenny/

Oh boy, I always wanted the US Republican Party to show up in Ireland! :rolleyes:

The Randy Riverbeast

"Because you know better"

I thought we didn't a few months ago Paddy?

Shrap

"Because you know better" - Paddy Manning,
News Personality

*splutter* Yes Paddy, yes we do know better :pac:

Kiwi in IE

http://www.whichcandidate.ie/

That is really interesting! I started off ticking education and abortion and got Mick Wallace 100%, Brendon Howlin, Aoife Byrne or Leonard Kelly (75%).

Went back and entered every issue and got Mick Wallace and Aoife Byrne 67%, Leonard Kelly 52% and Brendon Howlin 48%.

I probably won't vote for Wallace. I like him, but there is too much question around his credibility and good standing. Aoife Byrne is clearly with the wrong party, she has very sound opinions but I wouldn't vote for FF if my life depended on it. That leaves Brendon Howlin or Leonard Kelly. My matches with both are only around the 50% mark but the answers they gave that differed from mine, I'm entirely comfortable with, were more left leaning than my answers, and were all on issues I'm a bit unsure about, or where my position is in no way absolute anyway (justice, rent, traveller accommodation, wind farms, refugees, European integration).

I knew I would be voting either Labour or Social Democrats anyway, but it's nice to be able to confirm that they are a match.

Where I differed with Howlin and Kelly on abortion, was that I want it on demand up to a certain number of weeks, and Howlin ticked 'in cases or rape and FFA', Kelly ticked 'none of the above'. Not sure about 'none of the above' but I can live with Howlins's position, and given the way this country is, I imagine it's the best we can hope for until the RCC fan club generation die off a bit.

Kiwi in IE

I've just seen that Brendon Howlin voted against the proposal to ban religious discrimination in school admission policies! WTF? This is inconsistent with his answers in the above survey. Will email him and ask his reasoning. Otherwise it's Social Democrats once I've clarified Kelly's position on abortion.

recedite

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I've just seen that Brendon Howlin voted against the proposal to ban religious discrimination in school admission policies! WTF? This is inconsistent with his answers...

A politician acting inconsistently with his promises?? Well I never...

But seriously, this is because he was in a govt. party, and party members will normally vote against a bill proposed by an opposition party. Just out of divilment.

Speaking of divilment, Paddy Manning may be right about the electric cars. How do they zoom around with no noise and no exhaust fumes? It must be the work of the devil.

Kiwi in IE

I sent this to Mr Howlin;

Hi Brendan,

I'm am a slightly undecided voter. I have completed this survey http://www.whichcandidate.ie/ and going by those answers, yourself and Leonard Kelly are the only options that I can live with. I have a couple of queries for you both, prior to deciding who gets 1 and 2. What I want to ask you is as follows;

1. You have indicated that you are against 'faith formation' in one particular religion in schools, and discrimination in school admission policies. However you voted against a proposal to remove religious discrimination against non-Catholics back in December. Would you mind explaining the reasons for your vote? As an atheist parent of a 7 year old child who is in a Catholic school, because there are no other options in our area, this a massive issue for my family. Our son hits communion year next year and is the only child who will be sitting out. I cannot satisfactorily remove him from 'faith formation', because I have been told that it 'permeates the school day'. If nothing can be done immediately about patronage, due to land ownership, would it be possible to legislate for 'faith formation' to be restricted to one end or the other of a school day, therefore allowing non Catholic parents to bring their children in late or collect them early? And/or the provision of alternative supervision be made mandatory for parents who cannot make arrangements for late/early collection. I find the current situation highly unsatisfactory, and quite frankly an infringement on my families right to religious freedom.

2. Abortion. My position on abortion is that it should be on demand up to a certain number of weeks (for me personally 12 weeks is about where I am most comfortable). I also believe there should be an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy at any stage (early delivery at later stages) when the woman's life or long term health are at risk, however I am realistic enough to realise that this is probably not going to happen for at least another generation due to the way this country is. Personally I find it appalling that as a living, breathing, mother, wife, daughter and sister of child bearing age, that the state would put a foetus before my long term health and potential ability to fulfil my current responsibilities to my existing child. You have stated in the survey that you favour abortion being allowed in certain circumstances, the survey limited this to rape and FFA, but I would like to know in what (if any) other circumstances would you be in favour of allowing abortion?

I am of the opinion that Labour have done a good job currently and historically, particularly in attempting to bring Ireland into line with the rest of the first world in issues of social freedom and equality. I am certainly leaning toward giving yourself my #1 vote but would like clarification on the above queries first.

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards


Kiwi in IE

expectationlost

Panicker and Roe still campaiging trying to get answers from candidates http://voteforequality.ie/ had a event in TCD the other day https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1666208656982319&id=1648369758766209

KingBrian2

I'll be voting Green and I urge anyone that cares about energy independence and waste management efficiency to vote for them also. While I also believe the current FG/Labour gvt have done a good job, reducing the National Debt, bringing in foreign investment and kept the welfare system.

expectationlost

FG http://www.finegael.ie/__uuid/b5055220-ec96-4f03-b18a-4506e8d3119c/manifesto.pdf

3. We Will Improve Parental Choice
and School Diversity.
Uniformity is the enemy of innovation, change and
ongoing improvement. Resources go further when
users of public services choose and shape their
delivery, and are well informed about quality. Fine
Gael supports real parental choice within a more
diverse system of school patronage.

More Multi-Denominational and Non-Denominational
Schools: Fine Gael will strengthen parental choice
and diversity in our schools system, reflecting the
need in modern Ireland for new forms of multidenominational
schools have been established. Fine Gael will continue
to increase the number of non-denominational and
multi-denominational schools with a view to reaching
300 by 2030.



A road map has been agreed for a phased transfer of
Catholic schools to new patrons, where the support
of communities exists. Fine Gael will work with all
stakeholders to facilitate this process. Since 2011, 49
new multi-denominational primary and post primary

Protecting the Denominational Ethos of Schools:
Consistent with expanding the choices available to
parents, we will safeguard the right of parents to send
their children to denominational schools that offer a
distinct religious ethos.
Taxpayer Support for Fee-Charging Schools: There
will be no further discrimination in taxpayer support
for fee-charging schools. The reduction in the pupilteacher
ratio in September 2016 will benefit all schools.
Small Schools: We will not close any school against
the wishes of parents. Fine Gael will, however, provide
positive incentives for small schools amalgamation,
such as additional capital works. Within 3 months, we
will commence a review of the teacher appointment
thresholds for 3 and 4-teacher schools.

2. We Will Strengthen Local Decision
Making, Leadership, Innovation and
Accountability.
School principals, teachers and parents are in
the best position to drive reforms that improve
educational outcomes and to prioritise resources.
Central Government already micro manages too
many decisions in our schools, from curriculum design
and timetabling to minor capital works. Our Plan will
give more decision-making power, responsibility and
flexibility to schools and their communities.
Local Decision Making: We will extend, until May
2016, the period of consultation with parents, schools
and other stakeholders on the “Advancing School
Autonomy in the Irish School System” research paper
published by the Department of Education and Skills
in December 2015. On foot of this consultation, we
will transform the School Admissions Bill agreed
by the current Government, but not yet passed by
the Oireachtas, into a new School Admissions and
Excellence Bill.
This Bill, alongside a revised admissions framework,
will give new freedoms to schools on staff deployment,
performance management, curriculum design and
other matters. As part of this consultation, we will
examine the structure of boards of management, with
a view to ensuring accountability and transparency
as well as support mechanisms for these voluntary
boards and parents. The role and power of an
Ombudsman for Education, to whom a parent could
complain and appeal on foot of a decision by a board
of management, will be examined by the Oireachtas
Committee to ensure its consistency with the need to
ensure better local decision making and accountability
to parents.
Local Education Clusters: Fine Gael will incentivise
voluntary school participation in new “Local Education
Clusters” that encourage schools to improve student
outcomes by sharing best practice and school
improvement experiences, foster collaborative in and
out-of-hours initiatives, staff peer mentoring and
leadership, and that allow for cost reductions through
economies of scale.
Schools Excellence Fund: We will establish a new €50m
Schools Excellence Fund, which rewards collaborative
approaches driven by schools and by parents
themselves, aimed at improving school outcomes
through the teaching of subjects such as Maths,
Science and Technology, key life skills programmes,
and pupil retention initiatives. Applications that seek
to tackle educational disadvantage will be prioritised.
Outside bodies, such as business and higher education
institutions, may collaborate with second level schools
as part of this initiative.
School Leadership: School principals will have the
support of Fine Gael to introduce reforms that drive
up educational standards. Budget 2016 increased
the number of release days provided to teaching
principals. Teaching principals within Education
Clusters will be resourced to spend one day per week
focusing on improving school outcomes. We will also
establish a pool of experts (educators, employers,
accountants, business leaders, IT specialists etc.) to
assist school initiatives that drive better outcomes in
schools. Newly appointed school principals will take
a preparation course in advance of taking up their
role, and will be expected to take regular leadership
courses under CPD.
Financial Certainty: We will set out capitation rates to
schools on a rolling 3-year basis allowing for forward
planning. School management will have the decisionmaking
power to allocate these resources as they
deem appropriate, including to posts of responsibility
More School Accountability for Performance: With
more autonomy will come more school accountability,
to both parents and taxpayers. Parents have a right
to information about their children’s educational
performance. Fine Gael will, within 12 months,
complete a review of options for standardised testing
in our schools, with a view to implementing a single
model by 2018, aimed at delivering clear performance
information for teachers, parents and students.
In the interim, we will require schools to publish annual
reports, taking into account test results, facilities,
extra-curricular activities, ICT resources, and special
education resources. Schools, together with parents,
will set targets against which they will be reviewed.
Self-evaluation will be strengthened and will be the
basis on which schools are inspected. Fine Gael will
also make available – at the request of school parents
and patrons – “School Support Teams” with special
powers to turn around failing schools.
More Effective Complaints Procedures for Parents:
Real accountability for performance also requires a
credible complaints procedure for parents, within
a stronger regulatory framework for teaching. We
will commence, the “Fitness to Teach” provisions of
the Teaching Council Act and – a decade after its
enactment – complete a review of the Teaching Council
Act with a view to strengthening the independence
and effectiveness of the Teaching Council.

less responsibilty on schools from government and allow schools to create futher layers to concrete catholicism into school under guise of innovation just like the UK

recedite

Basically, regarding schools, FG promises all things to all people.
Only one thing really stands out there; increased taxpayer subsidies for elite private schools.

Hotblack Desiato

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I probably won't vote for Wallace.

You probably won't be voting for anyone else either, unless you have Irish or British citizenship! :eek:

I say probably given the FUBAR state of the election register, there are no doubt tens of thousands of people on it who aren't entitled to be.

Kiwi in IE

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You probably won't be voting for anyone else either, unless you have Irish or British citizenship! :eek:

Have always been able to vote as came to country with Bristish citizenship. My Dad is originally from Glasgow. Immigrated to NZ when he was 3. Has proved very handy

Hotblack Desiato

Arra, shure yer practically one of us then

expectationlost

Equality in Education
Labour Party Manifesto
https://www.labour.ie/manifesto/equality-in-education/

More multi-denominational schools and an end to baptism requirements

A growing number of parents want their children to experience multi-denominational education. The situation where parents feel forced to baptise their children to ensure a school place must come to an end.

Labour in Government established the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism and has overseen a 43% increase in the number of multi-denominational schools.

Our plan for the next five years:

Provide a further 100 multi-denominational schools by 2021
Publish a White Paper building on the report of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism to set out long-term policy in this area
Amend the Equal Status Act to ensure that schools prioritise children from the local community rather than focusing on their religion
Include an exception for minority faith schools that serve diverse communities

Publication cover - Labour Manifesto 2016 Download the full manifesto in PDF format (9.3MB). https://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_manifesto_2016.pdf

has to be seen in context of FG policy above (and other possible coalition partners) can they really amend equal status act?

sheep?

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I've just seen that Brendon Howlin voted against the proposal to ban religious discrimination in school admission policies! WTF? This is inconsistent with his answers in the above survey. Will email him and ask his reasoning. Otherwise it's Social Democrats once I've clarified Kelly's position on abortion.

I'm in the same boat as yourself, in Wexford and trying hard to find a credible candidate. ("HAHAHAHAHAHA" - Rest of Ireland)

Cheers for sending that to Howlin, would you mind posting a reply if you get one?

expectationlost

Anseo review of manisfestos (before LP published) http://www.anseo.net/ge16-and-primary-education-religion-in-schools/ though im not quite sure what his criteria actually means

Shrap

sheep? wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as yourself, in Wexford and trying hard to find a credible candidate. ("HAHAHAHAHAHA" - Rest of Ireland)

Cheers for sending that to Howlin, would you mind posting a reply if you get one?

Just to clarify.....I assume you mean "HAHAHAHAHAHA, so are we" - Rest of Ireland ?

Huntergonzo

Would the Social Democrats be the most socially liberal party in Ireland? I mean will they activity campaign to repel the 8th?, call for abortion on demand?, end religious patronage of publicly funded schools? etc etc. Their website does seem to point out that they do hold some liberal views but what is their main selling point, are they a liberal party or not?

I'm in Meath East and they're running a candidate here but I know nothing about her, apart from the fact that she doesn't stand a chance of getting elected of course.

seamus

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Would the Social Democrats be the most socially liberal party in Ireland? I mean will they activity campaign to repel the 8th?, call for abortion on demand?, end religious patronage of publicly funded schools? etc etc. Their website does seem to point out that they do hold some liberal views but what is their main selling point, are they a liberal party or not?

They're covering the centre-left standpoint, which has traditionally been vacant or small in Ireland. The Greens and Labour have always stood in that space, but we've never had a large or cohesive party in that space in the same way that FG/FF stand in centre-right.

They're going for the "socially liberal, financially responsible" vote, which is probably the biggest vote out there, once you can convince people who are afraid to pick a "new" party.

At the moment, voters are more concerned about the financial aspect rather than the social one, so all of the parties will focus most of their time on that.