USA b-2 visa refused! Can I still travel on the waiver program?

1gunsnroses

Hi guys just wondering if I can still travel to the states for a holiday less than 90 days! I was refused the b-2 visa on regards not having enough ties with my home country Ireland! I have duel Australian and Irish citizenship. It was only refused last week! Will I have problems with immigration at the airport? Thanks

Stheno

You'd have to apply for an ESTA online and that would probably flag up the b2 refusal so you then might end up having to go to the embassy

Ruu

You will need to apply for the ESTA. The embassy may just tell you that it is up to the officers at immigration day of travel I think.

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

You'd have to apply for an ESTA online and that would probably flag up the b2 refusal so you then might end up having to go to the embassy

Hi thanks! I have the esta on my Oz passport from last year could I travel on that?

Speedwell

No. You cannot travel on the VWP if you have applied for a visa and been refused. Do not assume that US immigration will overlook this, because if you are denied entry or deported, it will make it even more difficult to get a visa next time you apply. Do not attempt to travel using your Australian credentials. Immigration will know you are the same person.

Try the ESTA route, though you may need to reapply for the visa. Try to gather more information about your ties to Ireland (property ownership, a letter from your job that specifies when you are expected to return, dependent family members staying in Ireland awaiting your return, investments in Ireland, etc.) and reapply. You may have better luck next time. I admit that I would have a lot of trouble proving ties to Ireland myself, because I am a renter, my employer is based in England (I am a one-person Irish subsidiary), I personally have no Irish relatives (they're all my husband's), and I have been in Ireland less than two years.

(I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I have a lot of experience with this, as the American wife of an Irish citizen who successfully applied for a green card for him.)

1gunsnroses

Speedwell wrote: »

No. You cannot travel on the VWP if you have applied for a visa and been refused. Do not assume that US immigration will overlook this, because if you are denied entry or deported, it will make it even more difficult to get a visa next time you apply. Do not attempt to travel using your Australian credentials. Immigration will know you are the same person.

Try the ESTA route, though you may need to reapply for the visa. Try to gather more information about your ties to Ireland (property ownership, a letter from your job that specifies when you are expected to return, dependent family members staying in Ireland awaiting your return, investments in Ireland, etc.) and reapply. You may have better luck next time. I admit that I would have a lot of trouble proving ties to Ireland myself, because I am a renter, my employer is based in England (I am a one-person Irish subsidiary), I personally have no Irish relatives (they're all my husband's), and I have been in Ireland less than two years.

(I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I have a lot of experience with this, as the American wife of an Irish citizen who successfully applied for a green card for him.)

Thanks for the reply speedwell. But that seems to be a little over the top. As I will have a return ticket and never had any convictions or overstayed my time there before!

Speedwell

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Thanks for the reply speedwell. But that seems to be a little over the top. As I will have a return ticket and never had any convictions or overstayed my time there before!

heh, I know, they are so strict! But it doesn't matter, you don't want to chance being denied entry just because you think you are an exception... trust me, you are not going to be the first person to have thought of it.

1gunsnroses

Speedwell wrote: »

heh, I know, they are so strict! But it doesn't matter, you don't want to chance being denied entry just because you think you are an exception... trust me, you are not going to be the first person to have thought of it.

So who would I get in touch with to finalise what you are saying? I can't really call anyone as regards gaining entry

Speedwell

I learned what I told you from US expat and US immigrant forums, especially britishexpats.com/forum (they will answer your questions even if you are not British). But the law has not changed. A good overview is here: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/my-us-tourist-visa-refused-what-can-i.html

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

So who would I get in touch with to finalise what you are saying? I can't really call anyone as regards gaining entry

Apply for an ESTA on your IRish passport and see if it is approved.

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

Apply for an ESTA on your IRish passport and see if it is approved.

Apparently that is not the thing to do as it only causes confusion! Only one passport should have the esta on it

1gunsnroses

Has anyone else been in this scenario?thanks

1gunsnroses

What happens if I book flights and arrive at airport will I be immediately rejected? Thanks

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

What happens if I book flights and arrive at airport will I be immediately rejected? Thanks

Without an ESTA, yes on your Irish passport.
On your Australian passport it may show up that you are the same person who had a visa refused and immigration may not allow you through.

When you applied for the ESTA on your Australian passport did you include your Irish passport details as it asks?

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

Without an ESTA, yes on your Irish passport.
On your Australian passport it may show up that you are the same person who had a visa refused and immigration may not allow you through.

When you applied for the ESTA on your Australian passport did you include your Irish passport details as it asks?

I'm not sure if I did stheno! But my Australia one is still valid. I'm just wondering will I be ok with thatðŸ˜

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

I'm not sure if I did stheno! But my Australia one is still valid. I'm just wondering will I be ok with thatðŸ˜

How many times on this thread have you been told that you may not be? Maybe contact the embassy?

http://dublin.usembassy.gov/non-immigrant_visas/how-to-apply-for-a-non-immigrant-visa.html

1gunsnroses

It's still hard to know

steve-o

You applied for a B-2 which suggests that you planned to stay for more than 90 days, so you may have difficulty convincing them that you won't overstay. Don't try using your Irish passport instead. They aren't that stupid.

1gunsnroses

steve-o wrote: »

You applied for a B-2 which suggests that you planned to stay for more than 90 days, so you may have difficulty convincing them that you won't overstay. Don't try using your Irish passport instead. They aren't that stupid.

Well my Australian passport I will be using as that has the esta on it. And I will be booking within the 90 days so after that I don't know what will happen thanks

LXFlyer

For the love of God just contact the embassy - no one here is going to be able to give you definitive advice other than that.

All this nonsense about using one passport rather than the other - do you seriously think that they don't cross-check?

You are (to put it bluntly) a fool if you do.

If you want to risk ruining a holiday that's your prerogative, but you can solve this simply by getting in touch directly with them.

1gunsnroses

lxflyer wrote: »

For the love of God just contact the embassy - no one here is going to be able to give you definitive advice other than that.

All this nonsense about using one passport rather than the other - do you seriously think that they don't cross-check?

You are (to put it bluntly) a fool if you do.

If you want to risk ruining a holiday that's your prerogative, but you can solve this simply by getting in touch directly with them.

You obviously don't realise you can't talk directly to anyone in the embassy

LXFlyer

1gunsnroses wrote: »

You obviously don't realise you can't talk directly to anyone in the embassy

Get in touch by email?

Not contacting them could result in your holiday being ruined.

It's up to you if you want to risk that.

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

You obviously don't realise you can't talk directly to anyone in the embassy

Did you even read the link I gave up above as to how to schedule and appointment with the ESTA people in the embassy? Or are you just here to be told what you want to hear?

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

Did you even read the link I gave up above as to how to schedule and appointment with the ESTA people in the embassy? Or are you just here to be told what you want to hear?

Yes mate but I have a valid current esta so why would I need to go for another interview

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Yes mate but I have a valid current esta so why would I need to go for another interview

Use it as a means to establish if your current esta is still valid given your recent visa refusal.

Marcusm

The ESTA is not a guarantee of entry under the Visa Waiver Program; it is simply a method introduced post 9/11 to ensure that the US gets information in advance of the flight taking off. See this link; it clearly identifies that US CBP are apt to look for dual nationals. Given that you had both nationalities prior to applying for the B2, I assume that you had to disclose the existence of both passports meaning that, if they are acting efficient;y, they will already have flagged up both passports for a visa refusal making a VWP entry fraught with difficulty.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1097/~/previously-denied-a-visa-or-immigration-benefit

Marcusm

The ESTA is not a guarantee of entry under the Visa Waiver Program; it is simply a method introduced post 9/11 to ensure that the US gets information in advance of the flight taking off. See this link; it clearly identifies that US CBP are apt to look for dual nationals. Given that you had both nationalities prior to applying for the B2, I assume that you had to disclose the existence of both passports meaning that, if they are acting efficient;y, they will already have flagged up both passports for a visa refusal making a VWP entry fraught with difficulty.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1097/~/previously-denied-a-visa-or-immigration-benefit

1gunsnroses

Thanks for your reply Marcus the best advice so far! I wonder what would happen if I booked flights and went to the airport would I need proof of plans

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Thanks for your reply Marcus the best advice so far! I wonder what would happen if I booked flights and went to the airport would I need proof of plans

No on the basis of the visa refusal they could just refuse to allow you entry

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

No on the basis of the visa refusal they could just refuse to allow you entry

Why are you so negative

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Why are you so negative

I'd term it being realistic, you've now had several people tell you that turning up at the airport is risky, yet you refuse to believe it. I've travelled work wise to the States and Canada and just the run of the mill questions are enough without being flagged as having had a visa application rejected.

What age are you? Why do you think that just rocking up to the airport with passport number two magically means they won't make the connection or it's not in their systems already?

Do you realise how it will look to them? 1gunsroses was rejected for a more permanent visa, and is now travelling to the US on a "holiday"

This is those guys bread and butter.

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

I'd term it being realistic, you've now had several people tell you that turning up at the airport is risky, yet you refuse to believe it. I've travelled work wise to the States and Canada and just the run of the mill questions are enough without being flagged as having had a visa application rejected.

What age are you? Why do you think that just rocking up to the airport with passport number two magically means they won't make the connection or it's not in their systems already?

Do you realise how it will look to them? 1gunsroses was rejected for a more permanent visa, and is now travelling to the US on a "holiday"

This is those guys bread and butter.

No all I want to know is could I get in on this holiday visa, if I can't that is fine.

shocksy

1gunsnroses wrote: »

No all I want to know is could I get in on this holiday visa, if I can't that is fine.

As already explained by others, you need to contact the US Embassy for clarification. No one on this forum can say YES you will gain entry.

With your recent visa refusal and dual passports, you will be flagged up for questioning and as you wanted a more permanent visa and that was denied, they will think your ''holiday'' is just another way to enter the country and overstay your 90 days. I wouldn't book a flight if I were you until I had spoken to someone in the US Embassy, and even then, it will still be down to the discretion of the CBP agent on the day whether he or she wants to admit you.

coylemj

1gunsnroses wrote: »

No all I want to know is could I get in on this holiday visa, if I can't that is fine.

It's just not worth the risk. You book and pay for your flights, you show up at US pre-clearance in Dublin or Shannon and there is a serious risk (some would say high probability) that they will refuse you entry to the US for any or all of the reasons that you've been given here. That means you go home and you are at the complete loss of what you paid for the flights.

It says again and again on the US immigration websites that if you are refused a visa, you are not eligible for the visa waiver program which in turn means that you can't use an ESTA, even if you have one.

Worth the risk? If you think so then you're a fool. Contact the embassy.

schemingbohemia

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Thanks for your reply Marcus the best advice so far! I wonder what would happen if I booked flights and went to the airport would I need proof of plans

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Why are you so negative

You really really don't get it do you?

Here's what to do, as you only want to hear what you want to hear.

Spend a grand on a flight, go to the airport, get refused at airport trying your Oz passport. Come back here and cry.

spurious

Or...go to the embassy as suggested and apply for a visa. You just have to convince them you are not going to stay.

1gunsnroses

Does anyone here have a direct phone number to esta as I can't seem to get through to speaking with anyone thanks

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Does anyone here have a direct phone number to esta as I can't seem to get through to speaking with anyone thanks

You need to use the form I linked to, to book an appointment

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

You need to use the form I linked to, to book an appointment

I checked up my Oz esta and it's still valid

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

I checked up my Oz esta and it's still valid

It's not now that you've had a visa refusal as has been said a few times.

To contact the embassy, click the link to the form I posted, and fill out an application to make an appointment with them to discuss your situation

1gunsnroses

Just found this on a U.S. Embassy site, no need to book an interview just show up at airport with credentials to return home should be sufficient but still no guarantee

Stheno

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Just found this on a U.S. Embassy site, no need to book an interview just show up at airport with credentials to return home should be sufficient but still no guarantee

Eh, didn't you post that you were refused the permanent visa as you couldn't demonstrate sufficient ties to Ireland?

Did you read what the link you just posted says?

1gunsnroses

Stheno wrote: »

Eh, didn't you post that you were refused the permanent visa as you couldn't demonstrate sufficient ties to Ireland?

Did you read what the link you just posted says?

Ya I thought about it and I should have enough ties here in Ireland for them to accept

cml387

Let me tell you of a colleague of mine.
He travels on business and has been to the US lots of times, all quite legit.

This particular time he went via Canada to the US border.

Asked why he was entering the States he explained he was going for meetings.

Purely arbitrarily the immigration decided that he was depriving an American of a job, was refused entry and deported.

It took time and a lot of money to get him re-admitted.

My point is that even the most straightforward arrangement can go wrong if you get the wrong person.
They don't mess around, and are real mean.

goingnowhere

If you have been rejected for any form of Visa for the US, you MUST apply and visit the embassy in person for interview for any future travel to obtain a Visa. Talking to someone is not going to remove this requirement

There is NO way out of this, the US apply the rules in full, all the time, to everyone. The US runs one of the toughest border control operations you are likely to find and even folks with all the right paperwork get refused at the whim of a CBP officer. No one has the right of entry, its entirely at the discretion of the US authorities.

If you show up on the day likely you will find yourself in 'Secondary' while they figure out what to do with you and most likely it will be refusal and send you home.

coylemj

cml387 wrote: »

.....

This particular time he went via Canada to the US border.

......

Purely arbitrarily the immigration decided that he was depriving an American of a job, was refused entry and deported.

Pedantic correction - he was not 'deported' since he hadn't yet entered the US - he was refused entry, period. Same as will probably happen the OP since he is determined to ignore every last piece of advice he is getting on this thread and on the duplicate thread he has over in the United Stated forum.

1gunsnroses

coylemj wrote: »

Pedantic correction - he was not 'deported' since he hadn't yet entered the US - he was refused entry, period. Same as will probably happen the OP since he is determined to ignore every last piece of advice he is getting on this thread and on the duplicate thread he has over in the United Stated forum.

Didn't you read this

spurious

I wouldn't chance it on the strength of someone being 'generally satisfied'. I would go to the embassy and get a visa and be sure.

coylemj

Either this thread is a complete wind-up or we are dealing with someone who is totally impervious to friendly advice from people who understand how the system works.

OP, buy your flights and chance it.

HeidiHeidi

OP first off, I know nothing about US Immigration and their foibles - but if you put half the effort into engaging with them that you've put into researching arguments to contradict posters who clearly DO know what they're talking about then this thread could have been closed days ago!

Take your chances by all means - but please do come back here and let us know how you got on!

RiseToMe

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Ya I thought about it and I should have enough ties here in Ireland for them to accept

So you thought about it? That's grand so, don't worry about the immigration officers opinion and their process.

You were already refused a visa on the basis that they didn't feel you had sufficient ties to Ireland, so unless you buy a house or something between now and your trip the immigration officials are likely to still think you don't have sufficient ties and therefore refuse you entry.

Your Australian ESTA is no longer valid as you've been refused a visa, it doesn't matter which passport you applied for it on or which has the ESTA.