First Day of Spring

Costosa

Today is finally the first day of spring, also St Brigid's Day. It's been a long cold and dark winter, thankfully the days are getting longer and not so cold.

Duggy747

Ah yes, Spring.

droidman123

Costosa wrote: »

Today is finally the first day of spring, also St Brigid's Day. It's been a long cold and dark winter, thankfully the days are getting longer and not so cold.

What country are you living in? It certainly hasnt been a cold winter here in ireland,in fact it has been one of the mildest since records began.

jamesbere

Always felt 1st of March was more the first day of spring in this country, still get wintry weather in February

kneemos

droidman123 wrote: »

What country are you living in? It certainly hasnt been a cold winter here in ireland,in fact it has been one of the mildest since records began.

Hasn't been long either.Two months!

Speak Now

Meteorologically winter is measured from December to February so one month left.

Graces7

No it's not...March is that, the 23rd or therabouts..

meeeeh

Graces7 wrote: »

No it's not...March is that, the 23rd or therabouts..

Yes it's some time around 20th of March on equinox. Summer starts on the longest day of the year and winter on the shortest. Atumn is equinox again.

But my division is 1st of March for spring, 1st of June for summer, 1st of September for autumn and 1st of December for winter. And the only scientific foundation for that is : because I said so.

Badly Drunk Boy

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't believe in seasons!

Badly Drunk Boy

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes it's some time around 20th of March on equinox. Summer starts on the longest day of the year and winter on the shortest. Atumn is equinox again.

But my division is 1st of March for spring, 1st of June for summer, 1st of September for autumn and 1st of December for winter. And the only scientific foundation for that is : because I said so.

If we're going to get season-ist, you say that if the summer solstice is Midsummer, the the vernal equinox in March is 'Midspring'. And if Spring is three months long, then Spring starts a month and a half before the vernal equinox.


However, I don't really care because I don't believe in seasons.

I am quite a creature of routine - the changing of the seasons always makes me feel humble and small. I do my morning run at the same time every morning - be it winter or summer - sunshine or hail. So I really observe the changes every day - changes in weather - temperature - the time of dawn and so on. So it gives a very strong feeling of the ongoing - infinite feeling - march of our planet on it's trek around the sun. Really feels like having a finger on the pulse of the planet.

Can not say this winter felt that long - dark - or cold compared to previous years though.

murpho999

Today is not the first day of Spring. Irish people are the only people in Europe who are taught this at school and it is wrong.

This is from the Met Eireann website. Link

Seasons
The change from winter to spring or from summer to autumn is gradual and the general trend is subject to reversals which may last for a week or more. For Climatological purposes, on the basis of air temperature, seasons are regarded as three - month periods as follows: December to February - winter, March to May - spring, June to August - summer and September to November - autumn. This is a common grouping in the meteorological practice of many countries in the middle and northern latitudes.

If today was Spring then August (Peak Summer Holiday season) would be Autumn which is clearly wrong.

Chris_Bradley

Spring begins in March. Look out your window & tell me different.

Shrap

murpho999 wrote: »

Today is not the first day of Spring. Irish people are the only people in Europe who are taught this at school and it is wrong.

THis is from the Met Eireann website. :link



If today was Spring then August (Peak Summer Holiday season) would be Autumn which is clearly wrong.

St. Brigid's day replaced the Irish pagan festival of Imbolc, which was our ancient celebration of renewal of life (budding of plants and animals getting pregnant or something) and related to the previously worshipped goddess Brigid. It is the cross-quarter day between the winter and spring equinox on the Celtic calendar and has been our traditional 1st day of spring whether it's seasonally accurate or not!

Also, 1st March isn't likely to be better weather. We can get frosts and snow all the way into May...

OldGoat

I've not seen any crocus flowering yet so it's still Winter.
FACT.

Harry Palmr

Spring starts with the always glorious weather for St Pattys day *cough*

Shrap

OldGoat wrote: »

I've not seen any crocus flowering yet so it's still Winter.
FACT.

I've got narcissus flowering outside the door, but they were always a bit stupid. True, no crocuses flowering, but they're trying hard!

murpho999

Shrap wrote: »

St. Brigid's day replaced the Irish pagan festival of Imbolc, which was our ancient celebration of renewal of life (budding of plants and animals getting pregnant or something) and related to the previously worshipped goddess Brigid. It is the cross-quarter day between the winter and spring equinox on the Celtic calendar and has been our traditional 1st day of spring whether it's seasonally accurate or not!

Also, 1st March isn't likely to be better weather. We can get frosts and snow all the way into May...

I don't care about all the Celtic or religious hocus pocus, today is not Spring.

It's Winter and that's a scientific fact.

Your examples of frosts etc are to with weather not climate (there is a difference) and our seasons often overlap.

Shrap

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't csare about all the Celtic or relgious hocus pocus, today is not Spring.

I don't care either, but that's the reason we Irish are a bit muddled and get taught in school that it is Spring.

osarusan

There's a grand ould stretch in the rain alright.

cowboyBuilder

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't believe in seasons!

Ireland has 2 seasons

Winter

Winter lite


//

King George VI

i LOVE SPRING, THE RAIN GETS SLIGHTLY WARMER



Edit: didn't realize my caps lock was on. Not changing it, makes my statement about spring more enthusiastic.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

Today is not the first day of Spring. Irish people are the only people in Europe who are taught this at school and it is wrong.
.... If today was Spring then August (Peak Summer Holiday season) would be Autumn which is clearly wrong.

Today, Lá 'le Bríde, is clearly the first day of spring, no matter what people with their heads conquered by other cultural traditions try to tell us is our own Irish tradition. And Lúnasa, 1 August, is the first day of autumn, while Meán Fomhair ("middle of autumn") is the second month of autumn, September, and Deireadh Fómhair ('end of autumn') is the last month of autumn, October.

No point in trying to rewrite this indisputable very ancient Irish tradition just because it doesn't fit into another people's tradition.

meeeeh

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

If we're going to get season-ist, you say that if the summer solstice is Midsummer, the the vernal equinox in March is 'Midspring'. And if Spring is three months long, then Spring starts a month and a half before the vernal equinox.

Around March 21st is equinox -solstice -spring
Around June 21st is solstice -equinox - summer
Around September 21st is equinox - solstice - autumn
Around December 21st solstice - equinox - winter

Seasons are defined by those dates. Personally I prefer the meteorological division posted somewhere above but those are astronomical seasons.

pickarooney

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes it's some time around 20th of March on equinox. Summer starts on the longest day of the year and winter on the shortest. Atumn is equinox again.

But my division is 1st of March for spring, 1st of June for summer, 1st of September for autumn and 1st of December for winter. And the only scientific foundation for that is : because I said so.

Summer begins on midsummer's day. Idiot logic, surely?

Almost as stupid is basing your seasons on some arcane notion of the weather being warmer in August.

The planets and the light define the seasons in Ireland. Copying the seasons from France or Spain makes as much sense as copying them from Australia.

meeeeh

pickarooney wrote: »

Summer begins on midsummer's day. Idiot logic, surely?

Almost as stupid is basing your seasons on some arcane notion of the weather being warmer in August.

The planets and the light define the seasons in Ireland. Copying the seasons from France or Spain makes as much sense as copying them from Australia.

They are arbitrary set dates for northern hemisphere. There has to be some sort of universality to enable comparison. That's probably why meteorological seasons are better because the astronomical ones are old georgian calendar division that varies a bit. If you think that is idiotic because they don't correspond to dates your toes feel cold than so be it.

Btw all this is primariy school geography.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Today, Lá 'le Bríde, is clearly the first day of spring, no matter what people with their heads conquered by other cultural traditions try to tell us is our own Irish tradition. And Lúnasa, 1 August, is the first day of autumn, while Meán Fomhair ("middle of autumn") is the second month of autumn, September, and Deireadh Fómhair ('end of autumn') is the last month of autumn, October.

No point in trying to rewrite this indisputable very ancient Irish tradition just because it doesn't fit into another people's tradition.

I don't see the relevance, at the time those terms were coined, people beleived that the earth was flat.

Things move on , the calendar that was used was wrong, and just because it's some saint's day does not mean it's correct.

The rest of the northern hemisphere has March (Around the solstice) as the start of Spring, our own Meteorological service agrees, how can they all be wrong.

Also, I will never accept August as Autumn, as it's the warmest time of year.

mansize

Mean Fomhair- Sept
Happy Spring guys!

murpho999

pickarooney wrote: »

Summer begins on midsummer's day. Idiot logic, surely?

Almost as stupid is basing your seasons on some arcane notion of the weather being warmer in August.

The planets and the light define the seasons in Ireland. Copying the seasons from France or Spain makes as much sense as copying them from Australia.

Midsummers day was the midsummer of pagans so it's their logic you are following.

pickarooney

meeeeh wrote: »

They are arbitrary set dates for northern hemisphere. There has to be some sort of universality to enable comparison. That's probably why meteorological seasons are better because the astronomical ones are old georgian calendar division that varies a bit. If you think that is idiotic because they don't correspond to dates your toes feel cold than so be it.

Btw all this is primariy school geography.

Arbitrary indeed... No need for sense when you have arbitrary. Which is somehow better than 'based on actual science'.

namloc1980

Costosa wrote: »

Today is finally the first day of spring, also St Brigid's Day. It's been a long cold and dark winter, thankfully the days are getting longer and not so cold.

Long cold dark winter? In Northern Scandinavia maybe, not here though.

pickarooney

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't see the relevance, at the time those terms were coined, people beleived that the earth was flat.

Things move on , the calendar that was used was wrong, and just because it's some saint's day does not mean it's correct.

The rest of the northern hemisphere has March (Around the solstice) as the start of Spring, our own Meteorological service agrees, how can they all be wrong.

Also, I will never accept August as Autumn, as it's the warmest time of year.

The people who built newgrange thought the earth was flat? FFS.

Mal-Adjusted

I'm always amazed how people get so bent out of shape over this. It's not as if you flick a switch and the weather gets better.

pickarooney

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

I'm always amazed how people get so bent out of shape over this. It's not as if you flock a switch and the weather gets better.

Exactly. But you can track the movement of the celestial bodies and the increase in daylight very accurately.

murpho999

pickarooney wrote: »

The people who built newgrange thought the earth was flat? FFS.

Yes, they did, why wouldn't they?

Just because they could align a chamber ithe sun's path on a certain day did not mean they had a full understanding of everything.

murpho999

pickarooney wrote: »

Arbitrary indeed... No need for sense when you have arbitrary. Which is somehow better than 'based on actual science'.

Do you really think then that August is not summer?

The Backwards Man

meeeeh wrote: »

They are arbitrary set dates for northern hemisphere. There has to be some sort of universality to enable comparison. That's probably why meteorological seasons are better because the astronomical ones are old georgian calendar division that varies a bit. If you think that is idiotic because they don't correspond to dates your toes feel cold than so be it.

Btw all this is primariy school geography.

Primary school geographers and arbitrary date setters don't plant spuds, sow corn or cut turf. If they did they'd know they're talking bollocks

pickarooney

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you really think then that August is not summer?

In the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, August is Autumn.

You reckon they just fluked newgrange with no understanding of astronomy... fair enough.

murpho999

pickarooney wrote: »

In the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, August is Autumn.

You reckon they just fluked newgrange with no understanding of astronomy... fair enough.

Just judging by the climate being at it's warmest in August does not mean it's summer.

As for Newgrange, they noticed patterns and built a chamber that captured light around the same time each year.
It was done for religious reasons, not science.

ninebeanrows

The biggest lie we were taught!

I always remember getting really angry over it and writing down the correct season months in tests in primary school.

meeeeh

pickarooney wrote: »

In the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, August is Autumn.

You reckon they just fluked newgrange with no understanding of astronomy... fair enough.

Ok. Then we Will do international temperature comparisons everywhere else for meteorological seasons and in Ireland do it for whatever they decided in Newgrange or when spuds are growing. Makes perfect sense.

Shrap

Lads, the level of disagreement on here just goes to show that we might as well pick today for 1st day of Spring, and every country can call it as they see it. It's clearly only a symbol for the season of new beginnings anyway. After all, if it wasn't for the "tradition" of having a calendar, we might as well just number the days up to 365 and abandon the months altogether

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

murpho999 wrote: »

Just judging by the climate being at it's warmest in August does not mean it's summer.

As for Newgrange, they noticed patterns and built a chamber that captured light around the same time each year.
It was done for religious reasons, not science.

It may have been for religious purposes but the science proved correct.

Spring in the Northern Hemisphere begins at the equinox.

murpho999

Connor Odd Sepia wrote: »

It may have been for religious purposes but the science proved correct.

Spring in the Northern Hemisphere begins at the equinox.

Correct, so March 21st not February 1st.

CrabRevolution

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't see the relevance, at the time those terms were coined, people beleived that the earth was flat.

Things move on , the calendar that was used was wrong, and just because it's some saint's day does not mean it's correct.

The rest of the northern hemisphere has March (Around the solstice) as the start of Spring, our own Meteorological service agrees, how can they all be wrong.

Also, I will never accept August as Autumn, as it's the warmest time of year.

5000 years after it was built, Newgrange is still in line with the rising sun at the winter solstice. I think our ancestors knew a thing or two about calendars and what time of year it was.

murpho999

CrabRevolution wrote: »

5000 years after it was built, Newgrange is still in line with the rising sun at the winter solstice. I think our ancestors knew a thing or two about calendars and what time of year it was.

They did but that doesn't mean that Spring starts on February 1st does it?

They knew that the sun was in a certain position every year, it does not make them planetery & meteorological experts.

pickarooney

murpho999 wrote: »

They did but that doesn't mean that Spring starts on February 1st does it?

They knew that the sun was in a certain position every year, it does not make them planetery & meteorological experts.

Just try and imagine for a minute the calculations that go into something so precise and fleeting. You can't just do that on a hunch.

The equinox is actually on March 20th now anyway.

murpho999

pickarooney wrote: »

Just try and imagine for a minute the calculations that go into something so precise and fleeting. You can't just do that on a hunch.

The equinox is actually on March 20th now anyway.

It would be done on noticing a pattern of the sun shining on the same place every year, who said it was a hunch?

Still doesn't mean that February 1st is the first day of Spring though.

pickarooney

Are we still on March 1st then? Cause the equinox is at least a bit logical even if as a result the summer months have less light than the spring ones but march 1st seems to be grounded in nothing at all.
Midsummer is an actual thing, the Nordics are all into it. Having the middle at the start is a bit bonkers.

eisenberg1

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Spring starts with the always glorious weather for St Pattys day *cough*

Who is she? St Patty?

Fat Christy

Doesn't feel much like Spring out there at the moment. Tis fierce blustery out.