RTE NL HD promo video on Saorview. TG4 HD?

dublinman1990

For those of you reporting on TG4 HD coming to Saorview. You may be out of luck for the moment because I'm not getting TG4 HD at all.

All I'm getting is a RTE NL promotional loop video that showing images of Galway and Dublin that being shot in HD instead. The reason why the video is from there is that says RTE NL, while faded out, on the bottom left hand corner of the screen. The video does seem to be a couple of years old as it was made sometime before 2007.

The video is called Four Seasons in a Day. It is an archived video made by RTE.

Although the end credits for the video show that when in Galway; it was filmed by TG4 themselves which may or may not indicate TG4 HD coming onto Saorview.

Although time will tell if the end result is true for us or not. It will be great for us Saorview users to get TG4 HD for this year.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

dublinman1990 wrote: »

For those of you reporting on TG4 HD coming to Saorview. You may be out of luck for the moment because I'm not getting TG4 HD at all.

All I'm getting is a RTE NL promotional loop video that showing images of Galway and Dublin that being shot in HD instead. The reason why the video is from there is that says RTE NL, while faded out, on the bottom left hand corner of the screen. The video does seem to be a couple of years old as it was made sometime before 2007.

The video is called Four Seasons in a Day. It is an archived video made by RTE.

Although the end credits for the video show that when in Galway; it was filmed by TG4 themselves which may or may not indicate TG4 HD coming onto Saorview.

Although time will tell if the end result is true for us or not. It will be great for us Saorview users to get TG4 HD for this year.

I spotted this yesterday. At the moment it's only speculation that TG4 HD will appear. This test could dissappear anytime leaving us all disappointed yet again.

Sam Russell

TG4 'own' LCN 14 for their +1 service. It is testing an HD channel, so likely TG4 HD. TG4 also have a +1 service available on other platforms. Join the dots and see the picture.

FRIENDO

Would be great to get TG4 HD for sport, think the GAA National league starts this weekend.

twinklerunner

Sam Russell wrote: »

TG4 'own' LCN 14 for their +1 service. It is testing an HD channel, so likely TG4 HD. TG4 also have a +1 service available on other platforms. Join the dots and see the picture.

TG4+1? Where?

lgs 4

dublinman1990 wrote: »

For those of you reporting on TG4 HD coming to Saorview. You may be out of luck for the moment because I'm not getting TG4 HD at all.

All I'm getting is a RTE NL promotional loop video that showing images of Galway and Dublin that being shot in HD instead. The reason why the video is from there is that says RTE NL, while faded out, on the bottom left hand corner of the screen. The video does seem to be a couple of years old as it was made sometime before 2007.

The video is called Four Seasons in a Day. It is an archived video made by RTE.

Although the end credits for the video show that when in Galway; it was filmed by TG4 themselves which may or may not indicate TG4 HD coming onto Saorview.

Although time will tell if the end result is true for us or not. It will be great for us Saorview users to get TG4 HD for this year.

check out language audio it's in irish the same as SD version

This test loop has aired several times in the past, dating back to the HD Ireland test as part of the MPEG-2 trials in 2007/2008.

Sam Russell

LCN 12 is currently carrying a test card (SD) so that would be for RTE 2+1, assuming it is to be launched. Looks like a retune is coming.

Maybe the Minister is preparing for his last day in office in the traditional manner - signing a raft of Statutory Instruments.

12 and 14 have been carrying test cards for years. I doubt that they're in their final positions. Could literally be anything.

Sam Russell

RTE 2+1 has been mooted for years, and it is in its final position.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE 2+1 has been mooted for years, and it is in its final position.

Do you have a source in 2RN to confirm that?

Sam Russell

Karsini wrote: »

Do you have a source in 2RN to confirm that?

No, it is just the way the LCNs have been set out.

lertsnim

It would be great if it was TG4 HD for the national football and hurling leagues.

galtee boy

This may be nothing to get excited about. Language audio has now changed to English from Irish. Could be 2RN just fiddling about.

galtee boy

galtee boy wrote: »

This may be nothing to get excited about. Language audio has now changed to English from Irish. Could be 2RN just fiddling about.

It was always Irish, even with the HD test card. So it really means very little as you say.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

If TG4 HD was going to be added to the epg surely 2rn could add it more or less straight away without too much testing.

Gerry Wicklow

natashaob6 wrote: »

If TG4 HD was going to be added to the epg surely 2rn could add it more or less straight away without too much testing.

Agreed. They've had enough time messing about with test cards. All it should need now is the flick of a switch to the TG4 feed.

It's quite possibly a statmux test. Easier to do such a test with plenty of moving video than with a stationary test card.

The Cush

You can see live bitrate monitoring for the test channel here, PID 2104 Mux2. Historical bitrate tracking indicates the loop started about Monday afternoon. Video bitrate averaging about 7.5 Mbps, maxing at 9.1 Mbps.

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=PSB-MUX-2&pid=2104&live=15&lang=en

Karsini

Karsini wrote: »

This test loop has aired several times in the past, dating back to the HD Ireland test as part of the MPEG-2 trials in 2007/2008.

I remembered that I have a short recording of the Galway test video when it was on the trial channel in April 2008. So I dug it out to do a comparison. 1920x1080 at 13.3Mb/s and the difference is definitely noticeable.

Mickey Mike

TG4 HD now testing on Sky, have a feeling it could launch on Saorview in October for its 20 birthday, if not it could be a very long time if ever.

lertsnim

It is a nice thought but I won't be holding my breath. I'd love to be wrong though.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Even a foreign broadcaster can get an irish language channel in HD on it's platform. Saorview a total joke.

galtee boy

Braylen Eager Candlelight wrote: »

Even a foreign broadcaster can get an irish language channel in HD on it's platform. Saorview a total joke.

Presumably because Sky are offering free carriage.

gordongekko

galtee boy wrote: »

Presumably because Sky are offering free carriage.

But we the taxpayer are paying for both TG4 and Saorview

Sam Russell

The problem with Saorview and HD is simply the charge regime imposed on 2RN by Comreg. 2RN get €12 m for the two muxes no matter what the usage. The charge is based on kbits used, so each channel pays more if they go HD or even try to get a good picture quality. Now it cost €3m per year to run an analgue channel vs €6m for a full mux that can carry four HD channels (in a squeeze).

Why do the broadcasters not pay up? - because they can - and because they have contempt for their viewers, and advertisers.

However, it is in the hands of the various ministers for communications to sort this out. It only requires a simple signature on a SI document. Why are they not doing this?

Mickey Mike

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problem with Saorview and HD is simply the charge regime imposed on 2RN by Comreg. 2RN get €12 m for the two muxes no matter what the usage. The charge is based on kbits used, so each channel pays more if they go HD or even try to get a good picture quality. Now it cost €3m per year to run an analgue channel vs €6m for a full mux that can carry four HD channels (in a squeeze).

Why do the broadcasters not pay up? - because they can - and because they have contempt for their viewers, and advertisers.

However, it is in the hands of the various ministers for communications to sort this out. It only requires a simple signature on a SI document. Why are they not doing this?

We had 3 minsters of communications Pat Carney Pat Rabbitt and Alex White, not of them sorted it out. It is now Denis Naghton in charge, will he do it? If you Sam could be his advisor, we'll see common sense change if you can be powerfull enough. Trouble is alot of these lands haven't got a clue.

former total

Sam Russell wrote: »

However, it is in the hands of the various ministers for communications to sort this out. It only requires a simple signature on a SI document. Why are they not doing this?

Because it would be torn to pieces in court.

Mickey Mike

Sorry, what's a SI document?

DamnLeech

As a user said above it will probably never come to saorview.
There's a Welsh channel called S4C and it even has a HD version.
It has barely any viewers.

FRIENDO

Mickie Mike wrote:

Sorry, what's a SI document?

Statutory Instrument.

FRIENDO

former total wrote:

Because it would be torn to pieces in court.

Unlikely

Sam Russell

former total wrote: »

Because it would be torn to pieces in court.

Why? The original SI signed by Minister Carey in the dying days of the FF disaster government was not challenged in court. I assume it would be properly drafted under the appropriate act so why would it be challenged?

(Hint, TV3 has been sold after its €80 m bailout by the Irish taxpayer.)

Mickie Mike wrote: »

Sorry, what's a SI document?

The SI document needed to counter the one mentioned above.

former total

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why? The original SI signed by Minister Carey in the dying days of the FF disaster government was not challenged in court. I assume it would be properly drafted under the appropriate act so why would it be challenged?

That SI didn't impose any set of standards on the private operators though?

You can't have a government minister signing orders that not only compel private companies to provide a service that they don't want to provide, but also to pay a state monopoly extra money to do so.

The minister wouldn't be bothered and it wouldn't stand up to any sort of challenge.

Sam Russell

former total wrote: »

That SI didn't impose any set of standards on the private operators though?

You can't have a government minister signing orders that not only compel private companies to provide a service that they don't want to provide, but also to pay a state monopoly extra money to do so.

The minister wouldn't be bothered and it wouldn't stand up to any sort of challenge.

The minimum standards operating on Saorview should be a matter for 2RN and not Comreg. Charging by the bandwidth used is not conducive to good broadcasting standards - it never applied to analogue so why should it apply to an underused digital mux?

The programmes shown on RTE 2 during daytime should be a matter for RTE and not ministerial order. RTE already show children's programmes on RTE Jr, a dedicated channel with no adverts - so why should they be forced to show a second daytime channel of children's programmes without adverts? Currently Galway Races is on RTE One rather than RTE 2 where it would normally be - why should that be? [Sport is normally on RTE 2].

There is too much political interference with broadcasting - and it has an anti-RTE tinge to it. The anti-RTE tinge is by all politicians has been going on for 50 years and so is not new but it is not good for anyone.

former total

Sam Russell wrote: »

The minimum standards operating on Saorview should be a matter for 2RN and not Comreg. Charging by the bandwidth used is not conducive to good broadcasting standards - it never applied to analogue so why should it apply to an underused digital mux?

The programmes shown on RTE 2 during daytime should be a matter for RTE and not ministerial order. RTE already show children's programmes on RTE Jr, a dedicated channel with no adverts - so why should they be forced to show a second daytime channel of children's programmes without adverts? Currently Galway Races is on RTE One rather than RTE 2 where it would normally be - why should that be? [Sport is normally on RTE 2].

There is too much political interference with broadcasting - and it has an anti-RTE tinge to it. The anti-RTE tinge is by all politicians has been going on for 50 years and so is not new but it is not good for anyone.

I'm confused, you say there should not be political interference, but what is needed to sort out the issue is a ministerial order?

2RN can't be allowed to set the minimum standards, because they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of RTE - TV3 would rightly cry foul if they had to adhere to rules set by their main competitor.

FRIENDO

RTE and 2rn are 100% owned by the State, owned by the People.

RTE and 2rn have been put in place to manage these affairs on behalf of the State.

TV3 can cry all they like, but it will only be for their own benefit and profit.

Hopefully soon the Minister will start legislating law for better benefit for the public, rather than bowing to private profit companys.

icdg

Mickie Mike wrote:

Whats an SI document .

An SI is a Statutory Instrument, a form of delegated legislation made by public bodies which have had that power conferred on them by statute.

Note: the decision made by the Minister referred to above was not the subject of an SI, despite multiple references to one here.

Sam Russell

former total wrote: »

I'm confused, you say there should not be political interference, but what is needed to sort out the issue is a ministerial order?

2RN can't be allowed to set the minimum standards, because they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of RTE - TV3 would rightly cry foul if they had to adhere to rules set by their main competitor.

The political interference comes from the SI issued by Minister Carey and the only way out is to cancel (or vary it) by issuing another SI. That is the way the law works.

The two muxes in use are the property of 2RN and it is by their grace that the commercial users are allowed on to them. [RTE were gifted them as part of ASO and RTE built the network from their own resources].

If TV3 or any other operator wanted to, they could build their own network having applied for and obtained the appropriate licences, finance, site locations, etc.] However, it is cheaper for them to piggy-back on RTE's coat tails [while shouting 'Foul - you are state funded by the licence fee - I want transmission for free!'].

However, TV3 threw their toys out of the pram and got Comreg to setup a ludicrous charging scheme that causes RTE to pay two thirds of the cost of transmission while they could fit their entire output on just one mux (costing €6m and leave the other broadcaster to share the €6m cost of the other one between them). Now there is an idea!

former total

Sam Russell wrote: »

The political interference comes from the SI issued by Minister Carey and the only way out is to cancel (or vary it) by issuing another SI. That is the way the law works.

The two muxes in use are the property of 2RN and it is by their grace that the commercial users are allowed on to them. [RTE were gifted them as part of ASO and RTE built the network from their own resources].

If TV3 or any other operator wanted to, they could build their own network having applied for and obtained the appropriate licences, finance, site locations, etc.] However, it is cheaper for them to piggy-back on RTE's coat tails [while shouting 'Foul - you are state funded by the licence fee - I want transmission for free!'].

However, TV3 threw their toys out of the pram and got Comreg to setup a ludicrous charging scheme that causes RTE to pay two thirds of the cost of transmission while they could fit their entire output on just one mux (costing €6m and leave the other broadcaster to share the €6m cost of the other one between them). Now there is an idea!

You're jumping all over the place here so I'm not sure which point I should argue.

If Tv3 had to shoulder €6m transmission costs, they would drop off Saorview. If they had to build and run their own network, they would drop off Saorview.

The only viable model is the one we have. People just need to suck it up and make peace with watching CBB in SD.

Sam Russell

former total wrote: »

You're jumping all over the place here so I'm not sure which point I should argue.

If Tv3 had to shoulder €6m transmission costs, they would drop off Saorview. If they had to build and run their own network, they would drop off Saorview.

The only viable model is the one we have. People just need to suck it up and make peace with watching CBB in SD.

I never said TV3 alone would shoulder €6m. There are five - soon to be six - non RTE channels on Saorview, all of which are SD. [TV3, TG4. UTVi, 3e, OTV, and (Irish TV - soon). Current cost for an SD channel is in the region of €800k if my memory is correct) so simply dividing the the cost by 6 comes out at €1m each, but with 24 mbits to play with, and currently using only 2.5 mbits each, it would allow them to 4 mb/s each which would certainly allow 720 by 576 each with much better picture quality and might allow some to go HD.

Remember, TV3 were paying close to €3m per year for analogue before Saorview. They will not drop off Saorview whatever the charges - they may go through the courts but will pay up in the end.

Rick_

TG4 HD launches on Sky today. I wonder if we will ever see it launch on Saorview.

lertsnim

I think it's poor that people in another country will have it before FTA viewers who part fund TG4.

former total

lertsnim wrote: »

I think it's poor that people in another country will have it before FTA viewers who part fund TG4.

Won't it be restricted to people in Ireland though?

lertsnim

lertsnim wrote: »

I think it's poor that people in another country will have it before FTA viewers who part fund TG4.

They already have the SD version in better quality than we do! Saorview is a complete joke.

Digifriendly

Karsini wrote: »

lertsnim wrote: »

I think it's poor that people in another country will have it before FTA viewers who part fund TG4.

They already have the SD version in better quality than we do! Saorview is a complete joke.

Yes TG4 on Freeview here in NI is noticeably so compared to Saorview.

Mickey Mike

When UTVi become part of the TV3 group, will they continue to pay for 3 sd channels? I would nearly rather if they pay for 1 HD channel with a bit of quality and drop the two more. Likewise TG4 should be made available in HD, no more messing.

former total

Karsini wrote: »

They already have the SD version in better quality than we do! Saorview is a complete joke.

Picture quality on Saorview is better than on Sky SD. The sound on Saorview is in a different league.

former total

former total wrote: »

Picture quality on Saorview is better than on Sky SD. The sound on Saorview is in a different league.

I was referring to the terrestrial NI mini mux. Couldn't vouch for Sky SD at all.

FRIENDO

former total wrote:

Won't it be restricted to people in Ireland though?

It shouldn't be, we fund TG4 with our licence fee.

ArKl0w

former total wrote: »

Picture quality on Saorview is better than on Sky SD. The sound on Saorview is in a different league.

No Dolby digital on saorview at all though whereas there is on Some free view hd channels and obviously on many satellite channels
Ergo saorview is inferior