partners ex partners on mortgage,hasn't paid in years

lifeandtimes

Hi,

Ill set the scene and please note we will be in touch with the bank later id just like to ask boards as everyone is really helpful here.

I currently live my partner,my partners two children live there and we are expecting another. My partners ex is on the mortgage which is 5 years old out of 30.Their relationship ended after a month of them being there and the ex has only made one payment to the mortgage in total. Iv lived there for over a year and half and have paid my share obviously technically as a renter though

My query is this...in the case were my partner informs the bank that the ex has not paid their half of the mortgage for the last 5 years what happens?

Like if my partner was to start paying 50 percent of the mortgage do they chase the ex for the rest and would they seize the house if my partner only continued to pay 50 percent the ex still didn't pay.

We can currently afford the mortgage which is fine and understand the legal requirements to have me put on the house i.e remortgaging it etc but im just curious as to this aspect.

I hear of relationships breaking down and the exs still having to pay their half which is their responsibility but obviously they are entitled to half of the house value etc but what happens when it turns out they dont pay?

Has anyone been in this situation before? I'm sure its probably common knowledge what happens(or should) but i am unable to link to the banks online help that explains this situatiion

whippet

both parties are jointly responsible for paying the mortgage .. if one contributes nothing the bank can go after one or both parties for the arrears. They don't care where the money comes from as long as it comes.

The mortgage and the deeds are two separate things mind you. While the ex may contribute nothing he still has a share and interest in the property.

You have a number of options, all involve speaking with a solicitor, the bank and with the ex.

seamus

^^ What whippet says pretty much covers it.

Two people named on the mortgage are joint and severally liable for repayment of that mortgage. This means that if one person stops paying, the bank doesn't care why or who, they expect the two parties to sort out the problem between them.

Potentially the ex-partner could be chased by your current partner for owed back payments, but without any formal agreement or contract to repay that would be a hard and expensive slog.

At this stage your best course of action is for your partner (with or without you) to "buy" out their ex and take over the whole mortgage. As whippets says, this will require discussion with solicitors, the banks and the ex.

Shermanator

If you and your partner continue to pay the mortgage the bank will be quite happy to accept the payment. They really dont care where the payments come from. However, you are now in a precarious position whereby your partners ex still has a 50% share in the house and would be entitled to force a sale at any stage. He would also be entitled to a 50% share in any equity your'e partner has built up in the property over the years. You however currently have no legal claim on the property.
You need to rectify this legally asap

Shermanator

If you and your partner continue to pay the mortgage the bank will be quite happy to accept the payment. They really dont care where the payments come from. However, you are now in a precarious position whereby your partners ex still has a 50% share in the house and would be entitled to force a sale at any stage. He would also be entitled to a 50% share in any equity your'e partner has built up in the property over the years. You however currently have no legal claim on the property.
You need to rectify this legally asap

lifeandtimes

thanks for the replies guys they are very helpful

There is a meeting with the bank on friday regarding this.

My partner has had enough at this stage and wants to inform the banks of the ex not paying however we are worried how things go, she is able to afford her half(even full payment with me) but we dont want to put the house in jeopardy by not paying but also do not want the ex to get away with no paying their share which is their responsibility as they are entitled to half the value of the house but arent paying anything to it.

hopefully the bank can clear things up and advise if they will follow up with the ex for their payments of it or what the process is.

There must be more people in this situation before and have had things resolved

Taboola

lifeandtimes wrote: »

hopefully the bank can clear things up and advise if they will follow up with the ex for their payments of it or what the process is.

There must be more people in this situation before and have had things resolved

They aren't going to follow up with the ex for payment. The bank don't care who the money is coming from as long as they are paid.

whippet

lifeandtimes wrote: »

hopefully the bank can clear things up and advise if they will follow up with the ex for their payments of it or what the process is.

There must be more people in this situation before and have had things resolved

There are plenty of people going through something similar - check out the forums on Askaboutmoney.com

However, the bank will not be of any support what so ever here. Legally they have two people who owe the money and as it being paid they won't care.

If your partner decides that she will only pay 50% in the hope that the bank will be OK with that as they will chase the ex for the other 50% would be very mistaken. If your partner does not pay the full mortgage and the ex contributes nothing the mortgage is in arrears and then you open up a whole new can of worms where the bank will be very interested.

This will not be sorted without agreement from your partner's ex. If there is no line of communication I would suggest that you engage a legal representative who could advise as to how to encourage communication.

GerardKeating

lifeandtimes wrote: »

thanks for the replies guys they are very helpful

There is a meeting with the bank on friday regarding this.

My partner has had enough at this stage and wants to inform the banks of the ex not paying however we are worried how things go, she is able to afford her half(even full payment with me) but we dont want to put the house in jeopardy by not paying but also do not want the ex to get away with no paying their share which is their responsibility as they are entitled to half the value of the house but arent paying anything to it.

hopefully the bank can clear things up and advise if they will follow up with the ex for their payments of it or what the process is.

There must be more people in this situation before and have had things resolved

so Basically, YOU are paying the ex's share, and building up equity in the house for them.

lifeandtimes

whippet wrote: »

If your partner decides that she will only pay 50% in the hope that the bank will be OK with that as they will chase the ex for the other 50% would be very mistaken. If your partner does not pay the full mortgage and the ex contributes nothing the mortgage is in arrears and then you open up a whole new can of worms where the bank will be very interested.

.

can you advise what you mean here?

Saw only 50 percent is paid, the bank try to get in touch and ask why only half is being made,partner advises and then bank say we want the money anyway, she tells them to follow up with ex.If bank follow up with Ex, the ex obviously refuses and bank bring both to court for failing on the mortgage,both credit ratings ruined etc. but court case is there to explain my partners side of ex failing to pay their half

That's basically what i see happening but my partner has a meeting with the bank just to inform them of the situation and then i supposes they can only say what you are all confirming and then its up to us there after to get the ex to pay.

Carawaystick

Would this fall under any type of adverse possession? The OP is using the land as if it were his own, and preventing one of the actual owners from the enjoyment of that land?

Taboola

The bank are not interested in domestic breakdowns. I think you seem to think they are going to be the 'bad guy' to tell the ex to pay up.

The easiest way to deal with this is to speak to the ex and ask him what he wants to do. He might be ok with having his name removed from the deeds if he gets his deposit back etc and washing his hands of it.

lifeandtimes

Carawaystick wrote: »

Would this fall under any type of adverse possession? The OP is using the land as if it were his own, and preventing one of the actual owners from the enjoyment of that land?

im sorry but where did come to this conclusion?

My partner and the ex relationship broke down and the ex left, he was not refused access to the home, bought have moved on with their lives, however the ex has refused to make payment for the mortgage of the last 5 years

Taboola

lifeandtimes wrote: »

im sorry but where did come to this conclusion?

My partner and the ex relationship broke down and the ex left, he was not refused access to the home, bought have moved on with their lives, however the ex has refused to make payment for the mortgage of the last 5 years

Which is fair enough. Why should he pay for a house he's not living in?

Carawaystick

You are paying for the ex to own half your home.
I'd imagine you don't want the ex to own half your home.


If the ex doesn't live there or pay for 7 more years, then it might be possible to lawyer up and you acquire a right to the land, and dispossess the ex of the ex's portion of the interest in the land.

lifeandtimes

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are paying for the ex to own half your home.
I'd imagine you don't want the ex to own half your home.


If the ex doesn't live there or pay for 7 more years, then it might be possible to lawyer up and you acquire a right to the land, and dispossess the ex of the ex's portion of the interest in the land.

thank you, that is an interesting prospect to consider

phil1nj

lifeandtimes wrote: »

thanks for the replies guys they are very helpful

There is a meeting with the bank on friday regarding this.

My partner has had enough at this stage and wants to inform the banks of the ex not paying however we are worried how things go, she is able to afford her half(even full payment with me) but we dont want to put the house in jeopardy by not paying but also do not want the ex to get away with no paying their share which is their responsibility as they are entitled to half the value of the house but arent paying anything to it.

hopefully the bank can clear things up and advise if they will follow up with the ex for their payments of it or what the process is.

There must be more people in this situation before and have had things resolved

Hi. I am currently in a situation just like this.My advice is to go to see a solicitor straight away. As has been said here already, the bank do not care where the money comes from once the mortgage is paid. They will not get involved in the specifics of who should be paying what.

Also, no one can be forced to pay their share of a joint mortgage, however a sale of the property can be forced but this can only be done through the courts.

whippet

lifeandtimes wrote: »

thank you, that is an interesting prospect to consider

but probably highly unlikely.

You have to separate the Asset (property) and the Liability (mortgage) .. while one is security for the other they are different.

The Asset (house)
This is jointly owned by your partner and you ex. Any decision as to the ownership of this asset must be done with the agreement of both parties.

The Liability (mortgage)
Both you partner and her ex owe all this money. It does not matter who has paid what or who hasn't paid ... between both of them they owe the bank the money. The bank couldn't give a monkies as to how much each party contributes. Both parties signed the mortgage application as a joint mortgage and can't run away from this contract as they now don't like each other.


The bank will not remove someone from a mortgage easily, as in doing so they then only have one person they can chase for money.

If you want to take responsibility for the mortgage you would need to apply for a new mortgage with your partner .. fulfilling all the deposit, affordability conditions etc.

To get a new mortgage on the property, you will need to have the original one discharged. To do this you would need to buy out your partner's ex and get his agreement to do so. If the property is in negative equity and you don't have a hefty cash pile this might not be possible.

Just to reinforce, as long as the deeds of the house show the ex as an owner this will always be the case.

hurikane

Taboola wrote: »

Which is fair enough. Why should he pay for a house he's not living in?

Maybe because he took out a mortgage on the property and is legally obliged to?

questionmark?

Taboola wrote: »

Which is fair enough. Why should he pay for a house he's not living in?

OP dont listen to the above! Legally the ex is fully and equally liable for the loan.
That's the equivalent of getting a loan off the Credit Union for €5k, buying a car, crashing it and then saying I'm not paying it back as I don't have the car any more. You still owe the money.

Anyway the ex part owns the house and is fully and equaily liable for the payments. There is no 50% share of the monthly payments and the bank will not get involved in a relationship breakdown. If the ex doesn't want to do this you should look into buying him out and complete a transfer of equity. You will need to involve solicitors at some stage or from the beginning of the ex doesn't play ball.

haveringchick

Taboola wrote: »

They aren't going to follow up with the ex for payment. The bank don't care who the money is coming from as long as they are paid.

This is the bottom line really
Your partner and ex need to get into mediation and sort it all out

Taboola

questionmark? wrote: »

OP dont listen to the above! Legally the ex is fully and equally liable for the loan.
That's the equivalent of getting a loan off the Credit Union for €5k, buying a car, crashing it and then saying I'm not paying it back as I don't have the car any more. You still owe the money.

Anyway the ex part owns the house and is fully and equaily liable for the payments. There is no 50% share of the monthly payments and the bank will not get involved in a relationship breakdown. If the ex doesn't want to do this you should look into buying him out and complete a transfer of equity. You will need to involve solicitors at some stage or from the beginning of the ex doesn't play ball.

Do we know the full facts here? Did the OPs partner kick out the ex? Did she tell him she'd cover the mortgage if he left? TBH the OPs partner and her ex should have sorted this years ago.

barman linen

Is there equity in the property ?

If not then it may be easier to get the ex to agree to a re-mortgage of the property into both your and your partner's name. You will be absolving them of a legal obligation to a potential debt.

If there is equity and you bring this to her now she has a legal ( not moral ) right to 50% of that equity.

As you pay off more and more the equity will only increase.

You need to act quickly.

If you have the resources to re-finance then I would do it immediately.

questionmark?

Double post

questionmark?

Taboola - Did you bother reading my post in context? Or did you just type that as you didn't like the fact I said your were wrong when you said the ex didn't have to pay as they no longer lived in the house!

I responded clearly to what's been posted. No more no less.

Wheter the OPs partner kicked out the ex or said they would pay the mortgage(outside of a binding court agreement which there is no mention of by the OP) is irrelevant to the maintenance of the mortgage and ownership of the asset.

Taboola

questionmark? wrote: »

Taboola - Did you bother reading my post in context? Or did you just type that as you didn't like the fact I said your were wrong when you said the ex didn't have to pay as they no longer lived in the house!

I responded clearly to what's been posted. No more no less.

Wheter the OPs partner kicked out the ex or said they would pay the mortgage(outside of a binding court agreement which there is no mention of by the OP) is irrelevant to the maintenance of the mortgage and ownership of the asset.

Was just offering a different opinion, thanks all

questionmark?

Unless the OP wishes to share more there isn't much more to be said about the situation.

lifeandtimes

Hi everyone thanks for your replies.

To add more information the ex partner refuses to make payments,my partner is fearful of losing the house so we are making payments for the mortgage so essentially the ex is getting away Scott free. The house is in positive equity however the ex does not know that. It's a nightmare for my partner to try and get the ex to sign paperwork regarding the house.

So as it stands,their are kids here so the ex can't force a sale until they are 18, ex won't pay the mortgage,won't sign over ownership or say that they won't take a stake in the house even if we offer their deposit back.

We really are in a bind and this person is reaping the benifit's

Any further advice?

F1ngers

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Any further advice?

Speak to a solicitor.

4ensic15

GerardKeating wrote: »

so Basically, YOU are paying the ex's share, and building up equity in the house for them.

That is wrong. the person who pays the money acquires the equity. There is only going to be a problem when the house is put up for sale, if ever. meantime the source of all funds used to pay the loan should be documented and letters written to the ex seeking money together with any replies. When a sale is being considered, at that stage some legal pressure can be brought to bear on th ex.

Steve

Speak to a solicitor *with experience in these matters*

Get it before a judge ASAP before the banks get a ruling.

Banks, as already said, will go after jointly liable parties. A judge can decide differently depending on who has paid the mortgage and what proportion they paid - only downside is the property may have to be liquidated to close that.

rock22

GerardKeating wrote: »

so Basically, YOU are paying the ex's share, and building up equity in the house for them.

Are they not staying rent free in the ex's house?

seamus

lifeandtimes wrote: »

im sorry but where did come to this conclusion?

My partner and the ex relationship broke down and the ex left, he was not refused access to the home, bought have moved on with their lives, however the ex has refused to make payment for the mortgage of the last 5 years

Try not to take it personally - CarawayStick's post was a legal hypothetical - language such as "preventing one of the actual owners from the enjoyment of that land" is legalese rather than a statement about what you've actually been doing.

You can see why legal processes can put serious strain on people. In order to get you the best outcome, your own solicitor would make the argument in court that you were, "preventing one of the actual owners from the enjoyment of that land", while you have to suck it up and sit there seething.

Barristers and solicitors often have clients lose the plot at them about the semantics of what's being said in court rather than seeing the big picture and understanding that it's just how a situation should be presented to the court to get the best outcome.

MouseTail

is the ex the father of your partners two children? If so this should all have been sorted as part of a maintenance agreement.

lifeandtimes

MouseTail wrote: »

is the ex the father of your partners two children? If so this should all have been sorted as part of a maintenance agreement.

i dont think mortgage payments ever become involved in maintenance payments, the cost of the mortgage is irrelevant to the day to day cost of the child

GerardKeating

rock22 wrote: »

Are they not staying rent free in the ex's house?

Did not OP not mention that they were paying rent.

MouseTail

lifeandtimes wrote: »

i dont think mortgage payments ever become involved in maintenance payments, the cost of the mortgage is irrelevant to the day to day cost of the child

Of course its relevant, the cost of housing the child(ren) is factored into maintenance.

Taboola

lifeandtimes wrote: »

i dont think mortgage payments ever become involved in maintenance payments, the cost of the mortgage is irrelevant to the day to day cost of the child

Do you not think the day to day costs of the child include putting a roof over their head?

lifeandtimes

Taboola wrote: »

Do you not think the day to day costs of the child include putting a roof over their head?

no cost of a roof over a childs head is not considered. It is for food,clothes,doctors,dentist,school etc

If a couple have a mortgage of 1400, they split it of 700 each. if they seperate one remains in the house and the other leaves, both are still obligate to pay their mortgage regardless of children or not.

If a couple split with no mortgage and the mother is renting and rent was a say put in the maintenance payments, say a new partner moved in with the mother should the father have a right to reduce the payments as new person is living there? would the child then benefit?

So no roof over a childs head are not used in maintenance

Taboola

lifeandtimes wrote: »

no cost of a roof over a childs head is not considered. It is for food,clothes,doctors,dentist,school etc

If a couple have a mortgage of 1400, they split it of 700 each. if they seperate one remains in the house and the other leaves, both are still obligate to pay their mortgage regardless of children or not.

If a couple split with no mortgage and the mother is renting and rent was a say put in the maintenance payments, say a new partner moved in with the mother should the father have a right to reduce the payments as new person is living there? would the child then benefit?

So no roof over a childs head are not used in maintenance

You're actually having a laugh are you? Maintenance is used to cover the costs of raising a child and you can't raise a child homeless.

tinofapples

Shermanator wrote:

If you and your partner continue to pay the mortgage the bank will be quite happy to accept the payment. They really dont care where the payments come from. However, you are now in a precarious position whereby your partners ex still has a 50% share in the house and would be entitled to force a sale at any stage. He would also be entitled to a 50% share in any equity your'e partner has built up in the property over the years. You however currently have no legal claim on the property. You need to rectify this legally asap

This is the most important part you'll read in this thread. I hope your partner has evidence that they have made the majority of the repayments, vital that ye sort this out. Picture the scene after the 30 yrs are up, your partner has paid most of the repayments yet both are listed as homeowners 😖

MouseTail

lifeandtimes wrote: »

no cost of a roof over a childs head is not considered. It is for food,clothes,doctors,dentist,school etc

If a couple have a mortgage of 1400, they split it of 700 each. if they seperate one remains in the house and the other leaves, both are still obligate to pay their mortgage regardless of children or not.

If a couple split with no mortgage and the mother is renting and rent was a say put in the maintenance payments, say a new partner moved in with the mother should the father have a right to reduce the payments as new person is living there? would the child then benefit?

So no roof over a childs head are not used in maintenance

You are making decisions based on incorrect information both regarding the mortgage and maintenance. Your partner really needs to get legal advice on both issues.

lifeandtimes

Anyway putting aside the maintenance debate.

My partner met with the bank today,outcome is they are happy that it was brought to their attention that there may be an issue in the future

They have provided a few options to the situation. These restructuring the mortgage by changing the length and reducing the overall repayments,selling the house etc

They have confirmed that it is both who will be liable for the payments,how ever if payments start to fail they will be contact with both parties and if one party is showing to be paying they will chase up the other party to see what is going on with them,are they going to pay and what they plan on doing. If the other party doesn't play ball it will be brought to court and as long as my partner has proof that they are paying this will work better for them in court and the situation in front of the judge etc

So my partner and i have a few things to consider on how we go further,I would like to thank everyone for the input

rock22

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Anyway putting aside the maintenance debate.

My partner met with the bank today,....

.... it will be brought to court and as long as my partner has proof that they are paying this will work better for them in court and the situation in front of the judge etc

I would see a solicitor. Don't rely on a bank for legal advice.

lifeandtimes

rock22 wrote: »

I would see a solicitor. Don't rely on a bank for legal advice.

Yep, as most other advice on this thread says we will be speaking to a solicitor, if theres one things to go by the guy in the bank was very helpful and curtious,explained that she is not the only person in this situation and there are options

haveringchick

rock22 wrote: »

I would see a solicitor. Don't rely on a bank for legal advice.

The Bank will say anything to encourage someone, anyone at all actually, to keep paying that mortgage
The OP and partner need to invest in a solicitor well experienced in family law

Sound Bite

OP, several people have give you advice her but you seem happier to rely on bank opinion which appears inaccurate and has no legal standing.

You need legal advice from a Solicitor...not from boards, not from the bank, not from anyone other than a qualified legal professional.

Mortgage debt is jointly and severally liable the bank do not care as to personal circumstances. ..they can pursue each and/or either party for the debt.

4ensic15

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Anyway putting aside the maintenance debate.

My partner met with the bank today,outcome is they are happy that it was brought to their attention that there may be an issue in the future

They have provided a few options to the situation. These restructuring the mortgage by changing the length and reducing the overall repayments,selling the house etc

They have confirmed that it is both who will be liable for the payments,how ever if payments start to fail they will be contact with both parties and if one party is showing to be paying they will chase up the other party to see what is going on with them,are they going to pay and what they plan on doing. If the other party doesn't play ball it will be brought to court and as long as my partner has proof that they are paying this will work better for them in court and the situation in front of the judge etc

So my partner and i have a few things to consider on how we go further,I would like to thank everyone for the input

O/P look at the published lists for Stubbs Gazette. The are multiple instances of two or more persons being made liable for the same amount of money to the same creditor. That is what joint and severally liable means. The court orders each person to pay the full amount still owing. The court has no discretion. The only discretion would be the length of a stay the court will allow. I quite frankly do not believe what you are claiming someone from the bank said.

lifeandtimes

Sound Bite wrote: »

OP, several people have give you advice her but you seem happier to rely on bank opinion which appears inaccurate and has no legal standing.

You need legal advice from a Solicitor...not from boards, not from the bank, not from anyone other than a qualified legal professional.

Mortgage debt is jointly and severally liable the bank do not care as to personal circumstances. ..they can pursue each and/or either party for the debt.

So as you say the bank will pursue both parties, the fact my partner has paid all the mortgage up until now,my partner may as well not pay any more of mortgage as the bank will still seek the remainder from both parties and still ultimately it will mean nothing?

Granted im not saying you are saying that but at the end of the day if it ends up in court both parties are liable this would be the ultimate end regardless of who has paid or not?

Either way as I have said earlier we are meeting with a solicitor but I don't see the outcome being very good

Steve

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Granted im not saying you are saying that but at the end of the day if it ends up in court both parties are liable this would be the ultimate end regardless of who has paid or not?

Legally, both are jointly liable for the debt.
If one party has paid more than the other, the judge can rule on how the debt is apportioned. Same goes if the property is sold and there is positive equity.

4ensic15

Steve wrote: »

Legally, both are jointly liable for the debt.
If one party has paid more than the other, the judge can rule on how the debt is apportioned. Same goes if the property is sold and there is positive equity.

The judge cannot apportion the debt where there is joint and several liability. Look at Stubbs gazette. Judgement in the full amount is entered against each party.
What a judge can do is apportion the equity in the house according as to the contributions towards the mortgage payments and that is what the o/p should be looking at.