M11 and M50 lane hogging.

JumpShivers

My boyfriend and I decided to take a day trip to Bray today. This involves a short stint on the M1 southbound, travelling the entire length of the M50, then a short trip on the M11.
I have encountered lane hogging before and been slightly miffed by it but today took the p1ss. The standard of driving on the M50 and M11 is horrendous. Has anyone encountered this before on the M11 before or was it just your usual Sunday drivers today dawdling along?

Most (and I mean most, as in 90% of cars were in either the middle or overtaking lanes). I can somewhat understand the cars that were in the overtaking lanes as they might have been overtaking the convoy of vehicles sitting in the middle lane.

In order for us to drive legally, we had to indicate right as we approached the middle lane hogger, move in behind them, turn of indicator, observe, indicate again, move into the outside lane, overtake the middle lane hogger, observe, indicate left, move into the middle lane on front of the hogger, observe again and indicate again and move back into the inside lane. This was repeated ad nauseum.

This makes driving in Ireland a very stressful experience. What does everyone else do?
Do you undertake? Do you do the three-lane manoeuvre? Or do you beep and flash to get them to move?

goz83

Overtake parade of middle lane hoggers

Engage auto drive

Open sun roof

remove grenade launcher from passenger seat

fire at lead offending middle lane hogger

watch the glorious destruction in the rear view mirror.

Atlantic Dawn

When you have the AA in regular traffic updates and Gardaí in court refer to the overtaking lane as the fast lane you know the county is a basket case.

johnnyskeleton

JumpShivers wrote: »

What does everyone else do?
Do you undertake? Do you do the three-lane manoeuvre? Or do you beep and flash to get them to move?

Im not sure that the rules of the road requires you to doggedly stick to the left hand lane at all times.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

Lane 2 of a 3 lane can be used for driving when there is slow moving traffic in lane 1. On the M50, with all the junctions and lorries, you can be pretty much guaranteed a constant stream of slow moving traffic in lane 1.

So whether this is technically right or wrong, it is what most drivers do on the M50 and some other 3 laners e.g. Naas road to newlands cross.


Ive never been in a scenario on those roads where there is only me and another driver on the 3 lane motorway, the other driver is in lane 2 and is driving slower than me, but in such a situationI would overtake in lane 3 and then move back.

Undertaking is not inherently dangerous, but the amount of drivers who never check their left hand wing mirror and cut you off is phenominal.

Its very off putting when someone on your left is travelling at high speeds. I find going to the airport from the M1 Northbound is a nightmare. Theres about 500m between the M1/M50 junction and youve to cross 2 merging lanes from the M50 to get to the one lane turning off for the airport. When youre doing 100kph and the M50 people are doing 120 its a daunting prospect

N7 is the same. Move from lane one to lane two to lane three to overtake middle lane hogger, then move back to lane two and back to lane one.

I don't find it stressful, but I've had people pull out in front of me (in the left most lane from the M7) at the naas exit going north bound where the N7 becomes three lanes.

Shane Fitz

"Its very off putting when someone on your left is travelling at high speeds. I find going to the airport from the M1 Northbound is a nightmare. Theres about 500m between the M1/M50 junction and youve to cross 2 merging lanes from the M50 to get to the one lane turning off for the airport. When youre doing 100kph and the M50 people are doing 120 its a daunting prospect[/quote]"

And there in lies your problem. That stretch of M1 is 80kmh. And the slip off the M50 is similar if not slower.

coylemj

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Lane 2 of a 3 lane can be used for driving when there is slow moving traffic in lane 1. On the M50, with all the junctions and lorries, you can be pretty much guaranteed a constant stream of slow moving traffic in lane 1.

That's the self-serving excuse used by the middle-lane hogger - 'sure the traffic in the inside lane is is moving slowly so I'll stay out here all day in the middle lane.' The only problem is that the inside lane is usually empty.

The problem with your proposition is that on the M50 there is very little in the way of 'slow moving traffic' - which by the way is a relative term and where there is (relatively) 'slow moving traffic', most of it is sitting stubbornly in the middle lane.

visual

Lane hogging on M50 will never be addressed as new plan will be variable speed restrictions and in some bazaar way has endorsed such bad driving.

Garda and RSA must not see it as a problem as it is totally ignored for such a long time that the same drivers daily repeat this offence and fail to obey the first and most important rule of the road drive on the left give way to traffic on your right.

My approach is to just go straight into the right-most lane and put the foot down (regardless of whether it's a 2 or 3 lane motorway). I just stay there until I see someone in my mirror closing in on me, at which point I move to lane 2 until they've approached and passed, and then go back to the rightmost lane and continue my overtaking (assuming I'm not stuck behind someone doing 70km/h in the rightmost lane! :mad: ).

The temptation to undertake is quite strong on the M50. Oftentimes I've been sat in the middle or right lane and been crawling along, while the left-most lane is practically empty.

Jesus.

JumpShivers wrote: »

In order for us to drive legally, we had to indicate right as we approached the middle lane hogger, move in behind them, turn of indicator, observe, indicate again, move into the outside lane, overtake the middle lane hogger, observe, indicate left, move into the middle lane on front of the hogger, observe again and indicate again and move back into the inside lane. This was repeated ad nauseum.

Did you seriously do that?

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

Oftentimes I've been sat in the middle or right lane and been crawling along, while the left-most lane is practically empty.

That's you and 90% of the drivers on the M50.

Who do you think should be driving in the left lane?

coylemj

JumpShivers wrote: »

In order for us to drive legally, we had to indicate right as we approached the middle lane hogger, move in behind them, turn of indicator, observe, indicate again, move into the outside lane, overtake the middle lane hogger, observe, indicate left, move into the middle lane on front of the hogger, observe again and indicate again and move back into the inside lane. This was repeated ad nauseum.

Jesus. wrote: »

Did you seriously do that?

The alternative is to undertake in the left lane which is illegal on a motorway. The cops are more likely to pull you over for undertaking than for hogging the middle lane all day long.

Jesus.

coylemj wrote: »

The alternative is to undertake in the left lane which is illegal on a motorway. The cops are more likely to pull you over for undertaking than for hogging the middle lane all day long.

They are not likely to do so at all so you shouldn't scaremonger. They've never done it to me in 20 years of driving that road. And I undertake scores of vehicles on a daily basis.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

That's you and 90% of the drivers on the M50.

Who do you think should be driving in the left lane?

Well it's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it?

If I go into the undertaking lane I'm following the rules of the road by driving in the correct lane, but I'm breaking the rules of the road by undertaking.

If I sit in the right-most lane my overtakes (where possible) will be legal, but I'm adding to the already-messy situation of no one knowing what's going on around them.



So with the above in mind, when I'm on the M50 I ignore the rules of the road and instead ponder "what would I be less likely to be nailed to the wall for if seen by a Garda?". So 'following the crowd' seems the best option in terms of avoiding a potential fine for undertaking or driving without due care (or whatever they'd do you for).


One of the more annoying aspects is looking in your mirror and seeing an Ambulance approaching on blues. And instead of sitting in the rightmost lane with everyone moving in, instead you see it swaying in and out of lanes and hopping back and forth, under and over taking at will.

But it's partly the M50's fault. They have massive electronic signs. Why not write 'keep left unless overtaking' on them by default? Instead of the tired seatbelts save lives or speeding kills stuff that everyone's already had drilled into their heads!

Jesus.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Ive never been in a scenario on those roads where there is only me and another driver on the 3 lane motorway, the other driver is in lane 2 and is driving slower than me, but in such a situationI would overtake in lane 3 and then move back.

That is unusual because if you drive the M50 any single night you will come up on numerous cars on their own sitting in the middle lane doing less than 60mph. It happened me only earlier this night when I came upon a white Transit who was doing around 55 while I approached him gradually, doing 62. I passed him slowly on the inside and when I had passed he flashed me :rolleyes:

Coming from Galway recently I also came upon a guy sitting in the outside lane without a sinner in lane one. I undertook him and I saw him put up his arm as if to say 'what are you doing?'

OP just undertake the lot of 'em. Doing what you're doing is more dangerous & it doesn't make the hoggers change their behaviour one iota.

Jesus.

***Double post***

pablo128

Undertake them to fcuk. You are risking your safety weaving across lanes to overtake the clowns. And if you are sticking in lane 1 and passing vehicles that are to your right, it's not undertaking, and legal.

If you are able to undertake someone, usually they are in the wrong lane anyway.

visual

pablo128 wrote: »

Undertake them to fcuk. You are risking your safety weaving across lanes to overtake the clowns. And if you are sticking in lane 1 and passing vehicles that are to your right, it's not undertaking, and legal.

If you are able to undertake someone, usually they are in the wrong lane anyway.

Garda and courts would not share you definition of being legal but I suspect you already know this.

Jesus.

visual wrote: »

Garda and courts would not share you definition of being legal but I suspect you already know this.

Not everything is dictated by a rule book. If that were the case there'd be little or no lane hoggers

worded

It's just bananas
http://youtu.be/RLQXVlaWTto

Muppet Man

Jesus. wrote: »

They are not likely to do so at all so you shouldn't scaremonger. They've never done it to me in 20 years of driving that road. And I undertake scores of vehicles on a daily basis.

Has Happened to me twice. Once was a court appearance and a 50 pound fine (yes, a while ago now) and the second time was a verbal lashing at the side of the road. Just saying like....

Jesus.

Fair enough Muppet. I wish they'd pick on the hoggers instead

daisyday121

I'm a bit confused, I always thought that undertaking was deliberately moving left round a car, eg if it was turning right. If I'm reading it right, it's also passing a car whilst in the left lane?? If so that seems crazy that if you're safely doing the speed limit and the car in the middle lane is slow that you're in the wrong?

visual

that's the problem in a nutshell lane hogging doesn't get addressed.

I seen a middle age woman many times drive from Dublin to Nass in 3 lane at 80KPH with a line of cars behind her. I was caught up a few cars back and was seriously considering moving to lane 2 or 1 both clear to undertake but spotted a white helmet of a motorcycle guard a couple of cars back. I thought that's the ideal vehicle to zoom up front and deal with the issue.

One poor sod decided to move to lane 2 then to lane 1 and slowly undertake and the motorcycle cop pounced and done him.

I'm sure this woman gives out about tailgating and probably tells everyone that driving on the N7 is full of impatient drivers and is totally convinced she doing no wrong.

daisyday121

visual wrote: »

One poor sod decided to move to lane 2 then to lane 1 and slowly undertake and the motorcycle cop pounced and done him.

but if lane 2 and 1 were clear surely that where he was supposed to be driving. Mind is blown here by the sheer lack of logic to this!

Jesus.

daisyday121 wrote: »

but if lane 2 and 1 were clear surely that where he was supposed to be driving!

Yes it should be but Cops don't seem to care if you hog a lane. They've not pulled me for undertaking but it looks like a couple of the lads have been done so they're not doing their jobs right in this area imo

Dawn Rider

A cop I know told me he's done drivers who undertake for either dangerous driving or for undue care and attention.
He said one case he was involved in where the lane two driver crashed in to a guy passing in lane one. The L2 driver said he didn't expect anybody to be there, glanced in the mirror and was 'shocked' to find a car in his blind spot.
L2 driver got off Scot free, and L1 got a conviction....

I do undertake from time to time but always hope to get through before the pr1ck wakes up.

visual

daisyday121 wrote: »

but if lane 2 and 1 were clear surely that where he was supposed to be driving. Mind is blown here by the sheer lack of logic to this!

Drive on left over take on right simple .

Approach car in over taking lane ahead what lane should you be in if you want to overtake

Mind blowing !

The sad fact was motorcycle cop held back knowing someone would undertake. Instead of dealing with the root cause.

Dawn Rider

visual wrote: »

Drive on left over take on right simple .

Approach car in over taking lane ahead what lane should you be in if you want to overtake

Mind blowing !

Apparently you're supposed to drive a safe distance behind him with the indicator on and hope the twat moves over...

If you blow the horn or flash your lights you are seen as being aggressive...

landmarkjohn

I often have the dilemma in lane 3 where in another 10 seconds I will be overtaking a truck in lane 2 but the guy behind me is tailgating and I am not going fast enough to appease him.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

They are not likely to do so at all so you shouldn't scaremonger. They've never done it to me in 20 years of driving that road. And I undertake scores of vehicles on a daily basis.

Yeah, but they don't fcuk with the Jesus.

mjsc1970

Ok. We're on a virtually empty M50 driving legally at 100k in lane 1.
Way up ahead there is a yorrick in lane 2 and lane 3 going 95k. So, what would a cop have you do?
Slow down and never pass them on the inside or move behind one of them and still never pass them coz yer not allowed flash your lights at them?
Ffs that's nuts. Surely continue at 100k in lane 1 and pass both the eejits while observing and anticipating that either of them could drop in to lane 1 at a moments notice.
Like someone said earlier the cop took the easy option of booking the lane 1 driver rather than dealing with the real problem of lane hogging.

grogi

visual wrote: »

Garda and courts would not share you definition of being legal but I suspect you already know this.

Actually it is legal:

(you can overtake from the left if) Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

The Bishop Basher

Patww79 wrote: »

I think the definition of slowly in that case is at a crawl though.

Has it actually been defined in law ? It still seems very open to interpretation...

I find it can be almost impossible to maintain correct lane discipline on the M50 due to the sheer volume of arseholes hogging the centre lane. So if you want to get anywhere at a reasonable speed you're forced to either sit in the outside lane or undertake on the inside. I'll do either once it's safe but things would move so much better if someone could educate the morons and start fining them heavily when they're caught.

It's a guaranteed stresser every time you go near that poxy road.

visual

grogi wrote: »

Actually it is legal:

(you can overtake from the left if) Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Come on you know that applies to slowly moving traffic like in rush hour traffic where traffic is extremely slow and queuing. Not when traveling close to speed limit

It's been debated to death what undertaking or more correctly overtaking on the left is.

savagethegoat

I was once told that everything has only one arsehole..... not true, the Naas Rd has dozens.

dr.fuzzenstein

savagethegoat wrote: »

I was once told that everything has only one arsehole..... not true, the Naas Rd has dozens.

What's the difference between a snake and a snake of cars? The snake has the arsehole at the rear...

Toyotafanboi

Not too sure where this tangent is going, but the only real way to make any progress on the M50 i find is to stay in lane 2 and use lane 3 to overtake. obviously being conscious of real lane discipline and if there is an opportunity to spend a meaningful amount of time in land 1, then i'd do so.

if you actually try to carry out the practice of driving in lane 1, you are never off the indicator, in, out, in, out, in, out, in, out... it's like a movie i seen once when i was younger. when you are in lane one, you are in one of three situations, stuck behind an artic doing 75km/h, stuck behind a Hyundai Matrix being driven by a dead person doing 55km/h or about to get snarled up in some over eager merging exercise by a fella in a 318d. or some combination of all 3.

it's unfortunate and it is wrong, but i find, that's how it is.

Toyotafanboi

Not too sure where this tangent is going, but the only real way to make any progress on the M50 i find is to stay in lane 2 and use lane 3 to overtake. obviously being conscious of real lane discipline and if there is an opportunity to spend a meaningful amount of time in land 1, then i'd do so.

if you actually try to carry out the practice of driving in lane 1, you are never off the indicator, in, out, in, out, in, out, in, out... it's like a movie i seen once when i was younger. when you are in lane one, you are in one of three situations, stuck behind an artic doing 75km/h, stuck behind a Hyundai Matrix being driven by a dead person doing 55km/h or about to get snarled up in some over eager merging exercise by a fella in a 318d. or some combination of all 3 and then you can't get back into lane 2 because you are doing 60km/h and lane 2 is noving at 110km/h so there is never a gap big enough to safely take.

it's unfortunate and it is wrong, but i find, that's how it is.

Jesus.

I don't know Fanboi. I find there's large chunks of time I can spend in lane 1 while undertaking a whole rake of them in lane 2. Yes there are times that if you try to stick left all the time you'd be jumping in and out the whole time because there's so many merging lanes on that road. But its not always like that. Especially when you're at off-peak times you could spend chunks of 5 minutes at a time in lane one and take out a dozen lane 2 cars in the process.

Toyotafanboi

i agree. it's been years since i've had to use the M50 at commuter times, bar one day last week, before that it had been years.

generally if i'm on it now, we are going to the city shopping of a Sunday or the airport etc and you'd be right. you can be breezing along in lane 1 at 120km/h happy out with no traffic in sight, then round a bend and find 3 cars scrunched up together doing 90-100km/h in lane 2 or 3 and just think "what the **** is any of those people thinking".

munchkin_utd

mjsc1970 wrote: »

Ok. We're on a virtually empty M50 driving legally at 100k in lane 1.
Way up ahead there is a yorrick in lane 2 and lane 3 going 95k. So, what would a cop have you do?
Slow down and never pass them on the inside or move behind one of them and still never pass them coz yer not allowed flash your lights at them?
Ffs that's nuts. Surely continue at 100k in lane 1 and pass both the eejits while observing and anticipating that either of them could drop in to lane 1 at a moments notice.
Like someone said earlier the cop took the easy option of booking the lane 1 driver rather than dealing with the real problem of lane hogging.

actually, the legal way if theres an auxiliary lane is to do 100k down it (essentially lane zero), as if you are planning to exit, but just then "change your mind" and come back in beyond the offending lane hoggers.

100% legal way of overtaking on the inside.

HeidiHeidi

I drive reasonably regularly on the M50 at all times of the day and night - and it's a bloody nightmare. The M7 also, especially on the three-lane section.

Without slaloming across all three lanes every 30 seconds or so, it's next to impossible to drive correctly on a three-lane road these days.

I've just sent an email to M50 concessions (info@m50concession.com) passing on that suggestion from earlier in the thread about putting a message up on their gantry signs - it's a great idea! Maybe if others did the same it might get some little ball rolling?

Tried to send it to the RSA about all the other motorways, but they don't seem to have recovered from the recent DDOS attack yet! But I'll be forwarding my email to them when they're back in action.

Of all the things that annoy me on the road, bad lane discipline is up there at the top of the pile :mad:

ironclaw

Its a good idea HeidiHeidi, but ultimately flawed. If you put a message up saying 'Keep left' people will assume you meant Lane 2. RTE News recently carried a story about the variable speed limits, and in the comments, people held the steadfast belief that Lane 1 is for Trucks and Buses or, you have to move out at every junction so you may as well stay in Lane 2. You can't tell people to do something if they are not aware their current behaviour is wrong.

The ONLY way to solve this is rigorous enforcement so John down the pub tells his mates he was pulled for 'incorrect use of lanes' and a widespread, appropriate advertising campaign. That campaign needs to be very cleverly thought out and delivered, people need to understand why its a problem or they will continue to do it. I've struggled with a few concepts but honestly bringing it down to neanderthal level is proving difficult. The best I came up with was a social media campaign where you flag photos and registrations, and upload to social media. At least if peoples friends start tagging / tweeting about it, then it may ram it home.

ironclaw

Its a good idea HeidiHeidi, but ultimately flawed. If you put a message up saying 'Keep left' people will assume you meant Lane 2. RTE News recently carried a story about the variable speed limits, and in the comments, people held the steadfast belief that Lane 1 is for Trucks and Buses or, you have to move out at every junction so you may as well stay in Lane 2. You can't tell people to do something if they are not aware their current behaviour is wrong.

The ONLY way to solve this is rigorous enforcement so John down the pub tells his mates he was pulled for 'incorrect use of lanes' and a widespread, appropriate advertising campaign. That campaign needs to be very cleverly thought out and delivered, people need to understand why its a problem or they will continue to do it. I've struggled with a few concepts but honestly bringing it down to neanderthal level is proving difficult. The best I came up with was a social media campaign where you flag photos and registrations, and upload to social media. At least if peoples friends start tagging / tweeting about it, then it may ram it home.

Jesus.

ironclaw wrote: »

The best I came up with was a social media campaign where you flag photos and registrations, and upload to social media.

I agreed with you up until this point. That is not a good idea. Getting people to try and police each other is asking for trouble and is not something that should be encouraged. Its up to the Govt to inform people and the Cops to enforce. The kind of scheme you've proposed there tends to attract the wrong type of people.

_Kaiser_

I generally alternate between 2 and 3 for much the same reason as Fanboi mentions - using Lane 1 on a busy road like the M50 (unless you're driving an artic or oblivious to the world around you) is a very stressful experience with boy racers trying to force their way in front of you, people diving across from other lanes at the last minute to get to an exit, and of course the slower pace caused by the trucks.

So I sit as far away from that as possible and drive steadily in the middle/outer lanes.. nor do I lane weave. If there's a line of cars coming up I'll move out and pass the lot of them before I move back.
I equally don't indulge tailgating asshats, or the undertaking tools who try to force their way in as they zoom between gaps. I have to laugh again at the posters here defending it.. you'll say that right until some idiot who's not paying attention in the lane on your right pulls over on top of you as they go for their exit!

But all that said, I rarely have an issue I have to say - I don't dawdle, I indicate in good time EVERY time (even at 1am on a deserted motorway) and I don't hesitate when there's a clear and safe opportunity to manoeuvre ... though for balance to the M50 - I was in Cork at the weekend and stuck behind a woman in a Passat estate who merged onto the N40/25 (their M50) at about 70 and continued doing 70 as she moved over to the middle lane with cars rapidly bearing down on her. As she cut me off by doing so my displeasure was made known. I have very little tolerance for muppetry in general. Driving in Cork is worse in some ways in fact because practically NONE of them bloody indicate - ever!

Jesus.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I equally don't indulge tailgating asshats, or the undertaking tools who try to force their way in as they zoom between gaps. I have to laugh again at the posters here defending it!

Kaiser you are in the wrong. Those 'tools' wouldn't be undertaking you if you weren't in wrong lane to begin with

_Kaiser_

Jesus. wrote: »

Kaiser you are in the wrong. Those 'tools' wouldn't be undertaking you if you weren't in wrong lane to begin with

I'm talking about the sort who weave across 3 lanes into too narrow gaps in their pursuit to get a car length ahead. I don't encourage that kind of shyte by allowing them to cut me off as well.

But given that most drivers seem to be incapable of doing the posted limit when there's no reason not to, or maintaining a consistent speed, it's actually pretty rare that 'I'm overtaken to begin with.

Jesus.

Yes but Kaiser you shouldn't be sitting in lane two