Fed up with bought fresh herbs

twignme

A bit of a rant about the quality of fresh herbs available these days :mad:

When did they become so weedy and taste of nothing? I remember the days when a pot of coriander had good strongly flavoured leaves, stems that were capable of holding them up on their own without the help of the plastic sleeve and just touching them created the most glorious scent.

What do we have now? It doesn't matter which herb it is, they are just pots or bags of fresh air that disintegrate into nothing when they are chopped, die after a day on the windowsill and do nothing in the way of adding any flavour to a recipe.

I grow my own when possible but I am getting seriously cheesed off about having to rely on the overpriced, tasteless, juvenile, pathetic supermarket offerings. Oh for the big fresh bunches of herbs that are scented, tasty, fresh and grown with care that you can pick up in any market in other countries in Europe that care about good food.
Rant over, thanks.

Buona Fortuna

My biggest gripe is bay leaves (dried) but whatever brand they seem to have hardly any flavour to them.

Alf Veedersane

In relation to them dying quickly, it's usually cos the pots are too small so best to transfer to a bigger pot when you get them home.

I'd also imagine that there aren't enough nutrients for all the herbs in the small amount of soil so there's not flavour in them by the time they get to the supermarket

twignme

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In relation to them dying quickly, it's usually cos the pots are too small so best to transfer to a bigger pot when you get them home.

I'd also imagine that there aren't enough nutrients for all the herbs in the small amount of soil so there's not flavour in them by the time they get to the supermarket

I agree that may work but after paying the extortionate amount to buy a pot in the first place, I don't really feel that I should then have the job of re-potting it just for one more day's use. Having said that, the usable amount you now get in one pot means that instead of having enough to last a couple of days it all gets used in one go anyway :mad:

If the rest of Europe can provide enough nutrients for their fresh herbs to last MUCH longer there, even when they are sold already cut in bunches, why can't that be done here? Why are we putting up with this deterioration in quality while paying through the nose for it. Remember what happened to tomatoes?

Alf Veedersane

twignme wrote: »

If the rest of Europe can provide enough nutrients for their fresh herbs to last MUCH longer there, even when they are sold already cut in bunches, why can't that be done here? Why are we putting up with this deterioration in quality while paying through the nose for it. Remember what happened to tomatoes?

More than likely they're not growing them in the small pots but rather transferring bunches to the pots.

Better off buying them in a garden centre if you want to buy them grown.

IvyTheTerrible

twignme wrote: »

I agree that may work but after paying the extortionate amount to buy a pot in the first place, I don't really feel that I should then have the job of re-potting it just for one more day's use. Having said that, the usable amount you now get in one pot means that instead of having enough to last a couple of days it all gets used in one go anyway :mad:

If the rest of Europe can provide enough nutrients for their fresh herbs to last MUCH longer there, even when they are sold already cut in bunches, why can't that be done here? Why are we putting up with this deterioration in quality while paying through the nose for it. Remember what happened to tomatoes?

I always split pots of herbs and they last more than one day. Once they get more space, they spread out and grow better so you get more out of them.
It's important to remove any buds before they flower, flowering diverts energy away from leaves and changes the taste of the remaining leaves, and reduces lifespan.

twignme

I really do understand the whole concept of re-potting, I'm a reasonable gardener and as I mentioned, I grow my own when I can.
The point I'm trying to make is that I buy a pot when I need the herb that day or the next for a recipe, I pay an over the top price for it and it tastes of nothing. It is weak, spindly and tasteless when a few years back it would have been herby, scented and strong. So, it could be done before but it's just such a money spinner now for the growing companies that we are being sold, and are buying by the truckload, rubbish products. I'm just amazed that we (including me) are putting up with it.
Sadly, where I live the garden centre doesn't sell anything at all like this.

Alf Veedersane

Unfortunately, like a lot of stuff supermarkets sell, they charge a premium for convenience and then multiply that premium when it comes to items with the illusion of freshness and quality.

IvyTheTerrible

twignme wrote: »

I really do understand the whole concept of re-potting, I'm a reasonable gardener and as I mentioned, I grow my own when I can.
The point I'm trying to make is that I buy a pot when I need the herb that day or the next for a recipe, I pay an over the top price for it and it tastes of nothing. It is weak, spindly and tasteless when a few years back it would have been herby, scented and strong. So, it could be done before but it's just such a money spinner now for the growing companies that we are being sold, and are buying by the truckload, rubbish products. I'm just amazed that we (including me) are putting up with it.
Sadly, where I live the garden centre doesn't sell anything at all like this.

An alternative is to buy seeds and plant your own. I know it's a bit more work but it can be worth it.
A tip for coriander is to plant a lot of it, because unlike basil, it doesn't regrow where you cut it.

twignme

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

An alternative is to buy seeds and plant your own. I know it's a bit more work but it can be worth it.

I appreciate your advice Ivy but as I have mentioned already, I do grow my own when possible. I also bake my own bread, make my own jam as well as other things but that doesn't prevent me from occasionally needing to buy them and when I do, I expect decent quality.
Think tomatoes, chickens, a whole host of other products grown here that used to be full of flavour and texture. What we get now is nothing at all like those and this isn't some organic bandwagon I'm riding. I simply want what used to be available before the growers got greedy. Good food grown slowly with care and attention, not forced and immature, ingredients that are a pleasure to cook with and eat and not to feel that somehow I have been ripped off.

the beer revolu

Approximately €1.50 for a growing plant in a pot with compost and a plastic wrapping is extortionate? Over the top?
Really?
How much do you think they should be?
A pot of thyme in a garden centre would set you back about a fiver.
To be honest, I haven't noticed a deterioration in the quality. I usually buy in Tesco.
If I want coriander, I find the packets of cut herb better value as the pot doesn't last anyway.

Tomatoes?
The quality and choice of tomatoes is way, way better than it used to be - even out of season as we are at the moment.
I really do wonder where you are shopping.

twignme

I shop in Tesco and the cost of a pot of coriander there is around €2 and yes I do think it's over the top for a poor quality product. I don't want the pot (which I have already been advised to ditch anyway and re-pot) and I don't want the plastic. I want a loose, unpackaged bunch of herbs that has been grown well and is full of flavour as a herb should be. For that, I would pay twice the amount. Why put a bunch of herbs in a plastic packet? Because they are shipped from everywhere in the world. I just dug the packets out of the bin;
Thyme from Spain
Chives from Tanzania
Oregano from Ethiopia
Coriander from Italy.

How much of that €1.50 you spent is on shipping do you think?

I don't mind spending money on a good quality product tbr.

Phoebas

Anybody got opinions on those herbs in tubes (gourmet garden etc) as an alternative to fresh herbs?

Alf Veedersane

twignme wrote: »

I shop in Tesco and the cost of a pot of coriander there is around €2 and yes I do think it's over the top for a poor quality product. I don't want the pot (which I have already been advised to ditch anyway and re-pot) and I don't want the plastic. I want a loose, unpackaged bunch of herbs that has been grown well and is full of flavour as a herb should be. For that, I would pay twice the amount. Why put a bunch of herbs in a plastic packet? Because they are shipped from everywhere in the world. I just dug the packets out of the bin;
Thyme from Spain
Chives from Tanzania
Oregano from Ethiopia
Coriander from Italy.

How much of that €1.50 you spent is on shipping do you think?

I don't mind spending money on a good quality product tbr.

They're grown in the pots. They're shipped here because they're not grown in sufficient quantities to supply supermarkets here.

Higher costs to get to shelf means you pay more. And you pay for convenience.

twignme

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're grown in the pots. They're shipped here because they're not grown in sufficient quantities to supply supermarkets here.

Higher costs to get to shelf means you pay more. And you pay for convenience.

So, don't grow them in the pots maybe? Grow'em and then pick'em in bunches. That's what they do in other countries I don't need to have the herb growing on my windowsill, I use enough of it to just get a bunch and use that up. I understand the reason for the overseas supply chain and if there is the demand here, why not the supply from here? It looks like a licence to print money ...

But the plain fact is that the quality of these has deteriorated over the years. I may have a longer memory of what they used to be like (no old person jokes please ) and they are definitely of poorer quality than they used to be.

Alf Veedersane

twignme wrote: »

So, don't grow them in the pots maybe? Grow'em and then pick'em in bunches. That's what they do in other countries I don't need to have the herb growing on my windowsill, I use enough of it to just get a bunch and use that up. I understand the reason for the overseas supply chain and if there is the demand here, why not the supply from here? It looks like a licence to print money ...

But the plain fact is that the quality of these has deteriorated over the years. I may have a longer memory of what they used to be like (no old person jokes please ) and they are definitely of poorer quality than they used to be.

Not enough supply here yet.

And growing in the pots cuts labour costs to growing and then potting

twignme

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

And growing in the pots cuts labour costs to growing and then potting

It's probably me not being clear, but I thought I had mentioned a number of times that I'm not interested in having a pot

Alf Veedersane

twignme wrote: »

It's probably me not being clear, but I thought I had mentioned a number of times that I'm not interested in having a pot

They're not interested in what you're interested in

twignme

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're not interested in what you're interested in

Now you actually understand what I'm talking about

meeeeh

Why would you buy pots if you use them same or next day?

twignme

meeeeh wrote: »

Why would you buy pots if you use them same or next day?

Why not??

I buy pots if there are no packs available or if they look a better quality than the packs. I generally buy with my eyes rather than a shopping list.

I'm finding it quite interesting to discover that I seem to be the only one who thinks the quality of these products has deteriorated.

meeeeh

I don't think it deteriorated, it wasn't there in the first place. Especially the types of parsley that is sold in pots is completely tasteless. But there is no point whinging and dismissing any suggestions and comparing Ireland to the mythical continent. I grew up on the continent and the best herbs like here are grown at home and possibly bought at farmers markets. Unlike tomatoes which simply don't get enough sun in Ireland, a lot of herbs can be perfectly decent here.

twignme

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think it deteriorated, it wasn't there in the first place. Especially the types of parsley that is sold in pots is completely tasteless. But there is no point whinging and dismissing any suggestions and comparing Ireland to the mythical continent. I grew up on the continent and the best herbs like here are grown at home and possibly bought at farmers markets. Unlike tomatoes which simply don't get enough sun in Ireland, a lot of herbs can be perfectly decent here.

Wow! I'm a little unhappy at being called a 'whinger'! And the Continent isn't 'mythical' is it?

I have lived there and many other places around the world and bought great bunches of fresh, tasty herbs for a quarter the price of these here. I haven't 'dismissed suggestions' which mainly consisted of re-potting (which I can't see the point of with my usage) or growing my own (which I stated clearly on a number of occasions that I do already when possible).

So meeeeh, you say the quality wasn't there in the first place and then say a lot of herbs can be perfectly decent? Which?

My point from the beginning is that they used to be good and now they aren't. If that's a 'whinge', so be it.

meeeeh

I ment herbs grown at home are better the same as on the continent. I won't argue that herbs , fruit or veg are very expensive in Ireland but supermarket stuff is lower quality every where.

the beer revolu

I'm almost certain that all the growing herbs in pots in Tesco are of Irish origin.

You never answered the tomato issue.
I remember tomatoes in the 80s and early 90s.
They were awful, hard, tasteless and only one type - tomatoes.
Now we have choice and many of them have flavour. In season, Irish tomatoes are often very good.

You can get bunches of coriander in Asian shops but the packets in the supermarketsare usually fresher with better flavour.

If you have such a problem with the pots, just buy the packets. Like you, I wish food in supermarkets wasn't always in plastic but that's the reality of modern distribution of cheap, year round food.
Buying fresh herbs in January, in Ireland?
What do you expect?

I think you need to shop exclusively in farmer's markets and/or grow your own.

It seems that no one here has the same experience with supermarket herbs and tomatoes as you.

meeeeh

Tomatoes are not great in Ireland. The variety makes very little difference, in season tomatoes in hot (sunny) countries are miles better (those not in season are not great anywhere). A lot of recipes for Italian cooking find the use of good quality tinned tomatoes preferable to fresh non ripe ones.

twignme

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm almost certain that all the growing herbs in pots in Tesco are of Irish origin.

You never answered the tomato issue.
I remember tomatoes in the 80s and early 90s.
They were awful, hard, tasteless and only one type - tomatoes.
Now we have choice and many of them have flavour. In season, Irish tomatoes are often very good.

You can get bunches of coriander in Asian shops but the packets in the supermarketsare usually fresher with better flavour.

If you have such a problem with the pots, just buy the packets. Like you, I wish food in supermarkets wasn't always in plastic but that's the reality of modern distribution of cheap, year round food.
Buying fresh herbs in January, in Ireland?
What do you expect?

I think you need to shop exclusively in farmer's markets and/or grow your own.

It seems that no one here has the same experience with supermarket herbs and tomatoes as you.

Thank you. My comments about tomatoes and chicken in my previous posts refer (probably too obtusely) to the time between them being brilliant and then subsequently becoming tasteless due to a flooding of the market by producers to satisfy a demand for cheaper food, no matter what the consequence to the product itself. The realisation by consumers that food can actually taste of something if it's produced with care and the subtle pressure that ensued has resulted in both of those improving in quality. The producers certainly didn't do it because they are nice guys. However, if you look at the tesco's tomatoes that are the 'premium' varieties that are supposed to taste better i.e. like tomatoes used to taste, they are much more expensive but show it can be done. You said earlier that Irish tomatoes even out of season are quite good yet you scoff at the idea of fresh herbs in January. I have no problem with them being shipped in as long as their journey was worth it.

I live in the midlands, so I'm not sure what access you have personally to products like this at markets, but I don't have any. Great regular veg and really good fish but that's it. I can get a great big bunch of fresh dill at my local Polish supermarket for about €1 so it seems it can be done.

Yes, it certainly seems I'm a voice in the wilderness about this so I guess I will thank everyone for their feedback and I am happy to have been able to express my opinion. 'Nuff said.

the beer revolu

meeeeh wrote: »

Tomatoes are not great in Ireland. The variety makes very little difference, in season tomatoes in hot (sunny) countries are miles better (those not in season are not great anywhere). A lot of recipes for Italian cooking find the use of good quality tinned tomatoes preferable to fresh non ripe ones.

Of course tomatoes in Ireland arent going to compare to tomatoes in hot sunny countries. I was just making the point that the tomatoes available in Ireland now are far superior to what was available a decade or more ago.

twignme wrote: »

You said earlier that Irish tomatoes even out of season are quite good yet you scoff at the idea of fresh herbs in January. )

I actually said that in season Irish tomatoes are quite good.
But,anyway, I had misunderstood the point you were making about tomatoes.

twignme

the beer revolu wrote: »

Tomatoes?
The quality and choice of tomatoes is way, way better than it used to be - even out of season as we are at the moment.

the beer revolu wrote: »

I actually said that in season Irish tomatoes are quite good.
But,anyway, I had misunderstood the point you were making about tomatoes.

Your first quote here is the one I was referring to although I appreciate you didn't say 'good'.

the beer revolu

twignme wrote: »

Your first quote here is the one I was referring to although I appreciate you didn't say 'good'.

Or Irish

Minder

twignme wrote: »

Why not??

I buy pots if there are no packs available or if they look a better quality than the packs. I generally buy with my eyes rather than a shopping list.

I'm finding it quite interesting to discover that I seem to be the only one who thinks the quality of these products has deteriorated.

I don't know about deteriorated - they were never any good to begin with. Coriander in pots - bright green, insipid flavour, weak stemmed, leggy plant forced grown in a compost that is simply there to give the illusion of a growing medium. Give me a big bunch of dark green coriander with the roots still attached any day. It it occasionally dappled with the sandy red soil it is grown in. But like your dill, I buy that from a corner store type supermarket where there are buckets of fresh herbs standing in a little water.

lazeedaisy

We grow our own, and I can't remember the last time I bought some. We supply our local farm shop too. Its easy to grow your own, they taste better too.

lazeedaisy

I mean herbs, not tomatoes, I love our own tomatoes too, and you can buy some tasty varieties, but you have to search for them, as most suppliers supply seed that's standard.

pwurple

OP, i know what you mean, it bugged me too.

All I can suggest is to eat with the seasons... Chives and coriander this time of year are either grown in some hydroponic floodlit environment, or flown thousands of miles. Neither of which give good flavour. Same for january tomatoes, or those turnips disguised as strawberries. Wait until they are in season and they will be much better quality, and local too.

The herbs i use this time of year are the hardy ones that have plenty of healthy tasty leaves in winter. Rosemary, thyme, bay and some bizaarly overwintering parsley.

I know people want all things all year, but i like looking forward to june strawberries, wintery stews etc.

twignme

pwurple wrote: »

OP, i know what you mean, it bugged me too.

All I can suggest is to eat with the seasons... Chives and coriander this time of year are either grown in some hydroponic floodlit environment, or flown thousands of miles. Neither of which give good flavour. Same for january tomatoes, or those turnips disguised as strawberries. Wait until they are in season and they will be much better quality, and local too.

The herbs i use this time of year are the hardy ones that have plenty of healthy tasty leaves in winter. Rosemary, thyme, bay and some bizaarly overwintering parsley.

I know people want all things all year, but i like looking forward to june strawberries, wintery stews etc.

Thanks pwurple, nice to know someone understands! I do eat with the seasons as you suggest wherever possible, that's because I grew up with that being the only way and the hardy herbs I also grow myself so have them to hand all the time. It's those odd occasions when I am cooking something that needs those other herbs that I feel we are being sold something that is not as good as it used to be, which shows they can do it so that's why I get angry about it. And I am only talking about probably 10 or so years ago when they were not bad at all.