Removing Election Posters

zoobizoo

Is it illegal to remove political posters from lamposts etc in the run up to the election?

brian_t

zoobizoo wrote: »

Is it illegal to remove political posters from lamposts etc in the run up to the election?

If the posters were legally erected to start with then surely someone else removing them would be theft.

zoobizoo

That's what I'm trying to establish.

If I remove them and take them, that would be theft.

If I remove them and leave them there, is that illegal?

zoobizoo

That's what I'm trying to establish.

If I remove them and take them, that would be theft.

If I remove them and leave them there, is that illegal?

seamus

Yes. It is interfering with and/or defacing someone else's property.

In order to remove them you would have to cause some damage to the cable ties holding the poster up, so you would be in effect damaging someone else's property.

brian_t

zoobizoo wrote: »

If I remove them and leave them there, is that illegal?

If you throw your sweet wrappers on the ground, is that legal ?

Yawns

It would be littering at least I'd suspect.

Mind you, they way some of the posters are placed, they should be fined. I'd be more in favour of no posters on posts at all, but instead have a solar powered electric sign on a trailer or on advertising boards owned by the local council and allow the candidates have their advertising on it. Some free minutes throughout the day for all candidates and outside that, they could purchase more time on the board. These trailer signs could be used by the council throughout the year for roadworks / flood warnings etc.

If expensive, have some commercial advertising slots in between poster face time to help pay for costs.

I hate the waste the posters on signs create but at same time, it's a good time for the people in those jobs as well to have almost guaranteed work at this kind of time.

Yawns

It would be littering at least I'd suspect.

Mind you, they way some of the posters are placed, they should be fined. I'd be more in favour of no posters on posts at all, but instead have a solar powered electric sign on a trailer or on advertising boards owned by the local council and allow the candidates have their advertising on it. Some free minutes throughout the day for all candidates and outside that, they could purchase more time on the board. These trailer signs could be used by the council throughout the year for roadworks / flood warnings etc.

If expensive, have some commercial advertising slots in between poster face time to help pay for costs.

I hate the waste the posters on signs create but at same time, it's a good time for the people in those jobs as well to have almost guaranteed work at this kind of time.

zoobizoo

If taken down with Snips then no damage.

I take the point on littering though.

zoobizoo

If taken down with Snips then no damage.

I take the point on littering though.

seamus

zoobizoo wrote: »

If taken down with Snips then no damage.

Except for the cable tie that you've cut?

For Forks Sake

Now then, what would you do with this??



http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/01/21/on-the-campaign-trail/

I'm being tongue in cheek, Garda Traffic have already tweeted re. having it removed/burnt out.

athtrasna

It is theft if removed and taken away, potential criminal damage if just taken down. Probably some other potential charges too if there was proof you interfered with a poster.

In brief, don't do it, they're not yours to interfere with.

flyingsnail

Out of interest does the same apply if they have attached it to your fence?

Yawns

Contact the litter warden about it and take it from there. The person who owns the poster could be fined if it was attached to your property without permission I'd imagine. A letter of complaint, take a picture first, then remove it and bring the letter, picture and poster to litter warden so they have all the evidence and report they need to impose a fine. Can't see much else to be done other than that. Not sure tho.

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

At the last election Lucinda Creighton had her posters removed by the council for littering. The posters were up the night before the election was officially called and so they were removed. John Gormley referred to it in the Dail.

ted1

zoobizoo wrote: »

Is it illegal to remove political posters from lamposts etc in the run up to the election?

Any reason why you would want to remove them?
I think it's the lowest of the low to remove them just because you don't like the candidate or party.

It goes right against the democratic vote that we are all giving. Let the electorate decide what they think of the candidate, the nation may not agree with your view

Del2005

ted1 wrote: »

Any reason why you would want to remove them?

They look terrible and since they usually leave a few cable ties behind they are creating litter.

loremolis

Del2005 wrote: »

They look terrible and since they usually leave a few cable ties behind they are creating litter.

What if you cut the cable ties and left the poster beside the pole with two replacement cable ties of equal or better quality?

L1011

loremolis wrote: »

What if you cut the cable ties and left the poster beside the pole with two replacement cable ties of equal or better quality?

Littering; and replacing an item does not undo criminal damage either.

the_pen_turner

what if you opened the cable tie
then returned the poster and tie to the party or candidates office

the_pen_turner

what if you opened the cable tie
then returned the poster and tie to the party or candidates office

Orion

flyingsnail wrote: »

Out of interest does the same apply if they have attached it to your fence?

It it's on or attached to your property without permission you can remove it. Then contact the person who's face is on it and tell them to collect it from you. You can't just bin it even then.

Orion

the_pen_turner wrote: »

what if you opened the cable tie
then returned the poster and tie to the party or candidates office

I'm just curious as to which part of it's illegal to interfere with someone else's property is confusing you. You cannot legally take them down no matter how you spin it. Even if they're up illegally you can only report it to the council for littering not take them down yourself.

the_pen_turner

Orion wrote: »

I'm just curious as to which part of it's illegal to interfere with someone else's property is confusing you. You cannot legally take them down no matter how you spin it. Even if they're up illegally you can only report it to the council for littering not take them down yourself.

surely the same applies to litter . somebody owns that and you are interfering with their property if you put it in the bin



also if you returned it to its owner or representative of the owner then its not theft or damage to the property. you would only be breaking the law for removing it from the poles etc. they would need to witness you doing this for you to be charged. if you find someone's property lying on the side of the road then the proper thing to do is to return it to the owner

jimmycrackcorm

the_pen_turner wrote:

also if you returned it to its owner or representative of the owner then its not theft or damage to the property. you would only be breaking the law for removing it from the poles etc. they would need to witness you doing this for you to be charged. if you find someone's property lying on the side of the road then the proper thing to do is to return it to the owner

That's an interesting idea. If the windscreen wipers were taken off your car every night but then I find them and bring them to you sometime the next day... Say, every day...

Orion

the_pen_turner wrote: »

surely the same applies to litter . somebody owns that and you are interfering with their property if you put it in the bin

Litter is discarded - therefore nobody owns it. Stealing election posters even if you return them later is still theft. Even if you don't think it's stealing it's still interfering with someone else's property. It really is this simple.

the_pen_turner

Orion wrote: »

Litter is discarded - therefore nobody owns it. im sure the litter warden and court system wouldn't allow you to disown any litter you discarded Stealing election posters even if you return them later is still theft. Even if you don't think it's stealing it's still interfering with someone else's property. It really is this simple.

im not saying removing election posters isn't wrong. im just saying its not theft in the same way if you kept them perminently

RobbingBandit

Vandalism would be my guess as to the possible charges from this action.

Skatedude

Some of the election posters have been causing traffic accidents every time they are put up near me in the same junctions. They are still been put in the same places which are blocking views to traffic lights and i've seen a number of cars been rear ended as well as people driving straight through red lights etc.

They get reported to the roads authority every year, but they only removed once over the years and that was only because a school girl got hit by a car which ran a red light that was blocked by posters, but the same lights were blocked the following year.
The neighbours have now started to remove them themselves as soon as they go up.

seamus

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im not saying removing election posters isn't wrong. im just saying its not theft in the same way if you kept them perminently

The crime of theft simply requires that you intentionally deprive the owner of their property without their permission. It doesn't matter if it's permanent or temporary.

Otherwise every thief would use "I was only borrowing it" as a defence.

Tigger

the deeds to my house show to the middle of the road and the footpath in front of my house has a lamppost on it
is the lamppost on my property?

N Property Boundaries to the Centre of Public Roads
a) Current Procedure
The practice of mapping land parcel boundaries to the centreline of adjoining public
roads causes a number of unresolved issues. The PRAI states in its Mapping Practice
(2013), that “Where registration is made to the centre of a road or stream, the map is
not to be taken as conclusive evidence that such, portion of same is included in the
property” which confuses rather than clarifies the situation.
There are two possible legal options with regard to ownership of a public road:
i A public road where the road authority is responsible for maintaining it, but
ownership of the soil underneath and air above rests with the adjoining
landowners.
ii A public road where the road authority is responsible for maintaining it and
ownership also rests with the authority (by virtue of a CPO or transfer by the
prior owner)

Nekarsulm

After the polls close, work away. The bigger ones are very handy if you are working under your car, etc.

L1011

Nekarsulm wrote: »

After the polls close, work away. The bigger ones are very handy if you are working under your car, etc.

Still theft. Candidates reuse them and have time to legally remove them

Nekarsulm

Gosh, have never seen a re-used corri-board placard.
Perhaps the Green Party do it?

I got a few after the Marriage Equality ref.
For some reason the "Vote No" placards locally stayed up for weeks on end. The "Yes" ones were gone in a couple of days.

the_pen_turner

I think its time we scrap the current system . it is stupid and dangerous. these posters are illegally placed (esb say they refused permission)


a better solution would be to choose several locations in towns and villages etc where there was a council owned (or paid for private) wall where the posters could be attached to.

the_pen_turner

I think its time we scrap the current system . it is stupid and dangerous. these posters are illegally placed (esb say they refused permission)


a better solution would be to choose several locations in towns and villages etc where there was a council owned (or paid for private) wall where the posters could be attached to.

Orion

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I think its time we scrap the current system . it is stupid and dangerous. these posters are illegally placed (esb say they refused permission)


a better solution would be to choose several locations in towns and villages etc where there was a council owned (or paid for private) wall where the posters could be attached to.

This I agree with. Celbridge and Leixlip have banned them from the Main Street in those towns. I wish Maynooth would follow suit.

What you describe is how they do it in France and it works fine.

machiavellianme

There isn't even an election called yet and the amount of posters up is ridiculous.
All notifications of some important talk or other locally but they look very like election posters to me.
Lots of them are up well after the 7 days post event too.
Since this is OK for politicians, can I do it to advertise my company?

machiavellianme

Double post. (Reading the same thing twice doesn't add anything and only annoys people... Politicians take note!)

JimsAlterEgo

Orion wrote: »

This I agree with. Celbridge and Leixlip have banned them from the Main Street in those towns. I wish Maynooth would follow suit.

What you describe is how they do it in France and it works fine.

Lucan village also has an exclusion zone

L1011

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Gosh, have never seen a re-used corri-board placard.
Perhaps the Green Party do it?

I got a few after the Marriage Equality ref.
For some reason the "Vote No" placards locally stayed up for weeks on end. The "Yes" ones were gone in a couple of days.

Local candidate runs for the Dail two years later for the same party. S/he hasn't changed much appearance wise. Those posters aren't cheap so they may as well reuse them.

I've seen some ridiculous ones like a FG councillor using black and white posters with the star logo that I think were from the 1992 locals when running for the Dail in 02; and a local independent (well, was) using clearly ancient ones where she has a mid 1990s bouffant hairdo as recently as 2011

Losty Dublin

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Gosh, have never seen a re-used corri-board placard.
Perhaps the Green Party do it?

I got a few after the Marriage Equality ref.
For some reason the "Vote No" placards locally stayed up for weeks on end. The "Yes" ones were gone in a couple of days.

Posters are reused all the time as they are quite expensive to make. Their chances of reuse is very high, usually from candidates who may be going for reelection or with causes or public meetings which are ongoing. In the main it's volunteers who erect and remove them and it's haphazard as to where and when they are removed. You shouldn't have take them as it is theft but trust me, the posters aren't generally missed

nuac

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Lucan village also has an exclusion zone

Also banned in Westport town at request of local Tidy Towns Committee

Carawaystick

But since FG/Labour did away with town councils, are the bans still in place?

nuac

Carawaystick wrote: »

But since FG/Labour did away with town councils, are the bans still in place?

I assume any such orders etc transferred to County Council

Even if there were no legal sanction, the Tidy Towns COmmittee in Westport is highly respected - outright winners of the TT Contest thrice in last ten years or so, and runner up several other years.

A lot of members and supporters around the area.

It would take a brave candidate to flout their suggestions

The abolition of Town COuncils is accepted by many to be a mistake.

Any party undertaking to bring them back will be supported by many, including nuac

Orion

There was a request in Maynooth from the Tidy Towns in the locals to keep the Main Street free of posters which was respected by all candidates. It wasn't enforceable but any candidate who didn't would have been punished in the election. It was for a specific reason - possibly the tidy towns inspection was coming - can't remember exactly.

GerardKeating

Tigger wrote: »

the deeds to my house show to the middle of the road and the footpath in front of my house has a lamppost on it
is the lamppost on my property?

Or if the Lamppost is actually on your side of the boundary wall/fence, one should be able to remove them, in theory they trespassed to place them on the lamppost.

You might have to return them (like fallen branches etc) to the owner.

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

But since FG/Labour did away with town councils, are the bans still in place?

Town council bye-laws didn't cease to exist with the abolition as the county councils became sucessors. If they did there'd have been parking free for alls at the very least.

billy few mates

There should be something done about the cable ties they leave behind when they remove their posters after the election. They all come along, snip the cable ties, take away their posters and leave the cable ties in a heap at the bottom of the poles with all the others. Each party should be made to use colour coded or easily identifiable cable ties and pay a levy per poster to the local council to compensate for the clean up costs....

afatbollix

Or they should just pick them up!

Its the most stupid system ever who votes because of a face on a poster!

I've haven't seen it in any other country.