German themed bar in Dublin

micromary

I have seen the success of German bars around the World while travelling. As a fluent German speaker who deals directly with German companies every day in my normal job I just wonder why there is not one here in Dublin. I am doing some initial research on the potential of opening one here. If anybody has any thoughts please reply. Also please PM me as I looking for a potential business partner re this venture if it is to get going. Thanks.

Terrontress

Is the cost of beer here an issue? German bars tend to have an Oktoberfest style and sell by the litre. You'd probably be talking €11 per beer and the round system wouldn't work well.

Certainly the idea of beer, sausage, dirndl and oompah music would appeal to many guys. Would girls like it?

drunkmonkey

Would the upstairs of bull and castle not be German style beer hall..

I'm all for Big Steins and women in lederhosen, I'd drink there.

Terrontress

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would the upstairs of bull and castle not be German style beer hall..

I'm all for Big Steins and women in lederhosen, I'd drink there.

Repeatedly, or would you go once per year on a special occasion?

TripleAce

Something like Hofbrauhaus (http://www.hofbraeuhaus.de/ serving both drinks and food would be great in Dublin. I always wonder why there are no German restaurants at all and I believe it would be a huge opportunity for somebody with experience in running this type of business - It is not only about sausages, also gulash, krauts, etc. etc., everytime I travel to Germany/Austria for any reason I love to eat out!
For certain I would be a regular customer

Whosthis

micromary wrote: »

I have seen the success of German bars around the World while travelling. As a fluent German speaker who deals directly with German companies every day in my normal job I just wonder why there is not one here in Dublin. I am doing some initial research on the potential of opening one here. If anybody has any thoughts please reply. Also please PM me as I looking for a potential business partner re this venture if it is to get going. Thanks.

In my opinion the current Oktoberfest offerings in the city once a year are enough.

I can't imagine importing a foreign pub culture into the home of pub culture will be an easy task.

I'd certainly go to a bar like this but probably only once as a novelty.

pedroeibar1

micromary wrote: »

I have seen the success of German bars around the World while travelling. As a fluent German speaker who deals directly with German companies every day in my normal job I just wonder why there is not one here in Dublin.

Look at that another way……….I have seen the success of French restaurants around the World while travelling. As a fluent French speaker who deals directly with French companies every day in my normal job, why should I be qualified to run a French brasserie?

Actually, I do not recall that many German bars as destinations in major cities - a few Alsatian (not German) ones in Paris, one in Rome that I was dragged to (not v. good) and a few in NYC where those in Germantown are dying and mostly dead except for Steuben Day. I'd be hard pressed to think of others that are 'attractions' anywhere.

How many Irish people share the German sense of humour and would regard a German bar as a venue for a good night out? How many tourists come to Ireland to visit a German bar?

Having the idea is one thing. Having the knowledge and skill to execute it successfully is quite different. What skills & experience do you have? No experience + no cash = no interest to an investor.

drunkmonkey

Terrontress wrote: »

Repeatedly, or would you go once per year on a special occasion?

If the beer and food are good, repeatedly.

Commercially though, I'd open a hooters, think it would be a lot more lucrative.

StupidLikeAFox

There's a German restaurant on camden street called Frittehaus I think

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If you can get the German beers in, it could do well - but you'll need a mix. Living in Germany, one of the biggest plusses for me is the range. Pilsner, dunkels, kristal, heiferweissen, berlinerweisse and so on.

As someone else said, though, a problem could be costs and prices you;d have to sell at.

ironclaw

Speaking as someone with a share in the trade and a large family network in the trade, people come to Ireland for the Irish pub experience. That turf fire, wood and unique-ish feel about pubs here. Your tourist trade would be minimal in my opinion except during Octoberfest where you could neatly tie in with the Dublin events (Noting thats 30 days out of 365) I can't see Irish trade beyond a 'lets try it once for the novelty' and your student trade would be minimal (Unless you had fantastic price margin) I'm guessing you would also want to be in Dublin (And its the only place I would remotely consider a venture of this scale), so location would be extremely tricky to find and rent especially if you wanted a large premises for a beer hall.

You would be better off importing German beer or all joking aside, a Hooter-esque bar as mentioned earlier.

YellowSheep

I, a German chef living here on Ireland for 17 years, would agree with you a 100%. I often thought to do but had no finance. I had a sausage place for 1 year and wouldn't it have been for t he location it would have been a winner. The German stuff you get these days in the IFSC is absolutely crap. And for the beer. ....most are available here and a lot of breweries in Germany would be happy to sell their products here exclusive. Anyway I think it's a great idea. Cheers Oliver

Disgruntled Badger

Yep. Great idea. If you can cater for groups, stags and screening big matches safely you'll be packed every weekend. You need to get the costs right though, I imagine if it's seen to be gauging for food and drink prices you'll loose the locals, then it'll die a death. Can't entirely depend on tourists, they come to Dublin for Irish Pubs.

Wonder what's cheaper, brewing the pills here or importing it?

Oedo

There's a place called Berlin in the middle of town. Pretty sure they don't do food though.

As for the idea, I'd definitely go along for a look. I'd come back if the prices were decent and there was a good atmosphere. I've never been to a proper Oktoberfest in Germany but I've seen loads of pictures and it looks like good fun, and that's what people would have in mind if they were going to give your place a look. If the place was dead or a bit busy but there wasn't much atmosphere I'd say they wouldn't bother returning.

It ties in with the move towards craft beer/gastro pubs and people are willing to try something a bit different.

As others have said you'd need a big open room location to make it work which you'd be hard pressed to find in a good location.

micromary

Thanks for the ideas and feedback. I am only initially looking into this and therefore have no definite plans in mind. It is good to hear peoples views though.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

How many Irish people share the German sense of humour and would regard a German bar as a venue for a good night out? How many tourists come to Ireland to visit a German bar?

Having the idea is one thing. Having the knowledge and skill to execute it successfully is quite different. What skills & experience do you have? No experience + no cash = no interest to an investor.

Huh???? I have previously experience of running restaurants in Germany and Ireland. That was 10 years ago before I changed career. Therefore I do have the skills and experience albeit a bit rusty and have some cash. The way you go on here you would think you knew me and that I was opening this bar/restaurant soon!

pedroeibar1

micromary wrote: »

Thanks for the ideas and feedback. I am only initially looking into this and therefore have no definite plans in mind. It is good to hear peoples views though.

Huh???? I have previously experience of running restaurants in Germany and Ireland. That was 10 years ago before I changed career. Therefore I do have the skills and experience albeit a bit rusty and have some cash. The way you go on here you would think you knew me and that I was opening this bar/restaurant soon!

Huh???? indeed!!:rolleyes:
You have a lot to learn Miss. Go read your opening post. Where have you written that you (a) have some cash (b) have experience and (c) that experience relates to running restaurants in Germany and Ireland?
The biggest mistake a newbie makes is keeping his/her cards close to the chest. Investors hate lack of transparency and surprises. As an investor, nothing you have written would induce me (or many professional investors) to get involved. Go look at the figures for the on-trade. Go look at the insolvency figures for the on-trade. Use the "Search" function on this forum for pubs. Viel Glück!;)

micromary

What are you on about on!!!? Read the first email. I advised that I was only thinking of the idea and I did not know whether I would go ahead with it. Everybody gave good thoughts good or bad regarding the subject and it certainly gave food for thought if I wanted to proceed further. You have just jumped on as if I was about to start up the business tomorrow. I am not looking for an investor now or maybe in the future. I do not have to give you all my details and nor will I. I am not looking for you to invest in this or neither will. Good luck with anybody doing business with you Pedroeibar. They certainly need it.

irish_goat

The Bull and Castle used to have a beerhall type set up. Long tables and all craft beers available in 1l steins (price was proportional to a pint). They had plenty of bottles of German beer but the focus was on Irish beer mainly. The food was not German apart from when we did Oktoberfest and it was just pretzels and frankfurters then so nothing too exciting.

Irish people enjoyed the long tables and didn't take the piss ordering litres of beer that they couldn't handle either so it worked well.

Unforuntately the owners decided they wanted to renovate and turn it into more of a beer/cocktail bar so it no longer has the beer hall theme.

Nika Bolokov

Having worked in Germany this is something I would also love to see.

German food is great, I love a good schnitzel.

I'd probably go with the food angle rather than the beer hall angle, bit like that Belgian place on Camden Street.

Could be hard to differentiate a German bar from all the other craft beer bars and would cost a fortune to start but there's no German restaurant in Dublin and many Germans.

Nika Bolokov

micromary wrote: »

What are you on about on!!!? Read the first email. I advised that I was only thinking of the idea and I did not know whether I would go ahead with it. Everybody gave good thoughts good or bad regarding the subject and it certainly gave food for thought if I wanted to proceed further. You have just jumped on as if I was about to start up the business tomorrow. I am not looking for an investor now or maybe in the future. I do not have to give you all my details and nor will I. I am not looking for you to invest in this or neither will. Good luck with anybody doing business with you Pedroeibar. They certainly need it.

A lot of posters in here get that. Wouldn't worry about it.

pedroeibar1

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

German food is great, I love a good schnitzel.

I'd probably go with the food angle rather than the beer hall angle, bit like that Belgian place on Camden Street.

German food does not have an international reputation anywhere - something recognized even in Germany. Not that you appear to know much about it, when you describe schnitzel as German! (It is Austrian, quite a different place, unless you have another Anschluss in mind!)
Sauerkraut or schinken mit kartoffeln do not appeal to a wide audience.

Walters in Dun Laoghaire was (I think) the first beer garden pub in Dublin, back in the late 60's. Flares, not dirndls. And it did not last long either in any guise.

riffmongous

German food can be poor alright, Austrian/Viennese food might be more suitable for Irish tastes and still fit in-theme though, things like gröstl, proper schnitzel as mentioned above, backhendl salad, käsespätzle, käsekrainer, gebackene camembert, gulasch all reasonably easy to make for a pub too

micromary

Thanks for the replies. Yes I think you can definitely mix good German/Bavarian/Austrian dishes with some other mainstream dishes so that you have a mix. I think there is also important to have a mix of beers as well. I reckon (though I could be wrong!) that you have to cater for the people who like Guinness/Heineken as well. It is about trying to get the mix right. My initial research tallies with this. One thing is very important is service. I recently went to the newly renovated bar near Grand Canal Plaza and the service was very poor. If you can't get the basics then you are onto a loser straight away.

Green Giraffe

I would like to see a German bar in Dublin.
For me pricing is key.
Outrageous prices at Dublin Oktoberfest - €6.50 for 0.5L.
If you could manage 0.5L draught for €5 that would be nearer the mark.
Would need a good range of Pilsener, Helles & Weizen.
Bland beer like Krombacher Pils would be a mistake.
I find German food good & hearty & I believe once
again if the pricing is right, it would be popular.
Good Luck with the venture if you choose to go ahead with it.

micromary

Thanks. I find the Oktoberfest in Dublin poor re pricing of beer. If the beer was in proper "steins" then this would be an improvement but they are in smelly plastic glasses that do not look 1Litre!

maninasia

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

German food does not have an international reputation anywhere - something recognized even in Germany. Not that you appear to know much about it, when you describe schnitzel as German! (It is Austrian, quite a different place, unless you have another Anschluss in mind!)
Sauerkraut or schinken mit kartoffeln do not appeal to a wide audience.

Walters in Dun Laoghaire was (I think) the first beer garden pub in Dublin, back in the late 60's. Flares, not dirndls. And it did not last long either in any guise.

Wrong, it is quite popular in Asia, they love the roast pork and Sausages and German beer.'I think the idea is a winner but need to focus on good hearty food.

ironclaw

maninasia wrote: »

Wrong, it is quite popular in Asia, they love the roast pork and Sausages and German beer.'I think the idea is a winner but need to focus on good hearty food.

From my experience in Asia, notably Beijing and Shanghai, its usually seen as a novelty for the locals or as somewhere to go when you fancy something more 'Western' Its certainly not an indication that it would do well in Ireland but its correct to say they do very well in Asia. If I was doing this concept, I wouldn't bother in Ireland, I'd head out East. Huge opportunities for good, Western food done well. The best Eggs Benedict, my 'standard' when I travel, was in Shanghai in the French Quarter.

Help!!!!

Maybe do a trip to London

http://bierschenke.co.uk/
http://www.bavarian-beerhouse.co.uk/

pedroismyname

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

German food does not have an international reputation anywhere - something recognized even in Germany

Ever hear of a place called Namibia?

micromary

See Pedro is back under a different name, replying to his own thread and giving us an answer that makes no sense whatsoever except to himself.

pedroeibar1

Nope, I'm here under the same name and no other (Mods know the IP addys . I also have a life, and as a person who has spent considerable time working in the Far East, (go look at some of my earlier posts on this forum) and one who lived in hotels for a long time due to my work, and even was on the board of one, I still maintain German food sucks, there, elsewhere and here. You really should open your bar and then you would have something to worry (deeply) about!:p:D
If you are determined, and want to have half a chance, go study the menu (very good food) at the Auberge de l'Isle, (but that is Alsatian, not German!):D

pedronomix

micromary wrote: »

See Pedro is back under a different name, replying to his own thread and giving us an answer that makes no sense whatsoever except to himself.

Not me either!

duploelabs

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I still maintain German food sucks, there, elsewhere and here. You really should open your bar and then you would have something to worry (deeply) about!:p:D

Just goes to show your lack of depth of knowledge about the region's food to make such a sweeping statement

pedroeibar1

duploelabs wrote: »

Just goes to show your lack of depth of knowledge about the region's food to make such a sweeping statement

If you want to have a pop at me take it to PM but you really have no idea of my background or knowledge of food and Germany. A Hamburger has long ceased to be German, and the only other culinary delight to come from Germany – arguably - is marzipan, hardly an ideal accompaniment to beer! Have you ever tried drinking a decent wine (and Germany has some great ones) with rotkohl?

Other than the Hamburger, German food does not feature in the world’s “Top 50” dishes. While schinken mit kartofflen is fine for farmers with a stein of beer, fine dining it isn’t. FWIW, the best meal I had in Germany was in Bad Koningberg, the worst (many) in Sachsenhausen (Frankfort). When I ate in the Auberge de l’Ill at Illhausern their speciality at that time was crubeens, boned out, stuffed with a pork forcemeat, then egg-and-breadcrumbed and fried. Interesting, but still pigs feet.

Other than an opportunity to have a cheap shot at me I fail to see why you support a dreamer with no money, no backer and a daft idea. As I said earlier, if a German themed restaurant cannot survive in the Upper East Side of NYC (in an area known as ‘Germantown’ because of its Germanic ethnicity) I fail to see how one could survive in Dublin with a fraction of the population.

The Hill Billy

We get it. You've eaten some German food. Get over it. Regurgitating the same ol' opinions you have about German cuisine ain't adding anything to the thread now.

@OP - I would certainly be of the opinion that this idea merits further investigation. Good German beers & food would be a winner if priced right & well located.

Help!!!!

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If you want to have a pop at me take it to PM but you really have no idea of my background or knowledge of food and Germany. A Hamburger has long ceased to be German, and the only other culinary delight to come from Germany – arguably - is marzipan, hardly an ideal accompaniment to beer! Have you ever tried drinking a decent wine (and Germany has some great ones) with rotkohl?

Other than the Hamburger, German food does not feature in the world’s “Top 50” dishes. While schinken mit kartofflen is fine for farmers with a stein of beer, fine dining it isn’t. FWIW, the best meal I had in Germany was in Bad Koningberg, the worst (many) in Sachsenhausen (Frankfort). When I ate in the Auberge de l’Ill at Illhausern their speciality at that time was crubeens, boned out, stuffed with a pork forcemeat, then egg-and-breadcrumbed and fried. Interesting, but still pigs feet.

Other than an opportunity to have a cheap shot at me I fail to see why you support a dreamer with no money, no backer and a daft idea. As I said earlier, if a German themed restaurant cannot survive in the Upper East Side of NYC (in an area known as ‘Germantown’ because of its Germanic ethnicity) I fail to see how one could survive in Dublin with a fraction of the population.

In London there are 3 German themed bars within walking distance of each other so if the bar is done properly & has a decent location I cant see why it cant work in Dublin.
You don't know whether the OP has no money or no backer & it is not a daft idea if done properly

pedronomix

Little evidence of any great love for geman cuisine on here, but then again is an Entrepreneurial & Business Management forum the brightest spot to seek feedback/market research for such a topic?

Geuze

Terrontress wrote: »

Is the cost of beer here an issue? German bars tend to have an Oktoberfest style and sell by the litre. You'd probably be talking €11 per beer and the round system wouldn't work well.

Although some pubs in Germany, mainly in Bayern, sell the 1L mass of beer, the vast majority of beer sold in pubs there is served in 25cl, 40cl, or 50cl.

pedroeibar1

Help!!!! wrote: »

You don't know whether the OP has no money or no backer & it is not a daft idea if done properly

Go read the opening post - the OP's (by her own admission) key attributes are that she has worked in Germany as a student and speaks German. Never ran a bar, let alone a themed on. She also is looking for a partner. Really great start, that.

Elsewhere poor old Duplobricks gets into a tantrum and jumps up and down on a poor guy who is starting a hobby business with a cart (unlike micromary he has a fixed asset, well a mobile one;)) and a plan yet she and some of you get yer knickers in a twist to support a poster who has not even produced the most basic of detail / ideas for a business plan? A transition year student would do better! :rolleyes:

ironclaw

Help!!!! wrote: »

In London there are 3 German themed bars within walking distance of each other so if the bar is done properly & has a decent location I cant see why it cant work in Dublin.

London has four(?) times the population of the entire island of Ireland and is a bank sector hot spot, along with a close connection to Frankfurt. Its an entirely different market.

As I said, if someone has the money for such a venture, don't do it in Ireland. These type of things do VERY well in the Far East.

duploelabs

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Go read the opening post - the OP's (by her own admission) key attributes are that she has worked in Germany as a student and speaks German. Never ran a bar, let alone a themed on. She also is looking for a partner. Really great start, that.

Elsewhere poor old Duplobricks gets into a tantrum and jumps up and down on a poor guy who is starting a hobby business with a cart (unlike micromary he has a fixed asset, well a mobile one;)) and a plan yet she and some of you get yer knickers in a twist to support a poster who has not even produced the most basic of detail / ideas for a business plan? A transition year student would do better! :rolleyes:

There's a difference between doing something illegal (as the hot dog stand dude was planning to do at the time) and doing something financially unsure. But well done for starting the name calling, big guy

RIALTO1

Been in this one in Liverpool. Good spot for a big match, on a busy weekend. As others have said, could do well with stags etc. Would imagine fairly quiet mid-week. Bit of a c*ck-fest as well.

http://thebierkeller.com/liverpool-bar/

AlanG

ironclaw wrote: »

London has four(?) times the population of the entire island of Ireland and is a bank sector hot spot, along with a close connection to Frankfurt. Its an entirely different market.
.

Madison, Wisconsin has about 250,000 and has four or five German pubs and restaurants all of which are among the busiest places in the city and really popular with the college students. Many have been going for years and have managed to sustain the business. There is easily a market if kept simple and done right. Most difficult part would be to stop people from stealing the fancy glasses which are an essential part of any German theme.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Nope, I'm here under the same name and no other (Mods know the IP addys . I also have a life, and as a person who has spent considerable time working in the Far East, (go look at some of my earlier posts on this forum) and one who lived in hotels for a long time due to my work, and even was on the board of one, I still maintain German food sucks, there, elsewhere and here. You really should open your bar and then you would have something to worry (deeply) about!:p:D
If you are determined, and want to have half a chance, go study the menu (very good food) at the Auberge de l'Isle, (but that is Alsatian, not German!):D

You don't like German food, that doesn't make German food (from all regions) terrible. 80 million people are not eating the local quisine thinking "Oh god this is terrible"...

As for the OP, if you can get in some good German beer, not the exported crap, and sell it at a reasonable price.

The "oktoberfest" at the IFSC every year is a rip off, same goes for the "German Xmas markets", gluhwein is much and overpriced. Best of luck if you go ahead with it. I would go regularly if the beer was good, the pub wasn't dark and it's possible to talk to people.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Go read the opening post - the OP's (by her own admission) key attributes are that she has worked in Germany as a student and speaks German. Never ran a bar, let alone a themed on. She also is looking for a partner. Really great start, that.

Every great idea/venture has a beginning. I believe the only person not reading the OP in this thread is you. The OP mentions that she has the expertise, but you ignored that (Not only running resturaunts in Germany, but also in Ireland). Running a resturaunt is somewhat more difficult than running a bar/pub. OP also states that she has some money. Your posts are far from helpful, they are just condisending and only serve to knock somebody down before they are on their feet. Well done...

pedroismyname

micromary wrote: »

See Pedro is back under a different name, replying to his own thread and giving us an answer that makes no sense whatsoever except to himself.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Nope, I'm here under the same name and no other (Mods know the IP addys

pedronomix wrote: »

Not me either!

To the mods - and to micromary - I am not either of these users. I don't think there are any rules on slightly similar usernames? I am sure there are lots of Marys registered here.

pedronomix

As in good business, a bit of searching and researching can be most revealing. A posters historical posts often give much more insightful information than they may offer in an individual posting or query.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

pedronomix wrote: »

As in good business, a bit of searching and researching can be most revealing. A posters historical posts often give much more insightful information than they may offer in an individual posting or query.

Please, enlighten us with your findings, if you have any... :rolleyes:

pedronomix

Sean Easy Shipyard wrote: »

Please, enlighten us with your findings, if you have any... :rolleyes:

Rule 2, do your own research...!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

pedronomix wrote: »

Rule 2, do your own research...!

Who are you even talking about? What has the OP's post history got to do with this thread? You're talking utter nonsense at this point and adding nothing helpful to the thread, what exactly is your point?

duploelabs

Sean Easy Shipyard wrote: »

Who are you even talking about? What has the OP's post history got to do with this thread? You're talking utter nonsense at this point and adding nothing helpful to the thread, what exactly is your point?

If you review his posts, he loves to do this and got banned before for doing it

Help!!!!

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Go read the opening post - the OP's (by her own admission) key attributes are that she has worked in Germany as a student and speaks German. Never ran a bar, let alone a themed on. She also is looking for a partner. Really great start, that.

Look at Post 16 maybe it skipped your attention