Funding of Public service broadcasting after the election ?

Mr Sea Wolf

I wonder will the next government bring in the household broadcasting charge or increase the existing tv license ?

brick man

Mr Sea Wolf wrote:

I wonder will the next government bring in the household broadcasting charge or increase the existing tv license ?

There is no need at present to increase the fee but the problem is there is 15 to 20 % of households not paying which is a fair bit of money . I think they will bring in the charge as it is only a replacement but it will depend who is minister and have government got a majority as all politics is local

Sam Russell

The Broadcasting Charge could be implemented at a lower rate than the current licence fee by taking into account the scroungers who do not pay and by avoiding the collection fee charged by An Post.

Current licence fee = €160.

Collection fee = 5%

Defaulters = 20%.

Net fee = €160 + .95 = €152.

If 100% pay, fee required to get the same revenue = €152 * 0.8 = €121.06 or €10 per month.

If a small fee/tax was put on each text message (like 0.1c), it would raise a significant amount of money that could be thrown into the pot to help with cultural content and non-broadcast media. Likewise if a small fee was put on any broadband connection, say over 10 mb/s, like €10 per year, that would also raise money to cover non-broadcast media.

The Cush

Mr Sea Wolf wrote: »

I wonder will the next government bring in the household broadcasting charge or increase the existing tv license ?

First port of call will be their respective party manifestos.

Thread here on the government parties respective manifestos from 2011.

Elmo

Re Nua what to scrap the Licence fee and provide the DSP subvention to the licence fee (circa €56m) to a fund for TV/Radio Production (As such the BAI's Sound and Vision Fund). Under this plan RTÉ would receive no licence except through this fund which is open to all other broadcasters. They suggest its cost neutral but they have failed to take into consideration a number of other activates currently supported by the licence fee.

The Social Democrats want to set up a new Digital Department within RTÉ to bring Irish Film, Drama, arts and culture to a wider audience.

Neither are big on detail.

Sam Russell

Re Nua appear to want to put RTE into political hock, just as Ray Burke tried.

We do not want to go back to copy anything done by Ray Burke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Burke_(Irish_politician)

FRIENDO

Re Nua appear to be only thinking about their profit making private investors.

With no thought to the fact that RTE support a 100% free to air service.
And good employment.
A company owned by the citizens of the State.

RTE also support culture programmes, music and drama.
The support for our national language.
Both TV and radio.
Much of which is at a cost.

Something needs to be done about the TV licence or possibly household broadcasting charge.
It's unfair so many people get away with not paying.
Either abolish the TV licence and support our State broadcasting from the general taxisation or introduce a universal broadcasting tax/levy on households.

At the moment the TV licence costs me 13.33 per month direct debit.

FRIENDO

Sam Russell wrote: »

Re Nua appear to want to put RTE into political hock, just as Ray Burke tried.

We do not want to go back to copy anything done by Ray Burke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Burke_(Irish_politician)

Add your reply here.

I hope these days are gone, but I fear not!!

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

Re Nua what to scrap the Licence fee and provide the DSP subvention to the licence fee (circa €56m) to a fund for TV/Radio Production (As such the BAI's Sound and Vision Fund). Under this plan RTÉ would receive no licence except through this fund which is open to all other broadcasters. They suggest its cost neutral but they have failed to take into consideration a number of other activates currently supported by the licence fee.

That was done in New Zealand and led to the situation where TVNZ became just another commercial broadcaster, which just happened to be owned by the Government. They've realised their mistake, I think, but the damage is done and is too late to undo. I'm not sure even TV3 want RTE to turn into another TV3.

Can I ask people to be extremely careful discussing named individuals. Ideally don't. It is very easy to expose Boards (and yourself) to a claim when you do so. I don't care whether facts are "public knowledge" or not, it's one thing for them to be "public knowledge" and another thing to have to prove them in Court. Thanks.

Elmo

icdg wrote: »

That was done in New Zealand and led to the situation where TVNZ became just another commercial broadcaster, which just happened to be owned by the Government. They've realised their mistake, I think, but the damage is done and is too late to undo. I'm not sure even TV3 want RTE to turn into another TV3.

It looks like ReNua are not replacing the licence from exchequer funding. Seems they just want 56m from DSP to go to the sound &a vision fund.

NZOA gets nz$132 m
While NZSO gets nz$15m
While Te Māngai Pāho the Maori NZOA gets nz$54m (this includes a direct fund to Maori TV)
Up to 2007 NZRadio Concert (lyric fm)was funded by the government entirely, not sure how they fund it now.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

If a small fee/tax was put on each text message (like 0.1c), it would raise a significant amount of money that could be thrown into the pot to help with cultural content and non-broadcast media. Likewise if a small fee was put on any broadband connection, say over 10 mb/s, like €10 per year, that would also raise money to cover non-broadcast media.

Easier way of doing it would be to place the "Broadcasting/Communications Charge" on to the telecommunications sector. The market share of Vodafone, Eir, Sky, 3 and Virgin and other smaller companies would determined their liability towards €200million in funding.

The level of liability would be determined by ComReg
The BAI would determine increases and decreases and would issue the fee to RTÉ, TG4 and the Sound and Vision Fund
No ministerial involvement

E.g. if the 5 main telecoms companies have an 80% of the telecomminications market they would be liable for 160m or just 32m each on average. (Virgin revenue is at 360m per year).

Transparency at the end of the year a Broadcasting/Communications Charge" statement would be issue by your telecoms provider showing how much you paid into the fund. ComReg and CPCC must insure that such fees are not incorporated into bill (no increases in charges).

The current ARPU for a mobile pre-pay phone is €15, while post-pay is €35 in 2015.

This would mean a pre-pay phone would pay €10.80 per year
and a post-pay phone would pay €25.20 per year

based on the value of the telecommunications income of ~€3billion in 2015 with 6 - 7% (this is variable depending on value) going to the new fund or €200m (this is static, with ComReg and BAI issuing a decision each year on increases or decreases), also TG4 Grant-in-aid could be dropped completely as could the DSP's subvention to the fee.

Also this would be a fair-ish tax, meaning everyone pays in but it is really a fee paid by their Telecoms provider. Businesses would pay based on their use of telecommunications and even children with a pre-pay phone would be included. While at the end of the year everyone would see how much they paid to the fund, courtesy of their telecoms provider.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Easier way of doing it would be to place the "Broadcasting/Communications Charge" on to the telecommunications sector. The market share of Eir, Sky, 3 and Virgin and other smaller companies would determined their liability towards €200million in funding.

Vodafone?

Elmo

Questions put to renua

http://cce.gno.ie/news/2016/02/10renua.php

Mr Sea Wolf

Elmo wrote: »

Questions put to renua

http://cce.gno.ie/news/2016/02/10renua.php

It's no wonder that they have only a 1% approval rating in the polls.

Elmo

FF want to move away from the Licence fee and move to a different method of payment, while any extra money should go towards PSBing on local independent radio stations, they say Community but really mean independent commercial services.

Like the others it lacks details.

I know a manifesto is a wide document but surely each spokesperson should be able to launch something relating to each department to expand the manifestos. All very late in the day!

Elmo

FG: abolish broadcasting levy, allow BAI regulate all advertising minutes, get the CPCC to carry out a review of competition in the market to be published this year and to make Pay TV providers pay Irish channels for rights.

Elmo

Labour: news PSB fee to replace license & a CSPAN type Oirectas TV service!

Mr Sea Wolf

Elmo wrote: »

Labour: news PSB fee to replace license

Promised five years ago but never delivered, instead they decided to waste 54 million on Eir code

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

FG: abolish broadcasting levy, allow BAI regulate all advertising minutes, get the CPCC to carry out a review of competition in the market to be published this year and to make Pay TV providers pay Irish channels for rights.

They have also omitted the proposed broadcasting charge, with the Business Post reading it as meaning the charge is as good as abandoned (if it wasn't already).

Elmo

icdg wrote: »

They have also omitted the proposed broadcasting charge, with the Business Post reading it as meaning the charge is as good as abandoned (if it wasn't already).

Basically government wouldn't introduce because of water charges and LPT issues.

Capt'n Midnight

Elmo wrote: »

Basically government wouldn't introduce because of water charges and LPT issues.

€220m was collected for TV licenses vs just half that for water.

As someone who's paid more on TV licenses than on TV's and Satellite receivers over the years it really gets my goat that I'm paying AnPost royally for the privilege of subsidising so many free loaders.

It would be interesting to see how many water protesters have unlicensed TVs.



Also how much does the gubbermint make from the spectrum freed up by TV going digital ??

dublinman1990

Who is going to be Minister of Communications now while Alex White had lost his seat in the election earlier tonight.

Any options for replacement out there will be welcome after March 10th.

Mr Sea Wolf

With the limbo of a result in the GE, I'd imagine the tv licence is here to stay the way it is for the foreseeable future

Delta2113

Alex White is still the Minister -seat or no seat unfortunately.

Sam Russell

The last changes in broadcasting policy took place during the interregnum last time. Pat Carey nobbled RTE.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

The last changes in broadcasting policy took place during the interregnum last time. Pat Carey nobbled RTE.

No it was just before the election. At least he made a decision. Pat Rabbitte nobbled RTÉ by putting their proposal to move RTÉjr on the long finger.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

No it was just before the election. At least he made a decision. Pat Rabbitte nobbled RTÉ by putting their proposal to move RTÉjr on the long finger.

He was only Minister for a wet week - not sure when the decision was published, but I think it was his last day in office.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

He was only Minister for a wet week - not sure when the decision was published, but I think it was his last day in office.

How long was the next proposal from from RTÉ sit on Pat Rabbittes desk. Can you imagine how long pat Rabbitte would have take not to make a decision on RTÉ's proposal just to launch, News Now, jr and +1? IMO Saorview would have launched with none of them or "trials"

Carey made it a few days before the election, he was minister for a month, I am not defending that decision but at least it was a decision. IMO RTÉ withdrew the RTÉjr proposal due to political pressure.

Sam Russell

RTE was treated disgracefully by both the FF and FG governments. Both hate their 'leftie' leanings and would love to cut them off at the knees.

When was the last increase in the Licence fee - in fact - how much of the not-increased licence fee was given away to other broadcasters?

Elmo

Denis Naughten is now Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

My bad Department of Climate Change, Communications and Natural Resources.

Won't be happening anytime soon according to the IT. The minister has said it should not proceed at this time.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/plans-for-new-broadcasting-charge-switched-off-1.2673697

Elmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Won't be happening anytime soon according to the IT. The minister has said it should not proceed at this time.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/plans-for-new-broadcasting-charge-switched-off-1.2673697

TBH I think it is more about providing An Post with funding rather than changing the charge.

Sam Russell

I think it is more populist thinking.

The Broadcasting charge could be quite popular if it meant less money because it factored in the cost of those who do not pay, and An Post's commission/collection charge.

I think about 80% to 85% of households pay and I think An Post get about 5%, so the €160 could drop to €120 per year. That would be popular. They could bring in a charge/levy for broadband paid by the supplier which would also be popular (not so much with the supplier). Collection could be by adding to the electricity bill, so very small cost to collect and very difficult to avoid.

It would be difficult to persuade the political parties that support the 'wont pay' group to support such a change - so it will not happen anytime soon.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think it is more populist thinking.

The Broadcasting charge could be quite popular if it meant less money because it factored in the cost of those who do not pay, and An Post's commission/collection charge.

I think about 80% to 85% of households pay and I think An Post get about 5%, so the €160 could drop to €120 per year. That would be popular. They could bring in a charge/levy for broadband paid by the supplier which would also be popular (not so much with the supplier). Collection could be by adding to the electricity bill, so very small cost to collect and very difficult to avoid.

It would be difficult to persuade the political parties that support the 'wont pay' group to support such a change - so it will not happen anytime soon.

IMO axe the fee and put it on the telcoms based on market share. ComReg and CPCC insure that the fee is not passed to the customer and that the customer is informed of the amount that was paid on their behalf. this could cost from 20euro per to 80euro per year depending on usage (including businesses).

FRIENDO

Sam Russell wrote:

I think about 80% to 85% of households pay and I think An Post get about 5%, so the €160 could drop to €120 per year. That would be popular. They could bring in a charge/levy for broadband paid by the supplier which would also be popular (not so much with the supplier). Collection could be by adding to the electricity bill, so very small cost to collect and very difficult to avoid.

Good idea, however this will include the 15% - 20% of the "Give me all for free Brigade" being included in payment.

Hopefully soon we will get a politician who will make a difference and implement such change, until then it looks like us honest tv licence fee payer's will carry the tab.

Capt'n Midnight

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think about 80% to 85% of households pay and I think An Post get about 5%, so the €160 could drop to €120 per year.

http://www.ibireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Television-Licence-Fee-Report-30-Sept-20151.pdf

An Post Collection €9.72

Given the evasion rate they can't really justify it.

One suggestion I've made before is to add it on to the ESB, with an opt out if you don't use receivers that need licenes.

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.ibireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Television-Licence-Fee-Report-30-Sept-20151.pdf

An Post Collection €9.72

Given the evasion rate they can't really justify it.

One suggestion I've made before is to add it on to the ESB, with an opt out if you don't use receivers that need licenes.

So, according to that report, evasion is about 15% (or higher) and An Post get 6%. The electricity bill is no longer ESB but electricity supply is ESB Networks, so it could be done through ESB Networks as a levy on all electricty bills no matter the billing agent.

The key to the 'Broadcasting Charge' would be to show a gain for current payers in the shape of reduced cost, and the unavoidable nature of the charge for current evaders,

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

So, according to that report, evasion is about 15% (or higher) and An Post get 6%. The electricity bill is no longer ESB but electricity supply is ESB Networks, so it could be done through ESB Networks as a levy on all electricty bills no matter the billing agent.

The key to the 'Broadcasting Charge' would be to show a gain for current payers in the shape of reduced cost, and the unavoidable nature of the charge for current evaders,

Easier to put it on all telecom companies based on market share.
Just even ad it to mobile phones.
200m divided between all operators
Vodafone ~ 70m
3 ~ 60m
Eir ~ 40m
Tesco ~ 16m
Others ~ 14m

5.5m subs
Average monthly bill €28
~3 goes to broadcast charge
~36 per year on average

Add broadband, sub TV, landlines etc

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Easier to put it on all telecom companies based on market share.
Just even ad it to mobile phones.
200m divided between all operators

Once it moves outside TV, it will fall prey to others demanding their share.

It was a mistake to set up the Sound and Vision fund that allowed the likes of Setanta, a pay TV operator, to get a share.

It could also be charged to the operators of the pay-TV operators - say €5/month or maybe 10%, payable by the operators.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Once it moves outside TV, it will fall prey to others demanding their share.

I don't believe this to be the case as it would be across telecoms. Also it should be called the broadcasting charge thus would help.

The BAI have their own interpretation of the broadcasting act it is wrong.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

I don't believe this to be the case as it would be across telecoms. Also it should be called the broadcasting charge thus would help.

The BAI have their own interpretation of the broadcasting act it is wrong.

Motor Tax went to Irish Water.

I think the Government are quite flexible when it comes to diverting funds.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Motor Tax went to Irish Water.

I think the Government are quite flexible when it comes to diverting funds.

Legislate so that it goes to the BAI to distribute. The fact that it goes to the Dept is a major issue.

Sam Russell

I would not trust the BAI with it either. They are also too anti-RTE for my liking, as are the DCENR.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/housing/2010/0910first.pdf

99.2% of households had televisions back in 2005. The drop off is almost certainly due to the availability of steaming , boxsets and personal viewing devices such as laptops and tablets and in part may be related to the cost of the licence.

Given that near universal consumption of televisual media and that lower income households spend proportionately more of their income on TV there is a strong argument to cover the licence from general taxation rather than a fixed amount per household.

Elmo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/housing/2010/0910first.pdf

99.2% of households had televisions back in 2005. The drop off is almost certainly due to the availability of steaming , boxsets and personal viewing devices such as laptops and tablets and in part may be related to the cost of the licence.

Given that near universal consumption of televisual media and that lower income households spend proportionately more of their income on TV there is a strong argument to cover the licence from general taxation rather than a fixed amount per household.

The national PSB should not be held for ransom by the government. RTE Bias is far to prevalent. The idea of a indirect tax to the broadcaster is to avoid Bias. The problem in Ireland is when the government is given a huge amount of control. Giving the last decision on an increase, new services, the DG, the Board, Advert Minuets and a raft of other ministerial decision which should never have been allowed.

Since so many people use Telecommunications on a daily bases it should be part and parcel of the charges that such companies take from Subs.

The BAI determines the annual amount.
ComReg determines the amount due by each telcom provider.
CPCC insure that consumers are not charged.
The BAI over see the regulation of broadcast from Ad minutes to the Board.
The BAI are provided with the money not the department.
The Dept and Minister legislate.

Though it is unlikely the new minister will do anything.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Though it is unlikely the new minister will do anything.

The last minister did nothing. Nor did the one before that. Do not hold your breath waiting for this one to do anything. We are living through a time of political paralysis.