How prepared is Dublin Airport for snow?

WheatenBriar

I don't know if any of you have seen the chatter on the weather forum on the possibility of quite wintry weather hitting our shores sometime late next week?

My question is what facilities have Dub now for snow clearance and had it improved since December 2010?
I remember seeing a fleet of john deere tractors with snow ploughs in front,are they still there?
Even though,snow disruption is rare at Dub,did the airport authority invest in enough gear to cope with a repeat of December 2010 snowfall's if as is very probable sometime in the next few weeks we could see a repeat of that?

billie1b

All the gear is still there, its moved around all the time, the old Ryanair hangar us now the snow and ice hangar. Some stuff is kept in there and the rest of the big equipment is parked up in various places around the ramp.
Anybody who worked in the airport for the 09/10 snow/ice events will know that the airport are totally incompetent at handling the event, also people on the ground will also know that the snow/ice events of that time were handled that badly by the DAA staff that the contractors that were in building T2 at the time took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas while the DAA staff stood and watched in amazement

WheatenBriar

billie1b wrote: »

All the gear is still there, its moved around all the time, the old Ryanair hangar us now the snow and ice hangar. Some stuff is kept in there and the rest of the big equipment is parked up in various places around the ramp.
Anybody who worked in the airport for the 09/10 snow/ice events will know that the airport are totally incompetent at handling the event, also people on the ground will also know that the snow/ice events of that time were handled that badly by the DAA staff that the contractors that were in building T2 at the time took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas while the DAA staff stood and watched in amazement

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Gaoth Laidir

WheatenBriar wrote: »

I don't know if any of you have seen the chatter on the weather forum on the possibility of quite wintry weather hitting our shores sometime late next week?

My question is what facilities have Dub now for snow clearance and had it improved since December 2010?
I remember seeing a fleet of john deere tractors with snow ploughs in front,are they still there?
Even though,snow disruption is rare at Dub,did the airport authority invest in enough gear to cope with a repeat of December 2010 snowfall's if as is very probable sometime in the next few weeks we could see a repeat of that?

I haven't seen the chatter as I have been banned from the weather forum. :rolleyes:

I think DUB is pretty geared for it now. Plenty of shiny new snow trucks lined up along the south side of the airfield. The problem I would see would be frost damage to runway 28. It has been chewing up pretty badly of late, with numerous claims of potholes forming, so given its age I wonder how it would withstand another prolonged icy spell. Maybe we will get to see in the next 10 days...

martinsvi

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I haven't seen the chatter as I have been banned from the weather forum. :rolleyes:

I think DUB is pretty geared for it now. Plenty of shiny new snow trucks lined up along the south side of the airfield. The problem I would see would be frost damage to runway 28. It has been chewing up pretty badly of late, with numerous claims of potholes forming, so given its age I wonder how it would withstand another prolonged icy spell. Maybe we will get to see in the next 10 days...

how on earth do you get a ban from a weather forum? Did you point out the significant financial impact that snow and cold can cause to everyone? Or the traffic nuisance? Delays? Injuries? Deaths? I've noticed people there are very pro-snow and take this kind of talk very unkindly..

but seriously though, I crave to speculate that it's the very washed out soft ground that causes runway break-up, and perhaps with a bit of frost it might tighten it up a bit. Sure, if there's water in cracks before it freezes, then it's game over for that stretch of tarmac

Tenger

billie1b wrote: »

.......also people on the ground will also know that the snow/ice events of that time were handled that badly by the DAA staff that the contractors that were in building T2 at the time took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas....

As in the building contractors?

stopthepanic

billie1b wrote: »

Anybody who worked in the airport for the 09/10 snow/ice events will know that the airport are totally incompetent at handling the event, also people on the ground will also know that the snow/ice events of that time were handled that badly by the DAA staff that the contractors that were in building T2 at the time took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas while the DAA staff stood and watched in amazement

There is quite a bit of inaccuracies in this statement. The fact that you think the contractors just "took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas" is wrong. To think that they would be allowed to just ignore all security and safety regulations with regards to operating on both the apron and the airfield is laughable.

What's more unfortunate is that people believe you!

There are contractors (not building contractors) who are kept on call to operate snow equipment on the ramp.

billie1b

stopthepanic wrote: »

There is quite a bit of inaccuracies in this statement. The fact that you think the contractors just "took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas" is wrong. To think that they would be allowed to just ignore all security and safety regulations with regards to operating on both the apron and the airfield is laughable.

What's more unfortunate is that people believe you!

There are contractors (not building contractors) who are kept on call to operate snow equipment on the ramp.

My statement is not wrong, the contractors, as in building contractors took over and cleared the ramp/apron. DAA couldn't handle it, they made the mistake of not clearing it and letting it freeze.

The contractors used JCB's and dumper trucks, they scraped all the snow/ice and dumped it on the old RWY 11/29 and it different areas around the ramp. When they finished doing all the roads, stands, taxi lines etc the DAA then took over and cleared the excess snow with the brush plow and they also got rid of the snow piles.

The reason I say it is because I was here for the whole thing, i've no reason to give inacurate statements.

billie1b

billie1b wrote: »

The contractors used JCB's and dumper trucks, they scraped all the snow/ice and dumped it on the old RWY 11/29 and it different areas around the ramp. When they finished doing all the roads, stands, taxi lines etc the DAA then took over and cleared the excess snow with the brush plow and they also got rid of the snow piles.

^This is what happened^, they didn't take over, they were asked to assist. They were tasked with clearing the stands as the DAA didn't have the capacity at the time to be able to do both in a timely manner. A sweep of the runway and taxiways and a spray was taking 4 hours instead of the expected 20 mins. I can't attest to DAA staff standing around in amazement some of us still had work to do.

You are VERY correct in saying the DAA made a complete mickey of it. They ploughed taxiways/aprons and then created banks of snow behind stands which froze solid and aircraft couldn't push back. There was a serious lack of stands causing huge delays. One ADM slipped when she got out of her car on a stand a either fractured her skull or gave it a serious rattle.

The issue with Dublin is practice, we just don't get any snow events to keep skills up to a high level. The snow plan is a beautiful piece of work on paper but that is all it is a Paper plan.

stopthepanic

billie1b wrote: »

My statement is not wrong, the contractors, as in building contractors took over and cleared the ramp/apron. DAA couldn't handle it, they made the mistake of not clearing it and letting it freeze.

The contractors used JCB's and dumper trucks, they scraped all the snow/ice and dumped it on the old RWY 11/29 and it different areas around the ramp. When they finished doing all the roads, stands, taxi lines etc the DAA then took over and cleared the excess snow with the brush plow and they also got rid of the snow piles.

The reason I say it is because I was here for the whole thing, i've no reason to give inacurate statements.

You make it sound like the contractors were looking out, put down their mugs of tea and said 'right lads, let's do this'.
The only way they would have been involved was by DAA getting them involved. It may have been that DAA did not have the equipment back then for the level of snow that fell(it does now) but you're still suggesting that they did all this off their own bat, like a building contractor decided that the best place to dump the snow was runway 29. But it makes for a good story, I'll give you that!

billie1b

Ok I apologise I did sound quite biased by the way I typed, I could have typed it a lot better, I still stand by what I said, even if the builders were asked or just took over, they are the ones who took over and did what needed to be done. Hopefully if we have the same event again the DAA will be better prepared.

GVHOT and Stopthepanic, I didn't mean to cause any offence, was just calling it as I seen it, sorry

beer enigma

billie1b wrote: »

Ok I apologise I did sound quite biased by the way I typed, I could have typed it a lot better, I still stand by what I said, even if the builders were asked or just took over, they are the ones who took over and did what needed to be done. Hopefully if we have the same event again the DAA will be better prepared.

GVHOT and Stopthepanic, I didn't mean to cause any offence, was just calling it as I seen it, sorry

In fairness, from anyone seeing it at the time, your initial description was exactly as it looked !. It was pretty wild and very unorganised. Even now, desk bound daa staff are on the snow & ice roster so next week could be fun...

fits

Watching the snow ploughs at Helsinki is a thing of beauty. 8 yes 8 ploughs travel around in a diagonal offset ploughing the airport taxi areas and runways constantly while it snows. Its like a dance. You just couldn't expect that type of response in dublin for our 1 snow day every five years.

Edit: You can see them at 2:00 here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0Awf-WU7E

Locker10a

As mentioned above GVHOT hit the nail on the head! The reason DUB are slow or appear incapable of clearing snow is down to practice! Its an everyday occurrence during the winter in places like Helsinki ! And you can be sure the airport charge appropriately for the service they provide in Helsinki !
From what I could see Dublin airport didn't seem to perform any better or any worse than its counterparts in the UK for example

Del2005

Locker10a wrote: »

As mentioned above GVHOT hit the nail on the head! The reason DUB are slow or appear incapable of clearing snow is down to practice! Its an everyday occurrence during the winter in places like Helsinki ! And you can be sure the airport charge appropriately for the service they provide in Helsinki !
From what I could see Dublin airport didn't seem to perform any better or any worse than its counterparts in the UK for example

All snow clearing is driving the ploughs and sweepers in a staggered formation. Can they not practice driving in formation before it snows?

Locker10a

Del2005 wrote: »

All snow clearing is driving the ploughs and sweepers in a staggered formation. Can they not practice driving in formation before it snows?

I have personally never taken part in driving a plough in snow etc. but i imagine adding a few inches of snow to the ground vs. nothing on the ground makes quite a difference !
Its really not hard to see how Moscow, Helsinki and the many other airports who get seasonal snow would have a finely tuned clearing operation and speedy deicing! They invest appropriately as its necessary and the costs involved are efficient, you can't expect Dublin airport to invest in the same way as Helsinki would for example, for an event that happens for a week every 5 years! Especially when they have certain airlines jumping up and down with rage when they try to increase fees.

Del2005

Locker10a wrote: »

I have personally never taken part in driving a plough in snow etc. but i imagine adding a few inches of snow to the ground vs. nothing on the ground makes quite a difference !
Its really not hard to see how Moscow, Helsinki and the many other airports who get seasonal snow would have a finely tuned clearing operation and speedy deicing! They invest appropriately as its necessary and the costs involved are efficient, you can't expect Dublin airport to invest in the same way as Helsinki would for example, for an event that happens for a week every 5 years! Especially when they have certain airlines jumping up and down with rage when they try to increase fees.

If your ploughing on snow your doing it wrong. I know Dublin doesn't and shouldn't invest heavily on snow clearing equipment. They do lease vehicles for clearing snow each winter, so they should do practice driving in formation when they do get the equipment delivered.

pm.

billie1b wrote: »

All the gear is still there, its moved around all the time, the old Ryanair hangar us now the snow and ice hangar. Some stuff is kept in there and the rest of the big equipment is parked up in various places around the ramp.
Anybody who worked in the airport for the 09/10 snow/ice events will know that the airport are totally incompetent at handling the event, also people on the ground will also know that the snow/ice events of that time were handled that badly by the DAA staff that the contractors that were in building T2 at the time took over and they were the ones who cleared the whole apron/ramp and taxiway areas while the DAA staff stood and watched in amazement

Good auld OCS pity they are gone from the airport

Irish Steve

What completely blows Dublin out of the water is when the snow comes in on a North Easterly wind, and is the result of the Isle of Man effect, which has happened a few times in recent years, and when it does, the results are effectively disastrous, as the snow falls faster than they can clear it but only over a very narrow band.

I can remember a long time ago, I was due to fly out to Dusseldorf on an early EI flight. We got to the airport by road with no great problems, it was snowing, but nothing exceptional, but they'd not had any crews on overnight, so the snow was established before they got crews on to it. The flight was eventually cancelled about 5 hours later and I got home with no problems, but the airport was chaos, as nothing got in or out during the time, and very little was done in the way of clearing at that time.

Then of course, there's the "wrong" snow, which resists being cleared and instead, packs into a solid layer of ice that is almost impossible to remove with anything less than a JCB front bucket, as it's a solid layer of ice that can't be ploughed by the normal equipment.

That said, to be fair, snow with the temperatures in the range that are normal at Dublin is more difficult to manage than the powder snow that places like Helsinki get, it's usually much colder there, so the snow stays powdery and can be moved (or blown) much more simply and quickly than the wet snow that packs into ice almost instantly which is the norm in Ireland.

Then of course, there's the deicing issues, it may have improved now, but at one time, one of the major handlers only had one de icer, and they didn't know how to operate it correctly (used Gas oil rather than Kerosene in the burner) so it produced clouds of black smoke, and was very unreliable, to the extent that on at least one occasion, the airport fire service were dispatched because the tower thought there was an aircraft fire, rather than the de icer being used.

It will be interesting to see how well things go this year if we do get any significant snow from the North East, it's very strange how narrow the band of snow from the Isle of Man can be, the airport can have a blizzard, but there's nothing at Glasnevin, and nothing only just north of Swords, but in between, the conditions can be dangerous. A few degrees of wind shift, and the band literally moves up and down the coast, and causes chaos as it does so.

Gaoth Laidir

I love every winter watching how the metars from Svalbard include info on how they have sanded the runways. Usually plain text at the end of the report.

Tenger

Irish Steve wrote: »

What completely blows Dublin out of the water is when the snow comes in on a North Easterly wind, and is the result of the Isle of Man effect, which has happened a few times in recent years, and when it does, the results are effectively disastrous, as the snow falls faster than they can clear it but only over a very narrow band.
........................................
It will be interesting to see how well things go this year if we do get any significant snow from the North East, it's very strange how narrow the band of snow from the Isle of Man can be, the airport can have a blizzard, but there's nothing at Glasnevin, and nothing only just north of Swords, but in between, the conditions can be dangerous. A few degrees of wind shift, and the band literally moves up and down the coast, and causes chaos as it does so.

I would completely concur. A few years back (I think it was Winter '09/10) I was on an aircraft stuck onstand at DUB. Airport was closed to to snow clearance on the runway, we were all boarded waiting to get clearance to push. A work colleague beside me had a weather radar app/feed on his phone. We could see clear skies outside and the radar image would suddenly show clouds forming north-east of Dublin, between the coast on the Isle of Man....10-15 mins later snow would be falling on top of us. It was mesmerising to see the Isle of Man effect which I had heard of but never seen happening.

*3 hours of waiting, airport closed, we de-planed. daa/Aer Rianta were somewhat lax in giving info to airlines/flights. I remember the captain being very pissed off on the PA as he found out through RTE news before he was told over the frequency.

WheatenBriar

Tenger wrote: »

I would completely concur. A few years back (I think it was Winter '09/10) I was on an aircraft stuck onstand at DUB. Airport was closed to to snow clearance on the runway, we were all boarded waiting to get clearance to push. A work colleague beside me had a weather radar app/feed on his phone. We could see clear skies outside and the radar image would suddenly show clouds forming north-east of Dublin....10-15 mins later snow would be falling on top of us. It was mesmerising to see the Isle of Man effect which I had heard of but never seen happening.

*3 hours of waiting, airport closed, we de-planed. daa/Aer Rianta were somewhat lax in giving info to airlines/flights. I remember the captain being very pissed off on the PA as he found out through RTE news before he was told over the frequency.

Its not an isle of man effect,its lake effect snow which depending on the angle of the northeasterly funnels showers in narrow bands onto the east coast
Its the super cold air travelling over the warm Irish sea that causes the showers,so if the angle of the wind actually blows over the isle of man, to Dub,theres not enough fetch of water to complete the showers
If it flows south of the isle of man,it has a long track from Liverpool bay over and several narrow bands can develop

What's amazing is looking at where they develop and seeing them get bigger and bigger as they travel across the sea,fetching more and more moisture as they get closer to the Irish coast
Its a smaller version of the phenomenon on the lakes on the US Canada border,except of course its rare in Ireland but frequent in Buffalo New York as Icy air coming down from Canada over the huge lakes there is a several times a winter occurance for them

Gaoth Laidir

Quick things to look for regarding sea-effect showers:

- A temperature-difference of at least 13 °C between the sea and 850 hPa (~FL050). The Irish Sea gets down to around 9 °C at its coldest, so 850 hPa of about -5 °C should get convection going. We need lower than that for snow.
- Less than 30 ° shift in direction between the surface and 700 hPa (~FL100) winds
- Sufficient sea-fetch (depends on temperature difference and windspeed)
- Coastal convergence to enhance the convection and hence precipitation.

High pressure to our northwest and low over the North Sea or near continent allows a frigid airmass to flow in a northeasterly wind over the Irish Sea. This was the story in December 2010, and a few kms up or down the coast made a huge difference. Unfortunately DUB was slap bang in the firing line. Just south of it, the reduce sea-fetch caused by the Isle of Man meant the Dublin city was relatively clear.

Irish Steve

I'm sure the technical description is a lot more complex, but the issue with the Isle of Man is more complex than lake effect, what happens with certain wind directions, and strengths, the moisture bearing wind is "lazy", and deflected along the length of the Isle of Man, rather than rising and precipitating over the east of the island. When it gets to the southern end, there's no high ground to restrict the onward flow towards Dublin, so it does exactly that, and yes, probably picks up a bit more moisture on the way, then it hits the coast, rises, with the result we've seen very clearly in the airport area and up and down the coast on a number of occasions. The "diversion" along the east coast of the Isle of Man has a significant effect on the way that the subsequent fetch over the rest of the Irish Sea affects the end result.

The same happens in South Wales when the wind is South Westerly, some of the weather hits the high ground, and then tracks along the face of the high ground, rather than going up and over, and then ends up rising when it can't keep going, with the result that there's a triangle around Bristol that you can almost guarantee will see rain if there's cloud about. I used to see it on a regular basis when flying at low level between Dublin and Exeter, and there was a similar but less significant effect caused by Exmoor, the Brecon Hills had a much stronger effect because of the short distance between the coast and the hills.

Gaoth Laidir

Egilsstadir in Iceland is well prepared for snow, with the runway now sanded.

METAR BIEG 131300Z 35010KT 9999 -SHSN FEW007 SCT014 BKN043 M01/M02 Q1014 R04/450893
RMK TEMPO 34014KT 3000 SHSH VV005 RWY SANDED=

The runway currently has 8 mm of dry snow, braking action medium. More snow is forecast.

fits

Irish Steve wrote: »

What That said, to be fair, snow with the temperatures in the range that are normal at Dublin is more difficult to manage than the powder snow that places like Helsinki get, it's usually much colder there, so the snow stays powdery and can be moved (or blown) much more simply and quickly than the wet snow that packs into ice almost instantly which is the norm in Ireland.

Actually helsinki gets a fair amount of the wet stuff too. Many finns prefer to live further north as its not cold enough in helsinki and you get a lot of those damp, freezing and melting conditions. Its on baltic sea which contributes to that.

smurfjed

My SNOWTAM app is actually showing the code 450893 as WET SNOW... big difference, did you get your dry snow reading from an APP or a book?

Just curious as to how much i can trust this APP.

Growler!!!

smurfjed wrote: »

My SNOWTAM app is actually showing the code 450893 as WET SNOW... big difference, did you get your dry snow reading from an APP or a book?

Just curious as to how much i can trust this APP.

After a bit of searching found this last night, this is the Metar one there is also the Notam version:

http://www.b737mrg.net/downloads/b737mrg_snowtammetar.pdf

Dry snow
26% - 50% of surface covered
8mm depth
Braking action Medium

I really don't trust those apps much. Break out the paper and consult with your F/O. Two heads are better than one.

Gaoth Laidir

I use this guide for Runway conditions. It shows the 4 to mean DRY SNOW.

Snowtams can be different to this runway state info at the end of the METAR. The latest Snowtam issued at 1550Z is:

SWBI0108 BIEG 01131550
(SNOWTAM 0108
A) BIEG
01131550 C) 04 F) 7/7/7 G) 5/5/5 N) 7
R) 7
T) RWY TWY AND APRON SANDED H) 41/41/42 SFH

Using this guide shows that F) 7/7/7 is actually defined as ICE , G) 5/5/5 is 5 mm depth. A bit of difference between ICE and DRY SNOW!

EDIT: The latest METAR also shows ice and not dry snow.

METAR BIEG 131600Z 36018KT 9999 -SHSN FEW009 BKN025 BKN057
M00/M01 Q1013 R04/790541 RMK TEMPO 34025KT 2500
SHSH VV004 RWY SANDED=

ICE
51-100% of runway covered
Depth 5 mm
Friction coefficient 0.41

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

....
Just curious as to how much i can trust this APP.

But its from the InterNet....isn't it always right?

kub

I wonder would it be possible to put in under runway heating to this proposed new runway at Dublin? Kind of like underfloor heating in houses?

How hard would it be?

When the snow arrives it could be quickly and effectively dealt with.

Gaoth Laidir

kub wrote: »

I wonder would it be possible to put in under runway heating to this proposed new runway at Dublin? Kind of like underfloor heating in houses?

How hard would it be?

When the snow arrives it could be quickly and effectively dealt with.

The amount of energy required would be enormous and totally unjustifiable for the few hours a year that snow causes issues.

Pat Dunne

kub wrote: »

I wonder would it be possible to put in under runway heating to this proposed new runway at Dublin? Kind of like underfloor heating in houses?

How hard would it be?

When the snow arrives it could be quickly and effectively dealt with.

I sure it is possible, but the infrastructure and running costs would be frightening!

ProfessorPlum

smurfjed wrote: »

My SNOWTAM app is actually showing the code 450893 as WET SNOW... big difference, did you get your dry snow reading from an APP or a book?

Just curious as to how much i can trust this APP.

I think you put the runway designator in incorrectly at the beginning. It takes the first two digits in the runway state group. If you leave it out (or use just one digit - i think that's what you did), well, it's just not going to work.

As for not trusting something just because it's "off the internet", well that's a bit ridiculous. Much more likely 'finger trouble'.

smurfjed

I think you put the runway designator in incorrectly at the beginning

Yep you got that right, after reading the links Growler!!! and Gaoth Laidir provided, i discovered that it was finger trouble.

afatbollix

Much cheaper to put in de icer sprayers, Maybe in the spring they could rent it out to Bernie Ecclestone and get some fun races in the wet.

Tabnabs

Dublin airport this morning


@micktwom

Dardania

Tabnabs wrote: »

Dublin airport this morning


@micktwom

very American looking truck - guess it cam from there?

donkey balls

Dardania wrote: »

very American looking truck - guess it cam from there?

All the new de icing trucks are left hookers all american made,Another problem with de icing is the fluid left on the stands after the aircraft departs you break your balls on it extremely slippy:eek:

Gaoth Laidir

What is that thing in the bottom of the picture, in front of the aircraft engine?

billie1b

donkey balls wrote: »

All the new de icing trucks are left hookers all american made,Another problem with de icing is the fluid left on the stands after the aircraft departs you break your balls on it extremely slippy:eek:

It absolutely stinks too

billie1b

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

What is that thing in the bottom of the picture, in front of the aircraft engine?

I could be mistaken but I think it might be part of the buggy chute on the airbridge

andy_g

donkey balls wrote: »

All the new de icing trucks are left hookers all american made,Another problem with de icing is the fluid left on the stands after the aircraft departs you break your balls on it extremely slippy:eek:

As i found out on stand 301 during the cold snap last week

donkey balls

andy_g wrote: »

As i found out on stand 301 during the cold snap last week

Yet the winter operating procedures state that after an aircraft has been de iced the cleaning trucks will swoop over the stand sucking up the fluid, Before the arriving aircraft comes on stand.

andy_g

donkey balls wrote: »

Yet the winter operating procedures state that after an aircraft has been de iced the cleaning trucks will swoop over the stand sucking up the fluid, Before the arriving aircraft comes on stand.

Cant mop everywhere. As the A/C was on stand and pigs were up for the pax so atleast they were away from it.

stopthepanic

donkey balls wrote: »

Yet the winter operating procedures state that after an aircraft has been de iced the cleaning trucks will swoop over the stand sucking up the fluid, Before the arriving aircraft comes on stand.

The airline or de-icing company are required to inform daa of what and where they are going to de-ice. This, in turn, leads to the cleaners being informed.

The call to daa does not always happen. Also due to the quick re-use of stands, they may not get in there before the next arrival while also trying to clean all the other stands at the airport.

Gaoth Laidir

This is the latest forecast discussion for the Philadelphia area. Imagine this weather in Ireland...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MOUNT HOLLY NJ
109 PM EST FRI JAN 22 2016
THE FOLLOWING DISCUSSION IS FOR KPHL, KPNE, KTTN, KABE, KRDG, KILG, KMIV, KACY AND SURROUNDING AREAS.

THIS AFTERNOON...VFR CIRRUS CIGS LOWERING WITH IFR SNOW BREAKING OUT KPHL/KILG AND KMIV BETWEEN 23Z-24Z/22. NORTH TO NORTHEAST WIND AROUND 10 KT WITH SCATTERED GUSTS AROUND 20 KT.

TONIGHT...THE 18Z TAFS ARE POSTED WITH HIGH CONFIDENCE. IFR VARIABLE LIFR IN SNOW, OCCASIONALLY HEAVY WITH BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW DEVELOPING WHEN NORTHEAST WIND GUSTS INCREASE TO BETWEEN 25 AND 45 KT AFTER 05Z/23. AIRPORT CLOSURES WITH PLOWING. FOUR TO 8 INCHES OF NEW DIFFICULT TO MEASURE SNOW ON THE GROUND AT ALL TAF SITES BY 12Z/23...HEAVIEST PROBABLY KPHL/PNE AND KILG.

SATURDAY...IFR/LIFR CONDITIONS CONTINUE THROUGH THE DAY WITH ALMOST CONTINUOUS HOURLY MODERATE TO HEAVY SNOW AND BLOWING-DRIFTING SNOW AT ALL TAF SITES EXCEPT A POSSIBLE BRIEF CHANGE TO RAIN OR SLEET KMIV/KACY DURING MORNING-MIDDAY. NE WINDS GUST 30 TO 40 KT EXCEPT NEAR 50 KT KACY. WINDS TURNING NORTHERLY DURING THE AFTERNOON AND GUSTS MAY DIMINISH 5 TO 10 KTS BY 23Z/23.


OUTLOOK...
SATURDAY AND SUNDAY...HIGH IMPACT WINTER STORM WITH SNOW, HEAVY AT TIMES, LEADING TO IFR/LIFR CONDITIONS. THE SNOW SHOULD MIX WITH SLEET OR CHANGE TO RAIN AT KMIV AND KACY FOR A TIME SATURDAY BEFORE CHANGING TO ALL SNOW SATURDAY EVENING. THE SNOW ENDS FROM WEST TO EAST LATER SATURDAY NIGHT AND EARLY SUNDAY MORNING. NORTHEAST WINDS WILL GUST UP TO 35 KNOTS SATURDAY AND SATURDAY EVENING AT THE I-95 CORRIDOR TERMINALS, WITH HIGHER WIND GUSTS AT KMIV AND KACY AND LESS AT KABE AND KRDG. WHERE THE SNOW REMAINS DRIER, THE GUSTY WINDS WILL RESULT IN BLOWING SNOW ACROSS THE AIRFIELDS. THE WINDS TURN NORTH SATURDAY NIGHT AND THEN NORTHWEST SUNDAY, AND WHILE DIMINISHING SOME THERE MAY BE SOME GUSTINESS LINGERING SUNDAY.

Tenger

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

This is the latest forecast discussion for the Philadelphia area. Imagine this weather in Ireland...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

DC/Baltimore expecting >24inches, Philly expecting a little less, 12 inches expected in New York.
I just looked at EI.com, they have cancelled their DUB-JFK flight tomorrow.

HoweverI would expect the airports to be open and operating again by Sunday/Monday. They are prepped for this situation. Irelnad would be closed for 5-7 days after 2 foot of snow.

fr336

Tenger wrote: »

DC/Baltimore expecting >24inches, Philly expecting a little less, 12 inches expected in New York.
I just looked at EI.com, they have cancelled their DUB-JFK flight tomorrow.

HoweverI would expect the airports to be open and operating again by Sunday/Monday. They are prepped for this situation. Irelnad would be closed for 5-7 days after 2 foot of snow.

Just like the UK.

JCX BXC

UA DUB-EWR
AA DUB-PHL
DL DUB-JFK
UA SNN-EWR

Also cancelled

J.pilkington

Don't get the "only in Ireland crap" which is a really negative view to take on life. Is Dublin the only European airport who rarely gets snow and struggles to deal with it when they do get it? Despite some posters taking the time to post knowledgable posts about the root cause these are quickly forgotten.

Dublin airport have clearly invested millions on equipment (plenty of tractors with the necessary equipment parked up 99.99% of the time doing nothing) to deal with the small chance of snow. How many heavy snow storms has Dublin had in the last 30 years? Are you willing to pay higher charges to equip Dublin to the standard of Chicago / JFK who are guaranteed a massive dump of snow several times a year and who have a massive team of experienced experts on standby.

I'm not making excuses for Dublin airport I'm just being realistic.