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Price of petrol

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    #32
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    It's all explained here: http://www.pumps.ie/FAQPricesExplained.php - basically you pay 83 cent for each litre of petrol (average cost per litre being 126.9 cent) to Inda and his merry band of Muppets to do as they please with it. As excise is fixed at the budget it stays the same, whereas VAT will increase or decrease slightly as the price of crude oil fluctuates. Better off getting a bike TBH!


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    #33
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    henryporter wrote: »
    It's all explained here: http://www.pumps.ie/FAQPricesExplained.php - basically you pay 83 cent for each litre of petrol (average cost per litre being 126.9 cent) to Inda and his merry band of Muppets to do as they please with it. As excise is fixed at the budget it stays the same, whereas VAT will increase or decrease slightly as the price of crude oil fluctuates. Better off getting a bike TBH!
    Can you imagine the mess the economy will be in if the government actually hit their EV targets. 10% of vehicles by 2020, and upwards after that. It's a huge chunk of revenue that will be lost from the (overly relied upon) tax at the pump.


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    #34
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    smash wrote: »
    Can you imagine the mess the economy will be in if the government actually hit their EV targets. 10% of vehicles by 2020, and upwards after that. It's a huge chunk of revenue that will be lost from the (overly relied upon) tax at the pump.

    EVs are actually good for the economy, we don't produce any oil in Ireland, its all imported

    however we can and do produce our own electricity

    EVs are the future you just can't see it yet, by 2020 you will see them everywhere


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    #35
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    nokia69 wrote: »
    EVs are actually good for the economy, we don't produce any oil in Ireland, its all imported

    however we can and do produce our own electricity
    Oil being imported vs us producing our own energy isn't a valid argument for economic viability. That is unless the government are going to lump 84c on every unit of electricity to compensate for what's being lost at the pump.
    nokia69 wrote: »
    EVs are the future you just can't see it yet, by 2020 you will see them everywhere

    I'm not convinced. They're becoming increasingly more expensive to run.


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    #36
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    smash wrote: »
    Oil being imported vs us producing our own energy isn't a valid argument for economic viability. That is unless the government are going to lump 84c on every unit of electricity to compensate for what's being lost at the pump.

    yes it is, if some one goes from spending 50 euro a week on imported petrol to less than 10 a week on electricity produced from wind energy, thats good for the economy

    smash wrote: »
    I'm not convinced. They're becoming increasingly more expensive to run.

    Still far cheaper than petrol and diesel, with far lower servicing costs, and we are only on the first generation of EVs, by 2020 EVs will be far better and far cheaper


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    #37
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,842 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is simply Euro V Dollar.

    If we had the same exchange rate in place as we had in the 2009, the last time oil was cheaper, you would only be paying 80-85c per litre at the moment.

    The Chinese stock market crisis may well dent the Dollar in the next few days, meaning your fuel will drop towards €1 a litre in the short term


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    #38
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    nokia69 wrote: »
    yes it is, if some one goes from spending 50 euro a week on imported petrol to less than 10 a week on electricity produced from wind energy, thats good for the economy
    €50.00 / 1.25 avg price = 40 litres = 33.60 in tax.

    But €10 on electricity of which a small amount is tax is better for the economy? How do you figure that the exchequer is going to recoup that money?
    nokia69 wrote: »
    Still far cheaper than petrol and diesel, with far lower servicing costs, and we are only on the first generation of EVs, by 2020 EVs will be far better and far cheaper

    Yea, because upwards of 8-10k for battery replacements after 8 years on a car with a 5yr warranty is common sense... They have a hell of a long way to go.


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    #39
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    smash wrote: »
    €50.00 / 1.25 avg price = 40 litres = 33.60 in tax.

    But €10 on electricity of which a small amount is tax is better for the economy? How do you figure that the exchequer is going to recoup that money?



    Yea, because upwards of 8-10k for battery replacements after 8 years on a car with a 5yr warranty is common sense... They have a hell of a long way to go.



    The resale value on those things must be shocking.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Petrol is always the same price when I buy it. No matter where I buy it. Good system I have going.


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    #41
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Petrol is always the same price when I buy it. No matter where I buy it. Good system I have going.


    Always forty quid.


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    #42
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    smash wrote: »
    €50.00 / 1.25 avg price = 40 litres = 33.60 in tax.

    But €10 on electricity of which a small amount is tax is better for the economy? How do you figure that the exchequer is going to recoup that money?

    If people spent their money on a local product instead of an imported one, thats good for the economy, its true for petrol, food, almost any product, also the money people save is spend on other goods in the economy, a few pints in the pub maybe or a meal in a restaurant

    yes the government collect less tax but again there are people who would argue thats a good thing
    smash wrote: »
    Yea, because upwards of 8-10k for battery replacements after 8 years on a car with a 5yr warranty is common sense... They have a hell of a long way to go.

    you assume that every battery will need to be replaced after 8 years, thats NOT the case, you must be getting your information from Jeremy Clarkson


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    #43
    Greyian
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Greyian


    smash wrote: »
    €50.00 / 1.25 avg price = 40 litres = 33.60 in tax.

    But €10 on electricity of which a small amount is tax is better for the economy? How do you figure that the exchequer is going to recoup that money?

    In fairness, it's not like the other 40 euro just disappears. It won't all be taken as tax, but it will increase consumer spending, which would lead to more jobs, more positivity/consumer confidence etc. Tax revenues would fall, but so would government expenses linked to unemployment etc.


    Saying all that, I don't think electric vehicles will be massively popular in 2020, so it's all fairly moot anyway. Until they get considerably better ranges, they just won't work for a lot of people.


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    #44
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    andersat2 wrote: »
    ok, so some statistics here:

    June 2014 - oil price: 110 USD/bbl
    June 2014 - oil price: 80.3 €/bbl
    June 2014 - average petrol price in Dublin: 1.50 Eur/L

    January 2016 - oil price: 35 USD/bbl (almost 3 times lower, than in 2014)
    January 2016 - oil price: 32 €/bbl
    January 2016 - average petrol price in Dublin: 1.29 Eur/L (20ct lower than in 2014).

    no changes in TAX since 2010.

    so who's bad?
    Just for comparison


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    #45
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    nokia69 wrote: »
    you assume that every battery will need to be replaced after 8 years, thats NOT the case, you must be getting your information from Jeremy Clarkson

    This was information I got from a BMW sales rep while discussing the i8.


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    #46
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    smash wrote: »
    This was information I got from a BMW sales rep while discussing the i8.

    Ah come on, the i8 is a car that costs something like 150K, and how did you ask the question, how much does it cost to replace the battery, or will I need to replace the battery

    Back when Toyoya started selling the Pruis people asked the very same question, but most Pruis batteries are good for well over 200K miles

    Did you ask how much it would cost to replace the engine


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    #47
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    nokia69 wrote: »
    Ah come on, the i8 is a car that costs something like 150K, and how did you ask the question, how much does it cost to replace the battery, or will I need to replace the battery

    Does the cost of the car matter? It's the battery technology that's the issue. I asked out straight what the lifespan was of the batteries, then asked what the replacement cost was. It's a serious issue with the cars and it's why when you buy a Renault EV car you don't own the batteries, you're just leasing them off Renault who will replace them so that the resale value isn't just scrap metal! It also means you're continually paying Renault and never really own the car.


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    #48
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    Ah come on, the i8 is a car that costs something like 150K, and how did you ask the question, how much does it cost to replace the battery, or will I need to replace the battery

    Back when Toyoya started selling the Pruis people asked the very same question, but most Pruis batteries are good for well over 200K miles

    Did you ask how much it would cost to replace the engine


    The Prius is a hybrid,not the same as an EV.


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    #49
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kneemos wrote: »
    The Prius is a hybrid,not the same as an EV.

    The i8 is a plug in hybrid and is not the same as a pure EV


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kneemos wrote: »
    Always forty quid.

    fifty :P


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    #51
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    smash wrote: »
    Does the cost of the car matter? It's the battery technology that's the issue. I asked out straight what the lifespan was of the batteries, then asked what the replacement cost was. It's a serious issue with the cars and it's why when you buy a Renault EV car you don't own the batteries, you're just leasing them off Renault who will replace them so that the resale value isn't just scrap metal! It also means you're continually paying Renault and never really own the car.

    Then don't buy a Renault EV, wait for the Tesla model 3, or a gen 2 Nissan Leaf

    Batteries can last for decades, it all depends on the chemistry and the battery management system


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    #52
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    The i8 is a plug in hybrid and is not the same as a pure EV


    Pretty much is if it's not recharged by the car itself.


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    #53
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kneemos wrote: »
    Pretty much is if it's not recharged by the car itself.

    I think it is recharged by the car itself, AFAIK it uses regen to charge the batteries, and under certain conditions the engine will charge the battery

    BTW BMW are going electric in a big way, by 2022 all BMWs 3 series and above will be plug in hybrids like the i8


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    #54
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I think it is recharged by the car itself, AFAIK it uses regen to charge the batteries, and under certain conditions the engine will charge the battery

    BTW BMW are going electric in a big way, by 2022 all BMWs 3 series and above will be plug in hybrids like the i8


    The Prius doesn't use Lithium batteries,probably where the difference lies.


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    #55
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kneemos wrote: »
    The Prius doesn't use Lithium batteries,probably where the difference lies.

    I think the new Prius does, and I expect its batteries to last just as well as the Nickel-Metal-Hydride used in the first Prius


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    #56
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Drop in the price of petrol = Juicy opportunity for all businesses to pocket the money from the reduced cost, instead of passing it on to the customer.

    Will companies (across the entire economy, since oil affects everything) compete with each other and bid the price of everything down over time?
    Eventually. Why ruin a good thing though, when they all know if they avoid aggressively competing with each other, that they can milk it...


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    #57
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by andersat2 View Post
    ok, so some statistics here:

    June 2014 - oil price: 110 USD/bbl
    June 2014 - oil price: 80.3 €/bbl
    June 2014 - average petrol price in Dublin: 1.50 Eur/L

    January 2016 - oil price: 35 USD/bbl (almost 3 times lower, than in 2014)
    January 2016 - oil price: 32 €/bbl
    January 2016 - average petrol price in Dublin: 1.29 Eur/L (20ct lower than in 2014).

    no changes in TAX since 2010.

    so who's bad?
    Just for comparison

    Assuming all the above figures are correct there is just one crucial figure that is missing from everyone's calculations so far in that there are 159 litres in a barrel of crude.

    Therefore:

    Price of crude per litre June 2014 is 50.5 cent
    Price now is 20 cent per litre

    The reduction at the pump should be 30 cent plus VAT = 37 Cent. but it has only fallen by about 20 cent. The difference is partly explained by processing costs also being denominated in $ and forward buying in a falling market but mostly it is down to the oil companies and distributors being slower to pass on the decreases than they are the increases (Quelle surprise!).

    Ultimately it will have to filter through because the oil companies will be trying to shift product as fast as they can or else they will be stuck with tank fulls of stuff they have paid dearly for when the market is being flooded with cheap stuff.


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    #58
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    Remember when "peak oil" was a thing for a few minutes that was going to end humanity as we knew it?


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    #59
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Since last time it was properly cheap they've put on about 20 cent so when I'm paying 110 at the mo it could actually be 90 ish cent


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    #60
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    All the new applegreens opening around the country seem to be driving the price down. A new one opened in my town and went to war with the other petrol station in town. Brought the price down from 1.12 to 1.07.
    smash wrote: »
    I'm not convinced. They're becoming increasingly more expensive to run.
    In what way? Maintenance wise they're much cheaper to run because there's less to go wrong. Current battery tech is a problem, Tesla reckon their battery will last ten years, which is very good for what's basically laptop batteries. And if a new battery every 8-10 years is your only major maintenance expense it's not too bad.

    There is new battery tech in bound, I don't know what they're like for lifespan, but who keeps a car for 10 years these days?


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    #61
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Tesla reckon their battery will last ten years, which is very good for what's basically laptop batteries. And if a new battery every 8-10 years is your only major maintenance expense it's not too bad.

    Tesla give an 8 year infinite milage warranty on the drive train and the battery, people seem to think that this means they battery will fail after 8 years and one day

    Toyota give 3 year/100,000 km warranty but few people assume that their Toyota will stop working after 3 years and one day

    its a strange bias people have


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