Problems with new car

markjh

I picked up a brand new car last January. Since buying it, I have had numerous problems with it. The most common issue was a fault with the electronic parking brake. I have been back to the dealers a number of times (at least 5 by now). Initially the switch was replaced, the problem came back, they took it back, etc. etc. but the problem wasn't solved. During the summer (August 15), it read the fault again so I took it back again. They replaced the switch and all the wiring going to the switch, which involved removing a significant amount of the centre console. Initially I was told this would take 2 days, but in the end I was almost two weeks waiting for the job to be complete.
I haven't had any problems since then.... That was until this evening.... Same fault appeared on the dash. Contacted dealer, said to bring it in, etc.

My question is this.... Have any of you experienced anything like this with a new car before? Where do I go from here? Would appreciate any advice any of you might have. Car is 2015 VW Golf.

Atlantic Dawn

Try going to VW Ireland perhaps to complain?

markjh

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Try going to VW Ireland perhaps to complain?

Thanks! I did think about that today but again I wasn't sure really what steps to take. I don't think I'm being unreasonable though.

savagethegoat

reject it and ask them to replace it.

Noccy_Mondy

You buy a new car to avoid these kind of problems. I'd contact vw and see what they have to say.

ben9195

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

You buy a new car to avoid these kind of problems. I'd contact vw and see what they have to say.

Perhaps a letter from a solicitor would be better.

Stallingrad

You have to give them a reasonable chance to fix the car, which you have. If after the third attempt the problem persist I would certainly look at rejecting it. But you do need to escalate it to VW Ireland.

Del2005

Stallingrad wrote: »

You have to give them a reasonable chance to fix the car, which you have. If after the third attempt the problem persist I would certainly look at rejecting it. But you do need to escalate it to VW Ireland.

Under consumer law the first fix has to be permanent, they have had too many attempts to fix it.

OP print out the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act and while being polite but assertive at all times tell them that you are rejecting the car.

Toyotafanboi

You have no chance of rejecting the car, you'd struggle to reject it after a week; one year on, it's just a fantasy. Don't waste your time or energy on it.

Google VW Irelands number, ask to speak to someone in warranty. Keep a calm head but explain your situation and be firm. That should be your next step.

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

Under consumer law the first fix has to be permanent, they have had too many attempts to fix it.

OP print out the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act and while being polite but assertive at all times tell them that you are rejecting the car.

:rolleyes:

R.O.R

If they've failed to fix the same issue after multiple attempts, it does sound like you have grounds to reject the car.

Start with the dealer - why people think you should immediately run to a solicitor is beyond me, that would just get the dealer's back up and make them less helpful.

Write a letter to the sales manager or dealer principle, stating the issue with the car, how many times it has been in for the same issue, and the dates it was in, then explain you would like to reject the vehicle due to ongoing issues that don't seem to have a resolution in sight.

Send it registered post so they can't just ignore it. Be firm but polite and chase up if you don't hear anything in a reasonable timeframe.

It's in the dealers interest to keep you happy, so they'll escalate to VW Ireland, or solve the issue themselves if they can do, without it costing them.

Hopefully you and the dealer can come to a suitable arrangement in a timely fashion.

Henry Ford III

Agreed.

Don't get fobbed off to VW Ireland either - as you didn't buy the car from them (and besides they have a few quite pressing issues of their own currently).

Toyotafanboi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Agreed.

Don't get fobbed off to VW Ireland either - as you didn't buy the car from them (and besides they have a few quite pressing issues of their own currently).

They're the best people to put the dealer under pressure to resolve it though. Clearly the dealer is doing a bit of piss taking if he's been back 5+ times. Troubleshooting an intermittent problem isn't easy but from the customers point of view something needs to happen.

Drummerboy08

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

They're the best people to put the dealer under pressure to resolve it though. Clearly the dealer is doing a bit of piss taking if he's been back 5+ times. Troubleshooting an intermittent problem isn't easy but from the customers point of view something needs to happen.

They're not really. VW ireland will just refer the customer back to the dealer.

The way to resolve it is to call and make an appointment to speak with the sales manager in the dealership.

When you sit down face to face, explain that the car has been returned on more than 3 occasions for the same issue, and that you want the car replaced.

The sales manager will then ask for some time to look into the issues at hand, and then to contact VW Ireland to get go ahead to either engage in a replacement or not.

The dealership won't be covering the cost of the replacement in all likelihood, VW ireland will.

There is simply no need to go down the route of solicitors or the sales of good act or any other act for that matter at this moment in time.

Toyotafanboi

Do VW go about replacing/ refunding one year old cars for "simple" faults though?

I'v seen plenty of people try to reject a car and usually the garage doesn't even entertain the thought. Admittedly i've never worked for VW.

Drummerboy08

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Do VW go about replacing/ refunding one year old cars for "simple" faults though?

I'v seen plenty of people try to reject a car and usually the garage doesn't even entertain the thought. Admittedly i've never worked for VW.

Shout loud enough and they will. The fact is that the dealer has 3 attempts to fix a fault, and after the 3rd attempt the customer has the right to a replacement or refund.

Chances are VW ireland warranty departmentwill already be aware of the customer in question.

Atlantic Dawn

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Do VW go about replacing/ refunding one year old cars for "simple" faults though?

I'v seen plenty of people try to reject a car and usually the garage doesn't even entertain the thought. Admittedly i've never worked for VW.

5 times going back with the same related fault though on a brand new car, it would look like either the car is a lemon or else those going about the repair don't have a clue. The dealer should get someone else who knows what they are doing to look at it. The next option might be a full replace of the entire handbrake system before a replacement car should be demanded.

I am aware the older VW Passat has well documented issues with the electronic handbrake but a quick google of VW Golf Electronic Handbrake only really shows issue with getting familiar with how the handbrake works and no defect so it doesn't appear to be a common fault..
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Do VW go about replacing/ refunding one year old cars for "simple" faults though?

No they do not, and no amount of shouting or waving your copy of the magical sale of goods act is going to change that.

Toyotafanboi

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

5 times going back with the same related fault though on a brand new car, it would look like either the car is a lemon or else those going about the repair don't have a clue. The dealer should get someone else who knows what they are doing to look at it. The next option might be a full replace of the entire handbrake system before a replacement car should be demanded.

The latter I would imagine.

Completely agree, they need to get someone looking at the car who knows what they are at.

i've been a few situations where customers attempted to reject a car and from what I can see, it doesn't happen. I've seen full cars taken from the d.c. and full systems swapped from new vehicles onto the troublesome one when being ok'd from head office.

Now i'm sure every manufacturer works differently but I can't see the OP handing back his used 151 for a brand new 161 because of a faulty handbrake, so personally i'd be slow of offering any advice of that nature.

magentis

I doubt very much they would entertain a replacement op,they may offer a decent discount against a new car if you shout loud enough,I would insist that they have another dealer look at the car.

markjh

Thanks for all the replies.
I contacted VW Ireland without giving specifics, just stated that I was looking for advice. As per usual, very informative and felt very much that they were on my side. The gentleman I spoke with was very clear about VW's stance on repeat fixes.

Rang dealer and spoke to dealer principal, who knew all the ins and outs of the problems I had had. It's booked in and he asked if I would meet him when I'm in.

Del2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

No they do not, and no amount of shouting or waving your copy of the magical sale of goods act is going to change that.

There's been numerous vehicles replaced for more spurious issues, a lot operator induced. Don't take any BS off the dealer or importer as consumer law clearly states that repairs need to be permanent and 5 attempts aren't permanent so the OP's next option is replacement or refund.

Toyotafanboi

Del2005 wrote: »

There's been numerous vehicles replaced for more spurious issues, a lot operator induced. Don't take any BS off the dealer or importer as consumer law clearly states that repairs need to be permanent and 5 attempts aren't permanent so the OP's next option is replacement or refund.

Have you any first hand examples where that happened?

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

There's been numerous vehicles replaced for more spurious issues, a lot operator induced. Don't take any BS off the dealer or importer as consumer law clearly states that repairs need to be permanent and 5 attempts aren't permanent so the OP's next option is replacement or refund.

The worst part about crap such as this is that it really doesn't help the OP. All this barstool rubbish about shouting loud and sale of goods act is not good advice for people in these situations and generally its only given by people who don't know what they are talking about.

Dealers and manufacturers do not replace new cars lightly, they never have and never will. Spouting unfounded rubbish about standing your ground until they give you a new car will just get the customer labelled a crank, how does that help them?

The OP has a minor fault with their vehicle and most importantly, the dealer have engaged with them at all times and taken reasonable steps to respond to each fault. Instead of waving the magic wand sale of goods act around their head the OP would be far better served fully understanding what is happening with their car and why, because engaging fully themselves with the dealer will bring a lot less stress and hassle than any willy waving "show dem whose boss" rubbish.

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Have you any first hand examples where that happened?

I've seen a new car blow a turbo 5 times in the first 3 months, wasn't replaced. Constant water leak at rear, wasn't replaced. Brand new range rover couldn't pull a horse trailer for a solicitor who probably knew every judge in NI, he still didn't get it replaced though.

Been in this industry far too many years now and seen tens of thousands of different faults on different cars and in that time I can recall one, maybe two new cars being replaced with new, its the nuclear option and while it happens it happens very very rarely. The OP is far better served being aware of that instead of being led towards something that is simply not going to happen.

Toyotafanboi

bucketybuck wrote: »

its the nuclear option and while it happens it happens very very rarely. The OP is far better served being aware of that instead of being led towards something that is simply not going to happen.

Completely agree.

Drummerboy08

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've seen a new car blow a turbo 5 times in the first 3 months, wasn't replaced. Constant water leak at rear, wasn't replaced. Brand new range rover couldn't pull a horse trailer for a solicitor who probably knew every judge in NI, he still didn't get it replaced though.

Been in this industry far too many years now and seen tens of thousands of different faults on different cars and in that time I can recall one, maybe two new cars being replaced with new, its the nuclear option and while it happens it happens very very rarely. The OP is far better served being aware of that instead of being led towards something that is simply not going to happen.

I've seen a 6 month old car replaced due to water ingress into the footwear that couldn't be repaired after 3 attempts.

I've seen a 3 month old Golf (as it happens) replaced because of an issue with the stop start system.

Just two examples in the past 2 years.

As I said previously, it happens and I've personally dealt with a number of cases in recent times where cars have been replaced due to repeat repairs failing.

I'm not going to argue with you on this, and you post a lot of good information but you're wrong here.

The customer is more than likely entitled to a replacement vehicle in this case, but I can only base my opinion on what's being posted here.

rex-x

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Shout loud enough and they will. The fact is that the dealer has 3 attempts to fix a fault, and after the 3rd attempt the customer has the right to a replacement or refund.

Chances are VW ireland warranty departmentwill already be aware of the customer in question.

I would just add a slight correction here, its after 1 attempt they have the right to seek redress, there is no 3 repair rule as all repairs must be permanent.

Drummerboy08

rex-x wrote: »

I would just add a slight correction here, its after 1 attempt they have the right to seek redress, there is no 3 repair rule as all repairs must be permanent.

No, a dealer has 3 opportunities to repair the same fault, after which time it is the dealers choice as to whether he replaces or refunds.

Any solicitor will tell you this.

rex-x

That has no place in Irish law, all repairs must be permanent is what the statute says, so they get one chance.

vandriver

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

No, a dealer has 3 opportunities to repair the same fault, after which time it is the dealers choice as to whether he replaces or refunds.

Any solicitor will tell you this.

A common but wrong belief.

Drummerboy08

rex-x wrote: »

That has no place in Irish law, all repairs must be permanent is what the statute says, so they get one chance.

I guess the barrister (who specialised in cases involving the motor industry) that gave the sales law module I studied was wrong so.

rex-x

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I guess the barrister (who specialised in cases involving the motor industry) that gave the sales law module I studied was wrong so.

They were incorrect, as stated in the post above it is a common but very wrong belief shared by many.

bucketybuck

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The customer is more than likely entitled to a replacement vehicle in this case, but I can only base my opinion on what's being posted here.

The only replacement vehicle the OP will get will be a courtesy car for a few days if they need it.

Manufacturers do not replace new cars easily, it simply does not happen for many reasons and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Unless you really think a business is going to swap a brand new car for a used car with significantly less value just because of a faulty switch.

This isn't my opinion, its my job.

bucketybuck

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I guess the barrister (who specialised in cases involving the motor industry) that gave the sales law module I studied was wrong so.

The solicitor we employ on staff to handle these cases disagrees.

R.O.R

bucketybuck wrote: »

The only replacement vehicle the OP will get will be a courtesy car for a few days if they need it.

Manufacturers do not replace new cars easily, it simply does not happen for many reasons and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Unless you really think a business is going to swap a brand new car for a used car with significantly less value just because of a faulty switch.

This isn't my opinion, its my job.

I've rejected 3 cars in the past few years and got replacements from the dealer / manufacturer. One did cost us a bit of money, the other 2 were FOC.

Now, we'd have a lot more influence than a member of the general public, and it's not been a smooth ride on any occasion, but it does happen.

One was for very minor, re-occuring electrical issues. Heated washer nozzles not working and rear wash wipe intermittent faults.

bucketybuck

R.O.R wrote: »

Now, we'd have a lot more influence than a member of the general public, and it's not been a smooth ride on any occasion, but it does happen.

I've never said it doesn't happen, I know it happens. I also know that its very unlikely to happen and so advising to push for it isn't particularly good advice for the OP.

Voodoomelon

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've seen a new car blow a turbo 5 times in the first 3 months, wasn't replaced.

I've agreed with everything you've said, but dear god, would you accept a car that blew a turbo 5 times in 3 months?
No way in hell i'd be accepting that and i've no clue how the dealer got away with it. That's a major, re-occuring fault.

bucketybuck

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I've agreed with everything you've said, but dear god, would you accept a car that blew a turbo 5 times in 3 months?
No way in hell i'd be accepting that and i've no clue how the dealer got away with it. That's a major, re-occuring fault.

It was the new type Ford Focus, in 2007 as I recall (new then of course), they had turbo problems right from the get go. It really was crap for us as a dealer, we would replace the turbo and check everything we could think of, test drive it for days and then release the car. A few weeks later it would be towed in with another blown turbo. Very frustrating.

Its also a good example of why dealers resist this idea of just replacing the car. I genuinely can't remember the details, but after a few months a fix was found, the car was sorted and she is still driving it to this day with no major issues since. (She brings it to my fathers independent for servicing). The car didn't need replacing, they rarely do, and people pushing for a new car everytime something goes wrong need to stop thinking of vehicles as being as disposable as dvd players.

Voodoomelon

I know what you're saying, we sell mechanical/electronic devices and when you get a new product that starts coming back and you can't figure out the ongoing fault, its an absolute nightmare.

That said, you guys didn't know what the fault was at the time, much like the customer didn't. I stand by what I said, no way would I continue to entertain a car with 4 failed repairs on a turbo, i'd do my absolute utmost to get a replacement vehicle regardless of whether the car as a whole, didn't need replacing.

I know what you're saying regarding people treating them like a DVD player, you can't just hand it back and demand a refund, but in that case they'd absolutely have grounds too in my eyes.
A parking brake is one thing, a turbo is another.

Drummerboy08

bucketybuck wrote: »

The only replacement vehicle the OP will get will be a courtesy car for a few days if they need it.

Manufacturers do not replace new cars easily, it simply does not happen for many reasons and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Unless you really think a business is going to swap a brand new car for a used car with significantly less value just because of a faulty switch.

This isn't my opinion, its my job.

It's also my job, and I'm basing everything I say on previous experience with my customers.

Drummerboy08

bucketybuck wrote: »

The solicitor we employ on staff to handle these cases disagrees.

This barrister was employed directly by BMW UK and Ireland to handle these cases, so I've an idea he knows what he's talking about.

bucketybuck

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know what you're saying, we sell mechanical/electronic devices and when you get a new product that starts coming back and you can't figure out the ongoing fault, its an absolute nightmare.

That said, you guys didn't know what the fault was at the time, much like the customer didn't. I stand by what I said, no way would I continue to entertain a car with 4 failed repairs on a turbo, i'd do my absolute utmost to get a replacement vehicle regardless of whether the car as a whole, didn't need replacing.

She certainly would have had a far better case for it than the OP has, but thats back to the point I guess, even in as genuine a case as that there was real resistance from our bosses to any replacement.