Wedding Woes

LegacyUser

Hey guys, I am hoping just to get an outside perspective...

I recently proposed to my now fiance and we couldn't be happier. As she has an elderly grandfather (her own dad passed away last year) we are planning for a relatively quick wedding.

The problem/argument boils down to guest numbers. We have a hard limit of 200 guests. I come from a small family so I am inviting about 25 family and another 20 friends. Her side is the rest. However once we include her cousin's kids we quickly exceed 200.. there lies the problem.

I am Godfather to my sisters three girls and couldn't imagine a wedding without them. We are very close. They are 9,10 and 12. But my fiance wants to bad kids to keep the numbers down...she hasn't even met most of her cousin's children.

Apparently I am being completely unreasonable as she cannot invite all of her extended family as it is. Am I?

Lux23

I think you have to cut corners somewhere and it is probably fairer to leave the kids at home on both sides.

Neyite

Nope.

You have given her over three-quarters of the guest list places. She can figure out who gets bumped off the list herself from her side without taking more places from your meagre allocation.

It's your wedding too.

It's usual to limit family to immediate aunts and uncles - in our family they'd be invited but not all their children, save for one or two that might be particularly close to either bride or groom. Usually it's nieces and nephews only where children are concerned, from what I've seen.

And a word of warning - be wary of extended family wading in with their opinions on who must get an invite.

Xterminator

i have a word for you - compromise.

can you see her point of view? you want to bring kids but if she says to her side no kids, and they turn up and see kids from your side that would lead to some awkward moments; dont you think?

im not saying your wrong just try to put yourself in her shoes. they maybe you can come up with an acceptable formula that works for you both.

As far as i can see you are asking boardsies to take your side or hers. Nope. that wont help.

srdb20

I think if your only inviting 45 out of 200 guests, your well within your rights to be requesting 3 close family members (whether they be children or not) to attend.

LegacyUser

I think you both could compromise a little bit. Does she need to invite all of her cousins or can she just invite the few that she's close to as mentioned above? I think as they're your god children and nieces/nephews, you're well within your right to invite the children. Perhaps your Fiancee could invite her god children and leave it at that? There's no need to invite every member of her family plus all of their children!

ibarelycare

Limit the children invited to nieces and nephews only. Not cousins' children. It's ridiculous to invite children who neither of you have even met. I wouldn't even invite most of my cousins to my wedding!

Neyite

Xterminator wrote: »

you want to bring kids but if she says to her side no kids, and they turn up and see kids from your side that would lead to some awkward moments; dont you think.

While I agree with this, he wants to invite his nephews and nieces, she wants children of cousins, presumably as well as nephews and nieces. Where do you draw the line then?

A compromise is to invite nieces and nephews on both sides, and then adults only when it comes to cousins.

pkvader

Would an extra 10/15 people push things to far?,considering there's 200 going anyway,for piece I'd invite the extra guests on both sides.You may send out 200 invites,but only 180 may be able to attend,not all cousins,extended family etc may not be able to attend.

Edit:a lot of people don't bother bringing kids to weddings even if invited,a lot of couples treat it as an adult day out and a chance to get away from the kids for a day/night.

woodchuck

In THEORY I think that you are perfectly entitled to invite the nieces and leave all of her cousins kids out of it.

HOWEVER I would advise that it's either all kids, or none. The reason I say this is because my parents had a very similar discussion over 30 years ago and decided to invite the godchildren, but not the cousins (or possibly cousins kids). The guests could not understand the distinction and thought it was a disgrace that certain peoples kids were invited, but not others. This is something that was dragged up in arguments by the two families years later. Repeatedly. Maybe your family will be more reasonable and understanding... but I think you could save yourself an awful lot of trouble in the long run if you set an 'all kids or none' rule.

Sleepy

It'd be fairly unusual to be inviting cousin's kids to a wedding tbh. Usually it's just nieces / nephews and the couples own children at a wedding ime.
Actually as there's only the three of them could you make them pageboys / flower girls and exclude all other kids?

jimmycrackcorm

You should stand your ground on the principle that she already gets to choose more than 50% of the guest list and you are asking to choose your nieces when she is asking about kids that aren't even that close.

Anyway it's a good lesson on being able to compromise when married so stand up for what appears to all intents to be right.

ElleEm

Wow, she really needs to compromise here. She is taking 3/4 of the guest list already! What about just including nieces and nephews but have them gone after the meal so the parents can have the night off? Inviting cousin's children is ridiculous when you don't know them.

LegacyUser

If the limit of 200 is, as you say, a hard limit, I think you can set out you part of the guest list and tell her the remaining places are hers to fill. At the moment that's 155 places for her (or 152 if your nieces and nephews are added, I'm not sure if you included them in your numbers), which is hugely disproportionate in her favour either way, roughly 3:1. If she has to exclude the neighbour's dog or distant members of her extended family, well, that's just too bad, she'll just have to learn how to make hard choices.

Dial Hard

Different Compromise wrote: »

I think you both could compromise a little bit. Does she need to invite all of her cousins or can she just invite the few that she's close to as mentioned above?

It's not her cousins she wants to invite, it's them AND their kids. Big difference.

I didn't even invite all my cousins to my wedding. Cousins' kids is pushing it waaaay too far, imo.

pookie82

To those saying "whoa, she already had three quarters of the guest list here!!" - that's not necessarily her *fault*. Anyone I marry, should I choose a big family wedding, will most likely also be outnumbered by my numbers - my mother had a lot of siblings and in turn they had unusually big families. It's not like I'd *choose* a massive number. Equally he can't help that his family is small.

OP, I would keep it to children of siblings on either side only, and not cousins' kids. There should be a clear enough distinction there to ruffle few feathers.

To be honest, though, weddings are rarely fun for kids. How about having your sisters' kids at the church only, getting photos with them etc., and then having a kid-free reception. Would that help? Although I don't envy you explaining to the couple that they have to get rid of their kids for the afters. Will a 9 year old last the entire day, though? If not, he/she will be dragging at least one parent up to bed early with them. Perhaps the parents would like an evening out on their own as a couple.

Either way, I don't think it's fair of your fiance to say "all kids or no kids". There's a huge difference between your close nieces and nephews and the offspring of cousins who you've yet to even meet.

PearlJ

I think there's big difference in inviting your nieces and nephews who will be part of the wedding party and inviting your cousins children!
I would never expect any of my cousins to invite my children to their wedding.
I think your fiance is the once being unreasonable.

Why don't you compromise that the only children asked are nieces and nephews over a certain age. At 9, 10 and 12 your nieces will do their own thing. There'll be no minding in them.

LegacyUser

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. I am not trying to get you to side with me or her. I just cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment.

I suggested only nieces and nephews from both sides. But her one nephew is 21 so he's an adult really. She would be happy for my ones to be her flower girls.

Compounding the matter is the fact that my side would take it as a big insult if the kids didn't come. We are a small family and the little ones are a major part of it. So there is a reasonable chance my sister (and maybe my father) wouldn't come. Not easy at all and unfortunately as I don't really have any answers/alternatives at the moment. I offered to cut out three of my friends to make space for the girls but that wasn't a go.

She's very firmly in the 'all kids or no kids' camp.

I am happy for the cousin's kids that we know. But cousins and children of cousins she hasn't seen in 20 years because she went to their wedding when she was 10?

Mehapoy

PearlJ wrote: »

I think there's big difference in inviting your nieces and nephews who will be part of the wedding party and inviting your cousins children!
I would never expect any of my cousins to invite my children to their wedding.
I think your fiance is the once being unreasonable.

Why don't you compromise that the only children asked are nieces and nephews over a certain age. At 9, 10 and 12 your nieces will do their own thing. There'll be no minding in them.

But that isn't really the point though, the question is whether to invite her cousins children, your sibling's children are part of your immediate family, your cousins kids aren't, normally speaking... You're comparing nieces and nephews to second cousins, a whole order away in terms of family relations.
Normally in bigger familys not even all the cousins would get an invite if the numbers are being kept small

Neyite

pookie82 wrote: »

To those saying "whoa, she already had three quarters of the guest list here!!" - that's not necessarily her *fault*. Anyone I marry, should I choose a big family wedding, will most likely also be outnumbered by my numbers - my mother had a lot of siblings and in turn they had unusually big families. It's not like I'd *choose* a massive number. Equally he can't help that his family is small.

I'm not saying its her fault, and I think the op already is fine with that. But when the maximum numbers they can afford is 200, and he is only using 45 of those invites, that leaves her with 155 on her side - surely that's plenty for even a big family.

The OP's fiancée needs to sit with her parents and compile the list on her side. If its over 155, then they need to go through the list and see who can be crossed off. It's rare these days to see a wedding with every cousin let alone all the kids too, and I'm not sure that the bride to be knows that.

Neyite

NewEngagged wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. I am not trying to get you to side with me or her. I just cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment.

I suggested only nieces and nephews from both sides. But her one nephew is 21 so he's an adult really. She would be happy for my ones to be her flower girls.

Compounding the matter is the fact that my side would take it as a big insult if the kids didn't come. We are a small family and the little ones are a major part of it. So there is a reasonable chance my sister (and maybe my father) wouldn't come. Not easy at all and unfortunately as I don't really have any answers/alternatives at the moment. I offered to cut out three of my friends to make space for the girls but that wasn't a go.

She's very firmly in the 'all kids or no kids' camp.

I am happy for the cousin's kids that we know. But cousins and children of cousins she hasn't seen in 20 years because she went to their wedding when she was 10?

So if they are the flower girls, does that mean then that they are at the wedding by default as it were? Or is she saying that they can only be flower girls if her cousins kids come too?

She's not willing to compromise whatsoever. Even when you've offered to shave 3 friends off your list to accommodate the children. That does not bode well. She cant be the first out of the family to marry if she has a 21 year old nephew so what did her siblings do? Could they offer the strategy they used as suggestions for you both to consider?

LegacyUser

She is sayings it's all kids or no kids. I can see where she is coming from, she simply doesn't want to fight with any of her family.

To be fair she is closer to her cousins than her sister (who didn't marry). So i would really like them and their kids to be there too. The only issue i have is with children of cousins she hasn't seen since she herself was a child! She is trying to be too fair to all. When I don't thin we can be.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone can convince me that my nieces are as/less important to our wedding day as cousin's kids the bride to be hasn't seen since she was a kid??

gazzer

Siblings children and godchildren only and no others. Your bride to be needs to compromise here. Having 3/4 of the guest list for her side of the family is not on. When we got married we explained to both of our families (who wanted all of their nieces and nephews there)that if they wanted all of our cousins present they could come but not with partners. As it turned out a lot of cousins (we hadnt seen most of them in years) declined the invitation because of this which was fine with us and the cousins that we did have a relationship with came. Its your day too and you should have a say in who you want present on your big day.

LegacyUser

NewEngagged wrote: »

She is trying to be too fair to all. When I don't thin we can be.

One or both of you are making the mistake of thinking that fairness means treating everybody the same. Some friends will be closer to you than some immediate family and much closer than extended family and the fact is that wedding guest lists create a hierarchy, like it or not. Being fair to yourselves and your guests will involve excluding somebody, but that's perfectly ok, not everybody gets to go to every event. I think you need to get you fiancé to understand that, to understand that your nieces and nephews who you are close to are not the equivalent of her distant cousin's children. To insist on a blanket ban of children would be extremely unfair on you, unfair on your immediate family and unfair on your nieces and nephews.

A blanket ban has become her strongarm tactic, to force you to accept her choices or force you not to have your choices. It also means that if she loses and there's no kids at the wedding, she can blame the blanket ban instead of being honest with distant relatives and, I'm guessing, blame it on you too, "Ah, I'd love to have you, but NewEngagged wouldn't agree".

She might want to think too about the fact that those distant relatives may not expect to come to the wedding, or even want to. For a lot of people, a wedding invitation is like a summons though the door, it's a day you don't want to be part of and will cost a few quid. Other people's wedding aren't necessarily as popular or exciting as some couples think.

K_P

Your fiance needs to compromise here as you've been willing to compromise. Inviting children of cousins she barely knows is crazy and (unless said cousins are complete loopers) is not going to be anything people will be offended at or fall out over. I get that she's trying to avoid offending anyone but by sticking to a hard and fast no children rule your godchildren will be excluded while cousins she barely knows will be there. That's a ridiculous proposition.

LegacyUser

NewEngagged wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Compounding the matter is the fact that my side would take it as a big insult if the kids didn't come. We are a small family and the little ones are a major part of it. So there is a reasonable chance my sister (and maybe my father) wouldn't come. Not easy at all and unfortunately as I don't really have any answers/alternatives at the moment. I offered to cut out three of my friends to make space for the girls but that wasn't a go.

She's very firmly in the 'all kids or no kids' camp.

?

Op so if you ditch the kids on your side it is likely your dad and sister won't attend!! Have you told your fiancé this and if so what was her reaction?
If anyone needs to compromise its her.

Dee01

What will it bring your final number to if you include all the kids? If it's around the 220/230 mark, you can be fairly sure you won't break the 200.....

Personally (and it's very personal - Not many agree with me!) I don't think weddings are a place for children. Lots of booze and adult things going on. We had no kids at our wedding.... Some parents were delighted and some weren't impressed at all and didn't come as a result. Our wedding so our choice.

Regardless of the ratio of guests, your nieces/nephews are a big part of your life and you want them there, Therefore, they should be there.

pkvader

Dee01 wrote: »

What will it bring your final number to if you include all the kids? If it's around the 220/230 mark, you can be fairly sure you won't break the 200.....

Personally (and it's very personal - Not many agree with me!) I don't think weddings are a place for children. Lots of booze and adult things going on. We had no kids at our wedding.... Some parents were delighted and some weren't impressed at all and didn't come as a result. Our wedding so our choice.

Regardless of the ratio of guests, your nieces/nephews are a big part of your life and you want them there, Therefore, they should be there.

We asked friends and family straight up did they want to bring the kids to our wedding,99% said they wouldn't be bringing the kids,a few people said they would bring the kids so we said no problem to those that wanted.

I've never brought my kids to a wedding,not because I'm pc and don't want them around drunk adults,more so to give my wife and myself a day out kids free.

StanleyOllie

Weddings are expensive for people to go to. New outfits, possible stay over, present and spending money. Asking kids on top of that is extra expense. I think you should ask nieces and nephews though.
Weddings can cause such stress for one very quick day. Look see if she will comprise. Put on the invite that kids can come if they wish or to afters. But believe me most people will want a day out without kids. Way less stressful. Very few will turn up. Its not expected.

Gwynplaine

I got married 2 months ago. What we did was, our siblings brought their kids if they wanted (they all came). And that was it. Cousins and partners came without their kids, so did friends.
Non of them even asked anyway if they could bring their kids, but our answer would have been. "No kids, except for our own nieces and nephews"

A compromise needs to be found soon. And don't let family members influence you. And don't let her invite whoever she likes just to keep the peace.

freshpopcorn

I think ye need to look at ye're guest list and decided who ye really want at ye're wedding. There's no point of inviting people for the sake of it. I'd also look at inviting some far out cousins only to the afters.(when I say the afters I mean the bit at 9pm in the evening when sandwiches and finger food is servered)
People who'll make a fuss over their kids not being invited generally make a fuss if their kids are invited(with all the extra expense etc)
I'd also be looking at future events. If ye do start a family and have communions/confirmatuons. Who would be invited? If one of her cousins gets asked does that mean everybody gets asked?
Good luck!

Sarn

How about all kids are invited but the hard cap remains at 200. That means that she will have to make some tough decisions. Given that the bulk of the guests are on her side it only seems fair.

coolhandluke

We had a rule that worked fine for us, anybody who lived in ireland that we hadn't seen in 5 years didn't get an invite.......so aunts and uncles were cut, while 2nd cousins we wanted got invited.

Have who you want there, not who you think should be there.......lets parents invite 2 people each of their choosing.

I find it very had to believe your future wife sees 150+ of her relatives on a regular basis.

Rachiee

I can understand your fiance being anxious about upsetting any of her family. But there is no way to do a guest list without putting someone's nose out of joint some people have a profound sense of entitlement around weddings. But really I think the vast majority of people wouldn't look at 3 kids who are part of the wedding party and directly related to the groom and wonder why they are there when their kids weren't invited most people don't expect invites for their kids but even if they did the difference is obvious I don't think your partner would have anything to worry about. If she explains it to a few close family memebers it's a strict cap so we are only having nieces and nephews there shouldnt be any fall out.

CaraMay

Sarn wrote: »

How about all kids are invited but the hard cap remains at 200. That means that she will have to make some tough decisions. Given that the bulk of the guests are on her side it only seems fair.

This is the only way to do it. You keep your numbers plus your nephews and nieces and she can cull her 'side'.

She's being incredibly selfish.

dove2011

Cousins kids are completely different to your nieces and nephews....I think she needs to compromise.

My sister got engaged at Christmas, wedding in May this year. Small wedding only 25 people but you can see the pressure building already for them to agree on the running of the day, budget etc etc...

screamer

I know that you have only a few of the numbers and she has the most but inviting ir excluding kids from weddings is one thing that can bitterly split families.

We had all the kids there and wouldn't have excluded any of them kids are just kids. some people brought them others didnt and Most of them were gone by 10pm anyways but it's an each to their own decision.

You'll need an all or none policy even on your side. Exceptions are if the kids are involved in the wedding ceremony e.g. pageboys flowergirls ushers. Whatever you do dont start married life arguing over guest lists reach a compromise and go ahead with your plans.

endacl

Sorry. Her cousins' kids? Who dafuq invites their cousins' kids to a wedding?!?

SAMTALK

endacl wrote: »

Sorry. Her cousins' kids? Who dafuq invites their cousins' kids to a wedding?!?

Have to agree with this. Inviting nieces and nephews is one thing but cousins kids????.
Its not your fault that her nieces and nephews are grown up. They are still nieces and nephews so tough.
Have you cousins and are they and their kids invited as well?
We have a large family so nieces nephews aunts uncles and only cousins that I would be close to (most def not their kids)
To be honest most adults would prefer if kids not invited to weddings so it takes the hassle out of it for them. ( no new clothes, no accommodation, no following them around all day.....)

stargazer 68

endacl wrote: »

Sorry. Her cousins' kids? Who dafuq invites their cousins' kids to a wedding?!?

Have to agree with this too - totally bonkers! We are getting married this year and have all our nieces and nephews - although they are all over the age of 12 bar one. We don't have any cousins at all coming - and I am very close to mine - we simply don't have the space!

Mehapoy

Also if I get the story right the OP has 3 nieces that he wants to invite, his fiancé's nieces and nephews are grown up so will be going anyway but if her cousins kids aren't invited she wants to stop his nieces from going...that seems quite petty and bit mean, she will be their aunt after the wedding, would be a bit of a red flag for me about this girl that youre planning on spending the rest of your life with if she's being like that even before getting married?

LegacyUser

I'm going to say something different here - I say invite them all.

Economise in another area - the fancy car that costs a bleedin fortune just to be a photo op. (We had no car, saved a fortune, nobody ever asked wheres the Rolls. The brother had a company car we used cos it was new and fancy)

Or honeymoon in Gran Canaria on the cheap and tell everyone youd rather have the big holiday another year when you could afford to do the dog on it. You'll find everyone nods sagely at that one.

Remember that if you dont have the dreaded Debenhams wedding list, you'll have around 100 envelopes stuffed with cash coming your way. You may be able to sfford the cousins kids easier than you think.

LegacyUser

I know this will seem like mean spirited advice but fado, fado I worked as family law solicitor.

Time and time again, the thing that brought clients into my office was poor communication issues. You and your partner need to find a way for ye to communicate properly. It is crazy you can't agree something as relatively minor as this. What will ye do when you have a serious decision to make? Things that could affect where ye will live, if ye'll have kids, how you'll raise them etc.

Ye should be starting a really great adventure, but start it right. Talk to each other properly, imo. Find a bigger venue, find extra places, elope, etc, but mostly start really talking about this with each other. It sounds like neither of ye are great at compromise but compromising is crucial.

I left my old job because I found the levels of unhappiness hard to take. I used to always think that each couple fighting (often very bitterly) had started out with the best intentions and full of love for each other.

Good luck in the marriage btw, done right I'm sure ye will have a happy life together.

Hrududu

John: So Mary, we can only invite 200 people to the wedding. Lets split it in two and invite half each
Mary: That sounds fair
John: I've picked all the people I want, including my nieces, turns out I only needed 50 invitations so why don't you take my remaining 50
Mary: That sounds fair...

Mary: So I've done my sums and my 70 million cousins want to bring their children. We're going to have to not invite your nieces so that I can say no kids are coming otherwise I'll look like the bad guy

She's being very unreasonable. I'd invite the nieces and nephews. The cousins will get their invites with no mention of the kids. If they ask can the kids come be apologetic and tell them you didn't have the finances to invite any more people.

This thing about No Kids vs Every Kid that Belongs To Everyone being invited is ridiculous. You can invite 200 people. Invite them and include who you want. And if I were you I'd honestly show your fiance this thread.

Ruby31

Hrududu wrote: »

John: So Mary, we can only invite 200 people to the wedding. Lets split it in two and invite half each
Mary: That sounds fair
John: I've picked all the people I want, including my nieces, turns out I only needed 50 invitations so why don't you take my remaining 50
Mary: That sounds fair...

Mary: So I've done my sums and my 70 million cousins want to bring their children. We're going to have to not invite your nieces so that I can say no kids are coming otherwise I'll look like the bad guy

She's being very unreasonable. I'd invite the nieces and nephews. The cousins will get their invites with no mention of the kids. If they ask can the kids come be apologetic and tell them you didn't have the finances to invite any more people.

This thing about No Kids vs Every Kid that Belongs To Everyone being invited is ridiculous. You can invite 200 people. Invite them and include who you want. And if I were you I'd honestly show your fiance this thread.

The problem is the sister & dad refusing to go if her kids aren't going to be there.

endacl

Ruby31 wrote: »

The problem is the sister & dad refusing to go if her kids aren't going to be there.

That's their choice. Frees up more seats for reasonable people?

Ruby31

endacl wrote: »

That's their choice. Frees up more seats for reasonable people?

I totally agree and I hold such wrath for people who create more stress for a bride and groom (having been through it recently myself!).

Hemerodrome

endacl wrote: »

That's their choice. Frees up more seats for reasonable people?

The OP is from a small, close family, if they decided not to go because the OP was forced to exclude some of them for a poor reason, that's far from an unreasonable reaction.

LegacyUser

Hey Guys, Op Here..

Sorry for not replying, we have been looking into other venues.

My cousin's children are not invited. I agree that quite often a wedding is not the place for kids (especially after the meal etc) and that a lot of parents like the night out away from them. But we feel it's too risky to gamble on inviting them all with the hope that most/some dont bring their kids.

Our preferred venue is very strict on the numbers, so it's not a case of cutting back on other parts of the wedding to accommodate more people.

I think in the end that we may have to go with a different venue which will drastically increase the budget but solve all our problems.

I should point out that we have made massive life decisions together already with compromise on both sides, i.e. mortgages, future kids etc..

LegacyUser

It is very unusual to invite all your cousins, not to say their children to a wedding these days. The only cousins I had at my wedding were the ones I was very close to and it didn't even enter my head to invite their children to be honest!

As one poster said, it should be nieces & nephews only and it doesn't matter if your fiancées ones are older than yours.

Unfortunately planning a wedding can be a minefield and cause loads of stress, however you will have to sit down with your fiancée and decide on a few ground rules now before the madness takes over. At the moment it sounds like your fiancée and her family will have more of an input into your wedding than you or your family and this will only cause resentment in the long run.

DukeOfTheSharp

This just seems like a horribly mismanaged situation where neither of you are communicating. Maybe it's the wedding panic or something, but in my view, you're not really taking up that much space. 45 people including three kids? Cool. Who cares if some people feel uncomfortable, it's your wedding and they're getting free food, if they've a problem they can decline and free up space for friends and people who aren't selfish. I agree with the poster who said that this is a relatively minor decision, and that it bodes poorly for your future should the two of you come across something much more difficult to compromise on.

I think that in some cases some special circumstances need to be observed; your situation isn't your fiance's situation, you come from a small family, these three are important to you and you're asking for 3 places for them. It shouldn't be a big deal, but this all or nothing nonsense she's taking needs to stop. Sit down and talk about this, because her not budging doesn't bode well. Neither does getting a more expensive venue. That's not compromise, because she's still getting what she wants, and only her, while you have to shoulder the finances too - despite your reasonable request. A whole new venue and a lot more money for the sake of inviting three children in a close-knit and small family, just because the bride-to-be has adopted a hard-arse stance? That doesn't bode well for the future.