Punitive car insurance hike

puckmymuskie

My insurance is due for renewal at the end of the month and I got my price for next year. I'm with AXA and my premium last year was €472.52. Now they want €861.42 for the exact same policy on same car, a 99 Toyota Corrola 1.3.

It works out to be an 82% increase. I Checked with other companies and they are all giving roughly the same price.

Anyone else getting shafted for that much out there?

Atlantic Dawn

It's going up for everyone, perhaps try ring a broker and they may be able to find a better quote. Make sure your occupation is correct on the quotes.

puckmymuskie

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's going up for everyone, perhaps try ring a broker and they may be able to find a better quote. Make sure your occupation is correct on the quotes.

Ya I left my number with a few I'll probably hear from them monday. I know its gone up for everyone but a 82% increase is just a piss take and I've a perfect driving history full no claims and all that.

biko

Your mistake is thinking insurers reward loyalty.
They don't.

bigpink

What difference does a job make?

SBPhoto

This topic is bleed to death already, plenty of other posts re same

rubberdungeon

An astonishing €100 out of every Irish motorist's annual car insurance premium goes towards paying for fraud and the collapse of Quinn Insurance, a new analysis has shown.

And drivers will be paying for the collapse of the insurer for another 13 years even though they have already paid out a massive €236m.

The impact of common fraud on car insurance premiums is also rising.

Motorists due to renew their car insurance this month will be paying an average of €50 extra because of the activities of fraudsters on our roads, according to the Automobile Association (AA).

Four years ago, a 2pc levy on all non-life insurance premiums was introduced after the demise of Quinn Insurance.

And it will be at least 2029 before the full cost of the collapse is recovered. That's also adding €50 a year to the cost of car insurance for every motorist in Ireland.

The money is paid into the Insurance Compensation Fund and another €900m will be taken from non-life insurance premiums over the next decade and a half.

An AA survey of 5,000 motorists shows that one in three Irish motorists has seen the cost of their insurance rise by up to 50pc this year.

The association says the price hikes are leading to more drivers opting for reduced levels of insurance cover in an attempt to manage costs.

A further three in ten are forking out up to an extra 20pc this year, while around one in four policyholders saw no change in the cost of their premiums. Just 5pc witnessed a cost reduction.

"After a long period of cost stability, average prices have risen by almost 40pc since January 2014," says AA Chief Executive Officer Brendan Nevin.

Fraud, high legal and claims costs, poorly resourced regulation and low levels of enforcement have cost motorists dearly, according to Mr Nevin.

More than one in four motorists say they were forced to purchase lesser cover and risk facing heavier financial consequences from a potential accident. "Fraud continues to be a major problem - from criminal staging of "accidents" to fraudulent production of bogus "no-claims certificates" by drivers changing insurers, says Conor Faughnan of the AA.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/fraud-and-quinn-collapse-cost-drivers-100-a-year-34331288.html

TheRealMadmix

my for 00 avensis, last year they got my €800, this year they want €1400 (AXA)... recently I played a lot with quotes online and looks like the most important factors for them is the year of a car, even with bigger engine but 06 car I am able to get €900 with few insurers.

pablo128

Quinn Direct enter the market, bringing affordable insurance for all, including many young drivers who literally could not even get a quote from other insurers.

Quinn then get into financial bother. The State seize the opportunity to seize his profitable insurance company from him.

Something something public get hit with a charge, and Quinn Insurance is handed to Liberty Insurance. Who then leave the car insurance market.

Quinn and Liberty gone, and insurance goes sky high again.

Seems legit.

dr.fuzzenstein

And not a fcking thing will be done about it. The government won't lift a finger, since A: they're lazy bastards ad when something can be ignored and managed by sitting on your arse (in the Dail bar), they will do exactly that and B: one thing they would have to do is reform the legal sector and since a lot of them came from there and have friends and family there, they would rather have their own eyeballs for dinner than piss in that particular soup. It's a state sanctioned racket and should qualify as theft, because helping someone with no injuries whatsoever to net themselves a nifty €20k is theft in all but name.
So as with everything, you have to ask yourself the question "how would this get managed if the people managing it were thick, lazy, incompetent and looking out for their cronies" and 10 times out of 10, that is exactly what is going to happen.
And once the government gets involved, it doesn't matter what the question is, the answer will be "raise prices, hike taxes, ban it". They have looked at other countries and how things get managed there by analysing the issue and taking appropriate action. A boozy 3am vote in the Dail bar has resulted in a motion called "fcuk that sh*t, let's have another drink, just raise taxes as usual".

SteM

I thought our quoted 35% increase with AXA was bad.

newacc2015

pablo128 wrote: »

Quinn Direct enter the market, bringing affordable insurance for all, including many young drivers who literally could not even get a quote from other insurers.

Quinn then get into financial bother. The State seize the opportunity to seize his profitable insurance company from him.

Something something public get hit with a charge, and Quinn Insurance is handed to Liberty Insurance. Who then leave the car insurance market.

Quinn and Liberty gone, and insurance goes sky high again.

Seems legit.

You might want to read what Quinn actually did to lose his company. The company failed to keep adequate cash reserves, which is completely unacceptable and lent money to other parts of his empire.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/central-bank-to-investigate-former-quinn-insurance-management-1.2425484

There is still insurers giving quotes to young drivers. They only give them out to realistic cars.

pablo128

newacc2015 wrote: »

You might want to read what Quinn actually did to lose his company. The company failed to keep adequate cash reserves, which is completely unacceptable and lent money to other parts of his empire.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/central-bank-to-investigate-former-quinn-insurance-management-1.2425484

There is still insurers giving quotes to young drivers. They only give them out to realistic cars.

Realistic cars as opposed to what? Pretend cars? 'Oh you young pup, how dare you contemplate over a 1.2 engine. You'll drive a girls car and you'll like it, old chap'.

Anyway, was Quinn Direct a profitable company or not?

Nody

pablo128 wrote: »

Realistic cars as opposed to what? Pretend cars? 'Oh you young pup, how dare you contemplate over a 1.2 engine. You'll drive a girls car and you'll like it, old chap'.

Anyway, was Quinn Direct a profitable company or not?

It was losing money hand over fist, that's about a billion euro in losses in three years alone below...

Quinn Insurance continued to post significant losses including €125 million in 2008 and €706 million in 2009

The administrators of the leading insurance firm, set up by the now heavily indebted Séan Quinn, said that of today’s announced losses €559m of this was operating losses, and €147m was due to write-downs of assets.

A further €160 million was lost in 2010.

So your definition of "affordable insurance" meant the insurance company lost a billion euro in three years; yea, that sounds like a business that's working out ok.

Quote 1 source
Quote 2 source

To Elland Back

pablo128 wrote: »

Anyway, was Quinn Direct a profitable company or not?

Only by not putting away enough of it's policyholder's premiums that would be required to pay claims

Aineoil

I'm a 50 year old female driver with a clean licence, not even a parking ticket. My husband, same age as me is a named driver on the policy (he also has a clean licence).

My insurance for full comprehensive has gone up by a considerable amount, according to me. I've never had an accident so the why the insurance company want more money is something I don't understand.

Atlantic Dawn

bigpink wrote: »

What difference does a job make?

Anyone in the motor trade seems to get hammered out of it as high risk due to driving other cars, also anyone who might be working long hours like bar staff, security etc.

Atlantic Dawn

Aineoil wrote: »

My insurance for full comprehensive has gone up by a considerable amount, according to me. I've never had an accident so the why the insurance company want more money is something I don't understand.

Big increase in personal injury claims where people are taking the pi$$ with injuries, some of these in the news recently where insurers investigated and the frauds were uncovered. Also floods this year will have plenty of cars wrote off, I'd say a good 500 plus are gone in the last month.

Nody

Aineoil wrote: »

I'm a 50 year old female driver with a clean licence, not even a parking ticket. My husband, same age as me is a named driver on the policy (he also has a clean licence).

My insurance for full comprehensive has gone up by a considerable amount, according to me. I've never had an accident so the why the insurance company want more money is something I don't understand.

Total company cost X (inc. paying out insurance to uninsured third parties, paying for Quinn's insurance scam etc.); insurance profit Y. If X larger than Y then increase Y.

The simple fact is the insurance companies are losing money and are moving the rates back to a sustainable level again (they are still to low to make a profit).

BorneTobyWilde

Try Alley Ants

P_Cash

2006 xtrail,

Was 337 last year, this year its 560

Third party only

36yrs old, no claim ever

Atlantic Dawn

P_Cash wrote: »

2006 xtrail,

Was 337 last year, this year its 560

Third party only

36yrs old, no claim ever

Out of interest how much extra for fully comp? I noticed myself when I had the full no claims built up the difference back then was less than €50 between the two so wasn't worth going for the third party.

puckmymuskie

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Try Alley Ants

my car is too old for them

P_Cash

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Out of interest how much extra for fully comp? I noticed myself when I had the full no claims built up the difference back then was less than €50 between the two so wasn't worth going for the third party.

About 750/800, so another 200/250

Atlantic Dawn

P_Cash wrote: »

About 750/800, so another 200/250

Big rise between the two, I'm not looking forward to my quote this year.

appledrop

I have a 2010 Ford Focus. Last year I paid €370. This year they are looking for €540. That's an increase of nearly 50%. For what. I have 10 years no claims on a full licence. They are some chancers. Why should I have to pay extra due to an increase in claims from people who are not insured? It's a joke. I don't buy that it's due also to the Quinn Insurance company going bust etc as that happened a few year ago so it shouldn't be having such an effect this year as we have already been paying this levy for a number of years.

The insurance companies and the guards also need to put a stop to the number of false insurance claims that people make.

Nody

appledrop wrote: »

I have a 2010 Ford Focus. Last year I paid €370. This year they are looking for €540. That's an increase of nearly 50%. For what. I have 10 years no claims on a full licence. They are some chancers. Why should I have to pay extra due to an increase in claims from people who are not insured? It's a joke. I don't buy that it's due also to the Quinn Insurance company going bust etc as that happened a few year ago so it shouldn't be having such an effect this year as we have already been paying this levy for a number of years.

The insurance companies and the guards also need to put a stop to the number of false insurance claims that people make.

The levy for Quinn will be paid until at least 2029 and it's still affecting because Quinn distorted the prices down that they are still normalizing from it.

TallGlass

Insurance is a complete and utter scam. For the most part unless you have a considerable claim you could never use it.

You could have a full NCB gone in one second over a 500€ claim in fact even if you don't claim 1c and report it they'll treat it as a claim, then your quote be up faster than you can say insurance.

TallGlass

Nody wrote: »

The levy for Quinn will be paid until at least 2029 and it's still affecting because Quinn distorted the prices down that they are still normalizing from it.

Still normalising from it? If I recall correctly Quinn was the only company in the wrong, AXA etc.. Are still in business and where previously giving the same quotes as Quinn I imagine alot of insurance companies done the same to stay in business. Now with Quinn out of the way, I think you mean to say 'they are still cashing in from it', normalizing from it wouldn't be the word I would use.

Kinda like the banking charges, the bank cartels brought the fees in together, not much you can do as a customer if they are all doing it.

I don't expect insurance for nothing but when you are getting quotes near 80% of an increase on last year and been told its the insurance market, market or not. Let's be honest, they are taking the piss.

Damien360

Nody wrote: »

Total company cost X (inc. paying out insurance to uninsured third parties, paying for Quinn's insurance scam etc.); insurance profit Y. If X larger than Y then increase Y.

The simple fact is the insurance companies are losing money and are moving the rates back to a sustainable level again (they are still to low to make a profit).

That is too broad a statement. From Irish times in August it varies greatly from company to company. It does not follow that they all rise at the same exorbitant rate.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well any company worth its salt will hire wiley accountants to siphon and hide away profit and declare a loss in order to get itself a more favourable tax rate (can't pay tax on a loss now, guv'ner) and also use this excuse to hike prices. The aim of the game is not to get the customer a good deal (HEAVENS above!), but to extract the maximum amount of money from the saps whilst giving the least possible amount in goods or services back.
So I say that the insurance companies books are about as anchored in reality as Dublin Bus's timetables. If their accounts announced the sky is blue, I would walk straight out the door to make sure it hasn't turned pink since. My boss once told me "never trust an accountant". Guess what he qualified as?

coolbeans

pablo128 wrote: »

Quinn Direct enter the market, bringing affordable insurance for all, including many young drivers who literally could not even get a quote from other insurers.

Quinn then get into financial bother. The State seize the opportunity to seize his profitable insurance company from him.

Something something public get hit with a charge, and Quinn Insurance is handed to Liberty Insurance. Who then leave the car insurance market.

Quinn and Liberty gone, and insurance goes sky high again.

Seems legit.

Totally clueless. You conveniently ignore the fact that insurance companies' reserves are easily as important as its profits, indeed more so. If Quinn's reserves were right it could have traded at a loss for years. They weren't, so it couldn't have met its obligations as an insurance company and HAD TO BE CLOSED DOWN.

The old refrain in recent years that "da gubbermint shut a profitable company" shows either disingenuousness or a complete lack of understanding re how the insurance industry works worldwide.

Feckin hate it when people comment without any understanding of what's actually going on. All you're doing is spreading ignorance.

Nody

TallGlass wrote: »

Still normalising from it? If I recall correctly Quinn was the only company in the wrong, AXA etc.. Are still in business and where previously giving the same quotes as Quinn I imagine alot of insurance companies done the same to stay in business. Now with Quinn out of the way, I think you mean to say 'they are still cashing in from it', normalizing from it wouldn't be the word I would use.

They were big enough they could take the losses short term as you ignored my post about the 1 billion loss in 3 years Quinn did at those rates that you consider reasonable; the other insurance companies were also making losses (and still are) but are getting closer to long term viable rates.

You want better rates? Lobby your local political about how claims are settled for personal injuries to be more in line with Europe rather than the extremely high cost Irish claims are paid out at (due to the Irish legislation and court system) and harsher penalties for fraud (today it's a chance for a 100k payout or if you somehow fail a slap on the wrist by the judge telling you not to do it again). There is after all a reason why the insurance companies trying to set up here with low rates consistently fail (see Setanta as the latest example, before that Quinn etc.).

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well any company worth its salt will hire wiley accountants to siphon and hide away profit and declare a loss in order to get itself a more favourable tax rate (can't pay tax on a loss now, guv'ner) and also use this excuse to hike prices. The aim of the game is not to get the customer a good deal (HEAVENS above!), but to extract the maximum amount of money from the saps whilst giving the least possible amount in goods or services back.
So I say that the insurance companies books are about as anchored in reality as Dublin Bus's timetables. If their accounts announced the sky is blue, I would walk straight out the door to make sure it hasn't turned pink since. My boss once told me "never trust an accountant". Guess what he qualified as?

And yet when these new low cost companies came in to "rock the world of the Irish motor insurance" to really "give it to the old profit hungry profiteers" they all ended up going belly up and bankrupt; is that also part of the scheme to pay no tax or could it actually be, oh I don't know an indication that the Irish insurance market actually is this expensive?

PolaroidPizza

The government refuses to tackle increasing legal costs despite being warned about them on several occasions by the troika. Increasing legal costs inevitably leads to higher insurance costs.......but unfortunately the legal lobby groups hold far too much sway with the political establishment

newacc2015

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well any company worth its salt will hire wiley accountants to siphon and hide away profit and declare a loss in order to get itself a more favourable tax rate (can't pay tax on a loss now, guv'ner) and also use this excuse to hike prices. The aim of the game is not to get the customer a good deal (HEAVENS above!), but to extract the maximum amount of money from the saps whilst giving the least possible amount in goods or services back.
So I say that the insurance companies books are about as anchored in reality as Dublin Bus's timetables. If their accounts announced the sky is blue, I would walk straight out the door to make sure it hasn't turned pink since. My boss once told me "never trust an accountant". Guess what he qualified as?

Insurance companies are regulated by the central bank and have to follow the rules of the authority. They cant make up a ton of expenses to reduce their tax bill like you think they can. Generally only companies such with strong IP can use tax loopholes like you are suggesting. Even then do they dont lose millions of euro.

Insurance companies are also generally PLCs, which means their account are viewable to the public. Here is FBDs. You wont find any shady accounting in it as, they are all actually loss making as their premiums are too low and premiums are too high

https://www.fbdgroup.com/media/FBDGroup/files/2014-Annual-Report-FBD-Holdings-plc.pdf

If Irish car insurance is super profitable as you think? Why havent anyone else entered the market? If there is all this money to be made like you suggest. Why arent all the American and British insurers opening new companies here?

masterboy123

I paid 900 in 2014 for my 06 car and 1200 in 2015.
I am worried if I get a new car, that is 2013 model, will the insurance go over 2000 a year?

Entonces

Premium rose from 420 last year to new quote of 800 this year! rang around and managed to get it down to 570 with an online insurance company.
Fbd wouldn't even quote me as they said my 02 car is too old.
Where can we complain about this? Can regulator do anything about it?

It makes me so angry sometimes. We get hit from all ways. Few extra quid coming in USC cut will be swiftly handed over to greedy insurance companies

Jesus.

P_Cash wrote: »

2006 xtrail,Was 337 last year, this year its 560Third party only

Could you drive other cars with that?

Atlantic Dawn

We will soon I would say have a flood cover levy added to each policy to cover those houses built in areas that should never have been.

carzony

I feel for most people with the insurace hikes but the under 25's will get bent over and lashed out of it as usual...

Atlantic Dawn

carzony wrote: »

I feel for most people with the insurace hikes but the under 25's will get bent over and lashed out of it as usual...

I suppose the only positive is they can't discriminate between males and females, has to be same for all. I don't know why car insurance can't follow health insurance where everyone pays the same.

carzony

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I suppose the only positive is they can't discriminate between males and females, has to be same for all. I don't know why car insurance can't follow health insurance where everyone pays the same.

Apparently under 25 drivers are in the most 'at risk' category and 'cause more accidents' and those statistics are from the insurance company's themselves. Those statistics have never really been questioned or proved by anyone and I personally don't believe them.

Young people have had to take 12 driving lessons for some time now. lets not forget cars they drive have also been much safer and yet young people are still paying huge insurance prices.. Bull**** if you ask me.

They should not be allowed charge people insurance based on their own statistics.

pablo128

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I suppose the only positive is they can't discriminate between males and females, has to be same for all. I don't know why car insurance can't follow health insurance where everyone pays the same.

Bizarrely, a Dutch lesbian is to blame for that!:pac:

pudzey101

2014- imported honda integra 190bhp - 472e
2015- VW passat 1.9 105bhp - 928

same NCB , no points.....


I dont understand

marno21

It's no wonder premiums are so high with the obscene amount of crashes, many down to stupidity and ignorance. Here in Cork on the N40 South Ring there is a good 500/600 crashes a year, many with multiple vehicles. It may be the busiest road in Cork but it's still just one road

Car99

pudzey101 wrote: »

2014- imported honda integra 190bhp - 472e
2015- VW passat 1.9 105bhp - 928

same NCB , no points.....


I dont understand

Probably a lot more passats crashed with claims against in recent years than integras therfore grouping the passant in a higher group.

Although officially they don't using grouping in ireland , try and insure any of the most common cars on our roads and they're definitely more expensive than a similarly powered less common car . Like compare insurance on a golf or corolla to a kia ceed , the ceed wii be cheaper.

TallGlass

Nody wrote: »

They were big enough they could take the losses short term as you ignored my post about the 1 billion loss in 3 years Quinn did at those rates that you consider reasonable; the other insurance companies were also making losses (and still are) but are getting closer to long term viable rates.

You want better rates? Lobby your local political about how claims are settled for personal injuries to be more in line with Europe rather than the extremely high cost Irish claims are paid out at (due to the Irish legislation and court system) and harsher penalties for fraud (today it's a chance for a 100k payout or if you somehow fail a slap on the wrist by the judge telling you not to do it again). There is after all a reason why the insurance companies trying to set up here with low rates consistently fail (see Setanta as the latest example, before that Quinn etc.).

I didn't ignore it! I just didn't see it :pac:

I agree with your point, but I think you fail to see my point that cheaper insurance suddenly became available once Quinn started getting business.

The only thing that will come out of higher insurance costs is more uninsured drivers.

I won't be lobbying anybody, what's the point? Unless the TD's are living under a rock they shouldn't need to be reactive they should start been active and not have to be told about problems just to do there job FFS. As for the justice system, I think there are bigger problems with it than just this issue.

TallGlass

carzony wrote: »

Apparently under 25 drivers are in the most 'at risk' category and 'cause more accidents' and those statistics are from the insurance company's themselves. Those statistics have never really been questioned or proved by anyone and I personally don't believe them.

Young people have had to take 12 driving lessons for some time now. lets not forget cars they drive have also been much safer and yet young people are still paying huge insurance prices.. Bull**** if you ask me.

They should not be allowed charge people insurance based on their own statistics.

I wonder if it is an at risk group or is it a case of this group making the noob mistake of claiming off your insurance for minor stuff. Is there a break down of these claims and there payouts?

Nody

TallGlass wrote: »

I didn't ignore it! I just didn't see it :pac:

I agree with your point, but I think you fail to see my point that cheaper insurance suddenly became available once Quinn started getting business.

By selling at a loss (and the other insurance companies started selling at a loss to defend their market share); no business can operate long term by selling at a loss so even Quinn if they somehow would have survived would have to raise the price to the current level. Hence the rates offered during Quinn era were not, and are not, sustainable or a reflection of the cost of operating as an insurance company in Ireland.

I won't be lobbying anybody, what's the point? Unless the TD's are living under a rock they shouldn't need to be reactive they should start been active and not have to be told about problems just to do there job FFS. As for the justice system, I think there are bigger problems with it than just this issue.

TD's are the prime example of the squeaky wheel gets the grease; if you don't complain about it they'll focus on the once that DO complain to them instead be it social housing or what ever. Why? Because to the TD it's seen as those people care enough for the result and if they can deliver they can lock in the vote.

Grayditch

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Anyone in the motor trade seems to get hammered out of it as high risk due to driving other cars, also anyone who might be working long hours like bar staff, security etc.

My quote went down a lot with FBD when I selected bar man. I'm not a bar man, I was just curious , but I'm not sure long hours that dont involve driving will hike up the price.

Skylinehead

Car99 wrote: »

Probably a lot more passats crashed with claims against in recent years than integras therfore grouping the passant in a higher group.

Only because there's far more Passats on the road. I imagine the insurance companies can see that, and there's no way a Passat is in a higher group than a bloody Honda Integra