Returning an item

First Up

After the Christmas present buying chaos, I found I had two copies of a book - both bought in the same shop. I went back today with one copy and the receipt but was told that as the item is now on sale (50% markdown) I would only get a refund or credit of €7.50 instead of the €15 I paid on Thursday last.

There was a queue behind me and I wasn't getting into a row for €7.50 so I just gave them the book with my compliments and walked out.

They have lost me as a customer for this piece of disastrous customer relations but I was wondering after if this is even legal on their part?

drunkmonkey

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

L1011

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

If they have a posted returns policy for unwanted items it will inevitably cover this scenario also.

First Up

L1011 wrote:

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

Fair enough, although telling customers to get stuffed is hardly a policy designed to bring them back.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

I told them to shove it so they got to keep the whole €15 - which they can offset against the future business I'll be taking elsewhere.

drunkmonkey

First Up wrote: »

I told them to shove it so they got to keep the whole €15 - which they can offset against the future business I'll be taking elsewhere.

Same rule apply in any shop your acting a bit childish by boycotting the shop but anyone in retail is well used to this kind of behaviour, would have made more sense to swap it for a book that's now half price as well, it's the same thing.
Go back and get your book exchanged, talk to the manger and tell them you were disgruntled, they'll understand and appreciate your honesty.

davo10

To be fair to book shops, I would imagine it is difficult to take back an unwanted book and give the purchaser their money back/credit note. What's to say that the customer hadn't read the book in the couple of days since they bought it? It think you spat the dummy op, if you want your money, go back and apologise, maybe swop it for another book. Remember, this falls into the"change of mind" category and there is therefore absolutely no obligation on them to do anything for you, they were being quite good by offering you anything.

Colser

Id have expected a refund also OP? Did it say anything on the receipt about their refund policy?

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

They have lost me as a customer for this piece of disastrous customer relations but I was wondering after if this is even legal on their part?

This is standard policy. Retailers are under no obligation to accept items bought onsite (as opposed to online, which is different) for return unless they are in some way defective or the item was mis-sold by them.

You can, of course, choose to take your business elsewhere, but be aware that many retailers will not take such returns at all. In my own experience, being refunded the current price rather than the purchase price has always been standard operating procedure. As someone else pointed out, an exchange might also have been possible, but that's obviously not going to happen now.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

Same rule apply in any shop your acting a bit childish by boycotting the shop but anyone in retail is well used to this kind of behaviour, would have made more sense to swap it for a book that's now half price as well, it's the same thing. Go back and get your book exchanged, talk to the manger and tell them you were disgruntled, they'll understand and appreciate your honesty.

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

First Up

Colser wrote:

Id have expected a refund also OP? Did it say anything on the receipt about their refund policy?

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

They can sell your book again as you gave it to them. I really don't see any benefit for you in your action, you are one customer among perhaps thousands or even tens of thousands each year.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

Legally they didn't have to give you anything, 50% is better than 0%.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

How are you defining "properly", when this is what all shops do?

Out of interest, do you (or does anyone) know of any shop where a customer can return non-faulty goods after they've been reduced and obtain the original purchase price?

I've never experienced this, and if there is such a place, I would be interested to shop there.

First Up

davo10 wrote:

They can sell your book again as you gave it to them. I really don't see any benefit for you in your action, you are one customer among perhaps thousands or even tens of thousands each year.

My action was not about getting benefit. I chose not to do business with a shop that placed a higher value on €7.50 than on having a satisfied customer.
Their choice - my choice.

drunkmonkey

First Up wrote: »

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that.
Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

Colser

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

I would have thought that the small print would be the issue tbh.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

My action was not about getting benefit. I chose not to do business with a shop that placed a higher value on €7.50 than on having a satisfied customer.
Their choice - my choice.

Policies are in place for a reason and apply across the board. Do you think you're the only person who wanted to return a marked-down item that day, that month, or that year?

It's not a case of one €7.50 transaction. If they do it for you, they'll have to do it for everyone, and it will work out far more costly than the loss of a single customer, as most customers understand that this is standard policy and are more than prepared to accept it.

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

Out of interest, do you (or does anyone) know of any shop where a customer can return non-faulty goods after they've been reduced and obtain the original purchase price?

If an item can be returned, the refund should be for the amount paid. Mark downs are temporary selling ploys and prices go back up. In real terms the item was worth the same today as last Thursday.

mickmackmcgoo

DivingDuck wrote:

I've never experienced this, and if there is such a place, I would be interested to shop there.

Tesco will give you full purchase price as a refund. If you bought a product for 20 euro a week ago and it was 10 today and you wanted to return it you would get the full 20 back -they operate a 28 return policy . If it's faulty or you change your mind,once it's in perfect condition -in box etc they will give you a full refund not the new discounted price

Duckjob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

L011 wrote:

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

Not necessarily correct.

The seller would not be obligated to take the item back under the Sale of Goods Act since what they sold is not defective.

However, if the seller has a published returns policy then they would be bound by this policy since its terms could reasonably be considered in law to form part of the contract of the sale. ie. the terms of the return policy may have helped induce the buyer to enter the transaction.

Apart from the fact that it's generally not considered good business to tell your customers to get stuffed :pac:

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

If an item can be returned, the refund should be for the amount paid. Mark downs are temporary selling ploys and prices go back up. In real terms the item was worth the same today as last Thursday.

That's not an example. That's your opinion.

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Tesco will give you full purchase price as a refund. If you bought a product for 20 euro a week ago and it was 10 today and you wanted to return it you would get the full 20 back -they operate a 28 return policy . If it's faulty or you change your mind,once it's in perfect condition -in box etc they will give you a full refund not the new discounted price

That is an example, and I am incredibly surprised to hear it!

jhegarty

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

You legal exactly was exactly €0

They did you a favor by offering the €7.50

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

It's not a case of one €7.50 transaction. If they do it for you, they'll have to do it for everyone, and it will work out far more costly than the loss of a single customer, as most customers understand that this is standard policy and are more than prepared to accept it.

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

L1011

Duckjob wrote: »

Not necessarily correct.

The seller would not be obligated to take the item back under the Sale of Goods Act since what they sold is not defective.

However, if the seller has a published returns policy then they would be bound by this policy since its terms could reasonably be considered in law to form part of the contract of the sale. ie. the terms of the return policy may have helped induce the buyer to enter the transaction.

Apart from the fact that it's generally not considered good business to tell your customers to get stuffed :pac:

I'd be willing to lay money that if they have a published returns policy they were following it to the letter.

Retail staff have customers throw strops all the time in front of them - they rarely carry through their "never shopping here again!" threat though.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that. Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

drunkmonkey wrote:

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that. Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

No rage; no strop was thrown and no rudeness. I simply said "then you can keep it", put the book on the counter and left.

First Up

jhegarty wrote:

You legal exactly was exactly €0

As they say, there are people (and shops) that know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

That's not an example. That's your opinion.

I didn't say it was an example. It is just a fact. A retail price quoted is at the discretion of a retailer and is designed to maximise return - a combination of margin and turnover. Discounts are temporary.

If a shop has a refunds policy, it should honour it by giving the customer back what they paid.

At least they should do it if they want to keep the customer.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

The shop expected to sell x units at €15 before reducing the item to €7.50.
If you return your item and get back your €15, they've sold x-1 units @ €15, and will have to re-sell the item for €7.50, so they're down €7.50 on their projected turnover. If one person does that, no big deal. If fifty people do that, they have a problem.

A shop that allows people to return reduced items for full price seems likely to lead to a slew of people returning their item, getting back the pre-sale price, then re-buying it in the sale at a lower price, guaranteeing the problem I mentioned in the previous paragraph on a large scale.

That's not what you were trying to do, which I completely understand. But how is the shop assistant to know you weren't one of those people?

...And if you think there aren't people out there who would do this, consider the physical fights which have occurred over the mark-down food items in Tesco. There are absolutely people who would take massive advantage of a system like this.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

Full amount is refunded then customer buys 2 books at 50% of normal cost. Shop has lost one book on the transaction. That costs.

mickmackmcgoo

DivingDuck wrote:

...And if you think there aren't people out there who would do this, consider the physical fights which have occurred over the mark-down food items in Tesco. There are absolutely people who would take massive advantage of a system like this.

Spot on there. I worked in Tesco electrical department and people often returned an item which had since been marked down ,they got a refund and simply bought the item again at the reduced price and were upfront about it as they were aware of the return policy

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

If a shop has a refunds policy, it should honour it by giving the customer back what they paid.

As others have pointed out, you don't seem to know what their refund policy is, and seemed uninterested in finding out.

However, I'm assuming their staff do know it, and that what you were told is their policy. They have the right to set it as they see fit, and add whatever conditions and caveats they like, especially when it is generally in line with the policies of other retailers.

The reason I asked you for an example of a different policy was because I am curious to know if all your previous experience has been contrary to this one. Mine certainly hasn't been.

Duckjob

L1011 wrote: »

I'd be willing to lay money that if they have a published returns policy they were following it to the letter.

Retail staff have customers throw strops all the time in front of them - they rarely carry through their "never shopping here again!" threat though.

You may be right, but then again you may be surprised at how shaky some retailers can be regarding the selling laws that affect their business.

For example, there are retailers who still believe that they can put up a "No returns, no refunds" sign on sale items and then refuse to deal with defective items sold from this area. Not only are buyers rights under the Act immutable regardless of any such signs, but the retailer can actually be fined for engaging in this sort of misleading carry-on.

Oryx

First Up wrote: »

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

You could return the book. Get €15 back. Re-buy the book for €7.50. You win. They lose. Why would they do that? Cos it wouldn't be just you. Loads would try this and they would reduce the profit they made at Christmas, which is bad business. Sales are there to reduce existing stock and create finance for fresh stock and keep the wheels turning.

eeguy

First Up wrote: »

If an item can be returned, the refund should be for the amount paid. Mark downs are temporary selling ploys and prices go back up. In real terms the item was worth the same today as last Thursday.

This is generally the case.

This is why most places won't refund ANY items during a sale, unless they're legally obliged to.

However when you have shop that constantly puts certain items on sale you're in a grey area.

IMO I think they're right to offer only the sale price. You could have waited until the book returned to its presale price and got a refund then.

You may be out of their refund period but that's just bad luck and maybe a chat with the manager could fix it.

At the end of the day it's only 15 quid, I would have given the book to a charity shop.

Duckjob

As regards the OPs case, its generally helpful to go in -
1) knowing your correct rights
2) starting with the right attitude (ie. assuming the people you are talking to want to help you)

When faced with a customer with the right attitude, most retailers are helpful. It generally makes good business sense for the retailer to oblige their customers in these situations, as in the goodwill gained is usually more valuable than the € value lost.

Tigger

DivingDuck wrote: »

How are you defining "properly", when this is what all shops do?

Out of interest, do you (or does anyone) know of any shop where a customer can return non-faulty goods after they've been reduced and obtain the original purchase price?

I've never experienced this, and if there is such a place, I would be interested to shop there.

Tesco, lidil or aldi
or my shop but i'm in a small county town so customer service is very important to me

eeguy

Tigger wrote: »

Tesco, lidil or aldi
or my shop but i'm in a small county town so customer service is very important to me

Can't speak for your shop but these are different beasts to other retailers.
A customer can easily spend thousands a year in these shops so they're not going to argue over a few quid.

Tigger

Duckjob wrote: »

As regards the OPs case, its generally helpful to go in -
1) knowing your correct rights
2) starting with the right attitude (ie. assuming the people you are talking to want to help you)

When faced with a customer with the right attitude, most retailers are helpful. It generally makes good business sense for the retailer to oblige their customers in these situations, as in the goodwill gained is usually more valuable than the € value lost.

agree; but we make a call as to whether you will be happy that we were nice to you or think that you are entitled and not feel treated well no matter what

Tigger

eeguy wrote: »

Can't speak for your shop but these are different beasts to other retailers.
A customer can easily spend thousands a year in these shops so they're not going to argue over a few quid.

i'm only answering the question

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

As others have pointed out, you don't seem to know what their refund policy is, and seemed uninterested in finding out.

They told me the refund policy. The question was if it was printed on the sales slip.

First Up

davo10 wrote:

Full amount is refunded then customer buys 2 books at 50% of normal cost. Shop has lost one book on the transaction. That costs.

A refund is a refund. Discounting is the shop's decision.
Losing customers costs too.

L1011

First Up wrote: »

They told me the refund policy. The question was if it was printed on the sales slip.

A refund policy does not need to be printed on receipts to be in place.

Its pretty clear they followed their refund policy, and the law; and you still aren't happy. I'm sure they'll dreadfully miss your 15 quid of business.

First Up

L1011 wrote:

A refund policy does not need to be printed on receipts to be in place.

No, and I'm not the one who brought the receipt into it.

L1011 wrote:

Its pretty clear they followed their refund policy, and the law; and you still aren't happy. I'm sure they'll dreadfully miss your 15 quid of business.

They got my €15 - and their book back. Its my future business they will miss.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

No, and I'm not the one who brought the receipt into it.



They got my €15 - and their book back. Its my future business they will miss.

What you have to ask yourself, will they miss you? They may or may not but you are now out of pocket for the full amount you paid. You have cut off your nose to spite your face. Why didn't you just exchange it for another book? You would have got another read and not felt out of pocket.

First Up

davo10 wrote:

What you have to ask yourself, will they miss you? They may or may not but you are now out of pocket for the full amount you paid. You have cut off your nose to spite your face. Why didn't you just exchange it for another book? You would have got another read and not felt out of pocket.

As I said before, I had no interest in doing business with a shop with that attitude. The €15 (or €7.50) was neither here nor there.

I have plenty to read; I went to another bookshop and spent considerably more than €15.

L1011

First Up wrote: »

They got my €15 - and their book back. Its my future business they will miss.

There's three chain bookstores in the country (Eason, Waterstones/Hodges Figgis, Dubray) and a dwindling number of independents. You're rather limiting yourself for zero benefit to you.

Shop had return policy, shop obeyed return policy. You had a strop - dumping the book and posting repeatedly on here shows said strop even if you deny it. Shop is not the one being unreasonable here.

First Up

L1011 wrote:

There's three chain bookstores in the country (Eason, Waterstones/Hodges Figgis, Dubray) and a dwindling number of independents. You're rather limiting yourself for zero benefit to you.

I'll cope.

ben.schlomo

DivingDuck wrote: »

That's not an example. That's your opinion.



That is an example, and I am incredibly surprised to hear it!

Many retailers have obvious return policies where the original price paid is refunded e.g M&S, Topshop, Schuh etc etc etc. In this case if no returns policy applies then the OP had no option to accept or act the wally.

First Up

L1011 wrote:

You had a strop - dumping the book and posting repeatedly on here shows said strop even if you deny it. Shop is not the one being unreasonable here.

Depends what you call a strop. No voices were raised - the whole encounter took under a minute.

My query related to the the shop arbitrarily reducing the value of my purchase by half because they had decided to put the item on sale.

Now that you have all so kindly explained why they were perfectly within their rights, I will exercise my right to give my business to where it is appreciated.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

Depends what you call a strop. No voices were raised - the whole encounter took under a minute.

My query related to the the shop arbitrarily reducing the value of my purchase by half because they had decided to put the item on sale.

Now that you have all so kindly explained why they were perfectly within their rights, I will exercise my right to give my business to where it is appreciated.

With no book and no refund. Does this really make sense to you? Also, for future reference, a lot of shops offer nothing at all for change of mind returns, if you boycot those shops you are severely limiting your shopping pool.