Journalism in Ireland - is it really that difficult to break into?

Lollipop95

I've read numerous times that it is notoriously difficult to break into journalism, especially in Ireland. Is this really true and if so, why? I've also read that sometimes with journalism in Ireland it's not what you know, it's who. Surely a talent for the profession would shine through, regardless of where you're from or who you are?

I've often wondered why most of the RTE newsreaders and reporters are from wealthy parts of Dublin? I think I read some of them are from a wealthy part of Galway city, but I may he wrong. Is it true that most journalists are from fairly wealthy backgrounds from what would be considered posh areas? I'm sure it's just a coincidence that most of RTE's (and TV3) reporters are from these backgrounds, they probably were just the best fit for the job.

Also a question - I'm guessing your accent would definitely have a bearing on whether you'd be hired as a newsreader? Ive only ever heard the newsreaders speak in what I would describe as "posh" accents. Mind you, they're reading the news so I suppose it calls for it!

So my main question is - is it really that difficult to break into journalism in Ireland, be it print or broadcast, and does nepotism really exist in this country when it comes to journalism? I'm curious as I saw the word 'nepotism' thrown around a lot on these boards regarding journalism in Ireland, so I wanted to get peoples opinions on the above. Personally I think people are hired on talent, or should be anyways

Azalea

It's difficult for a very straightforward reason: the demand for jobs vastly outnumbers the jobs.

And contacts do matter - even if it seems unethical.

hairyslug

Look at the independent, not a chance any of the journalists got there due to their talent.

Kovu

I studied journalism in college, two of my peers now work at a red top in Dublin. A few are now in England and further afield due to lack of available positions here, ease of accessing media online means that fewer positions are filled after journalists leave/retire.
It definitely helps to have somebody in the business that you can work towards but it's also a job where you need to earn respect and credibility before you get offers at RTE & TV3. So you can expect plenty of unpaid articles and research work behind the scenes before you hit any form of limelight.

kneemos

Forget RTE if you're talented.

Turtyturd

Post here long enough and you'll see your thoughts in a paper, or as an article on The Journal.

You won't get the credit for it though.

stimpson

hairyslug wrote: »

Look at the independent, not a chance any of the journalists got there due to their talent.

I'd say a frontal lobotomy and the ability to run a spell checker are the main pre requisites for the indo.

Neil Issagum

Most journalists these days just sit behind a computer screen all day rehashing stories from other news sites. You would think that there's surely a gap in the market here for old style investigative journalism, take the huge interest recently in the undercover sting with the corrupt councillors for example

kneemos

Neil Issagum wrote: »

Most journalists these days just sit behind a computer screen all day rehashing stories from other news sites. You would think that there's surely a gap in the market here for old style investigative journalism, take the huge interest recently in the undercover sting with the corrupt councillors for example

The only ones with the money for investigative journalism.

Neil Issagum

kneemos wrote: »

Neil Issagum wrote: »

Most journalists these days just sit behind a computer screen all day rehashing stories from other news sites. You would think that there's surely a gap in the market here for old style investigative journalism, take the huge interest recently in the undercover sting with the corrupt councillors for example

The only ones with the money for investigative journalism.

RTE?

Junkyard Tom

Have lots of right-wing, elite-fawning, views coupled with silence on matters that challenge orthodoxy and that will help with a career in 'journalism'.

"The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread [...] We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

John Swinton: New York Times.

kneemos

Neil Issagum wrote: »

RTE?

Uh huh.

The Randy Riverbeast

You have 2 choices. You can suffer severe head trauma and write celebrity news or you can find a market, a group of people who need a source of information to make them feel right. You just have to make up stories or mistranslate stories in foreign languages.

SEPT 23 1989

the truth is a very precious thing

cant be bought and sold

MilesMorales1

Yeah. I did a journalism course in college (2 year PLC) , and after that, if you wanted a proper degree or whatever you needed another 2 years of college. Even after that, out of 20 people that finished the course with me, one of them has a job in journalism, unpaid intern, the rest are either looking for work, blog work/social network stuff, or not related to journalism at all. **** it is.

Zimmey

I don't find that newsreaders have posh accents necessarily, they just have good diction.

Lollipop95

Lollipop95 wrote: »

Journalism in Ireland - is it really that difficult to break into?

Not at all. There are three possible ways into this noble profession in Ireland (i.e. Independent Newspapers). First, you just have to have the surname Fanning, Harris or have slept with one of them/all of them together and you're hired. It's a very fair process: nobody with the Fanning or Harris surname is discriminated against.

Indeed, if you happen to have solid Sticky roots and have been a very close colleague of a certain Eoghan Harris you can get most of your family into it (Brendan O'Connor might be able to shed some light on that one).

A third way into that esteemed newspaper is to be a solid member of the Anglo-Irish unionist class, so solid that your Daddy sent you from the barbarous hills of Wicklow to Mother England to get educated so that you'd never speak like those barbarous popish natives. Realising that you're just a third-rate chump over in Mother England but if you came back to Ireland you could feel superior over the natives, you arrive back and preach to them in your newly-acquired Home Counties accent about how backward they are, and spend your life writing obsequious articles telling everybody how great a businessman the owner of the Sunday Independent is, and that everybody should, for instance, sell Eircom shares (so that your great businessman can buy them cheaper, but you don't reveal this agenda in your articles, of course), and buy them once he's bought them so that he can sell them dearer. You can then, in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008, praise to the high heavens financial institutions like Anglo-Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide, and their "fantastic" leaders Seán Fitzpatrick and Fingers Fingleton.
Then, when the shít hits the fan you can reinvent yourself as a fearless campaigner who heroically opposed the very same shysters you were in reality praising from the rooftops for years, and get all Independent rags behind you as you run (successfully) for Dáil Éireann, studiously ensuring all reminders of your writings are censored from publication. While you're at it, you can get your son-in-law Nick Webb a senior job in The Sunday Independent in between being best man for your great friend Eamon Dunphy and pulling strings for as many family members as possible - all on the way to becoming a hero of ethics and opponent of nepotism in Dáil Éireann. Yes, take a bow, Shane Ross.

Journalists, the intellectual prostitutes of our age, without the intellect of course.

Sh1tbag OToole

Neil Issagum wrote: »

Most journalists these days just sit behind a computer screen all day rehashing stories from other news sites. You would think that there's surely a gap in the market here for old style investigative journalism, take the huge interest recently in the undercover sting with the corrupt councillors for example

Its always amusing to see "... homes without power" articles during or after a storm. Usually they'd be several paragraphs long and have a stock or archive photo of stormy weather but contains very little actual information. I reckon the only sources used for one of those articles are a tweet from ESB and half a sentence from met.ie

KomradeBishop

You just need massive massive amounts of readily available money, to defend against the lawsuits that will happen, when you undertake real investigative journalism.

Unfortunately, all of the people with that much money, who are also interested in funding journalism, want some level of control over what kind of journalism is allowed (i.e. want to restrict journalistic independence and investigative journalism).

So yea, you either need a lot of money, or a strong acceptance of the idea that your life may be fúcked up in any number of ways, and you could go to prison, once your journalism is hitting the right/most-important targets.


Still though, I reckon someone with the investigative/muckraking skills of e.g. Mark Ames, with proper backing financially/legally, would find no end of worthwhile investigative targets in this country - the poor quality of journalism and lack of public interest in that, seems to be really abysmal for a western nation.

Your best bet is probably to try and work with a foreign journalism outlet, reporting on Ireland - to get some distance from our ridiculous libel laws.

PARlance

Extremely hard to break into and then fairly impossible to get half decent pay when you do. Added to that, you're likely to be stuck in an area where you've little interest.

kneemos

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You just need massive massive amounts of readily available money, to defend against the lawsuits that will happen, when you undertake real investigative journalism.

Unfortunately, all of the people with that much money, who are also interested in funding journalism, want some level of control over what kind of journalism is allowed (i.e. want to restrict journalistic independence and investigative journalism).

So yea, you either need a lot of money, or a strong acceptance of the idea that your life may be fúcked up in any number of ways, and you could go to prison, once your journalism is hitting the right/most-important targets.


Still though, I reckon someone with the investigative/muckraking skills of e.g. Mark Ames, with proper backing financially/legally, would find no end of worthwhile investigative targets in this country - the poor quality of journalism and lack of public interest in that, seems to be really abysmal for a western nation.

Your best bet is probably to try and work with a foreign journalism outlet, reporting on Ireland - to get some distance from our ridiculous libel laws.

No foreign outfit is going to invest money in Irish investigative journalism,the payback isn't there.
If it's something big like the marriage referendum they might send a minor reporter,but otherwise it's not newsworthy.

weadick

I knew someone who worked for donkeys years in the office of one of the most popular daily newspapers in the country. I remember him telling me how some younger members of staff there were applying for a Tesco that was opening nearby because the wages and conditions being offered by Tesco were actually far superior to what they had working for the newspaper.

What made it worse was the fact that many of these young hacks would have had to spend thousands of euro not to mention waste years of their life on Arts and Journalism degrees in 'prestigious' universities, whereas he started out straight from school aged 17 and eventually. worked his way into steady employment. He retired a couple of years ago just before they had a chance to lay him off.

KomradeBishop

kneemos wrote: »

No foreign outfit is going to invest money in Irish investigative journalism,the payback isn't there.
If it's something big like the marriage referendum they might send a minor reporter,but otherwise it's not newsworthy.

There's not much money in any kind of non-garbage journalism anymore - journalism funding is largely broken - so true investigative journalism, local or elsewhere, is only a shadow of what it should be.

There are some outlets that may be interested though - Ireland is an international hub for tax evasion for example, and there's a lot of good journalism to be done tracing the money flowing through our 'offshore' financial center, and detailing how that ties into politics locally.

There just aren't many people interested in funding it - seeing as most of the people with the money to do that, are quite certainly benefiting from above system.

Ciderswigger

Studied media and English for 4 years. Produced and co presented a weekly 30 min radio show for a year, used many types of software, created a few 5 minute audio documentaries and produced a 20 min documentary film that was nominated for 2 awards. Graduated Sept 2014, upped my game re: improving my demo for interviews and even got a diploma in radio production just so it was something extra for the cv.

All jobs I have applied for have either
a) Had an unprecedented amount of applications
b) Say I haven't enough experience
c) Want me to work for 6 months for free In Dublin.

Halloween Jack

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There's not much money in any kind of non-garbage journalism anymore - journalism funding is largely broken - so true investigative journalism, local or elsewhere, is only a shadow of what it should be.

There are some outlets that may be interested though - Ireland is an international hub for tax evasion for example, and there's a lot of good journalism to be done tracing the money flowing through our 'offshore' financial center, and detailing how that ties into politics locally.

There just aren't many people interested in funding it - seeing as most of the people with the money to do that, are quite certainly benefiting from above system.

Crowd fund it if you think the appetite is there, I personally make a small contribution to a couple of such enterprises, not Irish. Both of them raised enough money to keep generating content.

kneemos

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There's not much money in any kind of non-garbage journalism anymore - journalism funding is largely broken - so true investigative journalism, local or elsewhere, is only a shadow of what it should be.

There are some outlets that may be interested though - Ireland is an international hub for tax evasion for example, and there's a lot of good journalism to be done tracing the money flowing through our 'offshore' financial center, and detailing how that ties into politics locally.

There just aren't many people interested in funding it - seeing as most of the people with the money to do that, are quite certainly benefiting from above system.

Granted,but anybody investigating tax evasion are doing so in relation to their own country.
The only upcoming noteworthy international item of interest is a possible abortion referendum,even that has little or no significance abroad.

Canis Lupus

Turtyturd wrote: »

Post here long enough and you'll see your thoughts in a paper, or as an article on The Journal.

You won't get the credit for it though.

Anything funny and it'll show up in Waterford Whispers.

Azalea

PARlance wrote: »

Extremely hard to break into and then fairly impossible to get half decent pay when you do. Added to that, you're likely to be stuck in an area where you've little interest.

Plus the work people get is usually unstable freelance. Staff jobs are almost unheard of.

The_Valeyard

Turtyturd wrote: »

Post here long enough and you'll see your thoughts in a paper, or as an article on The Journal.

You won't get the credit for it though.

Completely uncalled for.

Out thoughts are fair better than the sh*te you see in The Journal.

Zimmey

Ciderswigger wrote: »

Studied media and English for 4 years. Produced and co presented a weekly 30 min radio show for a year, used many types of software, created a few 5 minute audio documentaries and produced a 20 min documentary film that was nominated for 2 awards. Graduated Sept 2014, upped my game re: improving my demo for interviews and even got a diploma in radio production just so it was something extra for the cv.

All jobs I have applied for have either
a) Had an unprecedented amount of applications
b) Say I haven't enough experience
c) Want me to work for 6 months for free In Dublin.

Try to crack into digital marketing. I hear traditional journalism training is prized in that profession.

B.A._Baracus

I think journalists, just like solicitors, are ghouls. Obviously I can't tarnish everyone with the same brush but in my opinion, the vast majority are indeed ghouls.

Kovu

Mr.S wrote: »

To be fair, a 2 year long PLC in journalism wouldn't get you that far!

The one (PLC course) in Ballyfermot allows you to progress into second year in DIT, which is a Lvl 8 Honours degree if you finish it out.

Zimmey

Childhood friend of mine whose father was a school caretaker and mother was a sometime school secretary (both alcoholics) did very well as a journalist in Ireland and is now a subeditor at a respected broadsheet in the UK. I know subediting isn't journalist but her position would be still be a sought after one. She's a very self-assured, determined individual, always was. And she'd be talented too in fairness.

DanielODonnell

Journalists can't be taken seriously as most of them can't even get the names of countries right, it is all America this and Britain that with a bit of Ulster thrown in at the side.
All journalists are anti SNP and Sinn Fein.

Many of them use wikipedia for their research as I noticed when one made a mistake that the exact same mistake was present on wikipedia

Halloween Jack

DanielODonnell wrote: »

Journalists can't be taken seriously as most of them can't even get the names of countries right, it is all America this and Britain that with a bit of Ulster thrown in at the side.
All journalists are anti SNP and Sinn Fein

I assume you're a journalist then, seeing as you've got the names of both the countries you mentioned wrong...

DanielODonnell

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I assume you're a journalist then, seeing as you've got the names of both the countries you mentioned wrong...

I do not understand your comment, I used the names America, etc to show how the journalists get it wrong.

pickarooney

Neil Issagum wrote: »

RTE?

I love your user name

yabbav

It is very hard to break into especially if you are good and ethical

B.A._Baracus

Zimmey wrote: »

Try to crack into digital marketing. I hear traditional journalism training is prized in that profession.

I am a web designer and apart of my recent education was learning about digital marketing. Boy, talk about one hard industry to get into? it's nothing but internships offered out there.

But with that being said digital marketing is generally a total con. I must state that I am not coming off as an expert, because I am not, But it's just the amount of people i've met who've claimed to know it but in reality know nothing is shocking. It's one of those 'buzz words skills' a lot of people lie about.

For those who don't exactly know what digital marketing is? it's pretty much this:
- Marketing is marketing. You are meant to have core-marketing skills. Strip away the online aspect and you should understand marketing in the real world.
- The digital aspect comes from knowing how to advertise online and the processes and formats to do so.
- For one example.... Google AdWords because we've all seen them. It's when we do a google search and are presented with ads at the top and right hand side of our search query. A person who knows digital marketing should will know that you have a range of options such as what time your advert will display, the what search terms, to how much you are willing to pay. Alot of options. Too much to go into detail.


Wanna know the problem? Most people lie :pac: So many people pretend to know it but know nothing about the three points listed above :pac:

beks101

Former Irish TV producer here.

Nope, it's not. I wouldn't advise anyone to get into Journalism if they're interested in a steady, stable job with a straight forward career ladder and decent take-home pay. It is emotionally, mentally and financially taxing and in Ireland, doused with ridiculous competition and hilarious nepotism.

However. If you're willing to work for free, sacrifice your social life and any spare time you have for an indefinite period of time and start from the bottom up - including making coffees and running errands and printing off scripts and working Christmas day and New Years Day and the night shift and 18 hour days til the cows come home - all while smiling at the right people and feeling privileged to be there - then you'll eventually earn your place at the bottom rung of the pecking order.

Where you'll work for Supermacs money for a few years and struggle to pay bills and lose friends and miss out on relationships because you're so obsessed with work while you slowly wait for your next opportunity. It's intoxicating like that. Once you get a taste of it, it's very hard to leave.

I've worked all around the world for international news networks, and most successful journalists I know resent how much they've sacrificed to get to where they are, but will never, ever leave, because Stockholm Syndrome has set in and nothing else they could do would come close to the frenzied, panicked, wild excited energy of a newsroom.

My advise to any budding journalist would be to get your degree, intern at a reputable and widely recognised media org and get the hell out of dodge. Move to London or NY or Canada. The opportunities are vast abroad, and the roles are far more diverse. Become prolific with all the production tools, follow social media relentlessly and work for free or for tuppence for a pre-determined period of time. Then, put a sturdy, inflexible price on yourself and don't settle for any less.

And fcuk the naysayers. My career guidance teacher laughed when I told her I wanted to be a journalist and my mother had a meltdown. I've had front row seats and birds eye views of some of the most incredible, life-altering moments of history over the last decade because I didn't listen to them. I've also slept about 50% less than most of my friends and had panic attacks over stories and taken work home with me every day of my life since I graduated.

But I digress. Yeah Ireland's a tough market. Small and not very diverse with not as many roles and a bit of an Old Boy's Club, especially the tabs and the likes of RTE. But it's doable. With a lot of balls.

Azalea

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I am a web designer and apart of my recent education was learning about digital marketing. Boy, talk about one hard industry to get into? it's nothing but internships offered out there.

But with that being said digital marketing is generally a total con. I must state that I am not coming off as an expert, because I am not, But it's just the amount of people i've met who've claimed to know it but in reality know nothing is shocking. It's one of those 'buzz words skills' a lot of people lie about.

For those who don't exactly know what digital marketing is? it's pretty much this:
- Marketing is marketing. You are meant to have core-marketing skills. Strip away the online aspect and you should understand marketing in the real world.
- The digital aspect comes from knowing how to advertise online and the processes and formats to do so.
- For one example.... Google AdWords because we've all seen them. It's when we do a google search and are presented with ads at the top and right hand side of our search query. A person who knows digital marketing should will know that you have a range of options such as what time your advert will display, the what search terms, to how much you are willing to pay. Alot of options. Too much to go into detail.


Wanna know the problem? Most people lie :pac: So many people pretend to know it but know nothing about the three points listed above :pac:

My experience of it is that it's quite different to traditional marketing - it's more creative and interactive; the customer has more of a say. Unlike traditional marketing which is just messages being thrown at people.

I guess it depends on where the person works too though.

TerrorFirmer

The money is crap and it's hard to get stable, reliable work.

I have to say from experience, I hear a lot of people who moan about not being able to find jobs in the field - but they're **** journalists. Knowing the right people certainly helps, but only if you're a good journalist to begin with.

Also, people accuse many journalists and publications of being lazy, but the vast majority of the time the reason behind a perceived lack of investigation/total coverage is budgetary.

Grand for RTE as the state broadcaster but it's not feasible for the majority of media to undertake serious investigative journalism, for example.

yabbav

FAS course seems to be the way. Most of Irelands journalists seem to have taken that route.