Inappropriate work present help??

LegacyUser

Hi,
Dont know if this is the right forum but I could really use some help. Im 19 and just had work xmas party. I work for a small retail place and we did secret santa (about 14 of us altogether). The theme was to be funny and needless to say as the workplace chatterbox and the youngest there I was expecting a funny present! I put effort into my secret santas present to make it humerous but useful. Anyway, here's the problem.

My boss ended up getting me. He has a rep for being a bit of a sl*eze but being the youngest I didnt think it'd be anything too bad-maybe a tape recorder or something! He insisted on being first to give his present. I opened it and saw a lovely pair of pj's-how thoughtful! He insisted that I hold them up and thats when I knew there was something fishy. Anyway, a red and very seductive lingerie set fell out of them. Yes, my boss bought me lingerie. I tried to laugh it off all the while in my head thinking how inappropriate it was..he made me hold them up for a pic and everyone around us was laughing but again, i laughed it off. I later learned that he had rang one of the others when he was in shopping to ask her what size she reckoned I was cause he wanted to get the perfect ones and thats all i keep thinking in my head now- he rang another member of staff to talk about my size so he could buy me launderie!!!

Ever since the party I have felt so uncomfortable in his presence and I have only told my friend but swore her to secrecy because I hate the thought of people even hearing about it. Im thinking about handing in my notice. Im not a prude or anything but i just think it was so innapropriate- noone else gave a present like that. Am I overreacting?

Stheno

I've seen this happen multiple times in organisations with young workforces tbh.
No action taken, one particularly attractive lady I worked with got a lacy set of red nipple less underwear one year
Have you got a HR dept?

huey1975

Pics or gtfo

dudara

Giving a work colleague lingerie is utterly inappropriate. Especially as he went to trouble to get right sizes.

Is there anyone more senior you could speak to?

Polo_Mint

Hi OP

Its amazing that your manager has such a lack of awareness. You would think Stupidity was only in the minority but as you can see in post 3 its all around you.

If you found the present offensive, contact HR

banoffe2

That mist have come as a terrible shock OP nothing could have prepared you for that, it says a lot about the boss and his reputation. You are blessed that you are not falling for his charms and that you have your self esteem and dignity intact. Those who colluded with him regarding your size are equally as bad and obviously licking up to him.

For the moment keep your power and don't let him get to you, in that way he is winning and you are giving him the power to wreck your head.

In the mean time hold your head up high but keep a firm professional boundary. When you get the chance and ideally when he is in the least prepared you could shock him, ask to have a colleague go with you for support if you wish and tell him you need a quiet word, tell him about the Christmas party and how you and all your friends found it very strange and most unusual to be given lingerie from a boss to a member of staff and more over by the fact that other staff members were asked for advise on the correct size to buy, don't allow him to but in, say this wont take a minute I need you to hear me out, be as calm and professional as you can, and ask him straight out " Why did you feel the need to buy me lingerie for a gift and to consult with other staff about my size, I have discussed it with friends and family and they all found it very strange, wait to see the look on his face, just say your piece and enjoy the moment! if it is not possible to get the support of a friend you could record the conversation, don't respond to any comments like you cant take a joke etc trying to put it back on you, stay firm and simply say look I am not responding to that. I asked you a question and I need an answer it is as simple as that.
In the meantime be on the look out for another job. A friend of mine gets a chocolate Santa every Christmas from her boss who is a Dentist, hard one to stomach too! It says a lot about the other person you be sure not to take it personally, hold your head up high, a big hug to you X

LegacyUser

The place is small there is no HR department he is the manager/boss/owner.

taytobreath

Give him the back the present with a letter attached explaining that you think this is inappropriate behaviour, and warn him that this stops now.

Into The Blue

It was a joke. If he was trying to be sleazy, he would have given you the undies in private.

But if you feel aggrieved, report him.

banoffe2

I wonder if handing them back you are destroying the evidence, I wouldn't see this as a joke in any shape or form, and I do have a good sense of humour, there is a time and place for everything, not from an employer in my opinion. In setting our own boundaries we can teach others.

Whyohwhy?

I'd say that bang outta order myself (especially the fact he asked what sizes to get...) a supervisor of mine got me mini condoms and a blow up sheep thing. I was 17 the time, she was mid 20's. Was a giggle tbh.

But if your gut feeling beforehand was that he's a bit skeezy, I'd go over his head to the owner/head boss. That's really not appropriate at all. I dunno how else to advise you on this, it's a poxy situation to be in.
But I'll just say this, if you give them back to him... Make sure there's a few of your colleagues around and make it be known in front of them (and him, especially him) that you're not okay with it and make him look like the tit he is. But try to bring it up with HIS Boss, it's possible that he has previous or the boss has an idea of what he's like.

Ye shouldn't be having to deal with this type of shoite. I hope it works out well for you.

celligraphy

I would keep them in the office and wait until his wife or girlfriend ever visits and then hand it back to him in view of said wife or girlfriend , hopefully he 'll take it as a joke

First of all, what he did was just wrong. There is just no excuse for anyone to do that - and it is particularly inappropriate for a boss to do it.

Anyone who wants to write this off as just a joke hasn't the faintest idea what it feels like to be a young person in a small workplace who finds themselves (particularly herself) on the receiving end of the wrong kind of attention from an older boss.

Yep, OP, maybe he did mean it as a joke, but it's the kind of joke that should not be visited on a young member of staff by someone in a position of authority in the workplace.

I think handing in your notice without doing anything else would be a mistake. You should say something, either to him or else to someone senior to him. Saying it to him is better and fairer, but that can sometimes make the situation worse, so you'll have to judge that. But in any case what I think you should say is that you understand that it may have been intended as a bit of a laugh, and you played along not to spoil things at the Xmas party, but you didn't think it was right and it made you feel uncomfortable, and because of that you'd prefer if something like that didn't happen again.

If after that things don't go right, then maybe you will have to call it a day - but why should you hand in your notice when you've done nothing wrong?

_Brian

The fact that this is a small Company and he owner/manager/boss makes this hard.

Of course this was awfully inappropriate and embarrassing.

I think the best thing is to give them back. I'd probably just leave them back in his desk. He'll either get the message or come asking when you can set him straight on how inappropriate you feel it was, keep it calm and professional.

These small companies are a minefield with no HR and the owner in such a position. They range from being oblivious to beig ruthless with the power they have over employees, and with a small number of employees everyone knows everything straight away.

Good luck.

Mrs OBumble

It's inappropriate - but did you really expect him to do anything different?

Why are you still working there, given that you know he is a sleeze?

Good luck with the job-hunting.

gctest50

presentgonewrong wrote: »

............... but being the youngest ............maybe a tape recorder or something!

a tape recorder ? the youngest ? how many are working in this museum ?

BabysCoffee

Banoffee2 - what's wrong with getting a chocolate Santa from your boss? Am I missing something???

TallGlass

huey1975 wrote: »

Pics or gtfo

Oh my days !

cruizer101

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why are you still working there, given that you know he is a sleeze?

Jobs aren't quite ten a penny at the moment if you hadn't realised. I'd agree with your sentiment that OP would be best to find somewhere else to work. But leaving just because boss is bit of sleeze when no other job lined up is a bit mad. Plenty of places have slightly sleezy bosses while not ideal sometimes just need to deal with it for a while til can find something better.

December2012

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's inappropriate - but did you really expect him to do anything different?

Why are you still working there, given that you know he is a sleeze?

Good luck with the job-hunting.

That sounds like victim blaming. She shouldn't have to anticipate that a sleazy boss would be inappropriate.

Tiddlypeeps

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's inappropriate - but did you really expect him to do anything different?

Why are you still working there, given that you know he is a sleeze?

Good luck with the job-hunting.

Why would anyone expect that? That's a very bizarre thing to expect from a boss

Why are your posts in every single thread always so abrasive? It's like you deliberately try to take whatever stance will rile up the most people even if it's completely off the wall like this one... very strange.

groovyg

Op so much for it being secret santa if you knew who was giving you the gift. I thought with secret santa you didn't know who bought you the gift. The whole thing is supposed to be a piss take and havin a laugh. Is he like this with other female staff? as jobs aren't exactly easy to come by these days I think you might just get on with your job and forget about it.

Mrs OBumble

December2012 wrote: »

That sounds like victim blaming. She shouldn't have to anticipate that a sleazy boss would be inappropriate.

It is sexual harassment, and she could take a complaint to the Workplace Relations Commission (ref: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/harassment_at_work.html) - but only after she has tried informal approaches to resolving the issue.

But the reality is that a business-owning sleeze is unlikely to change his stripes. there is no board of directors or manager or HR that can be used to moderate his behaviour, as there would be in larger businesses. The OP might get some cash out of him - but in a smaller town, she will also get a reputation which means no one else will hire her.

If a person finds they are working for such a person, and sticks around there, then they are indeed setting themself up to be a victim.

Hemerodrome

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If a person finds they are working for such a person, and sticks around there, then they are indeed setting themself up to be a victim.

So your response to the suggestion that your post sounded like victim blaming is to clarify that, yes, you are victim blaming.

OP, don't mind this nonsense, you're not to blame and you didn't invite it, it's entirely on him and no matter what situation you work in, you're entitled to trust that colleagues at all levels of the organisation won't conduct themselves inappropriately

Log9

This is why it's a good idea to have a policy for presents! Saves a lot of hassle.

LegacyUser

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Banoffee2 - what's wrong with getting a chocolate Santa from your boss? Am I missing something???

Maybe he meant that a chocolate present isn't conducive to good dental hygiene??

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Totally inappropriate and OP would want to be careful or this could escalate.
OP was humiliated and my advice is its time to ask for a raise, if you follow. Use this to your advantage.

fly_agaric

Hemerodrome wrote: »

So your response to the suggestion that your post sounded like victim blaming is to clarify that, yes, you are victim blaming.

It's par for the course on this forum. From my lurking/reading I'd say many people who post regularly to it are managers, self employed or own companies I think and The Boss (TM) is always right!

In fairness an employee in this situation could be on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything concrete about this, hard to know if it is small place and owner/manager is the problem-person.

Mrs OBumble

Hemerodrome wrote: »

So your response to the suggestion that your post sounded like victim blaming is to clarify that, yes, you are victim blaming.

OP, don't mind this nonsense, you're not to blame and you didn't invite it, it's entirely on him and no matter what situation you work in, you're entitled to trust that colleagues at all levels of the organisation won't conduct themselves inappropriately

So what specific, actionable suggestions do you have for the OP about what she can do about this situation?

_Brian

fly_agaric wrote: »

It's par for the course on this forum. From my lurking/reading I'd say many people who post regularly to it are managers, self employed or own companies I think and The Boss (TM) is always right!

In fairness the advice may be right, & an employee in this situation could be on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything concrete about it.

Its very tough in these small companies, on one hand you have the law on your side, and this should be enough....

But the boss is the owner, manager, HR and everything all rolled into one, not specifically towards this case but in many instances best HR practice goes out the window and the owner will get their way, create too many waves and you're history, maybe not for this but for the next possible reason. Often these guys grew the business from their own skill set and so have no management or people management training at all, they often rule by strong hand tactics, when its going well it can be great environment to be in, but if you rub the boss up the wrong way and it can be a nightmare place to work, I'm not saying its right - but its the way things are, these guys own the business and so usually get their own way on everything

I still think OP should leave the gifts back on the boss's desk, he will realise he's made a mistake, or may come looking for clarification giving op an opening to put the record straight. I think if OP wants to continue there - make the point but with a measured approach.

mal1

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's inappropriate - but did you really expect him to do anything different?

Why are you still working there, given that you know he is a sleeze?

Good luck with the job-hunting.

I have never posted on this forum but it's disappointing to read the above quote, suggesting that a young girl starting off her working life should be a servile employee when confronted with such inappropriate behaviour. To suggest that there should be a subculture at work, counter to social norms, that an employee should be submissive in the face of a humiliation and go get another job. It's wrong.

Wabbit Ears

The OP should hand back the present to the boss in private ( as in not overheard by others) In a safe location where others are around so its cant escalate and simply say the present made you uncomfortable and its not to happen again. Be firm and polite and don't get into a discussion about it, just walk away.

This is a life skill, Nipping issues in the bud quietly and effectively. Its important to be able to manage peoples expectations, Including people higher up the work ladder, on where your personal boundaries are.

Mrs OBumble

mal1 wrote: »

I have never posted on this forum but it's disappointing to read the above quote, suggesting that a young girl starting off her working life should be a servile employee when confronted with such inappropriate behaviour. To suggest that there should be a subculture at work, counter to social norms, that an employee should be submissive in the face of a humiliation and go get another job. It's wrong.

Where on earth do you get the idea that I'm saying that the young woman (hint: she's well over 16) should be servile?

As to the idea that this type of behaviour is counter to social norms - are you having a laugh? There are plenty of people out there who would view this type of behaviour as OK. It sounds like at least some of the OP's colleagues do: if the boss has rung me looking for an estimate of her size, he would have been given a vastly wrong estimate, and she got a friendly warning about his plans.

The choices open to her are pretty stark:

1 Suck it up. (really bad idea, he'll get worse)

2 Make him see that his behaviour needs to change. (Not likely to succeed, he's the company owner)

3 Formal complaint (Has all sorts of stress and consequences involved, and she's unlikely to see the cash even if some is awarded to her)

4 Get a job somewhere else.


Can you see any other options?

_Brian

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The choices open to her are pretty stark:

1 Suck it up. (really bad idea, he'll get worse)

2 Make him see that his behaviour needs to change. (Not likely to succeed, he's the company owner)

3 Formal complaint (Has all sorts of stress and consequences involved, and she's unlikely to see the cash even if some is awarded to her)

4 Get a job somewhere else.


Can you see any other options?

Its a pity but these are the hard cold facts...
When someone owns and manages a small company like this, the reality of fair play and correct procedure often don't exist.

mal1

I can say no more other then I totally disagree. We obviously have different perspectives. For a man in his mid thirties (i.e. me), giving an unfamiliar 19 year old girl (which I consider young) such a present is against what I would call a social norm. Regardless if it's in work or outside, big company or small.

Managing a small company is not an excuse to be a complete and utter yob.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

DeltaWhite

I hate these type of threads. Nice to see sleazy men (or sometimes women) are still going strong in the employment world! OP on one hand I don't see what he did as a massive deal, but then again I went through 6 years of way worse than that in my last job, so I'm pretty thick skinned by now. It's a big deal to you, so that's all that matters. I suggest giving the gift back to him like others have advised and see how you get on. I worked for a boss before who was HR aswell, so any complaints went to him. I told him I didn't want to be sexually harassed anymore and I was told "well that's just lad's banter" and basically told to deal with it or the door was available for me to leave. Wish you best of luck with it OP. Not a nice way to feel!

Ursus Horribilis

Plus, if the OP is just starting out in her career, she might need to have this creep as a reference if she finds a job elsewhere

_Kaiser_

OP, just hand it back to him and explain that it was inappropriate and not to happen again.. hopefully that's the end of it.

But I agree with the poster above that suggested this might just be another "joke" gone wrong rather than anything sinister.. if he was being sleazy he would have given it to her privately or be making other advances, rather than in full view of the rest of the staff. Sounds to me like he's more of a dope than a creep TBH - BUT that's not to say it's acceptable regardless.

In any case the OP should deal with this decisively and as someone else also said, it's an important skill to learn in any case.

_Brian

Aiyana Quaint Driftwood wrote: »

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

For a constructive dismissal case to be taken OP would need to make a formal complaint and follow through on the full internal appeals systems as laid down by the company (before leaving her job), and by the company I mean by the owner, whom she wold be making the complaint against... This would be no easy route to start down..

People seem to think they can get in a huff about something, jack in their jobs and then make a constructive dismissal claim, it doesn't remotely work like that.. not close.

_Kaiser_

_Brian wrote: »

For a constructive dismissal case to be taken OP would need to make a formal complaint and follow through on the full internal appeals systems as laid down by the company (before leaving her job), and by the company I mean by the owner, whom she wold be making the complaint against... This would be no easy route to start down..

People seem to think they can get in a huff about something, jack in their jobs and then make a constructive dismissal claim, it doesn't remotely work like that.. not close.

+1

I also don't think the OP (or indeed people in this thread) need to be considering the "nuclear" option just yet.

Her boss did a very dumb thing (whether it was with a more sinister intent remains to be seen) and put her in an uncomfortable position as a result. This wasn't acceptable on his part, but she hasn't (as far as we know) spoken to him about it, or returned his "gift" so he may (in his stupidity) think she was fine with it - hey everyone laughed right?

Bottom line, she needs to talk to him directly, tell him it wasn't on, and isn't to happen again.

I'd be fairly confident that will resolve it UNLESS he did have ulterior motives in which case, realistically, leaving is probably her best bet under the circumstances.

Diamond Doll

It's certainly sleazy, it's certainly inappropriate. Is it worth losing your job over? Only you know that.

There isn't anyone higher than him that you can go to, so if I were you I'd probably just minimise contact with him and keep my eye out for a new job.

While he was absolutely wrong to do what he did, I can't see how it would benefit you in any way to raise it with him or to take any further action.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all of your replys im still really confused on what to do. He is very controlling over staff and its his way or no way. I'd be worried if i did give them back that he would either take the p*ss out of me or bring me into the office for an uncomfortable chat. He would also defanitley tell other members of staff and I would be labelled as someone who cant take a joke.

Just to add, today there was a further incident. A customer was chatting about xmas, woman mid 50's and he shouted over (the boss) Well I wonder will you get anything like what I got Sarah* laughing. I said nothing and stayed where I was and the customer enquired what I had got. I again, said nothing and then he said I hear she's already worn them! and again i said nothing just continued what I was doing..another member of staff joined in saying ooh same haha laughing thinking it was all just banter..maybe it was but I didntfind it funny. I'm humiliated enough by the situation nevermind him telling customers

Atlantic Dawn

I'd leave and make it known in my notice letter that he and his gift was the reason I was going. No place in the workplace for people like this and the sooner he is gone the better. Would probably not be a sackable offence in the company so he would stay working there and it would be awkward for the rest of your time there if you were to stay.

If he's married I would send the gift to his home address and say you don't want them.

BabySlam

Race into his office the next few times he has visitors, saying "I must show you what X gave me for Xmas before you go" and watch his face.

CruelCoin

Aiyana Quaint Driftwood wrote: »

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

I disagree with giving of the lingerie, terrible thing to do.

But constructive dismissal? Methinks you do not know what that means.

looksee

My suggestion would be to just ignore the whole thing, don't respond at all. Something a bit similar happened to me (though not as deliberate and aggressive, and I am not 19!) I just left the gift on the table in the room where we were. Someone helpfully gave it to me and I just said 'oh yes, thanks' with no expression and casually threw it in the bin.

It is fairly obvious that the boss's aim was to embarrass you, and enjoy your embarrassment, so don't be embarrassed or annoyed enough to respond at all. Just let the whole subject die. He is a creep who made a fool of himself by doing what he did, if your colleagues were more inclined to laugh than to empathise with you then that reflects on them not you. Try to treat him exactly how you did previously, try not to look bothered, just be professional.

If he mentions it again, blank him, look vague and mildly puzzled and talk about something else.

Yes, you are perfectly entitled to take offense, he was offensive. Yes you could think in terms of reporting him - if there was anyone to report him to, but there isn't. Yes you can talk about harassment, but more important is to learn when to fight a battle, and when to just deal with it.

I know this is not a 'current thinking' pc solution but don't give yourself any more hassle than you have to.
And move on as soon as you reasonably can without putting yourself at a disadvantage.

esforum

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who wants to write this off as just a joke hasn't the faintest idea what it feels like to be a young person in a small workplace who finds themselves (particularly herself) on the receiving end of the wrong kind of attention from an older boss.

Yes, we were all born middle aged!

OP, It was a joke, a bad joke, an innapropriate joke but still a joke. Its secret santa, its not an official work event and making an issue of it in a small company will result in secret santa becoming a thing of the past and thats something you being new, dont want to be blamed for.

Where the other staff really laughing along or were they just covering with fake laughs? The mood of the room is usually a good indicator of how to proceed. If the entire office genuinely thought it was funny there may be a reason for it, are you the butt of some insider joke that you are not aware of?

Talk to the person, tell them while you realise it was a secret santa you felt uncomfortable recieving lingerie. If it was a genuine joke and he had no lecherous intent, your talk will end with an apology by a red faced man.

elathecoder

Don't companies get sued for something like that?

esforum

elathecoder wrote: »

Don't companies get sued for something like that?

For unsanctioned events organised between staff on their own initiative? Not really not unless having recieved a complaint they still failed to act.

esforum

esforum wrote: »

Yes, we were all born middle aged!

It's not about age, it's about maturity - something the OP's boss seems to lack.

esforum wrote: »

making an issue of it in a small company will result in secret santa becoming a thing of the past and thats something you being new, dont want to be blamed for.

That's just telling the OP to accept the abuse, or else people will say it's her fault, so zero marks for that advice. That's the kind of crap women have had to put up with in workplaces for a long time, and it's the kind of crap good workplaces have worked hard to eliminate.