Can my landlord break my lease?

shellycub

Hi,

My landlord had to come and collect rent while I was not in the property. We had closed doors to all rooms.

When I returned the landlord had left a note commenting on cleanliness of apartment and querying a maintenence issue with toilet. At the end of the note they have written 'I'll discuss letting agreement with you later.' Also there were wet towels in the bathroom which they took upon themselves to wash.


Should I be worried? The apartment needed a good clean but was by no means dirty. Can they break the lease based on this. I know I should've made sure it was clean before they came but just couldn't

Thanks

dudara

Had you given them permission to enter the apartment?

shellycub

Yes but we had an agreement if doors were closed they wouldn't open them.

Pay the landlord by bank transfer. A landlord who wants to come around to collect in cash is not a good one.

shellycub

I know, I was told it would be short term, however has turned into 6 months now. To be honest there have been warning signs all along but didn't have much choice. Just worried that they are trying to get us out now to raise rent and are looking for any excuse.....

shellycub

I just don't want a dispute....was already counting down to end of lease.....just want to know my rights if I need them.

GreatDefector

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pay the landlord by bank transfer. A landlord who wants to come around to collect in cash is not a good one.

I had it for 3 years, biggest pain in the hoop. I couldn't prove to a bank for a loan/mortgage etc that I was paying rent each month.... Plus the evenings he wanted to collect the rent i'd be waiting on him. Disaster. Never again. I wont sign a lease if thats the case

listermint

GreatDefector wrote: »

I had it for 3 years, biggest pain in the hoop. I couldn't prove to a bank for a loan/mortgage etc that I was paying rent each month.... Plus the evenings he wanted to collect the rent i'd be waiting on him. Disaster. Never again. I wont sign a lease if thats the case

I'm sure the tax man would like to have spoken to him

Calypso Realm

shellycub wrote: »

Hi,

My landlord had to come and collect rent while I was not in the property. We had closed doors to all rooms.

When I returned the landlord had left a note commenting on cleanliness of apartment and querying a maintenence issue with toilet. At the end of the note they have written 'I'll discuss letting agreement with you later.' *Also there were wet towels in the bathroom which they took upon themselves to wash.*


Should I be worried? The apartment needed a good clean but was by no means dirty. Can they break the lease based on this. I know I should've made sure it was clean before they came but just couldn't

Thanks

It's bad enough the landlord enters the property in your absence but *this* I find utterly incredible! I'm speechless! Does the landlord live in the same property?

You need to consult your lease but IME it would be extremely unlikely to contain a clause which would permit this and even if it did it would be virtually unenforceable. It would have to constitute a breach of something far more serious ( like persistent non-payment of rent) as opposed to one about keeping a flat clean (and only if there is provision therein) before a landlord could (legally) be being able to terminate a lease.

Just because something is written in a lease doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. There are certain laws to protect tenants rights where evictions etc are concerned.

shellycub

Thank you!
No the landlord does not live in the property.
I've been searching for information but am finding it hard to find anything specific about cleanliness.

The place was not dirty.....it needed to be tidied I'll admit that but was not dirty. I am mortified that they did what they did.

I've found that landlords can serve notice of termination if tenants don't fulfill obligations and I suppose that's what I'm worried about them accusing me of. What is also annoying me is that I scrubbed the shower for days after moving in.....and then for them to turn round and accuse me of not being clean.

esforum

so what if it was a bit messy and untidy? show me a home that isnt just after everyone has run out the door to work. The towels, if I got along very well and I do mean very well with a long term tenent I might do that as a favour but its just plain wrong in this scenario. My tenent sometimes gives me permission to enter in their absence if something needs repairing, etc and its easier for them anyway if its done while they are at work but I enter the room with the problem and open door, thats it. Besides legality, its just bloody manners.

whats so difficult about doing a transfer and calling around at an agreed time every 6 months or whatever and saying hello while having a quick check thats everythings ok (including any repairs or maintenance issues that may be creeping in) and possible a cup of tea?

cowboys like this guy give decent landlords a bad rep

PS a tenent that scrubs the shower themselves on moving in, yes please!

vagazzled

I think he was trying purposely to shame and mortify you by washing the towels himself.
It sounds like a suspicious scenario- he wants you out to raise rent if he's kicking up over a few damp towels or whatever 'surface mess' you left when going to work.
I agree with the posters who suggest it's best to pay by bank transfer for the day you are looking for your own place.Your landlord sounds dodgy, I'd wonder if he is even PTRB registered, pulling stunts like that.
If it were not for the housing crisis, you'd be lucky if he broke the lease for you by the sounds of him.

Graces7

OP; this is appalling and you would do well to speak to Threshold as this is not in keeping with tenancy law. I doubt he is registered. There is no way my landlord would be allowed in when I am out. You are entitled to peace and privacy. You really need to stand up over this.

REXER

Graces7 wrote: »

OP; this is appalling and you would do well to speak to Threshold as this is not in keeping with tenancy law. I doubt he is registered. There is no way my landlord would be allowed in when I am out. You are entitled to peace and privacy. You really need to stand up over this.

Threshhold and possibly PRTB complaint as this cowboy needs to learn that this sort of arrogant behavior is out!

shellycub

REXER wrote: »

Threshhold and possibly PRTB complaint as this cowboy needs to learn that this sort of arrogant behavior is out!

How does making a complaint work? What will happen?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Folks, perhaps the OP should see what the LL has to say before jumping straight into Threshold and PRTB? It could be nothing. Why do things always escalate so quickly?

athtrasna

The LL doesn't need to know that Threshold /PRTB have been contacted. I would think it important that the OP is fully informed before contacting the LL.

shellycub

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Folks, perhaps the OP should see what the LL has to say before jumping straight into Threshold and PRTB? It could be nothing. Why do things always escalate so quickly?

I agree, I want to avoid conflict/dispute. I posted here to ask for advice. Could they realistically threaten to end lease over this?

I want to know where I stand and what my rights are. Going to threshold/prtb would be last resort.

I contacted landlord apologising if they were upset by apartment, explained due to personal circumstances it couldn't be helped. I also pointed out that we had an agreement if doors were closed they would not be opened and that I was upset about that.

Am waiting for a reply which I probably won't get until tomorrow so will spend weekend worrying about it.

cattolico

Deleted User wrote: »

Pay the landlord by bank transfer. A landlord who wants to come around to collect in cash is not a good one.

Correct. Insist on bank transfer.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

OP; this is appalling and you would do well to speak to Threshold as this is not in keeping with tenancy law. I doubt he is registered. There is no way my landlord would be allowed in when I am out. You are entitled to peace and privacy. You really need to stand up over this.

The LL had permission to enter the house so he is keeping with tenants law. The only thing he did wrong from what I can see (and it is a bit bizarre) is take away the towels. I often give my LL permission to enter the house alone when he needs to do stuff, suits me much better than always having to be there.

cattolico wrote: »

Correct. Insist on bank transfer.

While it's obviously much handier you can't insist on it. Cash is legal tender (obviously) and a LL has the right to receive the rent by what ever method he prefers. To be honest I can see why LL might want to collect cash myself these days. You get to keep a better eye on your property and also it's a lot more difficult for someone to stop paying rent if a LL is calling to their door every month. People aren't half as brave when faced with the person they aren't paying.

Graham

shellycub wrote: »

I agree, I want to avoid conflict/dispute. I posted here to ask for advice. Could they realistically threaten to end lease over this?

I want to know where I stand and what my rights are. Going to threshold/prtb would be last resort.

I contacted landlord apologising if they were upset by apartment, explained due to personal circumstances it couldn't be helped. I also pointed out that we had an agreement if doors were closed they would not be opened and that I was upset about that.

Am waiting for a reply which I probably won't get until tomorrow so will spend weekend worrying about it.

OP, don't worry about it too much. If the landlord thinks you have broken the terms of your lease he has to give you a fair opportunity to remedy the situation. Only if you ignore that is there potential for things to escalate.

If I were in your position, I would be annoyed that the landlord had let himself into my home to conduct an ad-hoc inspection. With the best will in the world, we would all have days where our home wouldn't be looking its best.

You need to have a chat with the landlord and tell him you need his bank details to deposit future rent payments into. If that's not forthcoming, I'd be suggesting he needs to fit into your schedule to collect cash. I'd be making it quite clear that under no circumstances is he to enter your home again if you're not around other than in an emergency (collecting rent isn't an emergency).

TLDR, relax, there is no legal basis for this to go anywhere. Put your foot down (gently) and enjoy Christmas.

shellycub

Graham wrote: »

OP, don't worry about it too much. If the landlord thinks you have broken the terms of your lease he has to give you a fair opportunity to remedy the situation. Only if you ignore that is there potential for things to escalate.

If I were in your position, I would be annoyed that the landlord had let himself into my home to conduct an ad-hoc inspection. With the best will in the world, we would all have days where our home wouldn't be looking it's best.

Thank you, just waiting for them to reply now, just feel like I've been waiting for something to go wrong.

That is what I'm planning on saying when they do reply that I want to pay rent into bank and they can make an appointment if they want to make an inspection.

I had given permission to enter but was told they would only come, take the rent and if doors were closed they would stay closed.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

Thank you, just waiting for them to reply now, just feel like I've been waiting for something to go wrong.

That is what I'm planning on saying when they do reply that I want to pay rent into bank and they can make an appointment if they want to make an inspection.

I had given permission to enter but was told they would only come, take the rent and if doors were closed they would stay closed.

Sounds good. You need to set boundaries. Period. By all means read the Threshold and PRTB sites as they explain very clearly what your rights are and what your landlords rights and limitations are and as a tenant you need to be well informed. Threshold will talk with you and not do anything re the landlord without your desire or permission. Trust on that. You have a right to more privacy than this. Also the landlord needs to register the tenancy by law.

Graham

Just because a landlord is asking for the rent in cash, it does not necessarily follow that the landlord has not registered the tenancy and/or is not paying tax.

shellycub

Graces7 wrote: »

Sounds good. You need to set boundaries. Period. By all means read the Threshold and PRTB sites as they explain very clearly what your rights are and what your landlords rights and limitations are and as a tenant you need to be well informed. Threshold will talk with you and not do anything re the landlord without your desire or permission. Trust on that. You have a right to more privacy than this. Also the landlord needs to register the tenancy by law.

Thank you, have decided to ring to ask advice but won't take action unless needed.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

Thank you, have decided to ring to ask advice but won't take action unless needed.

Well done.. I do that whenever a problem arises. I had one landlord who kept going in when we were out and wrote to us, " I can enter MY PROPERTY whenever I want and I do not have to give a reason." Threshold said " OH NO HE CANNOT!" Emerged he was not registered so things got better sorted after that and I always paid by cheque. Since then always by standing order. It is legal and absolutely no reason he can say no.

shellycub

Graces7 wrote: »

Well done.. I do that whenever a problem arises. I had one landlord who kept going in when we were out and wrote to us, " I can enter MY PROPERTY whenever I want and I do not have to give a reason." Threshold said " OH NO HE CANNOT!" Emerged he was not registered so things got better sorted after that and I always paid by cheque. Since then always by standing order. It is legal and absolutely no reason he can say no.

Thank you, I have a feeling they may not be registered either. The note that was written just upset me so much. Had been away and returned to it. Don't know why they didn't contact me directly if they were that upset, now I'm left worrying.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

Thank you, I have a feeling they may not be registered either. The note that was written just upset me so much. Had been away and returned to it. Don't know why they didn't contact me directly if they were that upset, now I'm left worrying.

Then let Threshold advise and comfort.. it may well be that the landlord is simply unaware ie ignorant of tenant rights and still sees your place as his? Like the one I mentioned. It was the cottage he grew up in and he could not let go. The house was on a slope and he used to walk past the kitchen window every day peering in ...all we saw was his legs! A curtain went up then! You have the right to peace and privacy in your home, and the simple mistake was to allow access when he asked. And that was a very intimidating note to leave. I am not tidy and I remind myself that it is no ones concern but mine where and how my things are. It is the structure and furniture I am renting. Not the bedding and towels etc. When I leave it will be empty and cleaner than when I arrived. That is all that matters.

bgo1

shellycub wrote: »

Hi,

When I returned the landlord had left a note commenting on cleanliness of apartment and querying a maintenence issue with toilet. At the end of the note they have written 'I'll discuss letting agreement with you later.' Also there were wet towels in the bathroom which they took upon themselves to wash.

Perhaps the LL just meant the 'letting agreement' in relation to tidiness of the property not in relation to trying to kick you out which likely isn't the intention if you are paying on time and in full.

Agree it was wrong to go in if you had agreement on closed doors, but i think this is the bathroom you are referring too and not a bedroom which makes it slightly more understandable.

dbit

Stick a cheap web cam hanging off pc or lappy with motion detect software (Most free online) catch him entering and then turn it back on him ,Most agreements will accomodate an arranged viewing for upkeep checks , this is always notified in writing pre the inspection .- outside of that he is breaking the law entering unanounced and non arranged with tenant .

Graham

dbit wrote: »

Stick a cheap web cam hanging off pc or lappy with motion detect software (Most free online) catch him entering and then turn it back on him ,Most agreements will accomodate an arranged viewing for upkeep checks , this is always notified in writing pre the inspection .- outside of that he is breaking the law entering unanounced and non arranged with tenant .

OP had already agreed the landlord could enter the property for the purpose of collecting the rent.

dbit

Graham wrote: »

OP had already agreed the landlord could enter the property for the purpose of collecting the rent.

Yes and if you read all of my post you might see that i am advising that he does this for any future suspected enteries .

I have been through this with a previous landlord and it didnt take me long to put a stop to the un-expected enteries . Once the footage was emailed with a question can you explain this visit - he never came back :-).

Graham

dbit wrote: »

Yes and if you read all of my post you might see that i am advising that he does this for any future suspected enteries .

I have been through this with a previous landlord and it didnt take me long to put a stop to the un-expected enteries . Once the footage was emailed with a question can you explain this visit - he never came back :-).

The OP didn't mention unexpected inspections being an issue

Arbiter of Good Taste

dbit wrote: »

Jesus christ the amount of "Did you read the post" trolls in here lmfao you lot are simply hilarious .

Really? Because your post is the funniest one yet.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Graham wrote: »

TLDR, relax, there is no legal basis for this to go anywhere. Put your foot down (gently) and enjoy Christmas.

Nah, it's much better if the OP goes completely nuclear

athtrasna

Mod note

Dbit please do not post on this thread again.

Graces7

OP how is it going? Would value an update if that is OK with you?Hope all is OK?

shellycub

Graces7 wrote: »

OP how is it going? Would value an update if that is OK with you?Hope all is OK?

Hi, don't mind giving an update at all. Would appreciate more advice even!

So LL finally got back to me yesterday, left a message saying that they would have a plumber in to look at toilet and could I ring them back. I replied by text as I wasn't able to ring. Asked when would plumber be calling. I was told that LL was waiting to hear from plumber, and that they would be there to let him in. I replied saying that myself and my partner would be there from five so any time after that would be perfect.

When I got home at five I looked at my phone to see a message that said plumber had been and secured toilet......am I wrong in thinking that they should have told me when the plumber was coming and I should have a choice of being there?

So now I'm confused about what I should do. They haven't mentioned anything about discussing letting agreement again. Part of me thinks just let sleeping dogs lie. The other part of me wants to tell LL that I'm not happy with situation and how upset I was at the weekend.

Am considering writing a letter maybe?

You probably regret asking now!!!

Thanks

What was wrong with the toilet?

If it as something that had the potential to lead to water overflow etc the LL would be within his rights to let the plumber in to prevent this.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

Hi, don't mind giving an update at all. Would appreciate more advice even!

So LL finally got back to me yesterday, left a message saying that they would have a plumber in to look at toilet and could I ring them back. I replied by text as I wasn't able to ring. Asked when would plumber be calling. I was told that LL was waiting to hear from plumber, and that they would be there to let him in. I replied saying that myself and my partner would be there from five so any time after that would be perfect.

When I got home at five I looked at my phone to see a message that said plumber had been and secured toilet......am I wrong in thinking that they should have told me when the plumber was coming and I should have a choice of being there?

So now I'm confused about what I should do. They haven't mentioned anything about discussing letting agreement again. Part of me thinks just let sleeping dogs lie. The other part of me wants to tell LL that I'm not happy with situation and how upset I was at the weekend.

Am considering writing a letter maybe?

You probably regret asking now!!!

Thanks

Yes he should have made arrangements with you UNLESS it was a serious damaging leak. Yes you need to write clearly that he needs to make an appointment with you before entering. This is your right as a tenant. Did you phone Threshold? Please do. But unless you set limits he is not going to stop jut coming in when he pleases. And also you need to ell him that you will be setting up a standing order and need his bank details or paying by cheque and that he is not to enter to collect the rent any more. The ball is in your court now; yes it is unpleasant but you will feel 1000% easier when it is sorted. At present he is making all the running and has no idea that you are upset. Please call Threshold today.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

Hi, don't mind giving an update at all. Would appreciate more advice even!

So LL finally got back to me yesterday, left a message saying that they would have a plumber in to look at toilet and could I ring them back. I replied by text as I wasn't able to ring. Asked when would plumber be calling. I was told that LL was waiting to hear from plumber, and that they would be there to let him in. I replied saying that myself and my partner would be there from five so any time after that would be perfect.

When I got home at five I looked at my phone to see a message that said plumber had been and secured toilet......am I wrong in thinking that they should have told me when the plumber was coming and I should have a choice of being there?

So now I'm confused about what I should do. They haven't mentioned anything about discussing letting agreement again. Part of me thinks just let sleeping dogs lie. The other part of me wants to tell LL that I'm not happy with situation and how upset I was at the weekend.

Am considering writing a letter maybe?

You probably regret asking now!!!

Thanks

Not at all; this is my 7th Irish tenancy and not much I have not seen; and I do some pro bono advocacy work also to good effect. CALL THRESHOLD! PS I am working on a book re living in Ireland and chatted with Threshold when I called them re the current issues with the landlord. Told them a few of my experiences and they assure me they will buy the book!

shellycub

Alicia Prickly Pickax wrote: »

What was wrong with the toilet?

If it as something that had the potential to lead to water overflow etc the LL would be within his rights to let the plumber in to prevent this.

It was wobbly, needed to be screwed down. I know if it's an emergency they can but I have asked specifically what time the plumber would be there. I was never told a time. This is the second time it's happened and it feels like the LL is doing it so I don't have an option of being there. I'm probably being paranoid and maybe they think they are being helpful by making it so I don't have to be there.

Mrs OBumble

shellycub wrote: »

So LL finally got back to me yesterday, left a message saying that they would have a plumber in to look at toilet and could I ring them back. I replied by text as I wasn't able to ring. Asked when would plumber be calling. I was told that LL was waiting to hear from plumber, and that they would be there to let him in. I replied saying that myself and my partner would be there from five so any time after that would be perfect.

When I got home at five I looked at my phone to see a message that said plumber had been and secured toilet......am I wrong in thinking that they should have told me when the plumber was coming and I should have a choice of being there?

They asked you to ring them back - and during a phone call it would have been possible to make your opinion known properly and to negotiate alternatives. But instead you chose to text immediately, rather than wait and call at a time when you could. Texts are good for reminders, and simple messages. Not for anything complex.

Also, it's Christmas week. Getting tradespeople at this time of year is difficult enough, especially for trivial jobs. And you're wanting him to get someone to do the work after-hours as well.

In your initial posts, I think the LL was bang out of order. But for this issue, you are. So IMHO, leave this to lie.


Also - one of the advantages of renting is that it's the LL's who has to take time off work etc to let tradespeople in, not yours.

petes

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They asked you to ring them back - and during a phone call it would have been possible to make your opinion known properly and to negotiate alternatives. But instead you chose to text immediately, rather than wait and call at a time when you could. Texts are good for reminders, and simple messages. Not for anything complex.

.

Sorry but isn't text suitable for anything complex? For one you have a record of it and as you well know a text isn't really that limited these days.

Graham

petes wrote: »

Sorry but isn't text suitable for anything complex? For one you have a record of it and as you well know a text isn't really that limited these days.

One of the biggest problems with text/email is the intended tone will usually be lost.

A quick friendly call saying "thanks for sorting out the toilet but please arrange a time for me to be at home if you or any tradesmen need access to the house in the future" may be enough to knock this on the head now.

shellycub

What I meant was that I think I have the right to know when the LL would be entering my apartment. Also from what I have read I have the right to say I want to be there if possible.

I suggested a time. I would not have had a problem if I had gotten a reply saying it didn't suit and telling me when the plumber would be there.

And yes, a perk of having a LL is that they deal with these things. I don't feel I trust my LL to enter any more without invading our privacy.

Graces7

shellycub wrote: »

What I meant was that I think I have the right to know when the LL would be entering my apartment. Also from what I have read I have the right to say I want to be there if possible.

I suggested a time. I would not have had a problem if I had gotten a reply saying it didn't suit and telling me when the plumber would be there.

And yes, a perk of having a LL is that they deal with these things. I don't feel I trust my LL to enter any more without invading our privacy.

Well said and let him know your boundaries fully now. Tell him imply in writing that you will pay by eg standing order or whatever and that he is not to enter without at least 24 hrs notice and with prior agreement with you according to tenancy law. You do have these rights. The toilet was not en emergency.

irish_dave_83

You should suggest on bank payments to the LL so that they don't have to trouble themselves coming to the residence all of the time and that you don't like carrying that much cash around(or some other believable excuse). That shouldn't ruffle too many feathers and they will get your point without feeling attacked.

If it doesn't work you need to say it straight to them about coming into the residence. They can't terminate your lease for wanting your own reasonable privacy, so don't be to afraid of upsetting them (once its professional).

Graces7

Shelley; I jut came back before closing down.. the poor landlord has NO IDEA of the problems he is causing you unless and until YOU write to him. Think about it? To make this work for you you have to write, to communicate with him, to state your boundaries in writing, If you need help with the letter by all means pm me and let me know that you have done so? We can give all the advice in the world but YOU have to do this. Not easy the first time but it does get easier! Will be back tomorrow briefly but wait now and HAPPY CHRISTMAS. Oh this reminded me of one rental where the toilet was not attached to the floor any more. I did not realise this.Until the inevitable flood happened. Called the landlord who appeared with the " plumber" when he had done the school bus run, much later.. the landlord mopped the flood up with great drama whereupon the plumber claimed it was too wet for him to work in there and vanished. For the next six months I hovered... I had told that landlord not to come in without permission etc and he obeyed that.

esforum

shellycub wrote: »

Asked when would plumber be calling. I was told that LL was waiting to hear from plumber, and that they would be there to let him in.

shellycub wrote: »

I replied saying that myself and my partner would be there from five so any time after that would be perfect.

the OP didnt say that the plumber and LL could not enter. You merely stated a preference for a time after you arrived home.

You need to be clear, if you want to be present then say it in black and white "No, thats no good for us, we want to be present when the plumber is here"

Clear and no confusion. Having said that, you had a broken toilet and presumable the time was when the plumber could do the job, not when suited the landlord. There has to be some give and take when it comes to askking landlords to get repairs carried out.

esforum

Graces7 wrote: »

Shelley; I jut came back before closing down.. the poor landlord has NO IDEA of the problems he is causing you unless and until YOU write to him. Think about it? To make this work for you you have to write, to communicate with him, to state your boundaries in writing, If you need help with the letter by all means pm me and let me know that you have done so? We can give all the advice in the world but YOU have to do this. Not easy the first time but it does get easier! Will be back tomorrow briefly but wait now and HAPPY CHRISTMAS. Oh this reminded me of one rental where the toilet was not attached to the floor any more. I did not realise this.Until the inevitable flood happened. Called the landlord who appeared with the " plumber" when he had done the school bus run, much later.. the landlord mopped the flood up with great drama whereupon the plumber claimed it was too wet for him to work in there and vanished. For the next six months I hovered... I had told that landlord not to come in without permission etc and he obeyed that.

A, the OP is having an issue with a landlord, its a small issue, dont overreact,

B, toilets need not be connected to the ground to work, they have pipes leading out via the floor or wall and should only leak the amount of water actually in the bowl.