The age of the criminal 'protester'

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/modular-homes-scheme-delayed-over-fire-threats-by-masked-men-34300452.html



we have seen this activity with the water protesters and now with this site for homeless housing. Have we really come to this as a nation?

KERSPLAT!

I would assume it was an idle threat but who knows.

Edit: it being the burning out of machinery

razorblunt

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I would assume it was an idle threat but who knows.

Edit: it being the burning out of machinery

Idle alright, most of those protestors wouldn't be bothered putting work into anything.

One eyed Jack

handlemaster wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/modular-homes-scheme-delayed-over-fire-threats-by-masked-men-34300452.html



we have seen this activity with the water protesters and now with this site for homeless housing. Have we really come to this as a nation?

As a nation?

In fairness, I wouldn't say a mere handful of people are anywhere near representative of Ireland as a nation. By their very nature, protesters are likely to be a minority, and people within that minority who use threats of violence and destruction of property as intimidation tactics, shouldn't be seen as representative of the majority of protesters who do not engage in those sorts of tactics.

SEPT 23 1989

The criminal thing here is the cost of these things compared to building permanent housing

biko

Please keep the rest of the nation out of Ballymun affairs.

Fr_Dougal

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The criminal thing here is the cost of these things compared to building permanent housing

Don't they cost something like €120k? I'd imagine a decent builder could contract build the equivalent in bricks and mortar for less.

No doubt 'he shall not be named' greased a few palms on this deal and is sitting pretty on a nice maintenance contract for these Wendy houses.

Valetta

What exactly were they protesting about?

Annasopra

handlemaster wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/modular-homes-scheme-delayed-over-fire-threats-by-masked-men-34300452.html

we have seen this activity with the water protesters and now with this site for homeless housing. Have we really come to this as a nation?

No. These people are not the nation.

Annasopra

Valetta wrote: »

What exactly were they protesting about?

There was a protest from people who were going to purchase the site as a coop housing scheme.

There was also threats and intimidation against the contractors.

Its unclear who was doing the threatening.

looksee

Brushed aside in that report was the peaceful protesters looking for a return of a deposit for cooperative housing on the site. What is that about and why is there no comment on something that seems like a great deal more reasonable thing to protest about?

Come to that, what exactly are the criminal protesters complaining about?

kneemos

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Don't they cost something like €120k? I'd imagine a decent builder could contract build the equivalent in bricks and mortar for less.

No doubt 'he shall not be named' greased a few palms on this deal and is sitting pretty on a nice maintenance contract for these Wendy houses.

Need to be seen to do something before the election presumably.
Another costly folly along with the banking inquiry and post codes nobody uses.

FallSilently

Housing, water, Shell, bog cutting, this is not new, it's always happened. And it certainly seems to grab attention.

KomradeBishop

This and the housing development in Finglas being bought out after deposits have already been paid, are both major fúck-ups - why is the local council deliberately screwing people over and showing no basic courtesies of consultation (or of even just making sure people get their money back...) or respect for already legally binding agreements?

Here is the story of the co-op:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ballymun-co-op-seeks-200-000-back-from-city-council-1.2448189

In both cases, it looks a lot like the council deliberately fúcking people over, while funnelling money into the pockets of developers.

GAAman

The two other parties in this have said it's bull****. The builders and the security crowd.

RayM

It's certainly the age of criminalising the protester - politicians, the Gardai and the media using the bad behaviour of a tiny minority to smear all protesters, thus discouraging people from exercising their right to protest at all. The 'false imprisonment' of Joan Burton is a worrying example of this.

kneemos

KomradeBishop wrote: »

This and the housing development in Finglas being bought out after deposits have already been paid, are both major fúck-ups - why is the local council deliberately screwing people over and showing no basic courtesies of consultation (or of even just making sure people get their money back...) or respect for already legally binding agreements?

Here is the story of the co-op:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ballymun-co-op-seeks-200-000-back-from-city-council-1.2448189

In both cases, it looks a lot like the council deliberately fúcking people over, while funnelling money into the pockets of developers.

The Government purchased these Portokabins directly from the company who are installing them.
Where do developers come in?

handlemaster

RayM wrote: »

It's certainly the age of criminalising the protester - politicians, the Gardai and the media using the bad behaviour of a tiny minority to smear all protesters, thus discouraging people from exercising their right to protest at all. The 'false imprisonment' of Joan Burton is a worrying example of this.

Big difference will peacefull protest and intimidation of people be they public reps or not.

Annasopra

RayM wrote: »

It's certainly the age of criminalising the protester - politicians, the Gardai and the media using the bad behaviour of a tiny minority to smear all protesters, thus discouraging people from exercising their right to protest at all. The 'false imprisonment' of Joan Burton is a worrying example of this.

I completely agree with peaceful protest. What happened to Joan Burton was complete thuggishness. Nothing less.

RayM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I completely agree with peaceful protest. What happened to Joan Burton was complete thuggishness. Nothing less.

Blocking her car, whilst surrounded by Gardai (who, as we've seen from other protests, wouldn't hesitate to engage in highly thuggish behaviour against peaceful protesters), was an angry response to a pro-austerity politician rolling up in her ministerial Merc for a photo opportunity. The whole thing was completely overblown for political gain, and it certainly didn't amount to 'false imprisonment'.

Victor

RayM wrote: »

Blocking her car, whilst surrounded by Gardai (who, as we've seen from other protests, wouldn't hesitate to engage in highly thuggish behaviour against peaceful protesters), was an angry response to a pro-austerity politician rolling up in her ministerial Merc for a photo opportunity. The whole thing was completely overblown for political gain, and it certainly didn't amount to 'false imprisonment'.

By "ministerial Merc", do you mean a Toyota? http://thestar.ie/20-protesters-face-charges-for-trapping-joan-burton-in-her-car/

RayM

Victor wrote: »

By "ministerial Merc", do you mean a Toyota? http://thestar.ie/20-protesters-face-charges-for-trapping-joan-burton-in-her-car/

Whatever. It was surrounded by, and contained, an entourage of Gardai.

JustTheOne

RayM wrote: »

Whatever. It was surrounded by, and contained, an entourage of Gardai.

Would love to see your reaction if a family member was surrounded in her car and roared at and abused for hours.

RayM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Would love to see your reaction if a family member was surrounded in her car and soared at and abused for hours.

If she was a senior member of a pro-austerity government, and she happened to be visiting an area badly affected by her government's policies, for a photo opportunity, I'd understand why people weren't happy to see her there, and why they might say bad words to her. Most of all though, I'd be thankful that she had so much Garda protection.

handlemaster

RayM wrote: »

Blocking her car, whilst surrounded by Gardai (who, as we've seen from other protests, wouldn't hesitate to engage in highly thuggish behaviour against peaceful protesters), was an angry response to a pro-austerity politician rolling up in her ministerial Merc for a photo opportunity. The whole thing was completely overblown for political gain, and it certainly didn't amount to 'false imprisonment'.

What would RayM say if it was he who was in the car going about his business and they thugs turned up... Or maybe his partner was in that position

pablo128

handlemaster wrote: »

Big difference will peacefull protest and intimidation of people be they public reps or not.

There's a big difference too between a typical Irish protest, and the likes of a protest in France where they routinely burn anything in sight. Including trucks full of livestock.

Jesus she got shouted at. God love her.

RayM

handlemaster wrote: »

What would RayM say if it was he who was in the car going about his business and they thugs turned up... Or maybe his partner was in that position

I'd say "why are these people shouting bad words at me and violently sitting in front of my car?"

Mesrine65

pablo128 wrote: »

There's a big difference too between a typical Irish protest, and the likes of a protest in France where they routinely burn anything in sight. Including trucks full of livestock.

Jesus she got shouted at. God love her.

The French know how to kick up a ruckus all right...

Social inequality/injustices were some of the reasons the French revolution kicked off, maybe Ireland could learn a thing or two from them.

JustTheOne

RayM wrote: »

If she was a senior member of a pro-austerity government, and she happened to be visiting an area badly affected by her government's policies, for a photo opportunity, I'd understand why people weren't happy to see her there, and why they might say bad words to her. Most of all though, I'd be thankful that she had so much Garda protection.

BS.

Thats not protesting.

RayM

JustTheOne wrote: »

BS.

Thats not protesting.

A sit-down protest isn't protesting?

JustTheOne

Mesrine65 wrote: »

The French know how to kick up a ruckus all right...

Social inequality/injustices were some of the reasons the French revolution kicked off, maybe Ireland could learn a thing or two from them.

Social inequality in Ireland?

Haha you are better looked after if you don't work than if you do in a lot of cases.

One of the most generous welfare systems in Europe.

20 billion a year.

Laughable.

Mesrine65

Now that's a protest...

JustTheOne

RayM wrote: »

A sit-down protest isn't protesting?

False imprisonment is not protesting.

No one has the right to take away someones freedom of movement because they don't agree with their beliefs or policies.

Mesrine65

JustTheOne wrote: »

Social inequality in Ireland?

Haha you are better looked after if you don't work than if you do in a lot of cases.

One of the most generous welfare systems in Europe.

20 billion a year.

Laughable.

Where did I say that?

I stated some of the reasons the French revolted...

Read it again dumb-ass while I laugh at you

JustTheOne

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Now that's a protest...

Ever wonder why it never got that bad here?

Because it isn't that bad here and people know it deep down.

The rent a mob crowd will always turn up anywhere to cause a bit of trouble.

Mesrine65

JustTheOne wrote: »

You said its why the French kicked off and said Ireland could learn a thing or two from them?

Re., kicking off

RayM

JustTheOne wrote: »

False imprisonment is not protesting.

No one has the right to take away someones freedom of movement because they don't agree with their beliefs or policies.

A sit-down protest is not false imprisonment. If the Gardai had felt at the time that such a serious crime had been committed, you can be sure that skulls would have been cracked (they've done it for less). The 'false imprisonment' narrative was concocted after the event.

JustTheOne

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Re., kicking off

Why bring in social inequalities to the post then?

Why not just say the French know how to protest.

You were trying to say Ireland suffers the same inequalities as France.

KomradeBishop

If people think something was illegal - and I'm not agreeing that anything illegal happened, haven't really followed the story - then that doesn't magically make it 'not a protest'. There are a lot of illegal forms of protest - many of which are still legitimate forms of protest.

From what I can see, nobody has been convicted of anything so far - innocent until proven guilty applies.

Bulbous Salutation

Mesrine65 wrote: »

The French know how to kick up a ruckus all right...

Social inequality/injustices were some of the reasons the French revolution kicked off, maybe Ireland could learn a thing or two from them.

You live in one of the most peaceful and prosperous countries in the world and you are waffling on about a revolution. Utterly deluded.

The reason protest is frowned on here in Ireland is that sinister elements of the far-left and Republicans hijack them for their own purposes. Funnily enough, those of us who aren't lunatic lefties with a bloodlust fetish find them less than wholesome company for protesting with.

Is someone telling porkies? "A statement from Dublin City Council had said that men in balaclavas threatened to "burn out" the machinery of Western Systems, based in Tyrone, unless they returned to the North and the men also allegedly threatened their security staff.

But the construction company has denied making this statement and the security company CK Security also denied any intimidation took place."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1218/755059-modular-housing-delayed/

pablo128

JustTheOne wrote: »

False imprisonment is not protesting.

No one has the right to take away someones freedom of movement because they don't agree with their beliefs or policies.

She could quite easily have exited the car, walked to a nearby bus stop, and took a Double decker to the city centre. Top deck, down the back, and maybe interact with some of the general public who she presides over.

handlemaster

RayM wrote: »

I'd say "why are these people shouting bad words at me and violently sitting in front of my car?"

Im sure you would and then start having a sing song and a gig while your at it.

Azalea

RayM wrote: »

Blocking her car, whilst surrounded by Gardai (who, as we've seen from other protests, wouldn't hesitate to engage in highly thuggish behaviour against peaceful protesters), was an angry response to a pro-austerity politician rolling up in her ministerial Merc for a photo opportunity. The whole thing was completely overblown for political gain, and it certainly didn't amount to 'false imprisonment'.

Actually it met all the legal criteria for false imprisonment - it was completely uncalled for imo.

I would have been far more sympathetic to protestors that are more forceful one time but not so much these days. I find them just aggressive with a massive sense of entitlement. Eirigi are repugnant in my opinion.

Totally support peaceful protest though.

Flint Fredstone

There's plans for modular housing near me. 50 homes at a cost of approx €100,000 each.
There's blocks of empty apartments 5 minutes walk from the proposed site, not to mention the huge amount of vacant houses around the town.
There's absolutely no need for temporary housing in this country when there is so many vacant houses but someone would miss out on getting their pockets lined for brokering a deal.....

pablo128

Azalea wrote: »

Actually it met all the legal criteria for false imprisonment - it was completely uncalled for imo.

I would have been far more sympathetic to protestors that are more forceful one time but not so much these days. I find them just aggressive with a massive sense of entitlement. Eirigi are repugnant in my opinion.

Totally support peaceful protest though.

Was she prevented from leaving the car and walking away? There were plenty of Gardai present, don't forget.

RayM

Azalea wrote: »

Actually it met all the legal criteria for false imprisonment - it was completely uncalled for imo.

It will be very difficult for the state to prove (in accordance with the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act) that those charged knowingly intended to detain her in the car - especially with so many Gardai present (who could have removed the sit-down protesters, but chose not to).

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

There's plans for modular housing near me. 50 homes at a cost of approx €100,000 each.
There's blocks of empty apartments 5 minutes walk from the proposed site, not to mention the huge amount of vacant houses around the town.
There's absolutely no need for temporary housing in this country when there is so many vacant houses but someone would miss out on getting their pockets lined for brokering a deal.....

But, who owns those vacant houses? You can't just walk in and take over someone elses property.

gctest50

"Peaceful protesters" need this yoke, peaceful and harmless

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

Is someone telling porkies? "A statement from Dublin City Council had said that men in balaclavas threatened to "burn out" the machinery of Western Systems, based in Tyrone, unless they returned to the North and the men also allegedly threatened their security staff.

But the construction company has denied making this statement and the security company CK Security also denied any intimidation took place."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1218/755059-modular-housing-delayed/

The Indo making up stories about protesters?

I'm shocked. Shocked I tells ya!

Well not that shocked

Flint Fredstone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But, who owns those vacant houses? You can't just walk in and take over someone elses property.

Why not spend the money on purchasing those actual houses that are already there instead of turning an area into a ghetto with temporary housing that's not even all that cheap anyway?