Would you/are you embarrassed to live in a council house?

Celtickate

I am. I grew up in one and it was always embarrassing to admit where I live.
The area has a reputation of being full of scumbags, thugs, teenage pregnancies and so on.
It make me feel embarrassed because not everyone is like that and you're just stereotyped.

What about you?

Wanderer78

Very proud

athtrasna

Mod warning

This thread has the potential to go off track. This is the one and only warning to abide by the charter, avoid sweeping generalisations and stereotypes and turning it into an anti social housing/tenant rant.

The thread will remain open for as long as this is heeded.

Thanks.

dmc17

If it was a lifestyle choice then yes, otherwise no.

Graces7

No. I lived a while in a council flat. It is how you live not where you live.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Celtickate wrote: »

I am. I grew up in one and it was always embarrassing to admit where I live.
The area has a reputation of being full of scumbags, thugs, teenage pregnancies and so on.
It make me feel embarrassed because not everyone is like that and you're just stereotyped.

What about you?

I don't think it is a matter of being "embarrassed" or "proud" of growing up in a council house per se, but rather how one ultimately turns out in life.

If you are saying you grew up in an area full of scumbags etc, then that suggests you might not have had the same opportunities as someone growing up in an upper middle class area. If you feel you have have done well in life,
then yes, you should be very proud - you've managed to succeed when the odds may not necessarily have been in your favour. That's how the social welfare net should work.

But being proud to merely have secured a free house? That's not right.

jam_mac_jam

Nobody should be ashamed of where they come from, people are all different and I wouldn't judge anyone just because they come from or live in a council house. There are loads of reasons people might have less money,none of which are my business.

kellyshell

Nope........grew up in flats, most of my cousins did also and we all turned out fine. One or two bad apples but that's families in general. To be honest I'm quite proud I am from flats and am "working class", there was always a sense of community and everyone looked out for each other, for the most part. I sound like I'm 90, I am 32.

magicmushroom

I grew up in a council house, on a terrible estate in England. It was known for being awful and if you wouldn't readily admit you were from there.

Our house was lovely, my Mum and Dad were always extremely house proud but I was still very embarrassed of where I live.
My school had 2 entrances to the playground - one side came from the 'posh' side of the area, all big privately owned house. And the other entrance was from the 'rough' side. It was horrible saying goodbye to all my friends after school and them all going off home through the other gates.

(The school wasn't purposely built this way, we weren't sectioned off for being from where we were lol)

Even now I'm embarrassed to admit where I grew up. I feel bad fro my Mum and Dad because they had a beautiful big house that they lost in the 80's recession so I can only imagine how they felt having to move into that house.

Just to add, after reading Kellyshell's post I also had a great community around me despite the rough area. Everyone was in out of each others houses, I've never known that kind of community spirit in any private estates I've lived in since.

smarty_mcfly

growing up I lived in a Council estate and it had it's share of scumbags but they got older and calmed down or moved away. My parents are still living there but it's lost it's bad reputation along the way

smarty_mcfly

growing up I lived in a Council estate and it had it's share of scumbags but they got older and calmed down or moved away. My parents are still living there but it's lost it's bad reputation along the way. If safety isn't an issue then I wouldn't mind living in a council estate today.

Gumbo

Not embarrassed at all.
Grew up in Finglas West, drove motorbikes around the fields and dunsink dump. Drank on street corners different times!

Became a draughtsman, studied structural engineering and more recently fire engineering.

Designed a safe room / bunker for the president of our little country, so yes, I'm quite proud of my upbringing and location.

Isaiah

I grew up in council areas in Coolock.

Was a bit of a tear away in my teenage years. The rocker sort not the Skanger sort. But did my share of drinking in feilds and noisy parties.

I now live in a gated estate in leafy West London on a 6 figure salary. Put myself through college and education and got the hell out when I could. Never ashamed to admit it though, many people in my age bracket grew up in council areas, including the majority of my management and peers in work.

I know many wonderful people who lived and still live in council areas. Not all people who live in there areas are skangers, only the vocal minority who give others a bad name.

It's not where you come from it's where you're going.

Stealthfins

I've an uncle living in a council house over looking where the dingle peninsula meets the ocean.
A beautiful 3 bed house.
Some people have all the luck.
They actually built them a house on their own land.
Happy days

eviltwin

I grew up in a middle class area and bought a former council house in a working class suburb. I love it there and have no shame or embarrassment. I'm not a stereotype but if people want to label me based solely on where I live that says more about them. There are wasters around my area but also some of the best people I've ever met are here too.

Isaiah

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

But being proud to merely have secured a free house? That's not right.

It's not free you pay rent. A fixed percentage of your income.

For example a person on 188 a week might pay 45 euros a week rent.

No different than a person on 1000 a week paying 300 a week rent in the private sector.

SlinkyL

Isaiah wrote: »

It's not free you pay rent. A fixed percentage of your income.

For example a person on 188 a week might pay 45 euros a week rent.

No different than a person on 1000 a week paying 300 a week rent.

good point well made, council tenants do pay rent and it goes back to the council to be reinvested rather than to private landlords as per the rent allowance or even worse - massive investment companies as is happening now with NAMA.

I grew up in a council estate, went to college and got a degree, I'm a teacher now and bought an ex-corporation house in an old part of dublin. No shame about where I grew up or where I live now. I do find it very irksome to say the least however that there is a perception and hate towards people who need to avail of social housing.
Much of this is media perpetuated and is very damaging to society as a whole - where do we want our taxes to go if not to help the more vunerable in society, be there need in health, education or housing?? We seem to take greater issue with directing our tax money towards housing our citizens (who do pay rent as mentioned previously) than we do with bailing the wealthiest non-citizens, i.e., banks.
It is not social housing (or lack of it) or welfare recipients that is crippling our society but rather tax avoidance schemes, fraud, failed banks etc..

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/colette-browne/emphasis-on-social-welfare-fraud-ignoring-issue-of-tax-evasion-198781.html

So be proud of where you are from and the type of society it represents.. it's a pity social housing is stigmatised and has fallen off the political agenda. The house I live in now was built in 1934 with pride by the government of the day who priortised housing, had a building department with actual employed tradesmen and housed those who hitherto had lived in tenements.

intheclouds

Ive no problem with council housing or those who live in it - if they need to avail of it.

However, I disagree with the concept of the council house being for life. I have a friend on an 80k salary who is living in a council house that was allotted to her when she was on a much lower wage. She could easily afford to put a roof over her own head now but chooses to stay where she is because the rent is so much lower than it would be in the private sector. She drives a car worth 30k+. She can afford it because her rent is so low. So the tax payer is subsidising her lifestyle.

Wanderer78

intheclouds wrote: »

Ive no problem with council housing or those who live in it - if they need to avail of it.

However, I disagree with the concept of the council house being for life. I have a friend on an 80k salary who is living in a council house that was allotted to her when she was on a much lower wage. She could easily afford to put a roof over her own head now but chooses to stay where she is because the rent is so much lower than it would be in the private sector. She drives a car worth 30k+. She can afford it because her rent is so low. So the tax payer is subsidising her lifestyle.

is the problem with her or the system?

MayoAreMagic

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is the problem with her or the system?

Both I would imagine. The system was naively designed and she is choosing to abuse it.

intheclouds

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is the problem with her or the system?

Probably both tbh.

I can understand why she stays there, she often says that if she lost her job her rent would be adjusted accordingly, that if she has a problem the council are a great landlord etc....

The only point I am making is that she doesnt have a financial need to stay there and a consequence of that is (a) people who do have a financial need for housing are still on lists and (b) taxpayers are funding her lifestyle.

Stealthfins

Stealthfins wrote:

I've an uncle living in a council house over looking where the dingle peninsula meets the ocean. A beautiful 3 bed former. Some people have all the luck. They actually built them a house on their own land. Happy days

intheclouds wrote:

However, I disagree with the concept of the council house being for life. I have a friend on an 80k salary who is living in a council house that was allotted to her when she was on a much lower wage. She could easily afford to put a roof over her own head now but chooses to stay where she is because the rent is so much lower than it would be in the private sector. She drives a car worth 30k+. She can afford it because her rent is so low. So the tax payer is subsidising her lifestyle.

Isn't she entitled to live where she likes.

Luckily for her she's not buying into keeping up with the Jones's.

Isaiah

intheclouds wrote: »

Ive no problem with council housing or those who live in it - if they need to avail of it.

However, I disagree with the concept of the council house being for life. I have a friend on an 80k salary who is living in a council house that was allotted to her when she was on a much lower wage. She could easily afford to put a roof over her own head now but chooses to stay where she is because the rent is so much lower than it would be in the private sector. She drives a car worth 30k+. She can afford it because her rent is so low. So the tax payer is subsidising her lifestyle.

I agree with this.

When I lived in a council flat in college (fetac) it was a lifesaver as there was no way I could afford private rent (in my mid 20's at the time).

When I started in my first decent paid job and I could afford modest private rent I moved out to free up the place for someone who needs it.

This is how it should work for people of working age.

mahoganygas

I grew up on a council estate. Some of my neighbours were drug dealers, murderers, prostitutes, rapists, junkies.

Growing up was not easy. I could either play with my friends on the road or keep away from them. I stayed in, became a bit of a loner and didn't fit in with the cool kids in school. Turns out the cool kids were just wasters and ended up becoming drug dealers, junkies etc.

I grew up, went to college, luckily got a great job and moved away from the area. In college and work I'm often the butt of jokes because of where I grew up. I take it on the chin and give as much stick back to the 'privileged'.

It's all a bit of fun, but it does make me feel proud of living on a council estate. Not so much because of where I'm from, but because I adapted and tried to improve my lot.

Most of my neighbours did the same. The wasters are still wasters. And their kids are now growing up doing the exact same.

eviltwin

There are plenty of people in council housing estates who have bought their home or are renting privately. There is no way of knowing who pays what or how they got their house. The problem is when people make assumptions, you live on a council estate ergo you are a scrounger on welfare.

Isaiah

mahoganygas wrote: »

I grew up on a council estate. Some of my neighbours were drug dealers, murderers, prostitutes, rapists, junkies.

Growing up was not easy. I could either play with my friends on the road or keep away from them. I stayed in, became a bit of a loner and didn't fit in with the cool kids in school. Turns out the cool kids were just wasters and ended up becoming drug dealers, junkies etc.

I grew up, went to college, luckily got a great job and moved away from the area. In college and work I'm often the butt of jokes because of where I grew up. I take it on the chin and give as much stick back to the 'privileged'.

It's all a bit of fun, but it does make me feel proud of living on a council estate. Not so much because of where I'm from, but because I adapted and tried to improve my lot.

Most of my neighbours did the same. The wasters are still wasters. And their kids are now growing up doing the exact same.

I used to sometimes get some snide comments from people from affluent backgrounds when I worked in Ireland about being from the Northside, or Coolock etc..

However when I moved to London I found that people are much more respectful of peoples differences and backgrounds here.

My grandfather used to say "the worst place to be Irish is in Ireland", I have certainly noticed this. Many Irish treat each other with disdain and are generally begrudgers. As a proud Irish man it pains me to say it but it's true in general.

intheclouds

eviltwin wrote: »

There are plenty of people in council housing estates who have bought their home or are renting privately. There is no way of knowing who pays what or how they got their house. The problem is when people make assumptions, you live on a council estate ergo you are a scrounger on welfare.

The person I am discussing is in a council house renting from the council. Its quite a new road she lives on and 20 of the 23 houses on it are actually breaking the rules one way or another (having a partner live there undeclared, running a business from the property, gone to Australia and renting the property out privately etc...). its fairly endemic.

El_Dangeroso

Isaiah wrote: »

It's not free you pay rent. A fixed percentage of your income.

For example a person on 188 a week might pay 45 euros a week rent.

No different than a person on 1000 a week paying 300 a week rent in the private sector.

Yes except when you earn a lot more then it doesn't scale properly at all.

I know someone who earns 40K paying 300 a month for a 3 bed house, that's not fair or right, once you go above a certain threshold you should not be allowed to retain a council house.

Isaiah

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes except when you earn a lot more then it doesn't scale properly at all.

I know someone who earns 40K paying 300 a month for a 3 bed house, that's not fair or right, once you go above a certain threshold you should not be allowed to retain a council house.

I agree with this. When you reach a certain level then you should be given a deadline to move to a private rental.

intheclouds

Isaiah wrote: »

I agree with this. When you reach a certain level then you should be given a deadline to move to a private rental.

OR the council rent should match private rent in the area and the money used to provide more council housing.

Myrddin

Celtickate wrote: »

I am. I grew up in one and it was always embarrassing to admit where I live.
The area has a reputation of being full of scumbags, thugs, teenage pregnancies and so on.
It make me feel embarrassed because not everyone is like that and you're just stereotyped.

What about you?

If someone wants to stereotype you because of where you live, that says more about them than it does about you. I don't play the 'class' game, because it's all nonsense. Some of the nicest people I've ever met have come from what some consider 'rough' or undesirable areas, while I've met some utter horrid folks from so called 'nice' areas. A postcode doesn't define a person, take pride in who your are and let your own actions define you.

Reputable Rog

Circumstance is circumstance, why be embarrassed about growing up or living in a council estate ?
At least you can be assured that for the large part your home has been built to a much higher standard than most privately built developments in this country.

techdiver

I grew up in a council estate for the first 12 years of my life. Whilst I would not like to ever live there again, I wear it as a badge of honour somewhat as I came from there to Third Level Education and now, many years down the line have a good job and am living in a "nice part of town".

I never hide this fact and will regularly tell people about it. I'm well balanced though, I have a chip on both shoulders.

Bongalongherb

I lived in a council house for 14 years growing up and I was never embarrassed, and am still not embarrassed to admit it. It was one hell of a rough place though but lived through it reasonably well because there were a lot of decent folk there as well. It was in Darndale of all lovely places. Never be embarrassed in regards to where you live, at least folk have a roof over their head as it could be worse.

Isaiah

MayBea wrote: »

I was talking to a nurse in a hospital recently, she mentioned her rent (she lives in a 2-bed council flat in SCD with her child) is 60 euro a week whereas her salary is 45k. I understand the rent is close to being 10% of the this person's total income.

This is where the system fails and is being exploited.

I believe the rent is 17% of your income in a council house. However it's capped at 400 per month last time I checked.

A working person on 45k does not need social housing.

fussyonion

I grew up in a council house and I never felt embarrassed to admit I lived in one.

I never had any insecurities about it, even as a kid and it's only now I'm an adult and living in a council home...it's other people's attitudes that make me feel embarrassed.

I never felt like this before; I never knew it was something I should feel awkward about but listening to others...well it does make me feel down at times.

intheclouds

fussyonion wrote: »

I grew up in a council house and I never felt embarrassed to admit I lived in one.

I never had any insecurities about it, even as a kid and it's only now I'm an adult and living in a council home...it's other people's attitudes that make me feel embarrassed.

I never felt like this before; I never knew it was something I should feel awkward about but listening to others...well it does make me feel down at times.

If you are living there because you have a financial need then whats the problem?

If you dont have a financial need then why do you live there?

Bongalongherb

There is more important things to be thinking of and doing in life than worry about begrudgers, let them moan on as they are just simple folk.

MayoAreMagic

Bongalongherb wrote: »

There is more important things to be thinking of and doing in life than worry about begrudgers, let them moan on as they are just simple folk.

Not when those 'begrudgers' are the people who are paying the money you should be paying... That is like saying get a loan off someone, refuse to pay it back and call them a begrudger when they take issue with your behaviour.

There are more important things to do in life than a lot of things, like pay tax... If everyone took that approach there would be no council house.

karenalot

<MOD SNIP >

I am the opposite of the council house scenario. I grew up in what was considered the poshest estate of our area and people used to judge me for that. I used to hate saying where I lived. Everyone thought I would be a snob or drove around in a Bentley, when the reality was I just had a couple of extra bedrooms than them. Most of my friends were from council estates and I used to be envious of their areas. Everyone stopped to talk to you, they all hung around in each others houses and the families were generally way more craic than any of the people you would meet in my estate.

The Student

Social housing exists for a reason, to house those who can't afford to house themselves. Some council estates have a bad reputation for a reason. it is a tiny minority of individuals who are responsible for this reputation.

The system does need to change if those who can afford to house themselves choose not too. Equally importantly is that those responsible for causing the bad reputation of an area should be held accountable. If those responsible were dealt with the bad reputation would disappear over time.

The majority of people in council estates are the nicest most down to earth people you will ever meet. Unfortunately there is a stereo type associated to an area which in the main is not what the majority of the people are like.

But peoples perception of an area in the main is based on media and how the area looks itself. Good news rarely sells newspapers. A clean area gives a better impression that an unkept area with horse's roaming on green fields.

Graces7

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Nobody should be ashamed of where they come from, people are all different and I wouldn't judge anyone just because they come from or live in a council house. There are loads of reasons people might have less money,none of which are my business.

I grew up in the north of the UK where council estates are huge/. Many of my schoolfriends lived there and later uni mates. Just a house is all... I was always intrigued by the size of the estates.

Isaiah

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

That's a silly statement. Of course everyone is entitled to live where they like. As long as they pay for it.

If you read the thread you will know that I said the exact same thing a few posts ago so the silly statement remark is uncalled for.

Isaiah

Graces7 wrote: »

I would hate to live in either of those places. And people choose when they can. I chose this house and had and have the right to do that.

You don't have a right to live where you want. For example you cannot live in somewhere you cannot afford.

You seem to be confusing a 'right' (which is a free entitlement) with a purchase, which was a private agreement between the buyer and seller. Not a right.

Wanderer78

i find it very odd that some folk here seem to think they will avoid sudden illness, sudden unemployed or god forbid they got old and had to retire, with responses regarding social welfare payments!

Irishcrx

I grew up a bit all over the place , My mother in from Coolock and my father from Finglas. Didn't know my Dad until I was 21 and my mother was an alcoholic but have lived in Ballymun , Coolock and Finglas at various points. Very proud to be who I am and where I'm from , was never bothered by it and it never held me back in my career. It's not where your from but who you are and have become IMO.

Still live on the Northside , bought a house there and am raising my family there , have a very good job. Even though I live Northside and always will , I've worked on the southside for the left 12 years the very odd time you get people who may pass remark on it but I pay no attention to twats like that commenting on an accent, mine isn't even very strong.

The only thing that annoyed me growing up wasn't the area , it was the constant murmurs from people of 'Oh the poor lad' 'he's doomed in life' ' I wonder if he'll end up like his mother' the same people who now murmur that they had some part to play in all that not happening to me and me making a life for myself.

They didn't...I made it myself because I was on my own from day one.

I grew up my whole life in council estates, for years in flats then later in a house.
I'm very proud of where I came from.
I have always found people from council areas to be more down to earth, honest and real than people from ' posher' areas.

Where I work, there's a lot of people prejudiced against corporation areas & people from ' disadvantaged ' areas. I like to let people rant on and on sometimes, wait until they finsh then tell them my background.

intheclouds

bubblypop wrote: »

I have always found people from council areas to be more down to earth, honest and real than people from ' posher' areas.

Id say its normal to feel more at home and perceive people as more "real" if you are mixing with people from the background as yourself. You would just relate to them more easily.

My own experience would be that there are down to earth, honest and real people from all social classes and that social class is no more an indicator of being dishonest or not down to earth than any other categorisation.

I never really understood the concept of being proud of where you came from - its a complete accident of birth, its not an achievement of any kind? Thats like saying you are proud of having blue eyes.

shugy

Celtickate wrote: »

I am. I grew up in one and it was always embarrassing to admit where I live.
The area has a reputation of being full of scumbags, thugs, teenage pregnancies and so on.
It make me feel embarrassed because not everyone is like that and you're just stereotyped.

What about you?

You miss or misses are whats wrong with this country and the world today. I could go into one here at how fecking stupid your post is but i tihnk youll come to realize that yourself one day.

techdiver

bubblypop wrote: »

I have always found people from council areas to be more down to earth, honest and real than people from ' posher' areas..

Having lived on both sides of the Fence, I find Ireland to be a very "classless" society when compared to (albeit my little direct understanding) of places like the UK and US.

There are some prejudice, but I would not buy into the old "Salt of the Earth" nonsense. There are good and bad eggs in all walks of life and people will use confirmation bias to cloud their real world view.

esforum

as a baby we started in a council estate. Right side neighbour was a hooker, left was an abandoned (called prisoners at the time) wife as hubby was often locked up.

Father worked his ass off, they both did without luxeries and the house, car and area improved over the years until eventually they got into a position where dad could afford to actually take his days off and mam could afford a decent little second hand car and stop doing odd jobs on the side. They both retired this year.

I am tremendously thankful and proud of how hard my parents worked for myself, sister and brother and not one bit ashamed of where they started.