Granny cable

mylesm

HI

As I said in other posts I am close to ordering a 2016 SV with Cold Pack but when talking to dealer I couldnt believe the Granny Cable Cost 800Euro do any of the Experts here know of a cheaper source for a granny cable

mylesm

mr.dunkey

mylesm wrote: »

HI

As I said in other posts I am close to ordering a 2016 SV with Cold Pack but when talking to dealer I couldnt believe the Granny Cable Cost 800Euro do any of the Experts here know of a cheaper source for a granny cable

mylesm

An Irish EVstore has them selling them is http://www.theevcompany.com
You can buy from uk but cost mad money

It's the 10 amp you want with a normal 3 pin plug.

Nissan are ticking the Mick with the cost of that.

I might get myself one next year just in case the home charge point packed in. It would be handy to have a generator also in case the leccy went !

BoatMad

Given there's about 20 quids worth of components in an evse , it's a nuts price

cros13

You can just build your own fairly cheap.

mylesm

cros13 wrote: »

You can just build your own fairly cheap.

Whats fairly cheap do you have a circuit diagram I am an Electrican no problem making it just never even saw one this is my first venture with an EV

cros13

mylesm wrote: »

Whats fairly cheap do you have a circuit diagram I am an Electrican no problem making it just never even saw one this is my first venture with an EV

There are a couple of projects:

http://www.openevse.com/
http://www.smartevse.nl/

You can pop the EVSE into a portable waterproof enclosure. I built from an OpenEVSE kit.
In my case I made a few cables with IEC and various other plugs on one end and an IP68 rated 32A three-pole coupler on the other.

I think BoatMad used SmartEVSE as the basis for his with an Atmel controller?

Fastpud

What was the final cost of making your own compared to the very expensive after market ones which come in around 300

Pity they don't have a 30 amp continuous or something rather than a more expensive 40 amp continuous.

What's the chances of getting stung at customs ?

I was thinking of building one from Open EVSE myself, probably the 50 amp.

simdan

There's a few leaf owners at work. We all have granny cables as there's two chargers at work and one of them is a socket. We bought them on eBay for 220pounds, they were used from Nissan dealers so we're basically perfect apart from the odd scuff. Its a lot I suppose but found them to sometimes be a life saver.

cros13

Fastpud wrote: »

What was the final cost of making your own compared to the very expensive after market ones which come in around 300

'bout €200 in my case. But I bought a kit and added wifi and a couple of addons. I also threw away the contactor from the kit and replaced it with a three phase equivalent.

Chrischarger

You'll probably see the price of Granny can cables come down in the middle of 2016. Chinese suppliers haven't been able to get CE certification yet according to sources,even though they make and sell them.

feichin

I was reading a UK EV site earlier and from what I could make out it seemed to imply that a granny leak would come as standard with a 30 Kw Leaf. Is this correct and does the same apply here in Ireland?
Also, another question if I may, and please correct me if I'm completely loosing the plot.
The 6.6 charger charges twice as fast from the "slow" public chargers as the 3.3 so, is the same true of a home charger?
Oh, and one last question, what length is the charging lead that comes with the Leaf?
Many thanks

The 6.6 kW charges twice as fast but the home charge point would need to be rated for 32 amps, the ESB will only install the 16 amp but you can always upgrade yourself. Is is what I will be doing in 2016. Sometimes charging from home twice as fast will be very convenient for me.

The charging lead for the leaf is 5 meters.

The granny cable came with U.K leafs but not with Irish leafs, however Irish leafs cable with a charging lead to connect to the home charge point and public standard street points, they didn't get this in the u.k as standard.

The ESB deemed the granny cable unsafe for the majority of Irish sockets and so convinced Nissan Ireland not to supply it, now I don't know if the granny cable is included from Nissan Motor Co or whether Nissan Ireland or Nissan U.K have to purchase it separately.

heliguyheliguy

Here is a link to my granny cable build with the prices and suppliers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1602716789969603/permalink/1631880817053200/

BoatMad

The ESB deemed the granny cable unsafe for the majority of Irish sockets and so convinced Nissan Ireland not to supply it, now I don't know if the granny cable is included from Nissan Motor Co or whether Nissan Ireland or Nissan U.K have to purchase

What. Nonsense , given they can be freely purchased.

It was just a Nissan Ireland options decision

It's a 10 amp connection well under a domestic socket rating and less then a three bar electric Fire

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

What. Nonsense , given they can be freely purchased.

It was just a Nissan Ireland options decision

It's a 10 amp connection well under a domestic socket rating and less then a three bar electric Fire

Yes we all know it's nonsense, but the ESB had said that the continuous 10 amp draw for anything up to 12 hrs could pose a problem if the wiring wasn't up to scratch and with dodgy cabling and diy jobs all over the place I think they thought it best not to supply the cable.

I don't know if Nissan Motor co of Japan supplied the portable EVSE or if Nissan Ireland had to purchase it separately, if it was supplied by Nissan motor Co then we got screwed, though we got the charge cable that wasn't supplied in the U.K costing over 200 Euro's, still a bit short of the 800 Nissan were charging for the 10 amp EVSE.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes we all know it's nonsense, but the ESB had said that the continuous 10 amp draw for anything up to 12 hrs could pose a problem if the wiring wasn't up to scratch and with dodgy cabling and diy jobs all over the place I think they thought it best not to supply the cable.

I don't know if Nissan Motor co of Japan supplied the portable EVSE or if Nissan Ireland had to purchase it separately, if it was supplied by Nissan motor Co then we got screwed, though we got the charge cable that wasn't supplied in the U.K costing over 200 Euro's, still a bit short of the 800 Nissan were charging for the 10 amp EVSE.

This is pure fantasy, The ESB has no effective say on the standard to which houses are wired, thats a function of the various standards bodies in ireland

secondly , all the houses in the UK must be fine so .... ( not )

My dealer explained that the consistent use of a type 2 socket in Ireland, made it sensible to offer that cable over the granny. to include both would have added cost unnecessarily , especially with the free EVSE install which is a type 2

The ESB had no view one way or the other and the contention you make has no basis in technical fact

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

This is pure fantasy, The ESB has no effective say on the standard to which houses are wired, thats a function of the various standards bodies in ireland

secondly , all the houses in the UK must be fine so .... ( not )

My dealer explained that the consistent use of a type 2 socket in Ireland, made it sensible to offer that cable over the granny. to include both would have added cost unnecessarily , especially with the free EVSE install which is a type 2

The ESB had no view one way or the other and the contention you make has no basis in technical fact

Noting to do with me, just relaying back what I heard. I know it's all bull crap.

I just would like to know if the portable EVSE was included with the purchase of the car by Nissan Ireland from Nissan motor Co or did we get shafted ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Noting to do with me, just relaying back what I heard. I know it's all bull crap.

I just would like to know if the portable EVSE was included with the purchase of the car by Nissan Ireland from Nissan motor Co or did we get shafted ?

As I said , the dealer explained to me that Nissan Ireland in conjunction with the dealers drew up the standard equipment list.

Given the free evse and the large numbers of fast chargers that are all type 2 , it was decided to include the type 2 cable as standard and sell the granny as an option. This is the opposite to the uk I understand.

That's all there is to it.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

As I said , the dealer explained to me that Nissan Ireland in conjunction with the dealers drew up the standard equipment list.

Given the free evse and the large numbers of fast chargers that are all type 2 , it was decided to include the type 2 cable as standard and sell the granny as an option. This is the opposite to the uk I understand.

That's all there is to it.

No, what I am wondering is, if the portable EVSE was included with the Leaf by Nissan Motor Co in Japan ?

I know the exclusion of the portable EVSE was Nissan Irelands decision. They're the ones that were saying the BS story about the ESB not recommending it and I was thinking Nissan Ireland might have been trying to pull a fast one or else just to knock a few quid of the price of the car.

xband

Deleted User wrote: »

The 6.6 kW charges twice as fast but the home charge point would need to be rated for 32 amps, the ESB will only install the 16 amp but you can always upgrade yourself. Is is what I will be doing in 2016. Sometimes charging from home twice as fast will be very convenient for me.

The charging lead for the leaf is 5 meters.

The granny cable came with U.K leafs but not with Irish leafs, however Irish leafs cable with a charging lead to connect to the home charge point and public standard street points, they didn't get this in the u.k as standard.

The ESB deemed the granny cable unsafe for the majority of Irish sockets and so convinced Nissan Ireland not to supply it, now I don't know if the granny cable is included from Nissan Motor Co or whether Nissan Ireland or Nissan U.K have to purchase it separately.

The impression I'm getting is ESB simply does not like the 13amp plug approach at all.

There's an issue in general with those sockets overheating if they're drawing max load for extended periods of time. It's nothing to do with Irish sockets per se, just the whole BS1363 plug/socket system has some drawbacks at high loads.

UK/IRL sockets are designed so that contact is made only with the tips of the pins. This was to prevent people from being able to touch the pins. (They now have plastic sleeves over them too)

The approach for the German / French system used all over the continent is that they recessed the socket, so you can make use of the full pin surface (almost) and still not be able to touch the pins when the plug is being inserted.

The result of that is that the continental plugs can carry a much higher load as the surface area carrying the current between the pin and the receptacle is much higher than here.

So, basically you can usually draw 16amps on a continental socket without any fuss, where as you'd be a little wary of going much about 10amps on a UK/IRL socket.

Most appliances sold here that would have extended draws of current e.g. tumble dryers, tend to be capped at 10amps vs 16amps in Northern European countries other than here.

High loads for a short time don't really make much difference, it's more long sustained loads.

That being said, there are tons of plug-in 3000W heaters in use here all the time without any major issue, drawing close to 13amps all time time they're on.

The statement made further up about house wiring is nonsense. Irish house wiring tends to be as good / better than most of Europe. You'd regularly see socket on 10amp and even 6amp radials in older houses in France.

Where as here it's always either 16A (older) 20A (more modern) radials or 32A rings. There shouldn't really be any issue drawing 13amps for an extended period and if there was, the fuse or MCB (Circuit breaker) would trip out anyway.

*ANY* design of socket which has loose springs / contacts will overheat too. The type 2 socket / plug system is just a hell of a lot better designed than a BS1363 plug/socket and much more robust. It's very unlikely you'd have any issues with them.

Also, in Irish climate using domestic style plugs/sockets outdoors on a regular basis is a recipe for shocks / RCD trips. The climate's horrifically damp and they're not IP rated.

You're talking about a plug / socket system designed in the 1940s to handle electric toasters, hoovers and irons vs one that's modern and designed specifically for electric cars.

BoatMad

xband wrote: »

The impression I'm getting is ESB simply does not like the 13amp plug approach at all.

Given it supported its introduction , I see no written evidence to backk your claim , and today's standards are not set by the ESB.

There's an issue in general with those sockets overheating if they're drawing max load for extended periods of time. It's nothing to do with Irish sockets per se, just the whole BS1363 plug/socket system has some drawbacks at high loads.

UK/IRL sockets are designed so that contact
is made only with the tips of the pins. This was to prevent people from being able to touch the pins. (They now have plastic sleeves over them too)

The plug and socket are fully rated for continuous operation at 13 amps. The contact area of a BS1363 plug is superior to the standard schuko plug

The approach for the German / French system used all over the continent is that they recessed the socket, so you can make use of the full pin surface (almost) and still not be able to touch the pins when the plug is being inserted.

The result of that is that the continental plugs can carry a much higher load as the surface area carrying the current between the pin and the receptacle is much higher than here.

The engineering specs do not agree with your contention

So, basically you can usually draw 16amps on a continental socket without any fuss, where as you'd be a little wary of going much about 10amps on a UK/IRL socket.

The rated current in Ireland is 13 amps , the NISSAN EVSE granny cable is rated at 10 amps hence is not even stressing the 13 A plug

Most appliances sold here that would have extended draws of current e.g. tumble dryers, tend to be capped at 10amps vs 16amps in Northern European countries other than here.

See my comment re evse granny cable rating capacity

.........

That being said, there are tons of plug-in 3000W heaters in use here all the time without any major issue, drawing close to 13amps all time time they're on.

The statement made further up about house wiring is nonsense. Irish house wiring tends to be as good / better than most of Europe. You'd regularly see socket on 10amp and even 6amp radials in older houses in France.

Where as here it's always either 16A (older) 20A (more modern) radials or 32A rings. There shouldn't really be any issue drawing 13amps for an extended period and if there was, the fuse or MCB (Circuit breaker) would trip out anyway.

*ANY* design of socket which has loose springs / contacts will overheat too. The type 2 socket / plug system is just a hell of a lot better designed than a BS1363 plug/socket and much more robust. It's very unlikely you'd have any issues with them.

Also, in Irish climate using domestic style plugs/sockets outdoors on a regular basis is a recipe for shocks / RCD trips. The climate's horrifically damp and they're not IP rated.

You're talking about a plug / socket system designed in the 1940s to handle electric toasters, hoovers and irons vs one that's modern and designed specifically for electric cars.

Your mixing up all sorts of issues. A weather proof 13 amp external socket does not cause 30 mA RCD trips

Arguably the standard 16 A " blue commando" style socket used extensively outside isnt much better weather wise.

30 mA RCD trip current limits do not suffer from nusiance trips outside in Irish damp climate as the 100s of such installations in marinas everywhere will testify to. ( by definition Marinas are damp places !!!!! )


We are descending into tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. The Esb has no say in the availability of granny cables. ( that are available from Nissan and third party suppliers )

The decision was purely Nissan Ireland decision based on product option selection criteria

heliguyheliguy

I think it is also important to remember that a standard 13 amp outlet is rated at 13 amps continuous current, and is perfectly capable of supplying 13 amps.
The problems faced are with faulty or substandard equipment and with poor installation or maintenance.

The most common problems with standard sockets I have encountered are loose connections, ie. not properly secured at time of installation then leading to a loosening over time and hence overheating which further degrades the connection. (this happens I'm not blaming installers, think how much you would have to pay to have every connection checked with torque wrench)
Occasionally as with any product there could be a manufacturing fault; far less common with high quality products MK is an example of a reliable manufacturer.

The real issue lies in lack of maintenance, people in Ireland seem to think that once installed its fine until it stops working and don't want to spend money to fix something that is still working.
The number of times I have been asked to fix sockets that have obviously been over heating for years to the point the insulation and plastic parts of the socket all crumbling from heat damage.

If your having work done insist on quality parts it will cost extra but is worth it in the long run.

Another common issue IMO is the use of solid cores in house wiring they are fine and meet all the standards but are far less durable (and far less Costly) than stranded cabling, the solid core is much harder to get a good contact on and far more likely to work loose over time. This is cost prohibitive but if you can afford it insist on it.

If its getting warm there is something wrong stop using it and have it checked!
If it's getting hot there is something dangerously wrong do not use, isolate if possible (turn off the breaker) and have it checked immediately.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2B_AjtuEP_fSW1xV3k2SmNGNkk/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2B_AjtuEP_fejk2am1vTGJwVE0/view?usp=sharing

xband

Maintenance of systems is an issue everywhere. It's far from unique to Ireland.

I regularly come across prehistoric wiring in France and the US without earths, undersized circuits etc etc

Stranded cable is also much harder to terminate reliably and safely without using complicated fittings that ensure all strands are in contact. Part of the reason it's not used in fixed wiring.

A loop of solid core into a terminal is usually a more reliable setup in a system that isn't going to be moved around. They tend to avoid using stranded cable unless there's a need for movement or the cable is so thick it would be impractical to bend without standing.

The use of one terminal to hold two solid core wires is more the issue where someone loops in and out of a socket and doesn't twist the cables together or ensure they're very well seated.

The most common overheating issue is where the springs in the socket are loose. It means your plug isn't likely to make very good contact. Cheaper designs of UK spec socket have pretty bog standard springs. MK in particular is vastly superior in design.

The other big issue is the fuse holder. In a lot of rewirable plugs it is just a springy loop of brass. If that's not seated properly, deformed or the fuse isn't inserted just right, it will get very hot under sustained loads and won't blow as there's no over current passing through the fuse.

As for schuko's contact area, open a Schucko or French type socket sometime. The contact tubes are almost the length of the pin and start almost dangerously close to the open part of the socket. Power strips tend to take shortcuts with undersized Spring contacts.

All domestic plugs / sockets are pre WWII technology that were designed with that era's materials and safety requirements in mind.

If you were designing from scratch, you wouldn't be using our system, the US one or the continental European systems.

BS1363 isn't IP rated for outdoor use or industrial / rough use. It's just accepted because it's a legacy standard. The outdoor sockets are only IP rated when the plug is fully closed inside them, under sealed lid.

From ETCI website :

Q: Are there special plugs and sockets for outdoor installations and if so why?
A: Yes. We like most mainland Europe countries do not consider indoor plugs to be suitable for outdoor installations subject to weather and rough handling and so ordinary 13A sockets to I.S. 401 are not suitable for outdoor use. Like all socket outlets up to 32A, they should be protected by an RCD. The Rules require that outdoor sockets and industrial sockets comply with IS/EN60309 standard. In this system both the plug and socket are hard wearing and are deemed to be suitable for outdoor use. The single phase plug is coloured blue and the socket is inclined towards the ground to prevent the ingress of moisture. They may be more cumbersome than the flat pin plug system but they are safer.

The theatre and studio industry has moved away from using domestic type plugs (square or round pin) in lighting rigs for similar reasons. CEEform industrial plugs are rated for rough handling and there's no risk of someone fitting a brittle plug to a light fitting.

Getting shocked by handling a smashed plug was a serious issue in old setups.

I'm glad to see Ireland is pushing towards a sensible standard for EVs though. Domestic plugs/sockets are a poor and rather cheap and nasty solution.

heliguyheliguy

xband wrote: »

Stranded cable is also much harder to terminate reliably and safely without using complicated fittings that ensure all strands are in contact. Part of the reason it's not used in fixed wiring.

I'll preface by saying that this is personal experience and preference but there is nothing wrong with standard cabling.

I wonder when I say stranded are you thinking of the many annoying hair like strands found in flexible cables.

If that is so I would like to clarify that I am talking about the 5 or 7 strand cable often specified for use in commercial and industrial installations.
This cable is very easy to terminate reliably with nothing more than a good pliers. It also seats very well in common terminals; deforming to the shape of the terminal which increases the contact area between the cable and terminal and reduces the risk of loosening due to vibration.

sgalvin

I had one of the Fluence ze 3 pin 13 amp plug units for a week prior to get my home 16 amp unit.

I photod the nameplate and it was very clear as being 8 amps rate.

Can someone who has a Nissan Leaf occasional charger confirm what their nameplate says?

The 8 amp rate simply isn't high enough for practical use. It is only 1.8kw and would probably take 15 -16 hours for a full charge. 16 amps is a sensible figure for a full charge for family car charging overnight.

As there was an esb plan in place and the offer of free home chargers there was little need to provide these to all.

That being said I would like to have one in the same way as a spare tyre is useful but I agree €800 is silly.

What would have been useful to have a manual override on the cars to use a simple 16amp blue industrial plug on the car with a switch for 8, 10, and 16 amps. Cables would be cheap and easy and businesses could install these very cheaply.
The hazardous area ATEX versions of the Blue 16 amp even have a mechanical interlock to make you are plugged in prior to power turned on which is all the safety you need.

mr.dunkey

sgalvin wrote: »

I had one of the Fluence ze 3 pin 13 amp plug units for a week prior to get my home 16 amp unit.

I photod the nameplate and it was very clear as being 8 amps rate.

Can someone who has a Nissan Leaf occasional charger confirm what their nameplate says?

The 8 amp rate simply isn't high enough for practical use. It is only 1.8kw and would probably take 15 -16 hours for a full charge. 16 amps is a sensible figure for a full charge for family car charging overnight.

As there was an esb plan in place and the offer of free home chargers there was little need to provide these to all.

That being said I would like to have one in the same way as a spare tyre is useful but I agree €800 is silly.

What would have been useful to have a manual override on the cars to use a simple 16amp blue industrial plug on the car with a switch for 8, 10, and 16 amps. Cables would be cheap and easy and businesses could install these very cheaply.
The hazardous area ATEX versions of the Blue 16 amp even have a mechanical interlock to make you are plugged in prior to power turned on which is all the safety you need.

I have seen Fluence granny charging cables rated 8amps and some rated 10 amps. The 10 amps is fine but is so low so you can charge from your domestic circuits. The LEAF granny is rated 10 amps. You cab buy 16 amp granny cables with Cee plug fro Irish suppliers. You can also build your own evse unit with switchable power.

Why bother if you can install the proper EVSE at 16 or 32 amps ? It's always best to have a proper installation rather than using extension leads. In a garage plugged direct into a socket is a different matter. But I still wouldn't bother.

The granny cable is only meant as a backup or emergency, it's not designed as the primary means of charging.

heliguyheliguy

sgalvin wrote: »

I had one of the Fluence ze 3 pin 13 amp plug units for a week prior to get my home 16 amp unit.

I photod the nameplate and it was very clear as being 8 amps rate.

Can someone who has a Nissan Leaf occasional charger confirm what their nameplate says?

The 8 amp rate simply isn't high enough for practical use. It is only 1.8kw and would probably take 15 -16 hours for a full charge. 16 amps is a sensible figure for a full charge for family car charging overnight.

As there was an esb plan in place and the offer of free home chargers there was little need to provide these to all.

That being said I would like to have one in the same way as a spare tyre is useful but I agree €800 is silly.

What would have been useful to have a manual override on the cars to use a simple 16amp blue industrial plug on the car with a switch for 8, 10, and 16 amps. Cables would be cheap and easy and businesses could install these very cheaply.
The hazardous area ATEX versions of the Blue 16 amp even have a mechanical interlock to make you are plugged in prior to power turned on which is all the safety you need.

Build your own https://www.facebook.com/groups/1602716789969603/permalink/1631880817053200/

xband

It'd be handy if we'd access to 400V 3P power as easily as it is in the continent. Slightly different philosophy about load balancing is the only reason why we don't.

BoatMad

The ESB deemed the granny cable unsafe for the majority of Irish sockets and so convinced Nissan Ireland not to supply it, now I don't know if the granny cable is included from Nissan Motor Co or whether Nissan Ireland or Nissan U.K have to purchase i

This has been flatly denied by my dealer. The cable is available for purchase by every owner.

The decision was simply Nissan Ireland. It has to include one cable and it picked the type 2.

The granny cable is entirely safe in all normal Irish sockets

BoatMad

xband wrote: »

It'd be handy if we'd access to 400V 3P power as easily as it is in the continent. Slightly different philosophy about load balancing is the only reason why we don't.

Actually it stems back to cost decisions taken, with the setup of ardnacrusha.

Only certain parts of the continent have 3P domestic supplies , primarily parts of Germany

xband

BoatMad wrote: »

Actually it stems back to cost decisions taken, with the setup of ardnacrusha.

Only certain parts of the continent have 3P domestic supplies , primarily parts of Germany

It's actually fairly normal in France, Spain, Germany, Belgium .. Have lived in all of those.

Choice is either distribute the load by putting each house on a different phase, or distribute it circuit by circuit in the house.

In some regions it's difficult to get single phase beyond pretty tiny loads - like an entire supply being maxed out at 20Amps unless you go 3P.

EDF France still sell supplies as small as 3kVA!!
3,6,9,12,15,18. Many homes only have 6 to 9kVA available.

Most cookers are connected to 3P and plug in with a 5 pin domestic plug. you've also got "bi phase" where it only uses two of the three phases.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

This has been flatly denied by my dealer. The cable is available for purchase by every owner.

The decision was simply Nissan Ireland. It has to include one cable and it picked the type 2.

The granny cable is entirely safe in all normal Irish sockets

It's safe for safe installations it's not safe for botched jobs but I know the whole reason for not supplying the granny cable is BS.

The U.K got the granny cable and not the Type II cable for public charging so it's entirely plausible that Nissan Ireland decided the type II cable was the best choice for Irish Leaf owners and I doubt they were wrong, as I said, the Granny cable isn't supposed to be the primary means of charging and the dedicated EVSE is the proper means of charging. In reality most people will use the home charge point far more and it's far more practical.

BoatMad

xband wrote: »

It's actually fairly normal in France, Spain, Germany, Belgium .. Have lived in all of those.

Choice is either distribute the load by putting each house on a different phase, or distribute it circuit by circuit in the house.

In some regions it's difficult to get single phase beyond pretty tiny loads - like an entire supply being maxed out at 20Amps unless you go 3P.

EDF France still sell supplies as small as 3kVA!!
3,6,9,12,15,18. Many homes only have 6 to 9kVA available.

Most cookers are connected to 3P and plug in with a 5 pin domestic plug. you've also got "bi phase" where it only uses two of the three phases.

Yes , in itself , the mere existence of 3P does not indicate you have any more power then in Ireland's single phase.

PadelCreekMan

I have just purchased 2 yr old Nissan Leaf. It came with 2 cables. I have been using the Granny cable to charge the car. Its working fine.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't keep using it as my main overnight charger?

Nothing is warming up - even after 6 hours.

It would cost about €780 to install an external charging box and I would do this if it offers any improvement?

PadelCreekMan

I have just purchased 2 yr old Nissan Leaf. It came with 2 cables. I have been using the Granny cable to charge the car. Its working fine.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't keep using it as my main overnight charger?

Nothing is warming up - even after 6 hours.

It would cost about €780 to install an external charging box and I would do this if it offers any improvement?

Sure you can use it as much as you want but it's not the recommended permanent way to charge.

Did you get the 3.3 or 6.6 Kw charger leaf ? if you got the 6.6 then have a look out for 32 amp charge points, they're not really more expensive than the 16 amp, provided you have no heavy loads in the house you should be fine.

Charging off the granny cable is fine over night but if you need top ups during the day it will be a right pain in the ass.

Make sure you use a good quality extension lead and don't leave the sockets exposed to the elements and maybe buy one with an out door protected socket.

Installing the home charge point is an investment, it will pay back, imagine all the money saved on fuel ?

Someone here might be able to point you towards someone selling a charge point, find out what cable you need to use and run it yourself from your consumer unit to where the charge point is to be installed, this will save money.

PadelCreekMan

Thanks very much for prompt reply. I think its 3.3 but not sure how I find that out

PadelCreekMan

PadelCreekMan wrote: »

Thanks very much for prompt reply. I think its 3.3 but not sure how I find that out

Welcome, and congrats on your purchase . once you go Ev there's no going back.

If you cycle through the menu on the dash you should see estimated charge time and if it's got the 6.6 it will show time for 6.6 and 3.3 or if it has not got it it will only show the estimated charge time. The last 5% or so will take a pretty long time so if you don't need all the charge you can unplug at 90 or 95% or set the time to charge to 80% in the Navigation unit. Usually the charge will finish well before the estimated times.

Calahonda52

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure you can use it as much as you want but it's not the recommended permanent way to charge.

.

1: whats the issue here?

2 Any time estimates for granny cable charging?
want to use the night rate, so what should I use as an estimate:
mine is a 30kW battery

I want the car ready at 5:45 am and the night rate starts at 11pm so what % will I need the battery to be at to use the " be ready at" option on the timer and not start before 11pm.
Thanks as always

KCross

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: whats the issue here?

Its not bad for the car just slow and less efficient.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

2 Any time estimates for granny cable charging?
want to use the night rate, so what should I use as an estimate:
mine is a 30kW battery

I want the car ready at 5:45 am and the night rate starts at 11pm so what % will I need the battery to be at to use the " be ready at" option on the timer and not start before 11pm.
Thanks as always

The granny charger will deliver about 2kW's to the battery so in an hour you'll get 2kWh.

Therefore, from 0-100% on a 30kWh car(with 28kWh usable) will take 28/2=14hrs.

punisher5112

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: whats the issue here?

2 Any time estimates for granny cable charging?
want to use the night rate, so what should I use as an estimate:
mine is a 30kW battery

I want the car ready at 5:45 am and the night rate starts at 11pm so what % will I need the battery to be at to use the " be ready at" option on the timer and not start before 11pm.
Thanks as always

Must be the granny charger causing it so long for you to reply to a thread that's over a year old without an ounce of replies or posts.

goz83

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: whats the issue here?

2 Any time estimates for granny cable charging?
want to use the night rate, so what should I use as an estimate:
mine is a 30kW battery

I want the car ready at 5:45 am and the night rate starts at 11pm so what % will I need the battery to be at to use the " be ready at" option on the timer and not start before 11pm.
Thanks as always

OK, so I have just started studying engineering and maths is not my strong point, but I will give it a shot.

The 30kWh Leaf has ~28kWh available

The granny charger gives 3kWh of power per hour (based on a rounding down of 3120 watt hours).
13Amps X 240Volts = 3120watt hours, or 3.12kWh

So, assuming a linear charge rate, it would take just over 9 hours to charge from 0-100.

You are allowing the car 6 hours and 45 minutes to charge (night rate starting at 11pm), which would give you ~20kWh.

You need to be at ~32% to get to 100%.

grogi

goz83 wrote: »

OK, so I have just started studying engineering and maths is not my strong point, but I will give it a shot.

We are at 230V in here. But apart from that, you're spot on

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

The granny charger gives 3kWh of power per hour (based on a rounding down of 3120 watt hours).
13Amps X 240Volts = 3120watt hours, or 3.12kWh

The granny only pulls 10A (AFAIK). Pulling 13A for hours on end from a 13A socket would not be recommended.

And you then need to account for charger efficiency.

2kW is closer to what the battery will actually receive.

goz83 wrote: »

So, assuming a linear charge rate, it would take just over 9 hours to charge from 0-100.

14hrs is closer to the mark.

grogi

KCross wrote: »

The granny only pulls 10A (AFAIK). Pulling 13A for hours on end from a 13A socket would not be recommended.

I'm not an electricial, but why not? Even wires 2.5mm² can sustain more than 16A in all of the applications without reaching 70°C.

KCross

grogi wrote: »

I'm not an electricial, but why not? Even wires 2.5mm² can sustain more than 16A in all of the applications without reaching 70°C.

Technically it could be done but you are obviously running it at its very limit.

The fuse is 13A so you run a much higher risk of blowing the fuse if you have it designed to pull 13A as standard. A spike (probably on initial start) is all it would take to blow the fuse.

10A is what the granny is rated to run at.

goz83

KCross wrote: »

Technically it could be done but you are obviously running it at its very limit.

The fuse is 13A so you run a much higher risk of blowing the fuse if you have it designed to pull 13A as standard. A spike (probably on initial start) is all it would take to blow the fuse.

10A is what the granny is rated to run at.

That looks better. I was allowing for ~12Amps.

So 2kWh would be closer assuming a 15% efficiency loss.

14 hours to full charge, so the battery needs to be a little over 50%.

Calahonda52

grogi wrote: »

I'm not an electricial, but why not? Even wires 2.5mm² can sustain more than 16A in all of the applications without reaching 70°C.

Part of the problem is imperfect connections: back of socket, socket, plug etc


Thanks for the math guys: I had guessed 16 hours. for 100%