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Of course gaago should be allowed to continue for world wide viewers. Gaago is a good idea and I have no problem with the GAA raising revenue in this manner.
https://gaago.rte.ie/
That would contradict the wording of the motion0 -
Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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Of course gaago should be allowed to continue for world wide viewers. Gaago is a good idea and I have no problem with the GAA raising revenue in this manner.
https://gaago.rte.ie/
Why the big problem with Sky if you have no problem with GAA Go? Essentially the same thing, pay a subscription to watch the games.0 -
Why the big problem with Sky if you have no problem with GAA Go? Essentially the same thing, pay a subscription to watch the games.
The difference is territory.
GAAGo is not available in Ireland (or in the UK for Sky games) as the rights for coverage are already covered by TV stations.
But where no TV contract is in place GAAGO is available on a paid basis.
The problem people have is with having to pay within Ireland.
That being said I did not read the motion so I don't know if there is a conflict there.
The idea of free TV coverage within Ireland is fine, but it would not be feasible to force that policy on a world wide basis.0 -
Why the big problem with Sky if you have no problem with GAA Go? Essentially the same thing, pay a subscription to watch the games.
Not the same thing see the above post!The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.
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I don't think its feasible to force it here either, the GAA should be allowed be raise money any way they please. There is enough sport on FTA as it is. If people want to watch every possible game I think they should cough up the cash.0 -
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The canvassing against Gaa's Sky deal is starting early and I find it very shortsighted and unambitious. While I like to see as many games as possible on free to air tv, subscription channels do a far better job at promoting the games and getting them out to new audiences.
Anything that could potentially bring in extra revenue for the Gaa should be welcomed not avoided like the plague. The world is forever changing, there's a hell of a lot more competition from other sports out there these days and the Gaa should do their best to stay in the race, this isn't the 1970s or 1980s where there was basically nothing else to look at on a Sunday than Gaa on RTE!0 -
I'd remind the young and vociferous that until the 90s, despite there being no technical reasons for it, the only live games on TV were the all ireland semi finals and finals.Huntergonzo wrote: »<snip>Gaa should do their best to stay in the race, this isn't the 1970s or 1980s where there was basically nothing else to look at on a Sunday than Gaa on RTE!
This was to "protect the gate reciepts"
Now theres 40or so FTA and 13 or so Sky championship games, plus TG4 having many dozens of games over the year in league and club plus setanta having Saturday night league games
So from 6 live games --> 100+ FTA games and a couple of dozen pay TV games over the year
Again, to repeat the bleedin obvious, theres HEAPS of GAA on FTA TV over the year, and the only controversy over something like 60 or 70 pay TV games over the past 2 years was the quarter final, and that mainly from Donegal people, and that from a county that had no issues with their Ulster Semi Final c couple of months previously being on pay tv (and from the attendance, not all that many decided to go either despite it being only a tenner admission)0 -
Huntergonzo wrote: »The canvassing against Gaa's Sky deal is starting early and I find it very shortsighted and unambitious. While I like to see as many games as possible on free to air tv, subscription channels do a far better job at promoting the games and getting them out to new audiences.
Anything that could potentially bring in extra revenue for the Gaa should be welcomed not avoided like the plague. The world is forever changing, there's a hell of a lot more competition from other sports out there these days and the Gaa should do their best to stay in the race, this isn't the 1970s or 1980s where there was basically nothing else to look at on a Sunday than Gaa on RTE!
I agree with a lot of this in principle. Time and tide waits for no man and all that. But as to the highlighted bits, you have to look at the specifics of the deal & not just say that all progress is good, full stop.
1. Where is the new revenue? The old broadcasting deal before Sky came on board, brought in pretty much the same amount of revenue, as the new one with Sky. The GAA release their accounts every year. The total monies paid for broadcasting rights overall, is pretty much the same, as it was pre Sky.
So unless there is a substantial increase in revenue, I think questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping on Sky as a broadcast partner, especially when it is so unpopular amongst the grass roots of the organisation. I roll my eyes as much as the next person, at the "but what about the aul lad up the side of a mountain?" brigade. But they are still the grass roots of the organisation. They are its life blood & they deserve to have a voice at the table imo.
2. What are Sky doing to promote gaelic games, either here or the UK? Not much that I can see. Their viewing numbers are dropping yearly. After just a couple of years, I wouldn't expect people all across the UK, to be flocking in droves to participate in gaelic games, or to watch them. But considering Sky's very deep pockets & marketing ability, I would be expecting some sort of progress on that score. To date there is very little. So if marketing and promoting GAA games is a criteria, again, questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping Sky on.0 -
I agree with a lot of this in principle. Time and tide waits for no man and all that. But as to the highlighted bits, you have to look at the specifics of the deal & not just say that all progress is good, full stop.
1. Where is the new revenue? The old broadcasting deal before Sky came on board, brought in pretty much the same amount of revenue, as the new one with Sky. The GAA release their accounts every year. The total monies paid for broadcasting rights overall, is pretty much the same, as it was pre Sky.
So unless there is a substantial increase in revenue, I think questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping on Sky as a broadcast partner, especially when it is so unpopular amongst the grass roots of the organisation. I roll my eyes as much as the next person, at the "but what about the aul lad up the side of a mountain?" brigade. But they are still the grass roots of the organisation. They are its life blood & they deserve to have a voice at the table imo.
2. What are Sky doing to promote gaelic games, either here or the UK? Not much that I can see. Their viewing numbers are dropping yearly. After just a couple of years, I wouldn't expect people all across the UK, to be flocking in droves to participate in gaelic games, or to watch them. But considering Sky's very deep pockets & marketing ability, I would be expecting some sort of progress on that score. To date there is very little. So if marketing and promoting GAA games is a criteria, again, questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping Sky on.
With regard to all of that I think the Sky deal will not be renewed.
Sky are in it for subs, if they are not increaseing or at least holding on to subs during the EPL off season then its not in their interest to be paying for GAA.
The GAA are in it for market reach.
If its not reaching enough of the target market in the UK then you have to question is it viable.
And as others have said, if its not renewed it may not be replaced with an either.
The provincial games and QF that Sky had will go to RTE and other games will be dropped altogether.0 -
Unfortunately it is almost certain to get passed at congress and once again highlights the shortsightedness and pointlessness of congress whereby any real issues get brushed aside and never dealt with whereas populist issues like this will be front and centre and more than likely once again any potential progress in the GAA will be stifled.
The sky deal was very small and there weren't a huge amount of matches covered by it.It was doing no harm to the GAA having the matches on sky as it allowed club matches to be on Saturdays and not have a TV game on RTE clashing with them.Thse sky deal suited the hardcore neutral intercounty fans perfectly and allowed fans who didn't want to pay to watch sky to go to a club match on the day.
Where was the uproar when league matches started being shown on Setanta?
This sky situation is yet another example of people in this country wanting something for nothing.0 -
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All GAA Coverage should be FTA and Saturday night league games should be taken away from Setanta also. I have no problem with broadcasters showing these and Sky and Setanta can show them away which is especially great for expats in the UK but they should not have exclusivity in Ireland, let Sky and Setanta show all the GAA they want which is great but the exact same match should be carried by RTE or TG4 terrestrially and FTA so you don't have to pay a subscription to see it here.0
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Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »With regard to all of that I think the Sky deal will not be renewed.
Sky are in it for subs, if they are not increaseing or at least holding on to subs during the EPL off season then its not in their interest to be paying for GAA.
The GAA are in it for market reach.
If its not reaching enough of the target market in the UK then you have to question is it viable.
And as others have said, if its not renewed it may not be replaced with an either.
The provincial games and QF that Sky had will go to RTE and other games will be dropped altogether.
RTE didn't bid for the second lot of games that Sky got. They were happy with their lot.
Personally I think the structure of the TV deal will be revised for 2017 with an overall reduction in the amount of games but not by a huge percentage.
RTE will lose games unless they bid for the two packages and they won't get away with spending the same again. There will an increase in TV revenue for the GAA out of the next TV deal. Possibly up to twenty percent and for less games.
The GAA essentially had to go with Sky to maintain competition in the TV market otherwise they would have lost money compared to the previous deals. With TV3 almost on its knees at the time the GAA couldn't risk doing a three year deal with them. TG4 didn't have the money and RTE didn't bid for these games either.
Now that TV3 have a new owner they are serious about taking on RTE for sports rights and if Sky choose to remain in the market you could see a three way bidding war or even a five way bidding war depending on what UTV Ireland and Eir want to do.
Personally I have no problem with subscription TV. If I go to Croke Park I don't get to watch the match for free. As someone else said people just want everything for nothing.0 -
All GAA Coverage should be FTA and Saturday night league games should be taken away from Setanta also. I have no problem with broadcasters showing these and Sky and Setanta can show them away which is especially great for expats in the UK but they should not have exclusivity in Ireland, let Sky and Setanta show all the GAA they want which is great but the exact same match should be carried by RTE or TG4 terrestrially and FTA so you don't have to pay a subscription to see it here.
You do realise how things work in the real world? Supposing Sky or Setanta show a match, it costs them money to broadcast it. Now why would they give it to RTE/TG4 for free? Surely they're entitled to recoup their costs?
The reason these games aren't on RTE/TG4 in the first place is because they can't afford to broadcast them. Not because Sky/Setanta are the big bad wolf.0 -
All GAA Coverage should be FTA and Saturday night league games should be taken away from Setanta also. I have no problem with broadcasters showing these and Sky and Setanta can show them away which is especially great for expats in the UK but they should not have exclusivity in Ireland, let Sky and Setanta show all the GAA they want which is great but the exact same match should be carried by RTE or TG4 terrestrially and FTA so you don't have to pay a subscription to see it here.
I agree. The amateur ethos of the GAA is slipping away and a halt needs to be put to this slide in the most dramatic fashion! Take the GAA out of the hands of "suits", and give it back to the ordinary people of Ireland!.The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.
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All GAA Coverage should be FTA and Saturday night league games should be taken away from Setanta also. I have no problem with broadcasters showing these and Sky and Setanta can show them away which is especially great for expats in the UK but they should not have exclusivity in Ireland, let Sky and Setanta show all the GAA they want which is great but the exact same match should be carried by RTE or TG4 terrestrially and FTA so you don't have to pay a subscription to see it here.
So basically you want to potentially further reduce the TV coverage for the GAA. Thats a great way to promote the games.
RTE ad TG4 weren't exactly beating the door down to show any league matches on Saturday nights and people are continually whinging about TG4 broadcasting in Irish.0 -
This isn't only about live games. More games, or more complete sections of games could be shown during the week. One thing Setanta did do was repeat the weekend games later in the week. With Saorview RTÉ has plenty of capacity with RTÉ+1, RTÉ jr etc and some of this could be use for more coverage, even if not live.
GAAGO is good, but they show no club games at this time of year, although the coverage is available from TG4. SO TG4 is restricted and have geoblocked their service but GAAGO doesn't even allow you pay for it. There should be deals for members to watch these less popular games at a reasonable charge.0 -
Nichard Dixon wrote:GAAGO is good, but they show no club games at this time of year, although the coverage is available from TG4. SO TG4 is restricted and have geoblocked their service but GAAGO doesn't even allow you pay for it. There should be deals for members to watch these less popular games at a reasonable charge.
I watched GAA games and a rugby game in Canada and London on the TG4 website without any GeoRestrictions. Not saying that all games are open to watch but some clearly are.0 -
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I agree with a lot of this in principle. Time and tide waits for no man and all that. But as to the highlighted bits, you have to look at the specifics of the deal & not just say that all progress is good, full stop.
1. Where is the new revenue? The old broadcasting deal before Sky came on board, brought in pretty much the same amount of revenue, as the new one with Sky. The GAA release their accounts every year. The total monies paid for broadcasting rights overall, is pretty much the same, as it was pre Sky.
So unless there is a substantial increase in revenue, I think questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping on Sky as a broadcast partner, especially when it is so unpopular amongst the grass roots of the organisation. I roll my eyes as much as the next person, at the "but what about the aul lad up the side of a mountain?" brigade. But they are still the grass roots of the organisation. They are its life blood & they deserve to have a voice at the table imo.
I would certainly agree that all progress isn't just good by default and if the Sky deal doesn't work out for either party then it won't be renewed and rightfully so.
As far as I know the Sky deal isn't bringing in extra revenue because they're paying more or less the same as TV3. I would see Sky on board simply as opportunity for growth because they can get our games out to a larger audience, so basically for me it's a punt and there's no harm in trying.2. What are Sky doing to promote gaelic games, either here or the UK? Not much that I can see. Their viewing numbers are dropping yearly. After just a couple of years, I wouldn't expect people all across the UK, to be flocking in droves to participate in gaelic games, or to watch them. But considering Sky's very deep pockets & marketing ability, I would be expecting some sort of progress on that score. To date there is very little. So if marketing and promoting GAA games is a criteria, again, questions have to be asked about the merits of keeping Sky on.
Viewing numbers dropping yearly? To be fair they've only been showing Gaa matches for 2 years, it's hard to draw definitive conclusions after such a short period of time. I don't watch a huge amount of tv myself but when I have been watching Skysports during the championship, they were at least talking about the games and promoting them with ads, now maybe not to a huge degree but from what I remember they were at least advertising the games.0 -
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I agree. The amateur ethos of the GAA is slipping away and a halt needs to be put to this slide in the most dramatic fashion! Take the GAA out of the hands of "suits", and give it back to the ordinary people of Ireland!.
What are you spouting about?
The ordinary people of Ireland?
Next we'll be back at the bloody crossroads with the comely maidens.
I see absolutely not a shred of evidence of the amateur ethos " slipping".
If you do, I'm sure you'd prefer intercounty players to not train as much, be less prepared and play less games... You know like the old days. When high fielding was king and the man up the mountain could go for a jar and drove home afterwards.
The people who go to games will still go to games and those who don't won't. The only people who are really missing out are those who barstool on rte and tbh I couldn't give a f*** about them. Same people that come out of the woodwork in late August and ask for directions on summerhill to Croker.Nichard Dixon wrote: »This isn't only about live games. More games, or more complete sections of games could be shown during the week. One thing Setanta did do was repeat the weekend games later in the week. With Saorview RTÉ has plenty of capacity with RTÉ+1, RTÉ jr etc and some of this could be use for more coverage, even if not live.
GAAGO is good, but they show no club games at this time of year, although the coverage is available from TG4. SO TG4 is restricted and have geoblocked their service but GAAGO doesn't even allow you pay for it. There should be deals for members to watch these less popular games at a reasonable charge.
So you want some sort of subscription model? Certainly a novel approach.0 -
BonnieSituation wrote: »What are you spouting about?
The ordinary people of Ireland?
Next we'll be back at the bloody crossroads with the comedy maidens.
I see absolutely not a shred of evidence of the amateur ethos " slipping".
If you do, I'm sure you'd prefer intercounty players to not train as much, be less prepared and play less games... You know like the old days. When high fielding was king and the man up the mountain could go for a jar and drove home afterwards.
The people who go to games will still go to games and those who don't won't. The only people who are really missing out are those who barstool on rte and tbh I couldn't give a f*** about them. Same people that come out of the woodwork in late August and ask for directions on summerhill to Croker.
So you want some sort of subscription model? Certainly a novel approach.
You nearly have it right, it is "comely maidens"The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.
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At the end of the day it all boils down to money.
If sky are offering more money than the terrestrial channels here then they will continue to show games.
Sky's motives were purely to increase subs here.
It was a nonsense argument that sky would be catering to the diaspora or any of the other ****e talk that went on when they started showing games. If that was the reason then surely tell RTE/TV3 not to geo block their live streams. It was all about the money.
The other argument that it would increase interest abroad was nonsense as well. They are our national games but we are never going to get to a stage where it's matching soccer/cricket/rugby and that's alright, it just makes it more special.
There was a bit of curiosity on twitter in hurling from British viewers who had never seen the game before but their reaction to football was lukewarm at best.0 -
You nearly have it right, it is "comely maidens"
Wow. That's your response? A correction of a very obvious autocorrect on my phone. Impressive. I'm sure you felt great after "showing" me.
But I still don't understand the issue you have with the Sky deal is. Everything you said basically boils down to "I want to watch more games for free".
You started this thread. I would like to think you had something a bit more informed and relevant and in fact new (outside of some CB wanting it changed) that could be discussed as opposed to the same drivel that has been spouted on and on in various threads on this forum since it was announced in 2014.topmanamillion wrote: »At the end of the day it all boils down to money.
If sky are offering more money than the terrestrial channels here then they will continue to show games.
Sky's motives were purely to increase subs here.
If Sky are WILLING to pay more than terrestrial broadcasters then they'll win the rights to show games.It was a nonsense argument that sky would be catering to the diaspora or any of the other ****e talk that went on when they started showing games. If that was the reason then surely tell RTE/TV3 not to geo block their live streams. It was all about the money.
It has catered for the diaspora. That it wasn't the primary motive diesn't matter.
GAAGo is there for those who wish to view GAA abroad as it stands.
RTÉ and TV3 are geoblocked for licencing reasons. You hardly think they would limit their own potential audience for the craic now would you?
Premier Sports had GAA rights in UK (AFAIA, Open to correction) before th Sky deal.The other argument that it would increase interest abroad was nonsense as well. They are our national games but we are never going to get to a stage where it's matching soccer/cricket/rugby and that's alright, it just makes it more special.
There was a bit of curiosity on twitter in hurling from British viewers who had never seen the game before but their reaction to football was lukewarm at best.
But it did pique interest. Every tweet and every person who tuned in was interested. Every comment from a person in Britain was one more than would have been made before Sky had the deal.0 -
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Interesting article on the general TV rights situation.There is another year remaining on the majority of the GAA’s media rights packages but the countdown to the next set of agreements, shaping up to be the most lucrative yet, has already begun.
The votes in recent weeks by Clare, Dublin and Kerry to back motions calling for all championship games to be made free-to-air indicates unrest about pay-per-view games is not going away. In fact, it’s intensifying. All three are likely to be ruled out of order for Congress as they don’t require a rule change but there’s only so much the GAA hierarchy can ignore before they realise they must address the fact that many of their members have been discommoded.
Two seasons in, Sky Sports are known to be satisfied with their slice of the cake. With more Saturday championship matches than ever before next summer, their portion is likely to be richer but are the GAA as certain as they were about the promotional virtues of the deal when the viewing figures in the UK have been so low?
Sky’s rivals will come to the negotiations table wiser and wealthier than before. RTÉ will have more change in their pocket having lost the Six Nations to TV3 from 2018 and may hope to silence their critics who highlight the fact that they show no live GAA from October to April. TG4, as consistently brilliant as they have been for the GAA, will come under unprecedented pressure to retain their rights to the league.
TV3 are believed to be interested in both championship and league packages having come away empty-handed last year even if TV3 head of sport Niall Cogley’s “GAA’s preference for a pay television strategy” remark last year was viewed dimly in Croke Park. On the other hand, in those same corridors RTÉ are still not flavour of the month following Prime Time’s treatment of the Sky Sports deal.
Setanta Sports’ long-standing Saturday evening league agreement is interesting from the point of view that they have been taken over by Eir, associate sponsors of the All-Ireland senior football championship. That synergy is sure to make them more formidable but like Sky Sports they may have to settle with what they have if the rate of pay-per-view disaffection among the grassroots is to be believed.
Eir’s takeover represents a further shift in their business model from mobile telecommunications to TV. Live TV too. Apart from soaps, the only true communal TV experience now is live sport and news. They seem to be the only entities for which viewers nowadays are prepared to sit through ad breaks. Little else engages people in a synchronised fashion as sport. Consequently, little else provides as potentially captivating a market as sport.
Increment by increment, the GAA appear to be realising the true worth of their product. Before the last round of media rights, they let it be known they had undervalued it in the past so much so that on one occasion one deal was sold onto a third party. It seemed they had learned their lesson but again they are announcing they still haven’t got it quite right just yet.
“The small fish that we are, when you look at the recent deal made for Premier League rights, the average per game for the next contract is £11 million,” said GAA director general Páraic Duffy at Congress back in February.
“That is roughly equivalent to what we are bringing in, in terms of TV rights. I actually believe we are probably not getting full value for our TV rights and that is something we have to work on.”
The amount of competition angling for 2017-2020 contracts means there should be problem there. However, it may just be that they will have to pay more for less. Also in Cavan earlier this year, Duffy suggested there will be fewer matches shown live on TV than the 100 that are shown presently. “Do we actually want to show so many games on TV as we do?” he asked delegates. “Our championship attendances now, and we have done well over the past three years, are less than they were 10 years ago, significantly less. You have to ask the question: is the fact we broadcast so many live games each year impacting on our attendances. And what about the impact it has on our club games?”
Offering an update on the GAA’s policy earlier this month, GAA president Aogán Ó Fearghail said the balance in the number of live matches at the moment is “fairly right”. However, on the basis of the discord in counties there isn’t as much equilibrium between the GAA people get for their licence fee and the GAA they have to shell out to watch. If bringing Sky Sports into the stable was an indirect means of increasing attendances by compelling those without subscriptions to go to games at the same time promoting the games in the UK and earning a few million euro, it hasn’t really worked.
More money for less games is shaping up to be the theme of the next round of media rights but can the GAA run the risk of being seen to short-change their members a second time in three years
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-countdown-to-the-gaas-next-tv-rights-deal-has-already-started-372777.html0 -
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Somebody really needs to sit these journalists down and explain what pay per view means.0 -
Do any of these people in the GAA consider that the reason attendances are less than 10 years ago is because both championships are nowhere near as competitive as they were 10 years ago.It certainly has a much bigger part to play than matches being on TV.
The more games on TV the better as far as I'm concerned.0 -
Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »The more games on TV the better as far as I'm concerned.
I say so too, let them all be free to air!The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.
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